Fighting Spider Mites

OK, I've had about enough of these pests and their little webs on the undersides of my leaves.

For the last few weeks (perhaps since I brought them indoors for the winter) my Ti's have had Spider mites. I have tried showers, wiping down the leaves, a soapicide (sp?), and immunox with no avail.

They don't seem to really be hurting the plant that much, but they can easily spread to my other plants and that worries me. They have really hurt other plants of mine in the past. What can I do to get rid of these things. I keep the humidity as high as I can, bc I know they like dry conditions, but it doesn't seem to help much. Is there something better I can try?

Thanks

Just curious...how are you keeping the humidity up?
Are you using a humidifier?
That's about the only thing that works, IMHO, (along with good air circulation) if you have a large number of plants in one area.

Hi Nan. Yes I use two warm mist humidifiers (no filters). They keep the humidity at 60% most of the time. It's harder to keep the humidity up in the new house, but I'm trying. I'm going to try giving the plants a shower again tonight.

I'm about to bring in some lady bugs, LOL.

I have kept the mites off my other plants so far. I just started doing some more Google-research and it seems these are definitely the two-spotted spider mites. Apparently Ti's are prone to having them.

I don't seem to have really bad infestations, but if I don't manage them, I know they'll get out of control. Like I mentioned, they've killed some of my softer leaves plants before.

Luckily I got rid of the aphids from last winter. Those suckers were even worse. But the spider mites are a pain in their own right.

Oh yea they got me good. Last year I lost a Brug. This year it's my son's palm. It's one sick puppy right now. I don't have them on all of my plants. It seems that every year I get one plant right about this time. Always a large plant that was outdoors and I’m trying to over winter. I have tried some sprays in the past and my plant's have always died. I think the sprays have done as much damage as the mites. Holly

You're right...best get on top of those pesky buggers right now!

Hmm...humidity at 60 percent and you still have mites....have you tried any of the horticultural oil sprays?
I've only used one type, OUTDOORS...on (guess what, Holly/AnnS?) Brugmansias...and it worked!
Have you considered trying Neem Oil as a spray?
It is reported to be safe and effective.

I had a large Ti indoors a few years back.....lost it, eventually, to mites, too!

I don't know what the differences are, but I use a cool mist humidifier.

Cool mist uses the filters. I think they are more work myself and money for filters/cleaning, but the ones I use likely use more power. They actually boil the water (or at least I guess that's how they make the steam). You don't see them often, I usually only see cool mist around here now.

I think I tried Neem oil once. Isn't that the stuff that stinks so bad? It seems my options for spraying are limited mostly by these plants being indoors. Like most of you, I only keep these guys inside during winter. I am tempted to start leaving them in year round (at least the ones prone to infestations of some sort). So it's hard to spray anything without it being dangerous, especially since we have pets in the house. They aren't allowed in my plant room, but the fumes alone aren't good for the birds especially.

I'm going to keep trying to showering them. If that doesn't work by another month or so, I might go back and try the Neem. The buggers seem to disappear when I put them outside, so I'm guessing it's the constant rain that gets rid of them in the spring. I'll try that same process indoors via the shower.

Son's palm is now outside. It was so bad that I tossed it. Washing the three plants that sat next to it they look ok but I'm not taking any chances.

I'm wondering if you're positive that they're spider mites and not some other pest? I'm surprised that you haven't been able to control them with the humidity and the various other things you've tried, so I figured it's worth doublechecking the ID.

Anybody use systemic insecticide granules? I haven't gotten around to looking for them in a store.
I got mites on my Ti plant too, years ago.

I'm pretty sure it's them. The webs are a dead give away as far as I can tell. Plus they look like the mites I've seen in pictures.

I just saw tonight the Ti's shared with my Alocasia's... so now I have to fight them on that front as well. And that's bad news bc the EE is so much more fleshy than the Ti. Last year the spider mites decimated my EE's - I ended up having to cut them back to the dirt until spring.

I noticed they had semi-changed color lately, and I just never thought to get really close with a bright light and look. Sure enough, webbing and little mites crawling around. Ugh, I hate these things.

I blasted the Ti's with water tonight and put indoor insecticide on the Elephant Ears. I'll start misting them daily since the humidity isn't working. I'm also going to try and close the door to the room they are in to increase the humidity further. I'll see what happens. If nothing else, I just need to fight them off till spring. Usually the rain will get rid of them. I just hate to give the plants showers this time of year bc it gives them wet feet for so long.

I'm battling mites as well and have been reading up on them. If you can use neem or a horticultural oil spray, that would be better than just water. Make sure to spray under the leaves. Use a sticker/spreader/surfectant with the oil. If the plants are sensitive to oil, you can spray the oil off after a while.

