How to transplant JM's from container to bed?

I have two weeping type jp's in large containers. They have done well for the past 3 years, but had to be watered 2x per day last summer during drought. They also get a lot of reflective heat from concrete patio and brick retaining walls. I'm currently redesigning a corner bed in the courtyard and would like to transplant them into this bed. I think they will do well there as they will retain more moisture being in the ground and the bed gets shade in late afternoon.

My question is - how do we transplant them without damaging them? I want to have a PLAN before DH and friends start their usual trial and error methods - LOL! I'm thinking we need to
1) lay the containers on their sides supported by very thick padding (to protect the pots),
2) loosen the soil around the edges of the pot,
3) gently work the tree out (easier said than done I'm sure) onto some type of support like a tarp,
4) lift root ball with support and transport to new location (we have a wheeled pallet type of thing),
5) lift tree using tarp and set into new position.

Any other suggestions besides hiring professionals? LOL!

Debra

The bed being redesigned - this is where the two JP's will be transplanted. I want to put a small water feature in it, a small boulder and a larger tree of some type. The larger one will be in the corner (where the fountain is now) - any suggestions for companion trees is welcome also. I'm thinking a larger variety of JP.

This message was edited Feb 24, 2007 8:30 PM

I would use a saw or long blade to saw along the edge of the container while it is still standing up to loosen the soil and any roots from the planter. If the trees are not yet in leaf, and the limbs are flexible, you could gently wrap the limbs up out of the way with some paper and twine. This may not be possible as large as yours are. It will probably be easier to pull them out if you tip the pots, but I would be afraid of breaking branches and would probably try to get a shovel or two around the edges and lift it out, but not if it was too heavy. I think your idea for moving is good, we would also use a tarp and drag it around our place, if not too heavy, "sledding" can be easier than rolling. You might try moving the whole pot to the new location and sliding the tree out into its new hole if that is possible.

Good luck, these are nice trees!

Laura

Thanks, Laura. Good suggestion about loosening the soil/roots before tipping container. I wish we could move the entire container closer but those things are incredibly heavy. It will be a major feat just to tip them!

Debra

Edited to add: I'm thinking only tilting about 45 degrees, not flat on the ground, so as to prevent damage to branches. It will take a lot of padding!

This message was edited Feb 25, 2007 8:00 AM

Two quick notes ...I am not a person who can answer the taking out question ...it will be a job though and TWO people at least IMHO.... But I have had several trees shipped with bubble wrap...wrapped and taped around the whole top of tree, all branches, gently sourrounding them and tightening them to keep 'em in sort of close ...not too tight though ..IT WORKED GREAT I thought it was stupid looking the first time I received one like that but it is incredibly secure ...
Secondly and most importantly !!!!!!!! Trees in containers grow MUCH slower and shorter an less broad IE: smaller... than in the lanscape ...you only want to do this once!!!! It is hard to tell from the pic but It looks like this space is a bit small for ONE let alone two and even if it does work in that location I would think within a couple of years all your other plantings ( there) will be dwarfed and insignificant...just a thought and something to be aware of ...the pots DO make the trees look bigger but I still am a bit concerned ...the biggest mistake we ALL of us make is placing stuff in areas which our minds can't visualize future growth and with potted plants to landscape you are also dealing with two distinct growth patters ...David

Two really good comments posted earlier. First, It's really important to work from the side of the container, inward to the massed root part of the rootball, and please take your time. I have moved several laceleaf JMs from large containers into the landscape, and although it must be done gently, you should do well. Do watch the small branches, some will be brittle. Secondly, the comment about spacing is a key one. I had the same impression when I looked at your proposed site. I really struggle with the spatial thing. The JM's will end up being the viewer's focalpoint, whether we intend it or not. I'm no expert, but I don't see how you can put two JM's there. BTW, I like what you have there, but I understand how we gardeners just love to keep changing things. I guess that's where the joy is. Good luck!

David you are absolutely correct - it will take a minimum of two people and I'm hoping to have three. DH and a friend had a hard enough time just placing the pots EMPTY, then moving them a few inches after the trees were planted. They are extremely heavy.

The bed is a little larger than it appears in the photo. It varies between 9 1/2 and 11 feet deep and it's 20 feet long from the corner of the retaining wall to the gate on the right side . I will be removing almost every plant in it now and starting from scratch. The fountain and climbing roses were removed this fall. The others will be transplanted in about 2 weeks. We are bringing in more top soil and compost. My plan is to berm up two spots for these weeping trees so they have room to 'hang' down. I want them to spread out over the edge of the little pond (approx 4x5').

I've measured friends' mature trees to get an idea of how much they will spread. The area will be primarily a water feature, two weeping jp's, and one taller tree in the corner. There won't be much room or anything else. Maybe some small azaleas, hostas, and a few bulbs for spring color. I agree - we only want to do this once. What do they say in carpentry? Measure twice, cut once?

Peony, we cross posted. Since you guys are the experts - and I did ask for your advice - maybe I should consider only one in that area? I do want a taller tree of some type in the corner, but am now being convinced only one laceleaf instead of two.

