need knowledgeable, experienced winter sowing input esp.from

southern winter sowers. ..........or is that a oxymoron? i need to know if it can really be done in texas. if you have the time can you check out the texas forum and see my thread there. not many people in texas are into winter sowing so i am not getting a lot of information. and if you could, would you please post any thoughts on the texas forum so the folks there can read it if they want to? thank you. barb

Hi Barb,

Trudi posted in one of my threads (here) http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/647362/ scroll all the way to the last one by (poojer) she put her email link, maybe she can answer your question about WSing in Texas :o)

Connie

well hello. your seeds are going today. i will go write poojer, right now ................after i look at the post. thanks connie. barb

mamajack: Welcome! Wintersowers are everywhere! If you haven't checked out Trudi Davidoff's site that's the place to start:
http://wintersown.org/wseo1/index.html
There's even a link to free seeds.


You will even find a list of plants to sow successfully in the warm zones- 8,9, and 10
warm zones winter sowing:
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/wtrsow/2002074212002118.html

Karen

karen i have seen this site and this information. but i always have stupid questions that no one ever thinks to type up. but once i get it i am good to go. i just like to be sure i "have it" before i take off. i am going to try a lot of different seeds. i am just not sure when to do it. it might snow on thanksgiving and be 80 degrees in jan. or it might not. it might be 100 in april next year but it might not. i don't think the weather has been the same here for several years and i just wonder how all of you folks do it with temps like that. i have tentatively set mid. jan. to start but i know a lady in houston who sows in trays.................and she already has them done!! but she brings her trays inside if temps drop. i am trying not to do that. i wanna do it just like the big boys and girls if i can. i always feel so cheated by texas. like right now..........it is a great time to start seeds. but who knew? just like 100 degree temps in april. i never dreamed it would get that hot so fast and then lost time and cuttings and seeds. it's called gardening, isn't it? lol.

mamajack: The weather is fickle in all zones. Last year was my first for WSing, and I started the week after Christmas. In January we had an unusual, prolonged warm spell and my plants started to germinate in January. But they survived! Then we froze again, and even had 0 degree temps in early spring. Heck, even the weather guys can't predict what the weather will do even for a couple of days. So, unfortunately, there are no weather guarantees in WSing, but some folks from your zone will jump in and give you some general guidelines for timing, I'm sure.

Just collect those containers and get the potting mix and things will fall into place.

Karen

"southern winter sowers. ..........or is that a oxymoron? "

Well...the first thing you need to do is consider if there is a difference in seasons between seasons where you live. If so, you have are in a temperate climate.
http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/eae/Climate/Older/Temperate_Climate.html
And if so, you need to think if in the colder months you have less daylight hours where you live, if so you have winter. Winter Sowing is for seeds from temperate climates--they are sown throughout the coolest season, during this cool season there is also less daylight hours than during the warmest season. Germination is effected by both the warming temperatures as the season turns to spring and the lengthening of daylight hours as our area of the world tilts closer to the sun.
http://weathersavvy.com/Q-Science_Why_Seasons.html

Winter Sowing isn't for regions which only have snow and ice during winter, winter sowing is for regions that have winter--the season. Winter, in some regions, is milder and may not always drop below freezing.
http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/It_Doesnt_Snow_Here.html

The repeat action of the seeds going back and forth from colder to warmer temps for several weeks to months is generally sufficient for stratification which loosens hard seed coats and allows a root to emerge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratification_(botany)


Do visit WinterSown.Org to read the FAQs, but more importantly, on the FAQ pages you'll find several reference links to take to educational information to give you greater understanding about the information on each page. With initial assistance from the NAL, I began putting edulinks onto my website earlier this year. Winter Sowing, as I see it, is a springboard for learning, and these links will take you to websites which provide ideas and thoughts that should enrich your winter sowing experiences.

WInter Sowing is very easy to begin with wildflowers. I'll paste in the link for the LadyBird Johnson Wildflower Center, that's a great place to find wildflowers that thrive where you are.
http://www.wildflower.org/

Also, happily keep in mind, that many wildflowers have been bred to create cultivars--these cultivars usually have the same climate tolerances and so are as good a choice for Winter Sowing as their wild ancestors.


