Fresh manure

I have decided I really need manure for my veggie garden. There are stables near by where I can get all I need. Question. Should I spread it over my garden now and let it sit over the winter, or do that and put clear plastic over it, or store it in black plastic bags and let it sit in them over the winter?

dun1kirk, I'm fairly new at this gardening business, but this is what I have done...I apply fresh horse manure in the fall and disk it in immediately for several reasons: (1) Cuts down on horse flies, (2) keeps the neighbors happy, and (3) it is much easier to work with in the spring.

I had a soils analysis performed by a certified soils lab after tilling in the manure and the results came back too high on nutrients, but by spring planting time conditions were perfect.

I also have a covered compost bin (4'w x 8'l x 4'h) for extra manure which I turn occassionally with a pitch fork and hose it down each time I turn it. This tends to break up the biscuits and makes it easy use as compost in the spring.

I had some left over from the compost bin this year which I stored in plastic bags inside 35 gallon plastic barrels. However, I believe by the time I use it next spring there will be little nutrient value left. The ammonia nitrogen in the horse manure tends to volatilizes over time, especially if you overwork the composting or tilling process, so I keep these activities at a minimum. It is still a good as a soil conditioner. The organic nitrogen left has some fertilizer value as it is release slowly over time and won't burn the plants.

Since I live in a glacial valley where the 'soil' is basically clay and rock, I have had to use a lot of horse manure to get a viable soil. Other people in the area which have tried gardening with horse manure told me their crops burned or turned yellow. Fortunately this method has worked well for me.

Hope this helps.

I found out the hard way to be CAREFUL with fresh manure. I lost a whole vegetable garden that way, and had to move it to another location.

Years ago a farmer friend here said I could have all the cow manure I wanted for free. I borrowed a dump truck from another friend and put two big loads on my garden in the fall, tilled it in, and left it over the winter.

I got such a dose of Johnson grass from the seeds in that manure, I couldn't control it. I finally gave up and moved my garden to another location. The old garden is now an area of my "lawn" that I mow along with the rest of our yard - but when the rest of my grass is 3" high and needs mowing, that area is 2-foot high Johnson grass.

Don't spread un-composted manure. It will be full of the seeds of whatever those horses have been eating.

Me too !! I trucked in a ton of fresh horse manure from a stable. I tilled it in around October. The next summer my whole garden was full of buttercups, henbit, chickweed. It took me a minute to realize where the weeds came from. The horses grazing in the fields. I had the worst time getting rid of it. It still crops up once in a while in the flower beds. I haven't used any since, but if I do, it will go directly into the compost bin. So be careful when someone offers fresh manure.

So, black bags to cook in over the winter, clear bags to cook over the winter? Please advise!
Thanks.

Black bags. Clear bags may allow some weed sprouts to grow. Use the heavy duty black bags, and double them in you can.

Ive read that ducks will pick out the weed seeds if it is spread out on the ground so they can get it. I don't know if Johnson grass seeds are big enough for ducks to see!

One other point towards composting the manure over time instead of just adding it - as a horse owner, I can tell you that I de-worm my horses once every two months, which means that if the manure is less than about 90 days old, it could possibly kill your worms, too. I also use a feed-through larvacide, which disrupts the life cycle of most flies.

But all of these things degrade over time, especially with changes in heat, light, etc. to help denature any of the medications given to any of the horses in your neighborhood barn.

My horses don't let plants around here get big enough to go to seed, I'm afraid, but I do feed them whole oats in order to plant it throughout my pasture.... 8* )

It surprised me that along with the Johnson grass in that cow manure, I also got a whole bunch of Russian Thistles. You know - the pretty purple pasture flower with stickers that really hurt.

I don't know how cows could eat those things, but they apparently do.

And if you aren't very careful you will have those (pretty purple flowers) forever. I have been fighting them for years. The goldfinches and other finches love the seeds and spread them everywhere!!!!!!!!!

Donna

Yep, we feed wild birds in the cold season - but I don't buy any birdseed with THISTLE in the mix. I know the smaller birds love it, but I sure don't need any of those seeds spread around.

On our six acres, anytime I see a thistle growing I whack it before it gets a chance to bloom. After years of that, I've pretty well got it eradicated.

Every spring, we have cornstalks sprouting 30 feet up in our oak and hickory trees because of the bluejays stashing seeds, but that's a different story. lol.