Beware of using pesticides when you have a mite problem. There's a study that found that imidacloprid (the active ingredient in Bayer Advanced's "rose and flower" and "tree and shrub" products) increases the fertility of the two-spotted mites. http://www.aenews.wsu.edu/Jan02AENews/DavidJames/DavidJamesPDF.pdf

I also read somewhere else (I think U Conn. extension?) that Orthene (systemic pesticide) may also increase fertility of the mites. (That paper said organophosphates, such as Orthene.)

Mites have a faster lifecycle when warm (7 days versus 21 to adulthood). This translates to a serious difference in a period of one month. 1 mite becomes:
20 mites at 60F
13,000 at 70F
13 million+ at 80F
(Numbers from http://mrec.ifas.ufl.edu/LSO/Manual/insect-text-only.htm)

Of course, they prefer drier climes. However, my mite problem developed during the hot humid summer in DC, and I'm fairly certain that use of imidacloprid had something to do with it. I've never had them persist through the summer. And since some greenhouses also have a spidermite problem, high humidity doesn't guarantee to keep their numbers down.

Good luck! I really need some myself!

I wish I could cool the room down then, maybe that'd get rid of them. Unfortunately I don't want to chill the plants too much, they tend to stop actively growing.

I might end up having to use the neem oil again, especially on the more fragile plants (like the EE). Maybe we'll get luck, and have another one of those 60-70 degree days in the coming weeks. We've been in the 30's-40's the last few days.

OK, it seems like every day I've discovered these things have gotten onto another plant, despite my attempts to quarantine the infected plants.

I do notice a significant decrease in their population size after I spray, but the eggs eventually hatch and now I've got a whole new set of them to deal with. Not to mention they occasionally get on plants that are very hard to spray (like Pothos).

I've read dozens of sites saying predator mites is a solution. But is my problem too "small" to take this kind of step?
http://www.suburbanhabitat.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=219

I'll be glad when Spring is here. Nothing a little outdoor weather and rain can't fix.

Double XX my fingers. Looks like dumping my son's palm was the right decision. I gave all three plants that were sitting right next to it a shower and so far I haven't found any more mites on the plants.

There's a good chance the mites had already gotten on that other plant before you quarantined the infected one, it's just hard to notice the mites until there are a lot of them. I had an infestation in my outdoor container plants this past summer and the same thing happened to me. I really had the best luck with a strong jet of water to dislodge them, repeated this every couple of days even if I didn't see any new mites, then used some insecticidal soap on them and they were fine after that. I would probably take all your plants and if it's warm enough, take them outside and hose them off, otherwise do it in the sink or shower. Then spray everything with neem or insecticidal soap and mist them a couple times a day after that. For the plants that you know were infected, I would repeat the hose down/treat with pesticide in a couple days.

As far as the predator mites, I think they would take too long to work on an already established infestation, they're probably a better control if you use them before the problem gets big. And I'm not sure about letting them loose in the house, I don't know if they're adapted to that environment or if there might be any undesirable side effects from having them indoors.

Thanks, I will just have to start misting the plants daily. Keeping the humidity high has been much harder in the new home. So I am going to have to spray I guess. It's still much to cold to take these plants outside just yet.

You are also probably right about them transferring prior to my quarantining the plants, especially since we have to move most of them in a single truck.

My mite infections aren't horrible. I know when some people say they have spider mites they mean the mites have nearly taken over the plant, with webs all over it and everything. I have, on average, maybe 10 mites per leaf on the larger Ti? Sometimes I'm sure that number jumps incredibly, and other times I see no mites. So my problem is minor, but I also know if I don't control them it'll become major. The mites tend to attack my fleshier plants as noted, which they can harm a lot faster.

I have no idea how I can fight them on the Pothos. Showers and misting are really my only options. They are much too large to spray, I'd use a whole bottle on just one plant.

If the plants aren't severely infected, I've had really good luck with hosing them off and no spraying with neem, etc, so for the Pothos a shower may work just fine unless it's horribly infected (but if you can't spray them, I would probably try to shower them frequently so the mites don't have time to re-establish themselves)

I have a large ivy collection, and the manager of a topiary greenhouse supply taught me this solution. Put a squirt of dish soap (or Simple Green is better) in a bucket of lukewarm water. Turn your plants over and submerge the leaves in the solution - swish them around a little to make sure there are no air pockets. Then pull them out and let them dry. You don't have to rinse them off. For trees and larger plants I turn them over on their sides use a Hudson Sprayer and saturate the foliage. I don't think you can ever eliminate them completely, but if you do this weekly you plants will never show spider mite damage.

