Bulb Chipping, scaling, and twin-scaling

I read in my new book Plant Propagation by the American Horticultural Society, that bulbs can be reproduced using several methods. I was most interested in the chipping method.

Here is a great site with photos:
http://www.judyssnowdrops.co.uk/Propagation/Twin-Scaling/twin-scaling.htm

and here is another:
http://www.rhs.org.uk/learning/publications/pubs/garden_98-00/pubs_journals_garden_0899_bulbslice2.asp

I am especially interested in trying this with Lycoris species. Here is a short article some results specifically testing lycoris.
http://www.actahort.org/books/517/517_11.htm

Anyone have experience trying this method? Any tips?... warnings?

This message was edited Aug 29, 2006 7:49 PM

Taylor--
2nd link did not work for me.

I will be attempting the 3rd method for sure with various Zephyranthes, Cooperias, Habranthus, and Rhodophiala bifada this fall and definitely know people with whom it has been a successful method for these species.

I've got a Schoenocalulon species that I'm going to try something on this winter but haven't decided what method yet.

The third method I'm not scared to try just don't know what I'd want to use it on yet.

These method's are also in Ken Druse's book Making More Plants so I'm familiar with them--the first one just seems easier to me. I'm not doing any Lycoris though, so I don't know how helpful this will be, it's just my 2 cents worth.
Debbie

Hi Deb!
I tried to go back in and edit that link for you, so it will work. I hope I fixed it.

You mention the third method, but I'm not sure I know which method you are referring to.
Are you referring to the scooping method or twin-scaling?...?
-T

Taylor--
I was refering to the last link--the 2nd still doesn't work for me. But the other two probably got the stuff covered..
Which lycoris are you lusting for more of? lol
Deb

Deb-
I have the red lycoris radiata, pink lycoris squamigera, and a few of the pink, with blue streaks and tips Lycoris Sprengeri. I also have a white one pending trade.

I really, really want more of the sprengeri & white/cream/yellow versions. But, honestly, I'd just love more of all of them. I have ½ an acre, so I think a few thousand would do me, lol...

I think the ones coming in trade would be best to try, since their clock will already be set back one to two years, anyway, so nothing to lose timewise/bloomwise.

I've just been critically evaluating our harsh Texas summers(especially this year, with our second year in a row, of drought, and having record days over 100 this summer) and decided to pay really close attention to the things that still held up, and did well.-- (Not a very long list, lol...) I'm tired of spending so much money on beautiful perennials in Spring, and then having them decline and die in August, as if they were annuals. I really want to try to focus my attention on things that truly do well here, and make/get more of them.(not just bulbs, but other stuff, too.)

Those lycoris can take just about anything dished out at them, and still keep going. They are so easy and carefree, that I cannot imagine anyone not wanting a few dozen of them here and there in the garden.

Lycoris are easy to grow, easy to ship, tough and even non-gardeners can grow them. They are hardy from a whopping zones 5-10 and can take alkaline or acidic soil. They just seem like the perfect little thing to have.

My rain lilies(small & large pink, Z. candida, H. texanus, and 'sunset' strain from Yuccado nursery) are the same way, but at least most of them seed well. A few don't seed well, so I'd love to "chip" them, and have more.

While I'm at it, I might even try a crinum. Ü

There are so many southern heirloom bulbs(including the blood lily and byzantine glads) that there never seem to be enough of. Attempting to buy them (if you can even find them) will cost you anywhere from $7 to $15 per bulb. I'm just really excited about the prospect of learning how to multiply each mother bulb by an increase of 5 to even 7 fold. That third link is very encouraging!
-T

I hear you Taylor--its time we just concentrate on what will do well and not let our eyes get too big in the spring when everything looks good.

I agree with trying on the new bulbs we get that are already in a completely dormant state. I think we are bound to have more luck/success that way.

By the way, the solanum seaforthiana seeds you were kind enough to share a couple of years ago are just doing magnificiently as huge vines. I love that climber, it's so "orderly" compared to things that feel they need to take over the planet. How does clematis pitcheri and alamo vine do for you up there?

Pitcheri does wonderfully. I love that daintly little climber. I always have extras, too, lol...

So glad to hear they did well for you. That is always nice to hear. Ü

I don't think I've tried the alamo vine, but am familiar with it...

Well, Taylor--I guess we are in this little "experiment" together! LOL

I'm going to get serious about this in the next few weeks as its cooling down a bit (that's a 'relative' term down here).
Debbie

I'd love to hear how it goes for you.