Do the stall shavings often mixed with horse manure have a negative effect on your compost?

Ah - my horses are pasture pets, no stall shavings here. In the long run it would be a good thing, but until they break down you'd need to add plenty of nitrogen/ greens.....but it would be great for the soil texture.

I am SO GLAD I just ran into this thread!!! A local stable has piles of FREE manure- of course it's mixed in w/ shavings and hay. I visited today, shovel in hand. The horses were grazing in the field, and I'll bet they've been wormed. I saw this post and put all of my "brown gold" in plastic bags (7 big drum liners, and moistened w/ pond water) and tied them up off to the side of my property. HOPEFULLY, by spring, the weed seed will be dead and I can spread it then!!!

Ozark, the thistle nyjer, seed that I buy for my birds has been treated so that it won't sprout and I have never seen any growing near where I feed birds. The thistles that I have in back garden have come from neighbors plants. I haven't had any horse manure for past several years, when I did have any I let it sit for a year or so before using in the garden, even then had some weed seeds sprout. So I mostly use steer manure.

Donna

Jax, you're going to have better luck with the seeds if your manure is in a heated pile - that's often what gets rid of them or makes them sprout in the pile instead of in your garden. If you're mixing the manure with some brown items (leaves, shredded paper, etc.) and turned, your gold will a) go farther and b) be much better broken down. As you see with Donna above, those seeds are pretty hardy.

My only problem with steer manure is (once again) when it's used fresh and not composted - it has a high concentration of salts and can burn vulnerable roots.

This is why I keep 3 little rabbits. Great manure, weed free, and it's just right for a small compost pile. Suggestion...Go through the yellow pages. Sometimes, rabbit breeders will give you a bag or two for free. Or if not, they will sell it very cheaply. Free is not so free when it's full of weed seed, is it? My rabbits are fed a high protein rabbit food, and some fresh garden greens each day. Excellent manure.

And they are such little philosophers. For being just about everybody's "lunch" they have such a great attitude.

Dukirk,

Do you have a source for fall leaves? I mix my fresh manure with fall leaves and sort of layer it. I only layer because it's easier than mixing it because the leaves don't come down all at once.

There is a little bit of smell, and I live in a neighborhood and have neightbors close by, but when I mix it with the leaves, I just be sure to sort of cover it all with more leaves and that seems to stop the smell.

Suzy

Well, what horses might not have in rabbit quality, they certainly make up for in quantity! It's amazing, the output of those creatures....

As some of you have experienced, I once accepted several free truckloads of horse manure only to have it start a battle royal with mugwort, pokeweed, and nightshade!!! These seeds all may have been dropped off by birds, but I didn't have them until the manure arrived. That was 10 years ago, and I think I've defeated the pokeweed (I shudder when I see it growing on the roadsides!), but the mugwort and nightshade are permanent residents.

I put 1 bag of my "new" manure into my tumbler composter (which I use during the winter b/c it's near the back door), one bag into my regular compost heap, and I've left the others bagged. The bags are clear and situated in the sun; I'm hoping the solarization takes care of the heat. The shavings, I assume, will help the manure break down.

Arias, rabbit manure!!!! Alas, I would need a heck of a lot of bunnies for manure as I have over 2 acres of land, 90% of which is planted out somehow (grass, flowers, trees...) I guess I could start w/ 2 bunnies... LOL!

Jax, you have my sympathy. I know how it is with horse manure. And I envy you 2 acres of land. I have a big yard, and mostly it's raised beds. My three "girls" have been spayed. They make better pets, and are docile. The rabbits also live much longer. The girls were a gift from a neighbor. She got them for her kids, and you know how it is. So I ended up with three rabbits. I didn't accept them for the manure, I'm just a sucker for little creatures. But I must admit they have earned their keep.

I do hope your 'bounty" breaks down with no weed seed in it. I'd put the bags in the hottest spot I could find. Good luck.

Jax4ever: A rabbit is a lot more productive than you might expect for being so much smaller than a horse, especially since they do use a whole lot of hay. Also some rabbits are quite large. I had Flemish Giants for a while. Just remember not to put males together. They prefer to be solitary or with females. And they get grumpy if they have too many children. And the cages have to be very strong and dog proof.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/giantrabbit.asp

This message was edited Oct 4, 2007 7:46 AM

I too have more than 2 acres of garden that is all enclosed with redwood fence to keep the marauding deer out, and now I have to keep the drive thru gate closed to keep neighbors bird killing dogs out. A real problem and a real bother to open and shut the gate every time i use it.