I'll give that a shot... I just have to figure out how to keep the dirt in the pot. I just hate putting all those chemicals on my plants, so this will be a much welcomed solution. Thanks

I've been reading this thread with great interest. I've never had a problem with spider mites, but hey we have more than our share of humidity down here! I think I would have to put all of the plants in an enclosed room, set off one of those bug foggers, close the door for a few hours and hope for the best.

Another suggestion .... Y'all could send your plants South for the Winter. Couldn't promise all would want to go back home in Spring though .... :)


Seriously, I hope you get those little bug critters eradicated real fast, before they get your other plants!

I had been told that only miticides work to kill mites because mites are not insects so insecticides don't work. Mites are spiders. Try the safer with miticide in it and if you can, spray all the houseplants so they can't be hiding out anywhere else. Remember to follow the directions carefully. The oil works because they sufficate, but you should have better luck with a miticide. The smell goes away in a couple of minutes. I hate these things, good luck.

You definitely should read the label on the product to make sure it kills the right pests, but a lot of insecticides will also kill mites. All of the things I use for pest control (Garden Safe neem oil and Garden Safe & Safer brand insecticidal soap) list both insects and mites. The neem stuff smells bad for a little while, but the insecticidal soap doesn't smell too bad so it's probably a better bet for indoors.

I hate using harsh chemicals and have been using the Safer Insecticidal Soap for a few years now. I really like it!

Safer used to work, but I swear these things are immune to it now. Immunox 3 in 1 seems to be currently working and it does list Spider Mites as one of the things it kills. I always make sure it lists them by name.

I should note that since I started misting the plants every day (after I sprayed them with the chemical), it seems to have cut their numbers down. I've also tried to keep the humidity up around 50-60% in the plant room, so that should be helping. It's the plants downstairs where the humidity drops to REAL low that worries me still. I try and mist those plants daily too. The EE are especially vulnerable to these darn things. I think I caught them in time on it, but we'll see.

plantladylin, I wish I could send them south so they could stay outdoors all year round. They are all MUCH happier outdoors. My folks are down there this weekend and I've made them promise to bring me back something new. "New" is becoming harder and harder to find when it comes to tropicals though. I'm starting to feel like the handy-man who has one of everything. I just have to fight the mites in a war of the plants, LOL.

LOL .... I hope your parents can find something new and different - I agree with you, that "New" is harder and harder to come by anymore with Tropicals. What part of Florida are your parents in? If they were to visit South Florida, it's much easier to find nice Tropicals down there!

I've seen T-Shirts down here that read: "My parents went to Florida, and THIS is all I got"! Hey, any plant would be better than a T-Shirt! Hope they find you something really, really Good! Post a photo of your new baby when it arrives home!

LOL, will do. They are heading down to the Everglades and then to the keys I believe. We used to travel down that way a lot in the late 80's and early 90's. Currently they have some friends (who are working down there temporarily - retirees) that they are visiting in Key West. Every time I look at the zone map of where most of my plants would grow outdoors (in the continental US anyway)... that's usually the spot. So I look forward to getting something cool.

Just remembered!.....I've read in the past (never tried them though) that those 'pepper sprays' work really well to kill mites.
Has anyone used them?

Seems like Logee's used to carry one....I'll try to research.

Here's one website.....HOT PEPPER WAX - that's what it's called.

http://www.biconet.com/botanicals/hpw.html


This message was edited Feb 19, 2007 2:04 PM

I had a mite infestation on an Alocasia 'Polly' and Alocasia 'New Guinea Gold' last winter. The Safers soap with Miticide did little to nothing. Persistent use of Neem oil wiped them out.

GH

You have to use Neem outside though right? I used it once I think, isn't that the stuff that smells really bad? Maybe if it warms up this weekend I'll try that again, pretty sure I still have the bottle.

I use Neem indoors more than out. I just have gotten used to that smell of rotten onions. The smell lasts about 2 days inside. I actually kinda like it now. LOL You shouldn't use Neem and then set the plant in sun or use it on really hot days. Best to use it very early morning or late evening on outdoor plants. And, I only advocate 100% pure Neem oil by Dyna-Gro, used according to package directions. It's good stuff, really.

GH

I need to get the pure stuff. Whatever I used last time had all sorts of chemicals in it.

If it's warm enough this weekend, I'll take them out and spray them off good. I was hoping we'd get into the 70's, but it's looking like the 60's now. Lows still in the 30's. I wish Spring would hurry up already.