I just checked on my lily scales today, and no sign of mold. That's a good thing. Ü

I have some lycoris coming in the mail soon, and plan on trying it with those, also.
...need to find some sulfur powder before then...
-T

I'm slicing into a lycoris radiata tomorrow night to get my feet wet Taylor. If it hasn't rotted in a couple of weeks in the humidity capital of the nation, I'm gonna get brave and try a crinum. lol

Happy chipping!
And, good luck.

My lily scales and mother bulb are still fungus free. Ü
-T

Hi

Good luck on the chipping! I'll be watching this thread, please keep us posted on how it goes! If it works I would love to use it on my rain lilies and crinum (and of course the ones I don't have that I'm lusting over)

I figure if it works in your humidity, it will work in ours, Southwest GA is disgustingly humid right now, too

plantnutga

plantnutga-
I'm doing mine in indoor conditions, so humidity not really a factor. I'll continue to try these through the winter in the greenhouse, but again, it will be in a controlled environment.

I might be more apt to try them outside, once I get the hang of it, but for right now, all indoors.
-T

I'm doing it inside too but humidity is ever present in southeast Texas in or outside.
LOL Just a fact of life down here.

We've got lots of humidity here although my LH might protest that much of it in this house is caused by hot air of a different kind

LOL

We've got lots of humidity here although my LH might protest that much of it in this house is caused by hot air of a different kind

LOL

Well, I finally searched Lowes for sulfur powder and they said they didn't carry it, anymore...

I went further down the road and bought some at the feed store, plus a little bottle of concentrated fungicide, to use as a soak.

While this was on my mind, I checked on my lily scales. I decided to plant the mother bulb up separately, and put the scales in a clear container(and then back into a dark paper bag).

The scales all looked great. Only one had signs of turning brown, so chunked it, into the trash.

The others looked great, and most all had root nubbies starting. And, two actually had roots. One of those two had a LOT of roots.
Yay! It is working. Ü

I tried to take a picture, but wouldn't you know it...my camera battery had gone dead...good grief.
-Taylor

Wow! Congrats on the success...what brand of concentrated fungicide did you get? Did you actually use it or just have it in case?

Just in case.

I haven't used it, yet. I just bought it for my lycoris that are expected in the mail soon...I think it was fertilome brand...it said systemic, which is what the book recommended.

I was going to use the sulfur powder on the lily chips, but they didn't need it...
-T

Found out something quite by accident a few hours ago. You can take soil sulphur (I used Epsoma because I had it), put it into a burlap bag, apply hammer to ouside and it becomes a powder. Had to quickly acidify some soil in a pot for a gift plant that simply wasn't going to wait. Its pure sulphur, no additives. I got a degree in that sort of thing and thought it would work on the bulb chipping too.

So does sulfur acidify, just like ammonium sulfate?...I wonder if it could harm seedlings...

I was going to dust some seeds that tend to be really sensitive to damping off...

I just looked up the ammonium sulfate info and it said

Sulfur is organic and will do it gradually not suddenly. Kinda like blood meal. I use it around everything that needs acid conditions with no problems. If I put ammonium sulfate out it will kill my LA Iris--they don't like high nitrogen. I would be scared to use that on anything, actually.

Well, guess what? I emptied my camera card today, and that picture actually was on there!
It is very exposed so kinda hard to see, but if you look to the middle-left, you will see a chip with multiple roots on it. If you look very closely you might see others with root starts.
(I discarded the brown one, off to the side, in the picture)
-T

wow--is that vermiculite pieces on there?

hooray! there is hope yet for the bulbs I can't afford to buy lots of

Doesn't work on corms, though, does it?

T - how do you sterilize the coir/sand mix? I'm interested in your opinion...rather why it's yr favorite
mix for cuttings too. I'm still a rookie with the "making cuttings" science. I've been fairly successful with my
experiments so far...but still learning. I'm interested in the coir....I've seen it offered on Ebay and other locations. Does it come finely shredded but compressed into "bricks" ? Thanks! Lee

