I've been pruning again

I bought two new JMs this spring and the recent heat seems to have put them into their summer period of no growth, so I pulled them out of their temporary homes and got the pruners out. They were both a bit "unkempt" looking and needed some small dead twigs removed and crossing branches sorted out. My approach to them both was very different. The two trees are Tsuma Gaki and Oregon Sunset.

Tsuma Gaki is a nice-sized tree and will be encouraged to spread and provide shade for one of my hosta beds. Its profile was rather flat and wide, so after cleaning up the lower trunk some and the lower portions of the branches so that the structure was visible, I staked the overlapping upper branches out so that they help widen the "flat side" and no longer overlap one another. At least, that is the hope if the staking, and in once case weighting of a branch so that it dips a bit more, work as the tree ages. This one will be planted in the hosta bed this fall and seems to be liking the spot. It's in the shade of two dogwood trees, one on our property that has a rather bad problem with borers, and one on the neighbors that so far does not. Which reminds me that I need to treat the neighbor's trees with the bayers' systemic insecticide as hers don't yet have visible signs of a bad infestation. My neighbor is an elderly lady and not all "with it" but her daughter says I can treat them.

Anyway, here are some before and after shots.

First the "flat" view "before"

Now the "before" of the wider side.

Closer view of the inner/upper branches which badly intertwined. I spent a lot of time looking at this before deciding to try staking these out from the leader.

This cultivar seems to like to throw out narrow crotches on its branches, so where I could, I eliminated one of the two branches as these will be the major branches in a few years and I don't want a tree with weak limbs.

On these upper branches, I mostly left them alone as I could not decide which to remove and just pulled them away from the center with the stakes and hopefully they will widen as a result.

I really did NOT scalp it! With some of the lower branches removed and a few inner branches trimmed out, you can see through it and the top is just spread out more.

Oregon Sunset is a tree I have wanted for the last year since seeing its weeping form last spring at my local nursery. They did not have a large inventory this year, but this one had a shape that would lend itself to a large "bonsai" effect. It got a bit more shaping than Tsuma Gaki did but it was already leaning in the direction I pruned it.

I would like your feedback on it based on pics I'll post.

Here is one "before" shot.

Here is the back...looks a bit like it's waving at you doesn't it?

It also has a rather flat profile. You can see we have a project going in the background to give me an area for pots to sit next to the house and wrap that bed around to meet it.

The result. No more waving limb competing with the main trunk for attention, and the little twigs along the base of the branches removed and a bit less shrubby this year.

Next year, I hope the branches will widen and weep to fill in the space a bit more visually.

This one likes to send a bunch of twigs out at the joints, so it must have a bit of a "broom" background to it. Over time, the joints should be rather knobby and interesting.

I'm also going to put it into the pot it is currently sitting in, though I may exchange it for the next size up as I thought it was larger than it is. I noticed a lot of roots at the soil surface, so it needs at least a little bit more soil on the top.

Now for the question. I'm wondering if staking the tree at a different angle would make it look better.

First, pulled a bit to center for a balanced appearance.

It's eventual height is supposed to be around 10 feet.

Here is an angle to one side.

This one was supposed to be leaning to the other side, but now that I look at it, it seems more like the 'centered' picture, lol. I could weight the trunk to pull it at a more severe angle but you get the idea, hopefully.

Any thoughts?

OK, based on your posts and pics, I am going outside to look at my baby JM's and start shaping them. Great work! I'll let you know how I do!

OK largosmom. Here is a pic of my baby Emperor 1. It has no central leader. Should I create one from the existing two branches by staking it upright, or should I leave it alone. The ultimate height should be 20-25 ' (maybe not in my lifetime!) so I am not certain how it will look in the future with no central leader. What do YOU think?

I would take the longer branch to the left and tie it to that stake or better yet a longer dowell or stake ... E1 is an upright tree not a bush .. You got more guts than I buying such a small tree that one is TINY.hope you got it REALLY cheap!!..and you are right even though E1's are pretty fast growing compared to other JM's it will be a bushel of years til it gets of any size...I have grafts I've done this past winter-spring bigger than that baby...but on the bright side it does look healthy . David

All of my JMs are very small, it's all I can afford! Anyway, I will take your advice and creat a central leader. Thanks!

Thank you, I was wondering if everyone thought I scalped the last one, lol!

I agree, on your tree, stake the longer branch as upright as possible. You will be surprised at how much you can straighten it. I like the new velcro ties as the soft side won't rub the bark. In a couple of years, you can take off the lower branch but it needs the leaves for energy right now.

Laura

You sure had a good time Laura. I wasn't sure what you wanted on the last one but I like it the way you had it in the last photo. The shape of the Tsuma Gaki is very nice if you like an open tree. Looks as if you've got it round and it will fill in anyway. It's going to be lovely.