Trudi--who in July and August also answers questions from Southern Hemisphere Winter Sowers. There are WSers in Africa, South America and New Zealand ;-)

Poojer, your site and all the work you do are brilliant! There's a lot more to www.wintersown.org than first meets the eye...
(Thanks for the seeds, too.)
Mike

POOJER, it's you..................the guru!! thank you for joining us. now that i have you i need some help with semantics. is "winter sowing" ever done directly on dirt? or in open pots that are brought inside when temps drop? or is "winter sowing" a technique using only covered containers that allow for drainage and entry of rainfall? i thought "WS" was a technique or method using covered containers. i have direct sowed wildflowers in the fall every year but if it doesn't rain there are no flowers. so to me i think of "WS" as a method to contain and control seed environment but also allowing the seed to experience natural conditions.

i will check out the information on the links you sent.

Mammajack, I am in MS and I only had a problem with the days it gets hot. Like when you have an 80 degree day and your plants have sprouted, they will fry if you don't lift the top on the container. Other than that, be sure to put them close to a water hose, those warm days tend to dry them out some and enjoy yourself.
Like I said only frying the plants was the only problem I had.
Sandra

so sandra, you winter sowed in closed containers? and left them outside? when did you sow the seeds?

I did not start mine until Jan, just because that is when I got around to it--lol--you should wait until afte the winter soltice around the 20th or so, not sure of the exact date. Yes, I left them outside, be sure and label them I label on the outside and inside, stick a piece of an old blind on the inside, just in case the outside wears off.
I found that I like gallon milk jugs to sow in the best. I also used 2 liter coke bottles.
Just be sure and lft the lid on warm days so they will not fry. You will be pleased with your plants.
Sandra

i can just see my yard now. i live on a major road where a lot of cars pass by. people all over this county know me and i don't have a clue who they are. folks out here don't garden outside like they do in miss. so i am an oddity anyway. and i can't garden out back as that's where my big dogs live so everything i do is out front up close and personal. everywhere i go people say "i know you. you're that flower lady."


so i am already laughing at myself about the kiddie pool, milk jugs and soda bottles that are going to be everywhere. i wish us both good luck. and the solstice thing..............the 20th of jan.? i thought the solstice came in late fall sometime? and just consider this.............what would you use to cover a kiddie pool?

Hi Mamajack, I'll aswer your questions one by one.

First off, for the curious, Poojer was my brother's name for me when we were very young. Nearly 50 years later he still calls me Pooje.

now that i have you i need some help with semantics. is "winter sowing" ever done directly on dirt?

Not by the method I've written about. Direct sowing can be risky. Seeds gets washed out in downpours, birds, bugs and critters can eat them, they can be exposed to too much wind and desiccate, you can accidently dig them up when prepping a bed, and finally, it can be hard to identify your seedlings from the weed seedlings. Sowing in a WS vented container protects the seeds, thus more of them survive winter to germinate at their own right time come spring. The germination rates can be shockingly high.

or in open pots that are brought inside when temps drop?

No. Never. I totally discourage any form of coddling. This only weakens seedlings after germination--once the seeds are outside they're dormant..the purpose of the method is to allow the seeds to experience the same climate as those naturally sown. The containers are protective but that's the only difference.

or is "winter sowing" a technique using only covered containers that allow for drainage and entry of rainfall? i thought "WS" was a technique or method using covered containers.

Never covered with a closed lid. Air can easily superheat inside--the seeds literally cook. It's no good. The vents work two ways--they allow melting snow and rain to moisten the soil and they allow heated air to vent away. The heat venting is vital for success.

i have direct sowed wildflowers in the fall every year but if it doesn't rain there are no flowers. so to me i think of "WS" as a method to contain and control seed environment but also allowing the seed to experience natural conditions.

Yes, the containers are protective but that is all they are. If you have a dry climate you might try selecting plants that are good for xeriscaping.

I have links to assorted seed lists on this page:
http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/Seed_Lists.html

The Yavapai link has some great lists!

i will check out the information on the links you sent.

As I've said before--WS is a springboard for self-learning--you channel the info for waht you need and it seems to absorb without you knowing it.

so i am already laughing at myself about the kiddie pool, milk jugs and soda bottles that are going to be everywhere.

Only if you want--I have some old picnic tables and I use the space around the dogwood in the hosta ring. Everyone makes their own spaces--you learn my your comfort level more than anything else.

i wish us both good luck. and the solstice thing..............the 20th of jan.?

Dec 21st. There is a Winter Sowing Solstice Sowing Ceremony too ;-)
http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/Solstice_Celebration.html


i thought the solstice came in late fall sometime?

At it's very end!

and just consider this.............what would you use to cover a kiddie pool?

