Taming the wild garden

We have started work on what has politely been called the wild garden, which I have now got my eye on for becoming the woodland garden. The area is triangular (with the point lopped off, and measures roughly 22 metres across (this is pacing, not tape measureing) and about 30 metres from bottom to top. It is wider at the top end, and has a 12 degree slope top to bottom, and about 8 degrees side to side. As you can see, it is bounded on the right side by a row of very mature beech trees, the top one is a magnificent copper beech with the blackest leaves you can imagine in summer. In addition there are several other mature trees: two dark leaf prunus, a couple of holly trees, two oaks (Caspar and Pollux - its best to name your trees), 3 Cornus and a new Cornus controverso.

The left side gets sun/dappled sun from early morning to about noon/1PM, the right side has dappled shade in the winter/deep shade most of the year. The soil is clay, fairly acid, and the ground has meadow grass, and WEEDS (dracus mostly, but also bramble, ground elder, and stinging nettle). Some bulbs. I am currently digging out some of the pernicious weeds by hand, and amending the soil by digging in composted bark.

I have been growing woodland plants for the past two years in anticipation, but with little rhyme or reasoning - just plants that have caught my imagination. Currently in hand I have Disporopsis Pernyi, Gillenia Trifolia (Porteranthus), Jeffersonia Dubya, a few trilliums, some hellebores, and a couple of other things I can't think of.

So - what do you say. Can we do some plant combination brainstorming?

This is a photo of a couple of the trees on the right side. These were once a laid hedge - I am not sure this is done in the US - but over the past 100 or so years, possibly more they have not been maintained as hedges, and revert to growing as trees, but you can still see where they were cut and folded. In East Sussex, we refer to these areas as a shaw. They make a lovely backdrop, and very deep cool shade on hot days. The size of the trees does make it quite dry (although still damp) shade.

And one more, this is a view looking back up towards the house - just to give you a better idea of the size of the area, and the slope (it is so hard to tell from the top, but it is a big area and a step slope, especially with a wheelbarrow!)

I must preface this response with the fact that I really know very little about ornamental gardening and plant combinations as I am just beginning to experiment with it myself. Until more experienced gardeners reply, however, I thought I'd put in my few words. I personally like some of the native forest shrubbery in my region, evergreen and red (deciduous) huckleberry, Indian plum, oregon grape (the low growing one, Mahonia nervosa) and flowering currant. I also looked up shrubs for shade, which are probably good for woodland garden: azalea, camellia, enkianthus, fuchsia, hydrangea, pieris, sarcococcca (amazingly aromatic flowers in January!), dogwoods, viburnum, witch hazel. I have several types of osmanthus which are ok for shade or sun, and the flowers are profuse and aromatic in the Spring. I love hellebores, which you mention above. Just bought some, though I have very little shady spots to put them in and have to do some rearranging to fit them in. Other perennials for shade.... pulmonaria, bleeding heart, wood violet, columbine. Like I said above, I've no idea how to combine these into a beautiful arrangement. my own garden is at this point somewhat of a hodgepodge.

Mauryhill - you are absolutely right to like the wild woodlanders - and although some of them are not indigenious to this country it is what interests me most when I think about the planting here. This isn't to exclude cultivars, it is just where I am starting. To give you an idea of some of the plants here are a couple of links:

Jeffersonian Dubia http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/69933/

Disporopis Pernyi http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/98110/

Gillenia Trifolia http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/20167/

Aquilegia Canadenis http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/109995/

Cornus Canadensis http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/109995/

One of the things that I am stumped by (and perfect for a stumpery) are ferns - I just have no grasp of them at all.

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My experience with ferns is limited to those that have volunteered themselves in various parts of my yard. Several lady ferns (native here) have popped up in the pathways of my vegetable garden in spots where water tends to collect from my irrigation. So these like it wet all year round. They are pretty, and I have not had the heart to tear them up, thinking foolishly that I will create a wooded sort of area and transplant them there. Meanwhile the ferns have become firmly established and I don't know how hard they will be to move if and when the time comes. I also have sword ferns that have established under the steps. It gets pretty dry there in the summer, though is almost always shady.

Thanks Mauryhill - I was wondering about using lady ferns, I do like the size of them and they seem to bulk up nicely. Have you ever tried dividing them?

I have a few that seem to have been planted by the previous owners which have gotten quite large, but are also escaping into the hedgerow near the lane. I was thinking of digging them up and dividing them, taking some for the new area and replacing smaller clumps back into the hedge.