Ah, thanks! I'll have to see if I can arrange a back drop for photos once I get my new planting bench in the next couple of weeks. A bit of black ground cover, will do the trick, I think.

Laura

You gave your Tsuma Gaki a complete makeover! It looks lovely. Oregon Sunset waving - lol. Well put. I think you did a very good job, but this opinion comes from a newbie. ;)

You're brave to shape your trees. I have a potted JM that could use a bit of shape, but I'm reluctant. First of all, I don't know what I'm doing and second, we named it Magician and I can't bear to cut any of its wavy fingers. :P It was cheap and cute and I brought it home like a lost pet. I'm a JM addict already even though I only have two trees!

Two is all it takes, lol! What did you get?

It took three for me and I was hooked, though it was a couple of years before I bought more. Thanks for the nice words. I just love Tsuma Gaki, can't wait to see it next spring. It seems to be shaping nicely already.

Oregon Sunset should get some nice droopy shape to it next year when it branches out.

Laura

Two is all it takes, lol!

It took three for me and I was hooked, though it was a couple of years before I bought more. Thanks for the nice words. I just love Tsuma Gaki, can't wait to see it next spring. It seems to be shaping nicely already.

Oregon Sunset should get some nice droopy shape to it next year when it branches out.

Laura

Too true! Too true! *grin* I cheated, though. The house already came with a maple. Then I bought a Kagiri Nishiki. I was happy to put a couple pictures of it in the plantfiles as there were none, but neither of the photos was a complete picture of the tree. I wonder if I'm embarrassed. :P The tree's arms are -everywhere-. Do you see what I'm up against? :>

Actually I don't think it's all that bad, does it have two main trunks? I can't tell if that is a stake or a second trunk. My Kagini Nishiki always looks a bit whacky too. Mine has more growth on one side than another. I am hoping it will even out some in the next year or two. Mine got much taller, much younger, than I anticipated as it was *supposed* to be a smaller tree. Of the three I have now that are about 8-9 years old, it is the tallest at about 10 feet. My coral bark is maybe 7-8 feet tall now and I thought that one would be the tallest! I'll hvae to watch the variegated one because it is closest to my house.

Laura

Moogle I think your tree looks fine although I think I feel a bit drunk after trying to decipher your photoshopped images ;>) In fact you made my day!!! I cant stop laughing at my tippyness from looking at it...I just think my brain can't grasp all those collaged images...I am definitly showing my age !!!! anyway nice tree and I see NOTHING wrong with it... David

Laura: It was severely lopsided - more growth on one side as you said about yours. In fact, it was trying to be a willow ;) It's interesting that yours did the same. My husband added the stake to straighten it. The staked branch was equally as thick as the one that used to be the main; so yes, now it has two mains. :> I don't know how old it is, but it does look like it's trying to grow as fast as it can. It's lanky, and I'm hoping it will fill out so the shape will make more sense. Right now, it has a lot of clustered leaves and small branches.

Thank you for the info. Yours is 10ft already! Goodness.

David: lol, my husband just saw my pic of pics and he's making fun of me :P Sorry for the craziness :>

largosmom writes:
July 8, 2007
12:04 PM

Post #3710923

>> I bought two new JMs this spring and the recent heat seems to have put them into their summer period of no growth...


I am new to this thread and only have one japanese maple. I live near Chapel Hill, NC and we just had a lot of landscaping done - the japanese maple is a key feature (the most expensive element of the garden) and lives at the intersection of several paths, so I have paid attention to it and have been worrying about it ----it hasn't had any new growth.

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who takes the time to post because while you folks NOT new to DG are sharing information with 'old friends' that you believe is 'not new information' you are helping to educate so many newcomers to gardening and DG. Point: (above) :>> I bought two new JMs this spring and the recent heat seems to have put them into their summer period of no growth

That being said: ...I have a question. I don't have a photo but I will try to get one to post. This japanese maple (butterfly) ....I personally picked it out at the nursery. When I picked it out it had no leaves and its bones looked fine to me. The problem is now that the leaves are in, there is this huge FAT limb going right up the center and it is naked ---except for the very top..then there are a few thin branches spouting leaves.. (like the Gerber Baby!) All I can see is that limb - it glows white right up the middle. Is there a way to develop side limbs from this limb via pruning/technique? If I cut this limb out...there will be a big open "V" of space with tree limbs fanning sideways on each side of open space --I don't know if it will weaken the tree either..it seems like a integral part. It is driving me nuts..nuts... Any thoughts?

We need a photo to help you. Any chance of that? I assume that the fat white limb is in addition to the trunk? Definitely photos are in order.

