Hellebouris seed?

I read some where that Hellebore seed must be sown fresh. I notice that some of the seed sellers have them for sale now. Is there some types that do not have to be fresh?

Gary

You may want to ask this question in saving seed forum...

Connie

Gary:

It's best to sow Hellebore seeds when they are fresh. Apparently, you get a better germination rate the fresher the seed. If they are no longer fresh, the seeds will still grow, but certain varieties may take longer to germinate. In other words, don't throw the container out if they don't germinate during the 1st season. They may need a 2nd cycle of warm-cold-warm before they are ready to start growing.

People always want to know why Hellebores are so expensive to buy. The reason is that they take so long to germinate and grow!

Here are a few website that will give you more information on germinating these lovely perennials.

http://www.hellebores.org/
http://www.hellebore.com/
http://www.npr.org/programs/talkingplants/profiles/helleborus.html

Good Luck!

The best Hellebore seedlings tend to happen right at their parent's feet the spring after the seed was dropped. But slugs like to mow these down... They beg to be wintersown. I'm trying H. argutifolius this year in WS.

With age, Hellebore seed tends to be less reliable, like Shirley said. The best way to grow them from seed is to collect it yourself (and sow it immediately for germination teh following spring) or have it sent to you from a friend who won't lie about their age or origin! Seed companies are a very mixed shoot.

I have seen plants grow only two seasons to reach blooming size. That is, blooming on the third year.
More hybridisation and selection will make Hellebores easier and easier to grow in future.

Who else is WSing Hellebores?
Kenton J.

I'm buying hellebore seed already freshly sown from Tasmania. The antipodal timing is in our favor for this one.

http://www.southcom.com.au/~hortus/index.htm

I emailed them, told them what I wanted in terms of shape and colors. They carry a lot of different colors -- see the header on their webpage for an idea. Instead of choosing from their list, I told them I wanted all pinks,reds, dark pinks and dark purples -- anything that would show up and flower above the foliage. I told them I wanted all shapes and we decided $30.00 would make a fine order. They are going to send me seeds in Jan to put in the refrigerator (although WS would be fine, I imagine) for germination in spring.

If there is anybody who would like to piggyback on my order because they didn't want to spend the money on freight and phyto (if there is any phyto, I'm not sure), or because they just want to try a few seeds, I'm happy to have them shipped here and then resend to you. I am not selling my seeds -- you have to buy your own from them. They would just be mailed together from Australia to Indiana.

For those interested, I think the best thing would be for you to place your order directly with them, describing exactly what you want and send your money directly to them (I sent cash in the mail, not sure what real people do who are more careful than I am). Tell them I posted on DG and ask them to pack it with my order and I can send it out to you when it gets here.

D-Mail me if you want to do it, but this isn't a coop. It's just an offer. I don't want a million people, but I have a feeling the people who own the company would be happy to pack 10 or 15 packages with your names on them and all I'd have to do is slip them in a bubble envie, which I am happy to provide, once it gets here, and mail them out. I imagine all envies would be 52c to mail, but it is stupid to have you spend 39c to mail me 52c postage, so let's just leave it that you "owe" me, and we'll work it out another way, somewhere down the line.

I suppose this is also subject to the Dudleys saying ok, although I can't imagine they'd turn you down.

Suzy

ELIZABETH TOWN HELLEBORES
Corrie & John Dudley
P.O. Box 28 Deloraine 7304
Tasmania Australia
Phone 0363681192
hortus@southcom.com.au

This message was edited Dec 25, 2006 2:04 AM

i am! About 8 kinds.

Where do you FIND these places, Suzy?

I would like to get a few. I will contact them.

Hey, cool! Hopefully it will all work out with the Dudleys.

Summer, in answer to your question on how I found them, I actually do a lot of importing from Tasmania. Um, a lot. And I always send cash -- sometimes hundreds and hundreds of dollars -- and tell them vaguely what I want and they ship it, plus a lot more, or more from their secret stashes or whatever. I have never been disappointed.