Arias You have about convinced me i should have two or three rabbits. Maybe next spring. My folks used to raise rabbits, which we also butchered.

Donna

I LOVE bunnies!!! Right now, our local agricultural fair is going on, and they have a HUGE barn dedicated to bunnies, most of which are for sale. Those Flemish Giants are to die for! But, would they get along with Jax?:

Aw, what a pretty guy! Siamese? He's gorgeous!

Yes he is, and he thinks Jax should have his own rabbits. Is Mr Gorgeous a Mesian? He looks like one.

pagancat: check out the link in my post above. What do you think about the productivity of those rabbits compared to your horses?

LOL!! I remember that first picture coming around in e-mail. What a great guy!

I'll admit, we'd have a hard time keeping up, but.... Mac thinks he's up for it!

Sounds like that rabbit probably eats as much as your horse.

Pound for pound... mmmm - I wish he would eat as much as a the fuzzy guy. I add a cup of vegetable oil to his feed everyday, just to keep his weight up. How many calories are in that?

LOL - never occured to me that I'm using greasy manure. Nice.

Edited to add : To give you a sense of scale - I'm 5'3" and my head comes about level with his hind end. He weighs +/- 1550 lbs.

This message was edited Oct 5, 2007 11:53 AM

Grease is the word that you heard. ha ha, couldn't pass that up..

that bunny weighs 20 some pounds but he is as big as half a man--that guy that's holding him. I had a female Flemish Giant. As I remember, there was quite a lot of shoveling to clean up all the poop. I only kept one of her babies, and she turned out to be even bigger than her mom.

But he's not fat, he's fluffy!

Jax is a blue bi-color ragdoll- he's my baby and constant companion. I know I've posted his pic a lot, but gardening isn't gardening unless I'm tripping over Jax! (He likes to re-dig my planting holes, too- just to make sure they're done right!)

Pagan- Mac is adorable!!! Talk about a pussycat- I adore horses and hope someday, to have a farm where Jax can rule the barn. His pedigree may be a palace, but cats love horses. I used to publish the newsletter for the Yankee Draft Horse Association. I got to know a lot of big, friendly horses. When you're that size, there's nothing to prove- their temperament is so sweet! Lots of free fertilizer, too!

LOTS.

Mac is a PMU rescue (and he's been posted all over the forums too, I'm afraid - I'm a photo-opportunist) as is his best bud, Lucas. They're both Shire crosses - Mac is 3/4 with Paint and Lucas is 50/50. They both came on the same truck and I had only planned on Mac, but....

This is just after he became a yearling. He's gonna be another biiiigggg boy. As you can tell by that little smile, he also loves to be scratched.

Okay, I'll stop hi-jacking now, I promise!!!

Ah PC, looks like life in TN is good for you. Nice pic of you and Mac - healthy, happy and having a laugh! Excellent.

I ADORE Shires!!! They are big teddy bears! Does Mac have "feathers"? I love those furry feet!!!
What's PMU?
If I had enough land, I would be rescuing horses left and right! I think I'd be happy just to feed and pet them every day.

Hey Mary - yeah, Life is Good... that's actually the baby, Lucas. He's a clown.

Yeah, the Shires are quite sweet natured, one of the main reasons I got them. That, and I likes 'em big.

PMU- it's a bit of a controversial item, so I'll give you the Wikipedia link, if you'd like to see what it's about. Draft horses figure pretty prominently in the controversy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premarin

Mac does have feathers, especially with his winter coat - you should see him in his big, flashy trot; all high legs and feathers, mane and tail just streaming.... *sigh*. He's an awfully pretty guy. Not that I'm biased, or anything...lol.

Here's where he came from, if you're interested in taking a peek - Gabi has saved an awful lot of these big guys from the slaughter houses. http://www.lazyhorserescue.org

Sometimes he seems this big....

Pagan - his eyes are glazed over - how sweet! Must have really enjoyed the good scratching.
No horses here on my property, but I sure have a lot of respect for them.
Incredible animals!