I didn't. They're so large that they hold loads and loads of soil. I didn't have to worry about them drying out until the first hot days of spring. I had minimal weed seed germination because I usually have the garden cut back before the end of December and as such there's little seeds left to disperse on the wind and fall on the soil. My biggest problem with the kiddie pools was when my dog was younger--she LOVED to bury a bone in them. She's been trained out of that now, but if you have young dogs you might want to add a cover made from turkey or chicken wire to discourage them from digging in the soil.

Hope this helps,.

T



This message was edited Nov 9, 2006 8:33 PM

i am glad i don't need a cover for the kiddie pool. lol. now this is how i have it figured................this is a big pool..........about 5 plus feet diameter. and it's at least 12 inches deep.. i plan to fill it up to about 6 inches of soil. wet it down until the potting soil is saturated. then sow seeds all over using metal markers in the soil to label each type of seed. i plan on using scott's potting soil with phosphorus added to sow the seeds in. how does this sound? and how does mid. jan. sound to start. i think on dec. 21 i will sow the first four seeds in other containers. i want to really put some thought into that as i loved the idea of planting for those reasons.

o.k. .................so on the semantics.................if you direct sow or plant in pots that you bring in when temps drop you are not winter sowing, right? "winter sowing" is this thing whereby you use vented covered containers with drain holes outside the whole time. the reason i am going on and on about this is someone told me that they had winter sowed for years but this was how they did it. it's just a word thing with me and just wanted to be clear on that. so when the gardening world talks about winter sowing it is thru this aforementioned method, right?

i checked the seed lists and i see that agastache is not recommended for winter sowing. why is that?

thank you for all of your help and information.

i am glad i don't need a cover for the kiddie pool. lol. now this is how i have it figured................this is a big pool..........about 5 plus feet diameter. and it's at least 12 inches deep.. i plan to fill it up to about 6 inches of soil. wet it down until the potting soil is saturated. then sow seeds all over using metal markers in the soil to label each type of seed. i plan on using scott's potting soil with phosphorus added to sow the seeds in. how does this sound?

Sounds fine, you can use any type of growing medium for the seeds.
One of the picts in this link has a kiddie pool--check out my ever alert and always hard working guard dog ;-O
http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/Tomatoes.html

and how does mid. jan. sound to start. i think on dec. 21 i will sow the first four seeds in other containers. i want to really put some thought into that as i loved the idea of planting for those reasons.

That's what I do--in our family we celibrate many holidays and December is a very blury month of activity. I'll do my solstice sowing and then after the holiday crush is over I'll start my sowing. I WS up until the middle of March, then taper off on hardy annuals and perennials, and in early spring begin sowing the tender annuals--these past few years I've had tremendous luck with WSing coleus so early--the seeds have frozen and thawed and the seedlings even took a light frost. Quite delightful! Hubs loves coleus--calls them "the weird plants".

o.k. .................so on the semantics.................if you direct sow or plant in pots that you bring in when temps drop you are not winter sowing, right?

Literally, any seeds sown during winter months, inside or out, are winter sown, however, we're discussing a method I developed called "Winter Sowing" which is done in protective vented containers made from recycles. My method is what I took to Beltsville Md and presented to the National Agricultural Library, after which they asked me to become a full partner in the AgNIC Alliance. WS, as they also see it, is a great tool for learning--it's zero to low cost factor is key in its use in educational programs that are often cash-strapped. WinterSown.Org is an AgNIC Alliance website and I am a full partner.
Meet my partners: http://www.agnic.org/partners/index.html (I'm on page three)

"winter sowing" is this thing whereby you use vented covered containers with drain holes outside the whole time.

That's my method--I wrote an essay several years back called How to Winter Sow Seeds Outdoors, posted it on the GW Growing from Seed Forum and that's how it all started. Initialy it was extremely controversial because almost everyone was insisting that seeds needed a light set-up and had to be sown indoors. They were also telling me that the seeds would freeze and die. Well, to be honest, it seemed like many people had stopped thinking about what happens in the natural world and I spent a few years having to explain what I was seeing with my own eyes.

it's just a word thing with me and just wanted to be clear on that. so when the gardening world talks about winter sowing it is thru this aforementioned method, right?

I was having this discussion with the NAL this month--when you google the term "winter sowing" , you get dozens of hits related to sowing seeds in vented recycles before you come up with a commercial late autumn sowing of a field. Over the past few years the references for that method have moved farther and farther off the first page.

i checked the seed lists and i see that agastache is not recommended for winter sowing. why is that?