BUT I usually import miniature daffodils and standard daffodils which have to be turned around from the southern hemisphere to the northern hemisphere, and it's a pain. There are a lot of daffodil folk in Tasmania, so I know a lot of people -- a lot meaning 10 or 15 LOL, but it's more than I know in New South Wales, for instance. These hellebore people live in the same town as a pal of mine, so I sort of feel like I have an "in".

Besides that, what made me order from this particular place was the timing and how great it will be to get sown seeds ready for their cold period and the pictures Natch! Gotta love those pictures!

Suzy

There are a lot of daffodil growers in Tasmania?! Who knew? For unknown reasons I thought Tasmania was in Russia, surrounded by the Caucasus! So I was imagining you in some sort of clandestine mink smuggling, a la Gorky Park. Dang atlases, always misleading me.

LOL! The great thing about Tasmania, besides the people, is that it has a climate semi-similar to ours. It gets cold enough to root daffodils, for instance, but it probably isn't as hot and humid as here. (at least compared to Indianapolis; Chicago maybe isn't as hot.). Much of mainland Austrailia to the north is closer to Alabama and Tennessee and California in terms of climate -- that's not counting the desert -- and their stuff isn't as winter hardy.

There are a lot of flower people in Tasmania -- dahlias, lilies, gladiolus, I mostly know about the bulbs, but I'd bet every major class of flowers is well-represented with world-famous breeders.

Suzy

Let's go!

Tell you what -- you buy the tickets and I'll get us the places to stay!

If you want to add New Zealand to the itenerary, that would be okay, too. :)

Suzy

I'm not going to try these because I have too much to learn yet. Please keep us post with photos on how yours comes along.

wel, i DO have 90 mazillion gillion frequent-flier miles ...

LOL! Well, I think it would take a LOT of FF miles to get there and back, but hey! If you have 'em, let's go!

River, I'll let you know....I'm new at seed starting, too, but since hellebores self sow for me, I am feeling pretty confident about the whole thing. We'll see. Might be a case of "famous last words", but the prices are not that high...10 seeds for $3-4.00. It was the shipping of $7.00 that gets me....does it seem like I crab about shipping a lot? LOL!

Suzy

I heard back from the Dudley's and they said, "go for it", so it's a go. That means anybody who wants just one pack of seed can have it.

Their prices are Australian dollars, so we only pay 78c on the dollar. A $4.00 pack of 10 seeds is $3.12.

Suzy

I plan to order seeds from Elizabethtown Hellabores but won't be ready for another week or two. When do you plan to place your order Suzy and will this be good up until they ship out the seeds? Getting a break on the shipping would be wonderful!

Joanne

Hi Joanne,

No problem; I am going to give them a Feb 1 cutoff. That way, my order won't be penalized and I can still take advantage of the cold weather and the ups and downs of springtime temperatures. I plan on putting them in 40 +/-degree temperatures for a week (refrigerator or outside, depending on the weather) and the wintersowing them so they get the fluctuations of day/night frost/freeze, whatever. I can't help but think putting them below zero temperatures straight from the mail couldn't be good for them, but the way the temperatures this winter have been going, it might not be an issue.

The Feb 1 cutoff means your money has to be to them by then. I imagine 8 days will get it to them in plenty of time, so if it's mailed by Jan 21-22 I'm sure it will be plenty of time. Plus, I bet they'd hold up my order 3 or 4 days longer if they know they are waiting on somebody, but I want those seed mailed out to me nolater than the 2nd week of Feb.

Suzy

Thanks suzy! I'll send you a D-mail to get the details.

Joanne

I sow fesh seed in July to August, it doesn't matter if you don't get them sown for a month or so after collecting. This year was very hot and the seed was ready earlier, at least the end of June. I haven't sown any this year, I did a swap.