I must admit I like the idea of them growing in the vegetable patch pathways - I do like plants mixed in with the workman like beds. I have self seeded deep red holly hocks that come up regularly in the vegetable beds (although I am not sure our paths are wide enough for me and them!), and I just leave them to grow amongs the peas and beans. I love when the sun is behind them, and the combination with ripe borlotti beans is a real stunner.

So, since we are restarting the tree thread, anyone want to join in with some ideas here? Bump bump.

Looks like plenty of us are watching this thread, but none of us having ideas!!! I think your ideas expressed in the first post (of the random woodland plants you've been growing), along with Maury's, are excellent. And ferns, of course! I am going to try to transfer some ferns back to my "new" woodland area - and Poochella included a few in little micro climate gardens she gave me on Tuesday. Wish I was more imaginative, but alas - I copy other people!! Or just do random plantings and hope for the best.

Hey, copying is good, although I prefer referring to it as 'inspiring'. Or Hommage is good. Now if I could get Poochella to load up her little car, get the oars out and row over...... or maybe she could load up a group of PNW DGer's....we're not far from Hastings, and we haven't had an invasion there since 1066! Perhaps its high time for another one. "Derek! Put the Coffee on!"

One of the ideas I took from the Billion trees thread was Hostajim's root stumps - since I can't float some of them home I have had to settle for collecting some lengths of the downed trees from our woodlands and I am stacking them in the new area hoping they will moss over. I know we have toads down at the bottom, so I am hoping they will like the new log home I am building. If I can get them to colonize they might control the slugs in the area. (Ohhh, or a hedgehog family! That would be perfect - I just haven't seen any in the area. I think I'll continue to keep the badgers out - goodness they can rip up a place!) I put a couple logs up in another shade bed which the birds just love. And in the space of less than 3 months, they have reduced them to shards! They just love it. Making some nice mulch out of it, too.

(I never noticed the view counter before). Well, keep watching, and comments? I'm open for inspiration - which I have get so much of from this group. Or direction. Or other's experience. Cake recipes?

What a DG Roundup that would be - Pacific Northwest DGers to Laurie's in the United Kingdom! Sigh . . . what I wouldn't give to see your glorious gardens in person.

(And I love coffee!!!)

(And I don't cook or bake - DH does all that so I can just play in the gardens - so, alas, no recipes to share either!)

Ah. Good. Another nice thread with a glorious place to imagine gardening! We will do the imagining, and Laurie will do the work! What a beautiful start to this garden already!

There is an autumn crocus that is pure white and is shorter and tidier than the usual ones. I believe it is Colcochium atumnale album. I think it would be a lovely addition to the woodland garden at the edges where it would get a bit more sun. I know it's not a native plant, but I think it is so delicate looking and the bright, clean white blooms really show off when little else is in bloom.


I love the lady ferns. I have many of them because they do grow wild here and the pop up everywhere. I find the color of the fronds in the spring to be just the right shade of spring green. And they are nothing if not delicate looking. The ones I have do not tend to get big and bulky, and unfortunately the fronds do tend to break easily.
The other ferns that I tend to like, other than the usual sword ferns that grow simply everywhere here, are the braken ferns, believe it or not. Most people get annoyed with them as they do run around the garden a bit. But they are easy to break off if they grow somewhere naughty, and I think the form of them is unusual and a bit fun so I let them go a bit. My space is not nearly as large as yours though, so I don't have much trouble controlling them.

Pixy, it's great to see you posting again - we've missed you (were you on your Hawaii vacation?).

I have been in mourning. With the end of my Hawaii vacation, that is. My DH still has not taken time to do a website of our photos but maybe he will do some this weekend. I did have a wonderful time and many wonderful experiences. I came back discouraged about ever being able to grow orchids without feeling as though I have them in a cage, however. I fear I may have to let my orchids go free, because they cannot possibly be happy with me.
I also came back being much more realistic about trying to grow things in my garden here when they need heat. After seeing what things look like when they are grown well, I consider my garden a pathetic substitute. I must begin focusing more on growing things that are happy here, and leave off my fantasies of tropical paradise until I actually have a garden in a warm climate. Then I will go wild.

To celebrate my return, I promptly got very ill with a chest infection. Thankfully, I am on the mend, but I was simply exhausted by the end of each and every day for awhile there. Sleeping was bliss. I am on the verge of volunteering to sacrifice virgins to the weather gods around here if we don't get beautiful weather over the weekend. Today was glorious, but I was working all day.