Which seed lists? What Agastache? It has has several epithets. Many Agastache can reseed like freaking weeds. Look at these links please, the first is a list, but the others indicate where the plant will grow as a perennial and reseed. If a plant reseeds where you are it is a candidate for winter sowing.

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/wtrsow/2002084541029568.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agastache
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/134/
http://www.snacc.mb.ca/projects/butterfly_garden/agastache.html
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=AGFO

thank you for all of your help and information.

Springboards away!

Trudi

This message was edited Nov 9, 2006 9:22 PM

trudi, i know you didn't show me all that stuff to impress me. but i am impressed. thank you for all of this information and i am sure in the cold of winter i will be inside studying these links. thank you ever so much.


oh yeah..........one more thing. i just got today 3 HUGE red buckeye seeds....they are over an inch in diameter maybe 2. should i put them in the fridge now? should i plant them and put pot inside plastic bag in the frig.? they came to me wrapped in wet paper towel inside a plastic bag. or can i just go ahead and sow them outside now. it's in the 70's at least. don't know how long this will last.

Thank you--I didn't paste those links in for impression--the partner pages are well worth bookmarking--you have a treasure trove of information there, it's an amazing set of websites which offer great reading and information. Obvisouly, I'm not much like my partners in size, but they've given me training and insight about spiders and hits and metatags and all the horrid stuff which makes sites work, which has helped my site to grow and keep pace. They are absolutely wonderful people and I adore them all.

Buckeyes should be sown into a moist medium asap--if they dry out, their chances of germinating go down sharply. You can sow them now, give the soil a drink, and put the pot into the back of the fridge until its much colder outside, and then move it out. My big problem with sowing any type of nut seed is hungry squirrels. Sow the seeds into containers made from milk jugs or two liter soda bottles--this way the little buggers can't reach down far enough with their paws to dig up the nut and they certainly are too small to go through the spouts. Make sure you tape them closed very well, duct tape all the way round seems to work well enough.

This message was edited Nov 9, 2006 10:26 PM

i will sow them first thing in the am. they are still moist but i will rewet the paper towel to be safe. you have been a wonderful resource person and if i get in trouble or have other questions i will let you know. i am proud for you............you have had some amazing accomplishments. thanks. barb

Hi mamajack,
Will let you know when the seeds arrive.

Poojer, I just wanted to personally thank you for all the help and advice. Thank you for those links too... got them book marked... I really liked reading about the kiddie pool experience you had. We have a couple kiddie pools at our church, I think I will bring them home and try that method too... They already have drain holes in them. We use them to put ice in and our food that needs to stay chilled when we have our gatherings...
Question
I know you said it didn't matter about the soil you use, but what do you personally use? and do you add anything to you soil?

Connie

good question connie. i hope you get the seeds tomorrow.

Hi Connie,

The only soil I don't use is that which comes from the dollar stores--the quality can be inconsistent and they often have lots of weed seeds too. Pound for pound, it also pencils out as one of the most expensive soils too.

For me, I'm a penny-pincher and where I live the absolutely cheapest is the 3cu.ft bag of Pro-Mix, I buy it at a local nursery where I get a discount because I belong to their shopper's club. You need to shop around and buy large LARGE bags, for some people, expecially if they're tiny or aren't strong as amazons, they will have to purchase smaller bags which ultimately cost more per pound.

A few years back I was able to get a pallet of miracle grow rose soil--they were closing out on that item and I think I paid less than a dollar a bag--so, always keep your eye open for bargains because you can get some great deals that way.

Thanks Poojer,
My dh bought me 3 giant bags of Miracle-Gro for gardens and flowers, and you are right I can't lift them, but he can lol so he will be helping me in that dept. lol

So you don't mix anything in with your soil, like say Perlite or Vermiculite, I couldn't find the thread I had read where the person mixes one or the other with their soil for WSing...

Thanks, Connie

No. I don't mix anything--that's extra money and extra work. Think about the soil outside your house, that doesn't have perlite or vermiculite mixed into it and plants grow just fine in it. Really truly--start thinking about what Mom Nature does and follow the path--it's usually the very cheapest way too ;-)

Some people are so engrained by the various "have to's" of indoor germination that they can't let go of the cost and care factor.

