Need Info on How to Save Seeds From Beautiful New Zinnia!!!

Hello To All,
Last year, I purchased and planted a pack of pink hybrid zinnia seeds. This year one of the seeds that had dropped came up, and it produced, I think, the most beautiful zinnias that I have ever seen. As you can see, half of the flower is cream and circled all around with pink.
I wrote to a seed company, and they told me that the seeds from this flower must be planted at least two more times to see if the zinnia was going to stay true. If so, they would be interested in it.

I have no idea how to even start preserving these seeds. I think when the flower dies, I take it, separate the seeds, and spread them out to dry.

Can I pick the flowers when they have not turned brown yet and allow them to dry out inside?
Should I make sure I gather from every flower.
What effect would a gold zinnia growing close by have on the one that I want to save?

I would hate to know that, at this time, I have a chance to preserve and save a beautiful new zinnia, and it would never come to be because of my lack of knowledge. I would really appreciate any help that I can from any of you.

Thanks,

Diane

I don't know too much about when to gather seeds from zinnias, but I'll take on a couple of your other questions. First, I would gather from every flower--that way you have the most seeds possible so if there are any accidents along the way to growing them next year you'll improve your odds of having some plants make it. The gold zinnia may cross-pollinate with your pink one and reduce your chances of getting the color you want from the seeds (although as you read the rest of my post, I don't know if your chances of getting that color to come true are very good anyway), but if they're both blooming now then the damage has already been done so I don't think it'll help much to move it now.

I don't want to discourage you from trying to propagate this beauty, but hybrid plants very rarely come true from seed--the vast majority of hybrids don't (probably the reason the zinnia seeds were sold as a hybrid mix is because it's too hard to control the colors that come out). Still definitely worth trying on the off chance that they do come true, but I didn't want you to get your hopes up too much and then be disappointed if they don't. I know zinnia's are annuals, but I wonder if you could take cuttings from the plants you like and start them indoors over the winter? That way at least you could have some more of the pretty color for yourself but it won't help with getting seeds for the seed company. I don't know if cuttings will work though, it depends on if zinnias are true annuals that are meant to die in a year, or if they're just annuals because they would need really warm winter temperatures to survive, and I don't know enough about them to be able to answer that.

Diane,

That's a beautiful specimen. Over the years I have seen a lot of zinnias. I have seen cream colored zinnias before that aged to pink or coral, but none quite as attractively as yours.

Years ago, during the 80's, I was an amateur zinnia breeder in Fort Worth. This year I resumed that hobby here in Maine.

I notice an anther floret at the top center of your photo and a few others that aren't quite as visible. When I get a good "find" like yours, I manually self the flowers with all the anthers that appear on the plant. Since you are in Mississipi, you have a significant amount of growing season to go. Here in Maine, fall is in the air.

With thorough manual self pollination, you could get upwards of a hundred seed on a flower that size and there will be several more flowers on side branches. If the plant stays healthy you could get several hundred viable seed -- enough to fill your garden with the progeny of that zinnia next year.

That next generation will probably exhibit quite a variety of flowers, some surprisingly different from the seed parent. Some of those flowers will probably be similar to your lucky find and some may be even better. As a breeder, I would ruthlessly "rogue" that crop by pulling all of the poorer speciments and toss them on the compost pile. I usually discard about 80% of my zinnias as soon as the first bloom appears. That makes more room for the better candidates.

Here in Maine, I have to allow the seed heads to mature until they are brown, although the seed are capable of germinating while the head is still "green". Decades ago in our Fort Worth garden, I could get two or even three generations of zinnias per year. So, earlier in the year, I could plant "green" seeds to get an earlier start on the next generation.

I don't know if you could get in a generation between now and your frost in Mississipi. You might experiment by planting a few "green" seed now for an attempt at a second generation. But let most of your seed mature to a fully brown flower head and save those seeds for planting next year. And use all the pollen that appears to self your specimen.

MM

That's a gorgeous bloom!

MM gave you a bunch of great advice, especially about using the plant's own pollen to self-pollinate as many of the flowers as possible by hand, which will reduce cross-pollination from other plants like your nearby gold one.

ecrane, your cautionary note isn't unwarrened... but I think her plant is already 1 seed generation out from the original hybrid, so I'd say she's got a great chance of getting something wonderful from self-pollinated seeds.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this works out for you, Diane! Very cool. :-)

There will be quite a few 'surprises' for several years yet...even if there were no pollination from an outside source. It's just what's already in the genes. That part can't be helped.