I would love to see more photos of Laurie's place. I am weaving a substantial fantasy life around her property.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Pixy}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Get well . . . and, yes, let's do whatever it is we have to do in order to get some warm weather!!! It was 36 degrees this morning!!

(and I'm glad your vacation was good!!!)

feeling better every day, Murmur. Thanks!

I'm starting a project like yours to, I'm new to DG and in zone 8a or b not sure yet. I have Alders, Spruce, and Pine as my canopy, with wild indian plum and elderberry.
Have started the gateway in. I have learned to do a small area then add to it every season. I have kinda a idea how I want it to be, but sometimes that idea's change paths,
I want a path that runs thru it with benches, fake animals ( I don't get much wildlife here)
pretty flowers, ferns, and whatever else I come up with will stay intuned to your tread .
Tilly..

Oh, my, Tilly - that already is wonderful . . . makes my heart feel happy to see it! Love your idea of a path that runs through it, etc.

Very pretty, Tilly! You should start a new thread with your photo so everyone can watch the changes as you go. Wild trillium would be so pretty underneath your trees.

Tillysrat - no, no, don't start a new thread - stay here and we can work in tandem (afterall, Pixs has already assigned me as the worker ant). Lovely spot, and I like the idea of the path with seats and animals. And, even if we can't get her digging, she does come up with some nice ideas - I very much like the idea of the Colcochium atumnale on the sunnier side of the area. On Friday I finished yet another 4 mtrs of clearing Dracus - and it has left a very bald spot in the sunny area. It is quite hot there, and I am going to try to plant out some thyme plants that have been given to me by a neighbour. I'm hoping they will mat over the area. without being too invasive. We have a big sycamore stump near there, excellent sunning spot - and I like the idea of the dog trotting through the thyme on a summer day. I could plant up some of the colcochium in the area too - perhaps around the base of the stump.

The work we did during the winter of digging out the Queens Anne Lace and Dock has worked a treat - the grass has grown on beautifully, and put up tall seed head which are usually obscured by the flowering heads, Looks great right now. Will try for a new picture at the weekend.

I'm fine with non-indigenous planting for the area - this is a garden that has been inhabited since the 16th C. - so I am thinking of this area as a cross between nature and nurture, showing that generations have lived in it and used it. There are quite a few escapees - some aquilegias, blue bells that have come up from our woods - woodland anemones, daffodils, two apple trees. so cultivated plants are just part of this habitation. I am a much more stringent about our woodland - we don't plant up that area except with replacement trees (like the Pyrus Pyrasters that I grow).

I would be so nice if all of you turned up one day. It would also be nice if I turned up over there one day - but I hate flying. DH says once we retire (do you realize how far off that is?!) - and I think, yeah, right - he stops working and I add another acre to the garden. Excellent plan.

Laurie, I think retirement is a long ways off for most of the people on this thread. But not for me!!! LOL - I only work part-time now (plus the elderly parent care twice a week) and plan to retire at the end of the year.

Of course, then I want to take the Master Gardener classes, join a garden club and a book club, etc., etc., etc. If the property in back of me hasn't sold by then, I'll probably be rototilling - HA!

Ah, retirement! What a concept. When we were vacationing in Hawaii, Mike and I would get up together each morning (what a concept!!) and have coffee, again, TOGETHER, on the lanai and watch the birds and read the local newspaper - no news that wasn't about Kauaii. It was bliss! Now here we are back in the saddle again. It's just after 8:00 am and he's been gone for 2 hours. I think I remember a kiss goodbye.

Laurie, if you are the worker ant, then I am the worker bee. The fact is that this life is simply too short to do all the gardens I would like to do, so yours must exist for me in fantasy. Fortunately, my unconscious will not know the difference. So bring on the photos! The grass seedheads sound entirely graceful!

Tillysrat, I have a wild variegated elderberry that gets out of control each year. I will swear that it grows two feel a year easily. I am considering whether I should begin cutting it WAY back, except that I love the bark. It's really old and crinkly. The birds love the berries and we always get one or two robins nesting in the tree. If it were in the right place I'd just let it go and it would get to its proper size and shape and be fine. But, alas, it was here when we moved in and is extremely well established. If I were retired, I would make elderberry wine.

