What grows that "shouldn't"

Cannas, which we all know are "zone 8" but we all grow them. This miniture 'Ingeborg' has buds, and the recent frost have just missed it due to a nearby tree.

For years, I have tried and failed or tried with moderate to poor success to grow this nasturtium. It vines, it's annual, and has lobed leaves. It also is caviar to earwigs and slugs. If I forget to spray it with acephate one week, they can defoliate it overnight. Anyhow, It finally bloomed. It gets some frost protection from leaves above it, so its first flower, ironically, was the day of the first frost. Has anyone else tried this? Please don't say it was the easiest thing and you wonder what my problem is...

Tropaeolum peregrinum.

It's bud looks like a dragon wearing a pajama cap.

And finally.
The palm is still looking perky as of friday.
I wonder why DBG isn't growing this.

Perhaps you should tell DBG how well it grows for you in Clinton. They might consider it. It does indeed look very perky.

Nice to see you, B.
True, somehow you were convinced to grow a banana. How's it doing?
Leaf pile yet? I'm making mine tomorrow.

Nice to be back. The banana tree is still green. It obviously suffered a little frost while I was gone, but didn't get totally frosted. It is next to a hydrangea which is in the same condition. I have piled leaves and pine needles on it and will continue to pile more now that I am back. I am convinced I will have a banana tree there next year. It just seemed to settle peacefully in.
I still have bulbs and plants from DBG sale to plant, not to mention my garlic which should have gone in long ago. We are supposed to get rain or snow or something today, but perhaps I can get a little planted before it turns too ugly.

Nice! We've had a number of frosts (rain last night) but the banana stems seem to take that fine. I know that at 25 or 20 degrees they'll be mush, so they'll get protected today.

Gorgeous Brug you have, by the way, Paja. It must be quite happy.

I was thrilled when I came home to find the brug blooming. I accused my plant waterer of casting magic spells on it. I hope it is happy. I gave it as much sun as I could and lots and lots of water. Next I will feed it real well. I can tell you I am now hooked.
Today I piled more leaves and pine straw on the banana tree, the hydrangea and the pink lilies of the valley I planted near by and watered all well. I was going to plant some more lilies of the vally and some other bulbs when I hit another layer of landscape fabric about 4 inches down with gravel all over the top. Grrr. I know what I will be doing tomorrow -- removing yet more of each.
So far there is just a tad of green sticking out of the banana stem. When that finally goes, I will pour that magic potion you gave me on them. Spring should be even better than usual in 2007.

Here's to that!

In recent weeks I have been dropping into the RMG forum & have thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated the info & advice that has been offered. I have to hand it to you all for being innovative and willing to find ways to push zones.
I reside in the ever-fickle zone 7b (E of Seattle) - no real extremes here with the exception of extreme wet & occasional radical windstorms. I lost my 2 Brugs last year as I neglected to bring them inside - they were right outside the back door in a situation I had thought was fairly protected; wrong! I would like to try growing them from seed - my experience has been that many plants will do better if acclimated from a nascent state as compared with adopting them from the nursery.
My question is in regards to how long they take to germinate. I have had several previous failures. I now have a very nice warming mat & a 2-level portable growing unit which ought to make the process easier, as well as providing space for more seedlings. I simply must take the challenge & figure out how to do it successfully. Any germination tips? I will reread all of these posts & take notes...any further assistance is appreciated.

I think my brugs from seed were about two weeks from sowing to germination. I agree with you about the adaptation thing- studies have shown some pretty radical variations in plants adapting from seed. But I think that things also can benefit from starting-anew as cuttings. Some plants, brugs included, just seem to be nicer plants when they are young, so aging old things (once they start to perform less and less) ought to have cuttings taken and be composted. My theories are that it has much to do with roots, how they just get old and don't perform like a new root system entirely; they can start to wrap around eachother and girdle themselves. There is also the fact that a seedling and a cutting have grossly different root systems, so I'm sure a performance difference exists there, but don't know to what degree or how.

This fall, I've left an in-ground 18" tall brug outside on the south side, under a good pile of leaves, just for kicks.

If you don't have a source, my Pacific-Northwestern friend, and would like to try them from seeds, I have some seed from a strong pink hybrid, I think.