What do you think about one tall tree, one laceleaf, one small boulder and one 4x5' pond? And how would you arrange them? Note: the deepest part of the bed is approx in front of where the roses are in the photo. It was dug out with the original intention of planting a tree there so I'm thinking that's the best spot for the pond.

Thanks everyone! This is exactly what I need - info from those who know what they are talking about! You've probably saved me from making a big mistake. Hmmmm....now where to put that second laceleaf????

Debra

Hi fleurs: pretty bed! I would agree that the one tall JM as your key focal point would be nice in that space. How do camellias do in your area? A short one (with maybe white blooms?) could work in that grouping with your JM. As with azaleas, they like acidic soils, so that would make them all fairly easy to maintain together. Maybe you could find a variety that would give you color/focal when the JM is just starting to leaf out, and blend with the bulbs you choose? Just a thought......

Thanks, Imapigeon (I like your name),

The new growth is so pretty. I like the way it changes colors. I like white blooms and had not thought of camellias. I've never grown them before. The brick wall faces east - will have to research that. I forgot - I have purple louisiana iris that I would like to keep near the water feature. There are a few in the bed already and plenty more in our pond.

Debra

I'd say that those dissectums will get about 10 ft high and wide in 15 or 20 years (although I can't ID it specifically most dissectums will get this size). If that's the case they would almost completely fill the bed by your dimensions.

Also pairs of japanese maples don't look right IMHO.

Ten feet high???? Wow. I never knew they would get that tall!

Yes, they get there in a different manner than upright trees. Some dissectum varieties will not get that high unless staked up. However, based on the way your trees are growing, I would say they will slowly get up to that size. They will mostly likely be wider than tall though.

Here is a full grown 'Tamukeyama' copyrighted by John Frett from the University of Delaware archives. You can't say exactly how large it is, but I would say that that tree is 10 ft high and 12 ft wide if not more.

This message was edited Feb 26, 2007 2:36 PM

Matt, that's gorgeous. I'm beginning to rethink this whole thing and am getting confused! I'm convinced that a single specimen, as a focal point, is the way to go. My original plan was to have one taller tree of some variety to provide shade with other plants underneath. So now I have to decide whether to 1) stick to the 1st plan of a taller tree with a canopy and find another location for these two trees or, 2) use one of these instead of a taller one as it would be beautiful in the corner of the bed with the pond next to it. In either case, I still need to find another location for one or both and that's not easy because of our deer problem. This is getting more complicated by the minute! LOL!

I think one of these back toward the corner with some low-growing evergreens around its "skirts" and around the pond would be spectacular. If you were to underplant the maple itself with very-early-spring bulbs, they'd be up, blooming, and fading by the time the maple leafed out and covered their foliage down to the ground. I would consider a "triangle" effect (I think others have mentioned that, too) with the maple, the pool, and a rock. You could do a flattish rock that wouldn't visually interfere with your view of the tree, maybe----just something a little higher than your pool? Another alternative might be to have the rock BE your pool with a carved-out (or fake concrete) flat rock, and then maybe you could use an evergreen shrub for the 3rd item in the triangle?

imapigeon,

That would be an advanced version of option #2 above and I love it! Gosh, I'm glad I started this thread. Everyone has been so helpful. You've gone far beyond "how to get the trees out of the containers". This corner bed is viewed from the dining room and I was hoping for something beautiful and serene to look at during meals. Thank you all for your valuable contributions!

Debra

Debra:
If your butterfly bush is anything like mine are, you'll never see the corner bed from the window anyway! :-)
Lovely spot!
Janet

LOL! Actually, I wacked it way back to about 24" just yesterday. It was too tall last year and the branches would bend to the ground when it rained. Good eye!

Debra

You can trim the skirts up a bit for height and also open up the center of the tree to show the structure more so that it is not so "mushroom-like" and still have it in that spot...I'd go for it and keep it trimmed if needed to enhance the space.

Laura

That's an intresting idea, Laura. I can imagine how it would enhance it's appearance, particularly if it gets too dense. Not sure I would do it myself though - I can ruin a simple rose bush trying to prune it!

You could always have a professional do the first trim and show you how to keep it cleaned up. You wouldn't need to have it done every year, I don't think. A lot of it is just getting in your mind how the tree is shaped and cutting away what detracts from it looking "graceful". Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I don't, but I like to prune things!

Laura

LOL! That's my problem - I like to prune things, too. Once I start, I can't stop!

Oh, I SO know what you mean, lol! I'd rather prune with hand pruners than hedge clippers so that I have more control. Maybe I should have been a hair stylist rather than an engineer, lol! Or...maybe I could have a second career pruning trees when I retire. There I'll be, a gray haired lady with a nice collection of hand pruners and a ladder...I'll have to stick to shorter trees, though because I don't think I'll be up to climbing too high!

Have you decided when to do the big move yet?