Bushy trees - I planted up 3 Salix purpurea Nancy Saunders last year (these are in two of the sunnier beds). What beautiful trees-treated as shrubs. Lovely reddish branches, with blue gray leaf, stooled each year, it'll put up multiple stems of 2m in a year - after a few years they really bush out with 10's of branches. A real winner. I have one growing behind cotinus coggygria (spellling on that?) and the round dark maroon leaves against the narrow thin blue gray is a stunner. the only drawback is that the cuttings strike really well - already I have 8 new plants, and gulp, another years cuttings in hand. I'm going to end up with a tree nursery. It becomes quite compulsive.

LOL - wish you were next door to me, Laurie - they sound absolutely gorgeous!!! (Hmmmmm . . . maybe you could quit your current job and start your tree nursery??? You'd be home with your gardens, but still making money!!)

Thanks everyone, Just got home from work don't get to play much. I have been watching two treads. I think I will stay right here and share with you. the other is 50 trees for murmur and loved it. I also havw some wild bulbs not sure what they are
have tried to transplant but no luck. they almost look like tiny bleeding hearts.
heres a pic thery a so pretty under the trees. would like to know what they are, I hope this right the last pic took me 4 hours to get it right but I think I got it. I'm waiting for my order from michigan blub I ordered some lady ferns, hostas,bleeding hearts,peacock orchids, and a mock orange for a small shrub for a area not sure yet where to put it yet but I like the smell. got to go for now I'll be back
Tilly

I DID IT AGAIN
I have mastered my dumb computer
the smoking haze is my burning the dead fall
Tilly

Tillysrat, those are our wild bleeding hearts. They are delicate and lovely and you will always have them. They spread very, very easily. Fortunately they are easy to pull if they come up where you don't want them.

"Nancy Saunders' sound divine, Laurie. I'll have to look for that one. This year my smoke trees are underplanted with trumpet lilies in orange and yellow shades. It will be quite the striking color combination if it works.

I love those little wild bleeding hearts - so delicate looking . . . and when they no longer look pretty, just yank 'em out - they will return!!! Tilly, that truly is a lovely looking area you have going there!

Pixy, I can't wait to see a photo of the smoke tree with the orange & yellow lilies!! sounds gorgeous!

Speaking of lilies, I just finished planting 100 of them (all in large pots). Should be attractive if the deer don't get them!!! I had six deer on the edge of my property tonight - some of them were a bit skittish, but the ones that are apparently my regular visitors, just watched me.

Ahhhh, murmur, if the trees would fetch that kind of money, I would......actually, no, I stay in workwork because I love what I do - (we occassionally play the lotto - our idea of being wild! - and have won £10! - but we always do the 'what if we won' conversation, and the only think I can come up with that's missing is having my own 25m lap pool - there is even a barn nearby that I want to buy and rebuild to house it. My own pool - going to they gym's pool, that I would give up. Its horrible. Although I would miss some of my swimming friends).

Tilly, your dicentra look incredible - and they are wild? Excellent. Now that is a win win.

Work time.

Don't you just love it when wildlife start taking you for granted? We struggled for possession of our little property with a pair of mallard ducks who just didn't seem to understand the concept that my pond is off limits to them. I haven't seen them in a few days, so maybe they've nested elsewhere. As much as I would love to see little ducklings in my yard, my dogs would likely terrorize them, although the parents do not seem perturbed by the dogs. These ducks are so bold I have to get right up on them before they take off, only to return the minute I turn my back. Finally they stayed out of the pond but began hanging around the bird feeder getting the seeds off the ground. That was an interesting sight. Two days ago I noticed them swimming in my neighbor's swimming pool. They appeared very peaceful there so maybe that is their new home. I was amused to hear my neighbor trying to shoo them away while standing at the edge of the pool. They just looked at him.
I do hope the lilies come up the way I'm planning. They are sprouting and some look rather small. But I have some new ones coming in, so those should do well. I've also underplanted with tall tangerine colored daylilies. Hope they bloom! Others appear to grow daylilies without one bit of difficulty, but mine are persnickety about blooming. Maybe this year. Hope springs eternal.

And gardeners are the most hopeful people in the world!!!

Pixy, hope you have good luck with your daylilies - I just divided some up . . . drive on over to the island if you want some (hehehehehe - and bring a shovel . . . I'm still planting!!).