Germinating them: removing the cork (scarifying) does speed up germination. I've done that experiment. (by 25-50% in my tests) Many growers have told me that they like to be warm, but only slightly. One person said "like on top of a refrigerator." (I think that too hot of germination will rot them, perhaps. I bet your heat mats, although ideal for many annuals, were too hot for brug seed. I know that some I had over the light-ballast were too hot and never grew). Anyway, the best brug seedlings I've grown were under flourescent lights, keeping them covered (to maintain even moisture) until their little necks started to arch up, at which point I uncovered them (so that I did not have to slowly acclimate the seedlings to the less humid air if I had let them grow up under cover). You know what size pf pot works best for you to keep them moist and not allow them to dry out. I suggest a loose soilless mix (50% perlite added) to increase drainage and reduce damping-off. I found this pretty important. Then just treat them like any tomato. That won't be hard, with the resemblance they bear...
I hope that helps you some.

In order to have space for next year's seedling and this winter's seed experiments, I have to find a home for a bunch of palm tree seedlings that are not hardy enough for zone seven winters until they are four or five years old or so. If anyone wants some, I'd be happy to send some for postage some time.

Kenton

OK, I'm usually immune to zone denial syndrome, but I couldn't pass up the deal on Calochortus 'Symphony' at the B&B end of season sale, for my rock garden. Anyone know if the basket thingies they use for glads would work with Calochortus?

Basket thingies?

I know for a fact that two-notches-better-than-excellent drainage is necessary for Calochortus. They just can't tolerate summer moisture. I've killed enough to figure this out.

Calochortus are not exaclty zone denial, GreenJay, they are native.

Zone denial is infactios, GreenJ, so I hope you catch it!

Clematis cirrhosa 'Freckles' is evergreen and grows faster than I'd expect for any Clematis. Dear Lord, I want it to overwinter.

Here is it as of yesterday.

The pendant flowers, oh! I need to design a trellis so that a person can look up into these splendid things.

Bug's eye view.

OK Kenton - Do tell where you found Cl. 'Freckles'? I'm sure I can grow this in my area w/o a problem, but I've never seen it for sale. I have lots of Clematis but have room for lots more, particularly the evergreen type.
When did you plant it - how tall was it at that time & how much has it grown?
Today we are having cold but DRY conditions, at least until this mother-of-a-storm blows in. I bet this will be the last day to finish up transplanting & digging more holes for the bulbs & whatever I can find that's fun for next spring. I only wish that I had access to a truckload full of leaves/manure. Working M-F really gets in the way of finding gardening crews willing to dump leaves on my property, not to mention the language barrier: I must learn how to ask for the leaves in Vietnamese. Hard to mime that one!
Also - I would definately be interested in some seeds for the Brug that you mentioned. Have copied all the instructions & tips for starting from seed. If you still have, I'm game. If not, I'll wait...
If I can get my Banana to overwinter outside, I will truly feel as if I have accomplished a feat. It's not looking so happy the past 3 weeks...it will be another plant-minding adventure.

I've slobbered over UK books with it for ages, there are some places here and there offering regular C. cirrhosa, but I did find these folks have 'Freckles:'
http://www.gardenvines.com/catalog/clematis-cirrhosa-freckles-p-32.html

If it lives the winter, I'll be pressed even harder to find the "Landsdowne gem" (RED!) version.
It came from Brushwood Nursury last April in a 4" pot, I think.
(look closely and you can see how it was sunk in the little pot to harden off.) The silly thing had buds even then, it has grown so fast, I'm very pleased with it.
Definately needs a better trellis.

Katye, I think it would do brilliantly in your climate. Do you grow C. armandii?

And, perhaps in the Amendments thread, tell why you need to say "may I have your leaves" in vietnamese... I hope you get your fall gardening in while fall is still around!

What species of banana are you overwintering?

dude, Vietnamese landscaping crew. It's not colorado, it's the PNW..

OK kids, what would be a good climbing vine for a XX-xeric garden? smaller is OK.

(I was being facetious, dudette)
In CO you need to speak Spanish. At least Spanish is easier than Vietnamese.

Vine and small are not usually two words a person can put in one sentence, other than perhaps "Vines are not, as a whole, small."
Xeric vines:
(all are best in a xeric setting and are otherwise weedy)
Parthenocissus -common but colourful in autumn.
Vitis- same thing- there are ornamental types
Polygonum aubertii - will eat children
Humulus lupulus - children are not supposed to drink its products before 21
Campsis
Clematis terniflora (when established)
Wisteria floribunda -Xeric to a degree.

None of which are exotic in the least...

Spanish is easier than Vietnamese for people who aren't Vietnamese, I suppose.

I should have quantified small as: "will not eat a small house or garage"; "will eat children" adds some interesting options.

What about something that would twine gracefully on a 3' tall piece of driftwood? (Abduction of pesky children optional)

Still Xeric?

Yes, as always, xeric.