Two years ago in August I sowed some from a mix of Queen of the Night, a white with heavy maroon spots Ashwood Gardens Hybrid, and one I got from my local garden centre labelled H. orientalis 'Red Shades' which is very robust.

The seeds should be left quite dry until the autumn, then when they are wetted they should remain wet easily. I grow mine in a cold greenhouse and I think some extra summer heat does them good rather than harm, my greenhouse does get some shade. Use a very free draining compost with leaf compost if you have it, sow the seeds with just a light covering of compost. Mine germinate from late December in mild spells.

This is one I sowed in August 2004, making flowers within 2 years of germination. I also have some white ones which should have spots, most likely from the Ashwood hybrid. I grew some from the Ashwood hybrid a few years ago and they took 3 to 4 years to flower, I am assuming the robust 'Red Shades' has influenced early flowering. I have heard of some of these new robust helleborus flowering early, this must be one of them.

wallaby, that is all very encouraging information. thanks!

You're welcome summerkid!

I should add a note that I bought seeds from catalogues a couple of times, the time most of us do this is in the New Year and that is too late, but catalogue companies will stock and sell seeds without telling the truth as they need to stock a constant range of seeds.

The truth is that if they are not sown fresh, they will go into a long dormancy and can take years to break, but if grown in pots and being wet they easily rot. I found out they germinated well when I tried my first lot in the propogator over summer for a start, and left them dry until autumn when I put them in the greenhouse and watered them. They germinated from the end of the year into January and perhaps February in mild spells.

I also think it is a good idea to let them dry well before sowing, a month from harvest is about right.

OK, I'm a little confused. I, too, have 8 or so packets of seeds that were bought this fall. I had figured on winter sowing. Since they are months old, probably, how should I treat them?

The only thing you can do now is get them sown ASAP. They may grow, if you leave them they will not have a chance anyway. I don't even know if the seed I bought was more than a year old!

They will require some cold with fluctuations in temps. Good luck!

Summerkid - I also had hellebore seeds that were several months old and not moisture packed. An experienced winter sower advised that they need warm/cold/warm to germinate if they are not fresh. I sowed them last week in a milk jug and put them in my laundry room where they will stay at 68 degrees until late January. Then I will put them outside like all the rest of my WS jugs. Hopefully they will germinate late spring or summer. Good luck with yours!

Joanne

Thank you, Joanne. I did exactly what you suggested, just now.

wallaby1: Thanks for all your very valuable growing information on germinating Hellebores from seed. I'm delighted to hear that some of the newer hybrids will flower sooner, because it definitely takes 3 to 4 years to get some of the older varieties to flower, but I think it's definitely worth the wait. So, when would you suggest buying Hellebore seeds?

netwiz: What a wonderful idea to put your sown containers of Hellebore seeds in your laundry room! Do you think if you put the container on top of the dryer that would be too warm? Or maybe put a piece of cardboard between the dryer top & the container. This has really peaked my curiosity! I just may be tempted to wash clothes more often, so that the dryer is constantly turned on while I'm home!! My DH and family will be thrilled! Won't they be surprised that I'm doing it for the Hellebore seeds!!!!

Shirley1md - I hadn't thought about putting the jugs on the dryer, may be worth trying. The laundry room was the only room my husband wouldn't freak out over having milk jugs laying around. It didn't hurt that the furnace is also in there and keeps the room nice and warm. We'll have to compare notes next spring and see how our seeds made out.

I can always send my laundry over if you need extra dryer time :)

Joanne

Shirley, there is a thread on the perennials forum where someone in your country actually sells seed fresh, July onwards is the time. The thread has just been resurrected.

There is a grower here who took over a major collection, they sell the seed until September I think, then they sow them and can be bought already sown up until the end of December, thereon as seedlings. I have often thought of buying some, but really have enough (for now). They do sell seeds up until December but recommend up to September.

http://www.farmyardnurseries.co.uk/hellebor/sdprice.htm

You do need to go with a specialist grower to get them at the correct time.