You got great advice about culling out anything that isn't part of your plan. Be ruthless. The pollen is insect born, not wind borne, so everything that is not the correct form in the vicinity has the potential of crossing back.

Hand pollination will help that situation. I usually bag any blossoms that I don't want the insects messing with, but have never done zinnias. MaineMan will have to weigh in on whether this is desireable.

Breeding plants is a fun hobby, and with just a little patience and care, you could be rewarded with something that no one else has.

I've never bagged my hand-pollinated zinnia blooms, because the bags could restrict airflow and set up an environment conducive to mildew, bacterial blight, or some other zinnia disease. I try to pollinate early in the morning, to beat the bees to the new pollen and to the receptive petal stigmas. A pollinated stigma becomes unreceptive in about a day and dies within about three days.

I may experiment with some sort of bagging in the future to keep the insects and hummingbirds from interfering. I would want the paper or cloth of the bag to be very "open" to air and light. It could even be some kind of netting.

Right now I'm trying to devise an improvement over my old labelling technique. For years I used labels made from pieces of Twist-Ems® twist ties http://twistems.com/pages/garden.html stapled to a label piece cut from a 3x5 card. I wrote on those with soft pencil. (I have yet to find a marker that doesn't fade in sunlight and rain.) I used the twist tie to attach the label to the stem of the flowerhead. I wrote on those labels a shorthand description of the female (F) flower and the male (M) flower or flowers. That made the labels about 1"x2" to 1½"x3", which could be a bit ungainly and even catch the wind.

This year I am thinking of attaching a small numeric or alphanumeric code to the stem, and recording the codes with their associated descriptions in a notebook. That way my labels can be a fraction of an inch in size and hopefully impose a negligible burden on the flower stem, and be much easier to make as well.

MM

This message was edited Aug 31, 2006 2:01 PM

What a beautiful zinnia!

I use tulle bags like you buy for wedding party favors. There are several sizes available and they're cheap. Just don't use the little drawstring to close the bag...once it gets rained on, it's impossible to untie. Wal-mart sells them, as do several craft and hobby stores.

I just take a twist tie and scrunch a corner till the bottom of the bag is closed enough and then twist it in...easy to un-do, and you can reuse your bags.

I read on another thread here that Zinnias are actually tender perennials. I've been searching for it but can't find it. :-(

If it is indeed a tender perennial, you could make cuttings and keep it going if you have the right conditions.

Here is a statement of them being perennial:
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9078392/zinnia

Also, a *true* annual lives for one season only, blooming and setting seeds *once*, and then dying. That is, it comes into a season of flowering at the end of its growing season. Since Zinnia elegans produces flowers and seeds all season long and at the same time from early on, it would seem to be a tender perennial.

Robert.


This message was edited Sep 23, 2006 11:56 PM

Goulabelle,
I absolutely love your Zinnia, it is a beauty! Zinnias have always been one of my favorites in the flower garden.
Let me know if you ever want to share a few seeds. I would be more that happy to let you know what color it blooms.

Maineman...I know this will seem like a really dumb question to you... but how does one do the manual self pollination? My grandmother who has been gone for many years now, used to cross pollinate her iris.
Could you possible direct me to the proper place to read more information of doing this process.
Jane

Jane,

"...how does one do the manual self pollination?"

Basically you just use tweezers or a similar thing to grasp the little yellow pollen florets from the center of a zinnia flower and you rub them on the stigmas of a zinnia flower. The stigmas are little "forked tongue" yellow tendrils that are located at the base of each zinnia petal. They turn dark and shrivelled a few days after they are pollinated. If they are still yellow, they are probably still receptive.

For self pollination, you use the pollen florets on zinnia flowers that appear on the same plant. For cross pollination, you use the pollen from one zinnia plant on the stigmas of a different zinnia plant. Right offhand, I don't know of a good source that shows pictures of this process for zinnias. If I find something, I will post a link to it.

Fresh pollen florets appear each morning, and you need to beat the bees to them, because they will get most of the pollen from a floret. A few pollen grains remain in the fine bristles of a floret after a bee visit, but it's better to be there first, or to "bag" your zinnia flowers with something like the tulle bags that Melody described above, to give yourself exclusive access to the pollen and the stigmas.

I use tweezers with slanted pointed tips, or the Twissors http://www.westons.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Twissor_23072.html with slanted tips that are a hybrid between tweezers and scissors. (I'm sure there us a US source that, but the UK source was the first one I found). I also use fine curved tip Kelly forceps http://www.allheart.com/pm501.html on occasions. Anything that gives you good control over the pollen floret will do. If you are very nimble with your fingers, you could probably do it without any special grasping device.

MM