T

Makes sense to me :o)
Thanks so much Trudi, and thanks for your patience.
Your a gem "keep sparkling"

Connie

Thank you--it's late at night and I'm almost done prepping for a course I'm teaching tomorrow at a lovely arboretum in the next county, When Hubs and I were dating--eons ago--this arboretum was one of our favorite places to go for a walk.
http://www.bayardcuttingarboretum.com/Pages/news.htm#Anchor-33869

poojer, i have one more question...................why do we use covers on the containers? what is the definitive answer as we all know that seeds in nature don't have covers? and you said my large kiddie pool didn't need a cover because the soil was deep enough to hold the moisture in. so is it to help keep moisture in?

No. The main purpose is protective, to keep the seeds in their place. The lids, to a degree, do also protect the soil-surface from drying winds--there is some air movement inside and that is a good thing because in a stagnant environment damp-off would prevail. The vents allow a flow of air in and out, this is vitally important.

With lids:

The seeds can't be washed out of the soil by a downpour.
Weed seeds can't be washed in.
The soil surface is protected from practically all wind-carried seeds.
Birds, critters and bugs can't get to the seeds.

In my garden (MY garden) there is little risk of windblown seeds because I usually have any plants with aerial-born seeds cut back be early winter, and there is a high fence on all sides. Windblown seeds are a rarity. Kiddie pool containers do very well here. Here is HERE to me, my garden, my environment. You know your garden and environment better than I, the method is meant to be flexible to adapt to the user's needs and environment.

If you want to cover your kiddie pool planters then do so--you can make a rigid supporting structure with pvc pipe or similar and drive the ends into the soil of the pool, cover the support with taught plastic sheeting and then put in some slits with a kitchen knife. Add an inch long slit every six square inches. As the season progresses observe the soil and if you need more slits add them, if you think there are too many then tape some over. Dry soil looks like dry chocolate cake mix, moist soil looks like brownie batter before it goes into the pan. Use your eyes and make appropriate adjustments as needed.

HTH,

T

Addendum ~ I thought I had long ago made an FAQ about why the containers are covered and why those covers have vents. I've written a LOT of garden FAQs and this one may be "lost in the sauce" (or I'm am having a pre-senior moment) and cannot find it. So, in response, I made a site page to address these questions. It is called "Vented Covers". Here is the link:
http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/Vented_Covers.html





This message was edited Nov 12, 2006 7:19 AM

I have a question that may have been addressed before, but I looked over a lot of the posts and if it has been ,I missed it. After the seeds germinate, do you remove the cover? I noticed some of the containers had only a one or two inch high plastic lid. It seems that the seedlings would reach the top of the lid very quickly. If they were kept moist, would the cold hurt them? Lou

I leave the covers on but do increase the vent size. If you take the cover off you expose the soil surface to more drying wind and predation by insects or birds. The seedlings germinate in early spring--it's still quite cool at night and so the plants send much of their energy in developing their roots instead of making top growth. The seedlings, initially, don't put on much top growth. When you transplant they are quite small--most of mine hardly have their first set of true leaves when I get them into the ground. The root systems are a visual stunner. In all the page links below you will see very small seedlings going into the ground.

This page gives a good idea of the early transplanting:
http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/Transplanting_Tomatoes.html

This page has hunk-o-seedlings:
http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/Hunk-o-Seedlings.html

This page has progression:
http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/Life_of_a_Poppy_Bed.html

WS Eye Candy Brain Break:

I occasionally need a brain break from reality and go to arboretums and gardens for a walk. Hubs says this is a busman's holiday--he could be right.

We took a June walk at NY Botanical Garden and I snapped some picts at their rose garden. I uploaded them on Sunday:
http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/Roses_We_Love.html

o.k. i am a like a little kid........... watch me. watch me. did i do this right?

this is what i did. i took a plastic gallon pickle jug and cut it in half leaving about 6-7 inches of jug on the bottom. i filled that with dirt and sowed my seeds . i punched 3 holes in the bottom and 3 holes in the lid.........the holes are about a quarter inch diameter. taped it with duct tape and put it in the refrig. till it gets cold outside................this if for the 3 red buckeye seeds. whatcha think? or should i have soaked those seeds till the outer seed coating softened or nicked them or anything else? and will the dirt get dry in the refrig.? i am so sorry for the elementary questions.

Sounds great. I would have skipped punching holes in the top and just chucked out the cap. You probably could have put in more than three seeds too--but I am a notorious seed crammer--if a flat doesn't look like moss when it sprouts I've sown too little.

But that's me.

You don't need to soak the seeds--they'll get moistened by sitting in that damp soil.