I've been fighting spider mites too and one thing that works is ammonia fumigation. We put the plants in the bathtub and cover it with plastic, then set little cups with ammmonia inside. You have to be careful to take the ammonia out before it hurts the plants. The amount of time depends on the size of the plants, the thickness of the leaves, the amount of ammonia, and the temperature. Usually half and hour for small plants and an hour for a batch of plants in the tub. Experiment with plants that are not irreplaceable. I left my corsican mint in too long last time and it scorched the leaves.

I like to keep the room dark, so the plants are not trying to draw in CO2 for photosynthesis. Afterward I rinse off the plants and soak the soil to remove any residue. If there is a little in the soil, the plants will use it as a source of nitrogen. It doesn't kill the eggs so you have to do it a couple of times. It smells awful, but we leave the bathroom fan on and shut the door.

The ammonia kills just about anything that's crawling on the plants. You can also use this method to clean oven racks, too; it just takes longer :)

LOL, Ammonia or Neem... which is the lesser of the two evil smells.

Thought I'd post an update. Everything's made it through the summer and my collection has grown 3-fold this year I think; new house and all.

And yet I still face the problem of spider mites... at home, here at work. It's about to drive me nuts. Especially when they get into my Christmas Palms (which range between 4-8'). Not exactly something you wipe down. Tried spraying the 8' tree we keep inside off thoroughly over several days outside... but as soon as it's been back inside a month a few new mites pop up and begin to terrorize the tree again. I don't think my infestations are large or significant... but they are noticeable to my ever watchful eye on my plants. I regularly inspect my plants around the house and yard (the neighbors probably think I'm nuts). Naturally I've noticed them show up on soft-leaved plants the most often, though they still keep after my Ti plants, Christmas Palms, and now even my White Bird of Paradise (who'd have thunk it). I'm about 98% positive these are two-spotted spider mites, the signs are hard to ignore. The webbing, the size, the symptoms, etc.

I've tried about every spray I can... Safer's Insecticide Soap works the best because it apparently dissolves them. Unfortunately unless you drown the plant in a bottle of this stuff, it doesn't work in the long term. My plants are much larger than the typical house plant... so I literally use a bottle at times just to cover the whole plant. Eventually, they return a few weeks later... slow at first, then they grow in numbers until I spray again.

The humidity in our home has remained in the 60-70% range all summer (fairly high I think) - and these things still persist.

So now I'm going to try the predator mites, particularly Phytoseiulus persimilis. I'll let you all know how I come out with this, and hopefully it'll help some other folks. I'll probably test this on about 30-50 plants, ranging from mild infections (plants with few leaves) to heavier infections (plants like pothos with hundreds of leaves). I'll also try it on our 8' palms. Keep your fingers crossed for us.
http://www.arbico-organics.com/1151204.html

Hmmmm...so none of the 'oil sprays' have helped, or have you tried any of them?

I know your frustration, and hope it ends soon for you!

Tried Neem Oil... just not practical for any of the indoor plants. Mainly due to smell, but also because we have 15 birds (who are really sensitive to that sort of thing). They can't take the chemicals... hence why I've gone to soaps, etc.

With winter approaching, I'm just desperate to get rid of these things. I've gotta bring 53 plants indoors (in the house or in the garage under the halides) this year, so if this works... it'll be my solution when they all come back inside. Usually winter is the worst of course... bc all the plants touch each other and I can't wash them off without worrying about getting them cold. I'm hoping my garage set up this year at least allows me to give them a bath and then put them back somewhere warm. We have two GH's set up in our garage (I'll have to post a pic once they are full). Like I said, the neighbors think my hobby is a little extreme (guilty of major zone denial).

Oh, didn't realize that you have birds to worry about. That changes things, doesn't it!

I guess I was under the impression that Neem would be safe for birds?
I had briefly read a few summaries on Neem that stated it could be used as a soil drench, and therefore as a systemic.

I can't find Neem around here, and am not prepared to pay the high shipping prices, so haven't used it as of yet. There is a 3 in one(Schultz, I think?) product that contains a small amount of Neem, and I have used that outdoors on a few plants. The label states that it is an insecticide, fungicide and miticide, if I recall correctly.

One year I used Volck oil spray, then later read that it was derived from petroleum products, so haven't used it since, but I took the few plants that had spider mites outdoors and sprayed them then brought them back in after it had dried. Spider mites were gone for months.

Pure, cold-pressed neem oil is all organic and safe for birds and mammals.

An article I've written about the use of neem oil. A link to a supplier follows the article.