Laurie, glad you like your job . . . my DH and I also play the "what would we do with the money if . . ." game - strangely enough, there is very little we would change. We would indeed build a home (or several) staffed by only the very best whom we would pay very well, for developmentally disabled people. DH's middle son is such a person and, although he lives alone, would do so much better in a good group home. I job coach developmentally disabled people, most of whom live with their families, but that can't go on forever, of course. So what a wonderful feeling that would be!!! I guess I'd buy a new car, but then again, maybe not - after all, my 11 year old car still runs fine and only has 75,000 miles on i!!

It's going to rain soon, but I don't work today so I am heading out to plant a few more trees - and let them drink in nature's moisture!

I think there is a direct line between gardening and contentment.

Ducks and ponds.

There was a lovely programme made a few years ago called tales of the green valley. I'm not sure they made it available in the US - I'll have to check. They came across the problem of how to get the happy swimming geese out of the pond and back into the enclosure at the end of the day. Shhooooo did not work, nor did flapping things at them. Smart woman - picked up big stick and threw it into the pond for water/stick loving dog. Geese out instantly.

The minds of women are endlessly creative.

Good one, Laurie! I will keep it in mind! My big dog would love an excuse to get into the pond. I have not seen mamma and papa duck for a few days. Likely they found another place to nest. I think one reason they were so reluctant to fly away is that mama was heavy with eggs. Last year when I chased what I believe to be the same pair out of the yard, mama duck could hardly get off the ground, poor thing. I love seeing the male duck standing very tall and proud next to her. Brings up images of the Beatrix Potter books we loved as kids.

laurie
Been thinking of some plants that might look good in your wild garden.
Butterfly bushes ( this one grows into a large bush with long bottle bush type flowers, and are deep purple), cornflower (centaurea montana), and pampas grass for in the sunny ares and jacob's ladder for in the dappled sun/shade areas. I have some and just love them and so do the butterflies. I got in to a purple haze, everything thing in this area is purple even my clematis vines and the seat on my bench arbor. love to set have a cup of coffee and whatch them and the humming birds have two feeders. Have pics somewhere of last year will seen as soon as I can find them.

And pixydish:
I wound'nt cut that elderberry way back maybe keep it pruned to the size you like it.
The birds would not like you much, they have to eat to.
love to see a pic of it.
tilly

Laurie Was looking at some of the other forums, Why I wait to catch my ferry to go to work wish I had a lap top for these rides. There is one I thought was interesting by Marshmallow in Beginner flowers forum might give you some ideas some I thought were neat
Got to go off tomorrow hope its nice been windy and ugly around here last few days.
Tilly

No worries, Tillysrat. I can't cut the elderberry. Like you said, too many birds depend on it for food. Plus, it has taken years for that nice bark to develope. I don't want to ruin it. I'll have to photograph it for you. I'm starting a hosta bed just underneath it.

Good I really didn't want it cut love the idea of hostas around it . I got home to see my new box of plants can't wait till AM to pot them and get them in the greenhouse and get them going. I think my Astilbe's are ready to plant I just wish the weather would be nice to me I'm still getting frost on so mornings. can wait to see the pic.
tilly

tillysrat - would love to see the purple haze - sounds marvellous! In fact I just picked up polemonium purple rain for another shady area in the garden - I could always make a right turn with the barrow and take them down to the wild area. I'll pop over to beginner's flowers for a look.

Incase you want to try another feature on DG - do you know that you can give someone a direct link to any forum/post on Dave's - if you use copying command under edit on your control bar at the top of the page, blue highlight the http address, then press copy - move down to your message and press paste, the address will make a hyper link automatically. Dave has thought of everything. Using it I feel so cool, almost as if I know what I am doing.

This is my purple haze area, I love to set there, and I can see my whole yard almost, I only have a acre of land but we call it "Gods little acre" because you have to have at least 2 1/2 acres to own property here, but we have a grandfather's clause from back in 1972 "which is a long story" I will never leave here, My HD
wants to be buried here but I don't think that's possible. Never mind I'm rattling on.
Forgive me.
Had a good day kinda the wind was bad. but I got a start on my woodland project. I got a spot for my astilbes, still have 8 to go, planted four today have a long way to go. also got my new order in pots, let them grow abit make sure they are okay or I want my money back
here's a pic of Purple haze some people in this area think of lavender but I have tried to grow it but it doesn't like it here.
the plant on the far right is the butterfly bush.

This is one of my helpers. I make, it then its theirs, I love my cats. I will show you the real Tilly and the Rat so, where I came up with my name. But this is Sassy never out of my sight loves to be wherever I am and is always underfoot.