Will it get dirt in the fridge? Well, I don't know, that's up to you. Put it on a plate or wrap the bottom with foil or leave it as is--if it's soggy it's gonna drip and drain. If you put it in the fridge before it's done dripping and draining you can expect some mess. You have to be reasonable and thoughtful. I'm up here on Long Island and I'm not cleaning your fridge, I gotta draw the line somewhere, lol.

The beauty of WS is that you tailor the method to your own needs and comfort level. You make the containers as YOU like, you sow how many seeds YOU like, you plan and plant YOUR garden as YOU like.

Winter Sowing is all about doing it your way, your way will always be the best way for you.

On Saturday, when I taught at the arboretum, I stressed that I like an interactive group. So, as I talk, I'm taking questions as I go along. I had some people apologize for asking a lot of questions and I said "No, that's fine, that's good, because if one person is asking about something, a dozen more are wanting to know about it too."

T

poojer, I sent you a d-mail,

waiting for your reply.

Thanks, Connie

poojer these seeds are all about 2 inches at their widest point. three was all i could fit as i am an optimist in that i just have to believe they will all germinate. hahahaha but see here's my texas problem. it is 70 degrees here in the daytime. i just want to leave them outside to see if they will go ahead and germinate NOW. but then how long will it be 70. maybe until this fri...............but maybe jan. and if it's jan. i will be so mad at myself for not doing it now. how do i get over this? just commit to waiting until i am fairly certain we might get at least a month of really cold temps before putting them out?

I guess I've been subconsciously distinguishing between the sowing in vented containers etc method and "other" methods of sowing seeds in winter.... I either write "wintersowing," all one word, or abbreviate it as WS when I'm talking about the methods at wintersown.org... otherwise I've used "winter sowing" or more frequently "direct sowing in winter" when I don't mean using the containers. I didn't really think about it until I read Trudi's post on the definitions. We'll just have to make the distinction clear when posting in this forum so it's obvious which sort of sowing in winter we're talking about... I know most of this forum deals with the wintersown.org method, but they we get into discussions of direct sowing poppy seeds on top of snow.... :-)

I did want to add one thing about potting mixes... I've been adding polymer moisture crystals to my WS mix, according to the package directions (it doesn't take much). That does add a little to the cost, but it also makes it much more convenient for me when a spell of hot weather in spring starts drying out my containers... with the moisture crystals and the lids, I may still have to water when there's no rain, but only every 2 or 3 days. It's a good compromise for me... we're already babying the seeds more than mother nature would by providing the shelter of the containers and the nice potting mix.

LOL, I think my jar of moisture crystals and my favorite hand-digging tool are the two things I can no longer garden without!

BTW, the crystals are less costly at www.watersorb.com, especially if you go in with somebody (or order a several year supply) for 10 pounds of them.

I'm afraid I don't have any additional advice on WS in Texas... but I thought the polymer crystals might be a good thing to consider.

Use deeper containers that hold more moisture and place them in a location that does not get direct overhead sun at midday.

Trudi and mamajack: When sowing my milk jugs, although I did not use the cap, I did cut small slits or poke small holes around the top with an ice pick or small knife. I think that makes it easier to enlarge holes in the spring when the weather warms up. It's much harder to cut the slits in a container full of seedlings if there's no existing starting point. I plan to do the same this year.

Karen

Sounds good too--everyone finds their own way and shares great tips.

Usually, with milk jugs and soda bottles, the top, because of it's shape, acts as a natural flu and funnels the warm air out rapidly. I've heard from winter sowers who put notches in the "shoulders of their milkjugs, keeping the cap on, but them later tossing away the cap after germination. All these variations work very well--everyone has their own comfort zone and their own personal preferences but the results are the same--the warm air is vented and the vents allow water to seep inside.

My WS containers go under a bench on the deck so they get a little shade... but I really don't have any location that doesn't get direct sun, LOL. If containers drying out are an issue for you, the moisture crystals may be helpful. You're right that deeper containers help also, but I successfully start a lot of annuals in little salad bar type takeout containers this way with about an inch or two of potting mix... They get several sets of true leaves, and when the weather is mild enough that I've taken the lids off the containers, I pot them up into a flat of sheet pots (those nursery type 6-packs), clump-transplanting just as I do with indoor seedlings. I tried deeper containers and the "hunk-o-seedlings" transplant method last year, but for me it just works better if I grow them on for a bit in the cell packs before planting them out.

As you said, everyone finds a way that works for them!