Neem Extract as an Insecticide


In India mainly, but also Asia and Africa, grows a tree all plant enthusiasts should be aware of, Azadirachta indica, commonly known as the "neem" tree, and a relative of mahogany. Extracts from the tree’s seeds contain azadirachtin, a relatively safe and effective naturally occurring organic insecticide. Let me preface the comments following, by reminding you that the terms "naturally occurring and/or organic" do not universally mean safe. Pyrethrums, rotenone, and even the very dangerous nicotine are all organic insecticides that should be handled with great caution. Neem extracts, on the other hand are very safely used in a wide variety of cosmetics, as a topical treatment for minor wounds, as an insecticide in grain storage containers, bins, and bags, and a whole host of other applications. Neem is very safe for use around birds & mammals. I'll limit this discussion to its use as an insecticide.

Neem works in many ways. It is effective both in topical and a systemic applications. It is an anti-feedant, an oviposition deterrent (anti-egg laying), a growth inhibitor, a mating disrupter, and a chemosterilizer. Azadirachtin, a tetranortriterpenoid compound, closely mimics the hormone Edison, which is necessary for reproduction in insects. When present, it takes the place of the real hormone and thus disrupts not only the feeding process, but the metamorphic transition as well, disrupting molting. It interferes with the formation of chitin (insect "skin") and stops pupation in larvae, thus short-circuiting the insect life cycle. It also inhibits flight ability, helping stop insect spread geographically

Tests have shown that azadirachtin is effective in some cases at concentrations as low as 1 ppm, but some producers use alcohol in the extraction of neem oil from plant parts which causes the azadirachtin to be removed from the oil. Some products touting neem oil as an ingredient actually have no measurable amounts of azadiractin. I use what is referred to either as cold pressed or virgin neem oil. You may also occasionally find it referred to as "raw" neem or "crude" neem oil.

Neem oil is most often used in an aqueous (water) suspension as a foliar spray or soil drench. Commonly, it is diluted to about a .5 to 2% solution, but the suggested ratio for use in container plant culture is 1 tsp. per quart of warm water. A drop or two of dish soap (castile or olive oil soap is best) helps keep the oil emulsified. The mixture is then applied as a mist to all leaf and bark surfaces and as a soil drench to the tree's root system. It should not be applied as a foliar spray on hot days or in bright sun as leaf burn may occur. Remember to agitate the container frequently as you apply and do not mix anymore than you will use in one day. Neem breaks down rapidly in water and/ or sunlight.

Some users of insecticides feel the need to observe the instant results of their efforts in order to be convinced of the effectiveness of what they are using. The application of neem derivatives does not provide this immediate gratification. There is virtually no knockdown (instant death) factor associated with its use. Insects ingesting or contacting neem usually take about 3 - 14 days to die. Its greatest benefit; however, is in preventing the occurrence of future generations. It is also interesting to note that in studies it was found that when doses were given, purposefully insufficient to cause death or complete disruption of the metamorphic cycle, up to 30 surviving generations showed virtually no resistance/ immunity to normal lethal doses, so it appears that insects build no ‘resistance’ to azadiractin.

I have been using neem oil for five years as both a preventative and fixative and have had no insect problems on my container plants. Applications of cold-pressed neem oil are most effective for use on mites, whitefly, aphids, thrips, fungus gnats, caterpillars, beetles, mealy bugs, leaf miners, g-moth, and others. It seems to be fairly specific in attacking insects with piercing or rasping mouth parts. Since these are the pests that feed on plant tissues, they are our main target species. Unless beneficial like spiders, lady beetles, certain wasps, etc., come in direct contact with spray, it does little to diminish their numbers.

Neem oil does have an odor that might be described as similar to that of an old onion, so you may wish to test it first, if you intend to use it indoors. I've found the odor dissipates in a day or two. As always, read and follow label instructions carefully.

Neem oil can be purchased from many net or local sources. My favorite brand is Dyna-Gro, pure, cold-pressed neem oil. If you have trouble locating a source, you can contact me via the forum or directly.

http://www.biconet.com/botanicals/dynagroneemoil.html

You can also do a search using "Dyna-Gro Neem Oil" & you'll find many suppliers of the pure, cold-pressed product.

Al

Hrm, now I'm wondering if the "Neem" I purchased was really part of something else. Probably some chemical mix. Thanks for posting that. I'll talk to my brother about mixing some pure neem up. He does a lot of agricultural stuff, so that'll give me a chance to test it without all the other (often dangerous) chemical stuff.

Maybe you need to repot these plants and get rid of all the old soil? Might be eggs in the soil?

(Have not read this thread before - apologies if that is something you already did!)