T - gladiolus or crocosmia are the first two corms that come to mind

Lee-
I can root almost anything in that higher line Wallyworld potting soil in the orange bags (name evades me) mixed 1/2 with seed germinating mix. And I throw a little organic plant food in there if its going to stay in the container very long that its rooted in. I have never had to use vermiculite, perlite, sand, or any of those products. And its a good thing too--because I wouldn't have the time. I don't cover any plants rooting with plastic bags either--we got quite enough humidity in the air around here. I just don't attempt to root in July and August. Now and early spring is when I do all my rooting. Now I do use one rather specialized rooting hormone for some plants; but only if its a plant I have trouble with, a valuable plant, or a more "woody" cutting such as a shrub. And I consider myself somewhat a better propagator than a grower.
Debbie

Debbie

you are looking more talented every day! We need to talk about L iris later, but as for the propagation- which hormone, and do you have trouble with stuff damping off?

plantnutga

I don't have a damping off problem ever but I NEVER cover anything...we live in the humidity capital of the world. I don't cover seeds I'm germinating or rootings. I fly in the face of alot of things people will suggest but I don't really care; it's not as hard as a lot of folks lead you to believe it is. I also don't "fret" over things--I do it, keep them moist, but don't "obsess" over them out there on the back porch.

I am going to get some vermiculite for this project and a plastic bag--but this is not normal germinating or propogating either, in my opinion. This is getting a lot of bulbs quickly--more quickly than normal offsets. The way I see it. And a lot of bulbs (like my oxbloods) are sterile...so the only choices you have (the way I see it) is wait for offsets (and I'm probably not going to live forever--lol) or try this method. I will also do it inside--after all, gotta have something to do when its pouring down rain, no?

If I use a rooting hormone, I use dip n' grow from Charley's Greenhouse. That's my current favorite--lol. They got a couple others I've used too. I generally just keep one product on hand and when its gone I might try something new. I like this stuff though, so I will probably stick with it.

This is just my opinion and thoughts on the subject--and I do realize many folks will disagree with me.
Debbie

Thanks for the tip Debbie! I've been experimenting ,using a good quality potting soil and mixing in some perlite - also a mix of perlite with peat.
your mix sounds much simpler. I too haven't been covering,....only fine misting each day, keeping the cuttings in a shaded area - beneath a 20' x 40' shade screen in my growing area - interesting that you haven't
attempted any rooting during the hottest time - I was concerned that maybe I waited too late to start cuttings with things cooling down - so now I'm pleased to think I should be now beginning to do more!
I've still a lot to learn about mixing solutions of IBA for particular plants. I've been using Schultz's powder ( .1% IBA) on the majority but I haven't really taken on anything tough yet.
Just trying to familiarize myself with the basic particulars necessary for all rootings. In the past, I have been successful using air layers on various things like Cornus florida (Dogwood), Solanum rantonnetii(Blue Potato Bush)and even a Sweet Bay Magnolia(Magnolia virginiana) but rooting cuttings is a different thing than layering. Been having fun learning! Thanks again! Lee

I'm just now starting to THINK about rooting---lol

Have started a lot of seeds and been planting about a zillion bulbs.....or at least it feels like its been a zillion. I don't think they make enough aleve on the plant for me to make it thru Oct--lol

I didn't realize that Oxblood lilies were sterile

I have some that were sold to me on eBay as TX rainlilies, I'm pretty sure that's what they are but when they bloom this year will be looking for an ID

I would LOVE to see them multiply

Most oxbloods (99%) are sterile triploids only the wild species of South America set seeds (but don't make offsets). The ones in Texas produce offsets very quickly, in my gardens. Oxbloods are Rhodophiala bifida (genetically ID'd by Traub in 1953) but are originally from Brazil, Uraguay, and Argentina.

Most rainlillies are either Cooperi, Habranthus, or Zephyranthes species. And there are a large number of species of these--many of which are native to Texas and Northeastern Mexico too.

Oh, I'm a rain lily nut, Deb! Never ever met one I didn't like. I knew there were a lot of Texas/Mexico species but I haven't IDed this and am beginning to suspect that they may be Rhodophiala. They are a pretty dark red/copper color.

I wish I had kept track of what town in TX they came from but alas, I was neglectful. I counted on my memory. HAH!

got a picture? I can probably ID it. I have a lot of rain lillies too.

I'll take a pic when it blooms

I havent forgotten to include you in my ditch-diving, I need someone to protect me from

***scarey music***

Cher

lol--you gotta admit she is a survivor

Speaking of Rhodophialia....Debbie,... did you see the Gardening Section E in the Houston Chronicle today?
There's an article about these very beauties - Oxblood, Rain Lilies, Lycoris