Hello
I have a few photos. I will upload an untouched one and then one where I colored the problem limb. I am trying to learn if there is a way to stimulate growth on this limb (trunk??) or how I should take it out or if I should. Thanks

AND another

Last. By the way,,except for the growth at the very tip .... no leaves, no small limbs... nothing. In the photos there are adjacent limbs with leaves that confuse ---they are not attached to this problem area.

In the first photo - you can see the limb glowing white (and curving towards the top) before you blow it up. all suggestions appreciated.

Wow, that is a problem. I think that I'd wait and see what happens. It looks as if all intermediate growth was taken off of that upright limb. The thing about a butterfly is that it will tend to grow upward and should fill in but there's no need to take the limb out yet I don't think. As David says that's IMHO. I'll be so interested to see what other people say. If you hate the look of it you can take it out now if you want. Depends on how crazy it makes you. I truly believe that the tree will fill in either way.

I would wait..it looks klike there was branches off that main stem that were trimmed off probably cause they died. I'd bet in a couple of years you will never even see that but if you take it off you will be definitely making it a bush for some time to come ... I think I do agree either way it will probably eventually be fine but I think you take more chances topping tree than just letting it fill in... of course I am NOT a trimmer so others may be more of that ilk and more apt to push you to more drastic action... but in all honesty not to be presumptious... it seems you have already made up your mind since it bothers you so much... to me it is not perfect but what in life is... and to me... the second trunk is much more diistracting ...oops maybe I shouldn't have said that ;>). David

WHAT second trunk???

I AM AFRAID to look......


No - no trimmed branches that died...that limb (IS it a limb or is it trunk??) is naked except for the very top..then there is that cluster of almost bare small shoots with leaves.

Please look at the first photo....blow it up ...do you see that cluster of bare twigs coming off the end of that limb? Do you think I can take them off..? There are few leaves up at the ends. The main question is about the habits of the JM... this type:

Is there a way to cut into the side of that bare trunk/limb so that I can get some sprouts forming out of it that may eventually help to fill it in?

I keep thinking that when you cut back a tree ... new growth comes from the cut end... if I cut into the sides of this "THING" will the cuts begin to sprout? If I take that limb out entirelly, I will have a big bare spot with two full sides (like a lung minus the trachea). I just have to make a decision because I cannot keep darting past that tree without looking at it.. It is in such a focal spot. I should have purchased when it had leafed out. I probably left the nursery after purchase and made somebody happy....they probably had a bet..... Maybe I can bead the thing or put some kind of yard art in it.. .....WHAT second trunk??

Ok ...sorry it "looks" like a second trunk it is a VERY low main branch ... it is green all the way to the base the "main" trunk looks whiteish. What I said about the part you put white on to mark was that it likely had branches at one point but they died and were trimed before you got it ...it looks like there are nodes showing up the tree in that area. I really hadn't noticed the leaves being that sparce on the subject top part above the the bare area...it is hard to see in the photo. If you are only talking bout trimming those twigs I wouldn't you will just have a bare leader branch and it may or may not branch back...and as said if you take that whole main branch off you will bush it...I think you should wait and see what the top of the main branch developes into or how the rest of the tree grows and envelopes that area below .But others that are more trim worthy may have differnt ideas ..David

"Trim worthy" LOL David.

Can you photo the other sides of the tree. It's hard to say that you should make such a major cut from only one side of the tree. Should have said that earlier.

Your butterfly may be in more trouble than we think though. Mine is 25 years old and the trunk isn't that big and all of the trunk and branches are green. Now I don't know what to say.... Are the leaves at the very top of the white branch variegated? Butterfly is notorious for reverting.

This message was edited Aug 11, 2007 4:12 PM

This message was edited Aug 11, 2007 4:05 PM

Serves me right for not doing my homework. Your tree is beautiful by the way.

I looked at the very top and the leaves are all the right size but I don't see any variegation. Almost all the wood on the tree is that grey/white, except for that one part of the trunk crotch which is green and a few splotches here and there. I did look again and there are no obvious nodes where it looks like things were trimmed. So about this reverting back..what will happen besides it not looking as good colorwise? Will it grow out of the shape it is supposed to be?

I will upload a few other "sides" ..just so you can see the 'bones' I saw when I purchased. You would think the landscape guys would have sited it to its advantage in the overall plan... My fault for not staying home from work.. Now, the best sides are viewed from the back where there is no pathway approach. Should I drag the fellow that I worked with (landscaper/nursery) back here? Or, is this just a known risk (the reverting back) and too bad for me? If it is just destined to be an ugly duckling, I will dig it up..put it on the side of the house..(provided it isn't going to turn into a giant) and then find a Japanese Maple that can take the sun and remain somewhat small for this spot (believe it or not, I did do my homework..that is how I ended up with the butterfly). Thanks so much for staying with this thread and answering my questions.