Laura

Laura, tht's a funny thought! No haven't decided yet. We've been in Scottsdale since the 27th and don't return until tomorrow. Haven't had time to think about it. It will be a priority once back home!

Debra

Can't wait to read more. I am learning so much here, Thank You!

Do be careful about 'professionals'. I hired one to do the maples by the front door and had to fire him on the spot. There are a lot of people out there who say that they can prune maples who have no idea what that even means.

First step was taken today! I transplanted 4 azaleas and 1 rose from the bed where the maple will be. Most everything in the bed currently will have to be moved for the new design. While in the shop getting tools, I noticed the pieces of the fountain propped against the wall for winter storage and began to consider using the base as my new water feature. It could be modified by using the bottom only with a 'bubbler' in the center. It wouldn't be deep enough for fish, but it would be for plants. Hmmmm......must think on this more.......that would sure save both time and money! Still no date for the big transplant project, but am at least preparing the bed!

Debra

Edited to add - you are right, Doss. I've seen a lot of damage done by 'professionals'!

This message was edited Mar 6, 2007 2:01 PM

How exciting to make something happen after all of this planning. I can't wait to see the final project and I'm sure that you can't either!

I hope you're taking pictures of all this!!!

Oh, I almost forgot about the 'during' pictures - already have the 'before'. Thanks for reminding me. I was telling DH about the step by step plan for getting the tree out of the container (he didn't roll his eyes but I know he wanted to!) LOL! He did say it was up to me to arrange for the muscle so now I've got to work on that. The son of some friends of ours is a big strapping guy. He and a couple of friends spread 250 bags of mulch for us last year and were very hard workers. I think I know who to call! Here he is helping DH plant magnolia trees 3 years ago.

I got a kick out of that pic...looks like alot of cyperin' going on there....did you have to tell them "that tree sure ain't gonna plant itself" HA that would make a good caption for that photo don't ya think ;>) David

ROTFLOL - before I got to the bottom of your message with the photo I was thinking - Now that has to be the funniest looking Japanese Maple tree I have EVER seen.

What? You've never seen a 'Southern' Japanese Maple with those waxy leaves and creamy white blossoms? LOL!

More progress was made today. I moved the bird feeder, raked the black oiled sunflower seed hulls that were at places 1/2 inch deep, trimmed back the Louisiana Iris that stayed green all winter (it is putting out new growth and the wild iris we transplanted from the woods last year are coming back also - yipee!), then laid out an outline of the pond. I prefer a free-formed pond and deep enough for small fish. I think the jp tree, a nice size boulder and the pond will work nicely in the space. If I'm lucky, the iris won't have to be moved and they will be close to the edge of the pond. Perfect!

I did take photos but cannot load them until DH gets home and tells me where he hid the thingy I put the memory card into. I'll post a couple then and hope anyone with advice/comments will share!

Debra

Can't wait! I'm getting a vicarious thrill out of seeing progress on your project, since I am busy with a non-gardening one of my own! If anyone wants to know how to lay 12" vinyl tiles, I'm the princess, if not the queen.....

Here is the bed as the day ended today.....

The maple will be approx where the leaf barrel is now. The pond is outlined in both yellow twine and red flags. A boulder will be in-between toward the front. Some type of 'spitting' water fountain will be where the bird bath is now. Any comments/recommendations/suggestions?

Debra

And this is the tree to be transplanted into the bed. It's the fuller of the two (the one in the foreground of the first photo). The bed will be built up in the area the tree is to be planted.

IMHO~ I think I'd keep the "spitter" low, and the boulder medium if this were my project. That way the gorgeous JM can be the diva, and the others supporting cast. Maybe a small waterfall? One of those one-rock flat things that trickles? My front pond waterfall has what we call the "birdbath/catfeeder"----a very shallow scooped-out place that the birds love. Fortunately, the cats don't actually bother the birds there. But I'm thinking that way you wouldn't lose the function of your birdbath, and you'd get the sound of the trickling water.......?

Our posts crossed----your tree is gonna be GORGEOUS in that spot!!!

This message was edited Mar 9, 2007 3:01 AM

Yes, I like the idea of a one rock 'flat thing that trickles'. LOL! I don't want anything too tall or busy. The three level fountain was the focal point previously and was located in the corner where the tree will be in the future. The hummingbirds loved to bath on the top level. I'd like something the larger birds would enjoy, too. The courtyard is a great place for birds and butterflies.

Debra

Wow! What a fun read. I have no suggestions, but thoroughly enjoyed the dialogue and look forward to watching the work in progress. Debra, that is a lovely area. The view from your dining room will be spectacular.

Bonnie

Thanks, Bonnie! Welcome to the JP forum. Please stick around - with your decorating skills, I'm sure you will have some great suggestions when it's time to place items in a way that is 'pleasing to the eye'. I need all the help I can get.

To my new JP friends.....I'd like to introduce you to Bonnie. She posts regularly on the Pets forum and is a joy. One of the the warmest, funniest, most supportive DG'ers you will ever meet. Oh yeah, and she has a single tomato plant named George. LOL!

Debra