Found it! Brushwood has & I'm waiting for a reply as to whether I should plant now or wait until Spring.
Sure is popular in the UK! My Armandii met it's demise during a past winter. I want another, but then again, I want them all! Freckles is especially nice-looking & would cover a portion of the fence well.
Lansdowne Gem? Any others?
Fall. Fall is fleeting here. I think it would more appropriately be called Coldwet. Dry leaves are borderline fantasy here, most years, Which is why it becomes necessary to scour the neighbourhoods, looking for landscape crews in possession of leaves by the truckfull. And be multi-lingual.
The Banana is a musa basjoo; a pup from a friend's large one last June/July. Hers is fabulous, but resides in near-perfect conditions for our zone. Got my fingers crossed.

But then again Katye you live in the land of Jewelbox Gardens, where every backyard garden is featured in glossy color in some magazine, right?

I spend too much time looking at those beatiful photos this time of year, and go buy something like Calochortus 'Symphony' to fill the void.... LOL

Jewelbox gardens! That's good! Actually, I think that most of the landscaping is fairly mundane - but this could be said of many locations. I suppose the Jewelbox is easier to attain if one lives on a small lot. Having a gardening crew helps, too.
We have a longer growing season but the heat units don't build up (compost takes a lonnnng time), and we get to experience the joy of fungus & molds, etc...
If I could change one thing: it would rain at night.

...And be sunny all day, eh?
I'd plant the Clematis in spring so it had time to grow and harden off, for absolute sure. If a plant is winter-tender, plant in spring. If it's summer-tender, plant in fall. I have not seen 'Landsdowne Gem' outside of England. One day some nursury will import it to the rare-plant-dreary US.

Greenjay, plant a fake christmas tree. Wire branches- wrap them vine-style around your driftwood. Really, though, it isn't a thing that beckons a vine, so perhaps compliment it with some apache plume and Zauschneria?

It's a really BIG piece of driftwood. What about morning glories -- are there any drought-tolerant varieties of those?

Greenjay - I planted Grandpa Ott MG's a few years back. They reseeded themselves into many areas, including the gravel paths. They were not watered (except by our lovely rain) and grew well. You might try MG's, but I believe you'll need to supplement with extra H2O. I don't know if there is a vine that is drought tolerant. Campsis might be more so, but it would overwhelm the driftwood. What about something that scrambles instead of climbing? What does the driftwood look like - how big/tall?
Kenton - I could support sun everyday, but just plain dry works for me. I'm going to see what I can find out about getting Lansdowne Gem - there are 2 nursuries that I have given lots of business over the years; perhaps they might assist.

I took a photo of a cyprus at my place in Mississippi. You can't tell in this picture but it is right on the edge of a lake. It is red right now because that is the color they turn in Winter. I took a picture of it for Kenton, who hopes to grow them in CO. He can put this picture right next to the seed so it will know what it is supposed to become when it grows up. Actually, this one isn't all that georgeous in this photo. One of these days, I will try to get a better one.

Cyprus habitat. You can't see the cypruses very well but there are at least two in this photo. They are red but have shed quite a few leaves. Anyhow, the proximity to water is typical. Actually you probably, they often grow in the water. I think the ones at my place are Bald Cypruses, but I never really checked.
Here is the habitat you need to look for to plant your cypress in when you finally get it going. Definitely a zone pusher for Colorado.
They actually grow readily from seed. Most of the ones at my place fell into flower pots and beds at my Mother's house in New Orleans. She transplanted them to the farm because you can only use so many cypruses in one yard!

This message was edited Dec 9, 2006 10:39 PM

Aha, and I've got seed from a local specimen!
Thanks for the pictures, the latter is supreme.

Kenton, this one's for you: http://www.pennlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1164690621306440.xml?pennnews&coll=1

I wasn't so surprised by this, since it does happen around this area several times a year.

That is truly sad.
It's not that rare a tree, though. At that size, it is worth more, but you can pick a five or six foot tall one for $120. Heck, I got one at the plants sale at DBG when we got together (one gallon) for something like $15! If it is blue or not will be seen in a few years.
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/82319/index.html

I'm still having difficulty imagining someone actually enjoying something like that that they stole. I hope someone rats on the theif...

One thing is for sure - they will never escape the guilt. I hope that same guilt will weigh as much as the tree as it encircles their neck like a collar.
It's a clear example of the "what's yours is really mine", entitlement mentality.
Very sad.

I am not sure about the guilt. If it was teenagers staging a prank you are probably right, but there are some people who have no conscience, therefore no guilt. But they can't escape the fear of getting caught. I too hope someone rats them out.
Here in Los Alamos, lots of our evergreens in the parks get stolen at Christmas time. It is frustrating and irritating. And here you can get a permit from the forest service to cut your own in the National Forest. All they gain by stealing from the parks is the small cost of the permit and the avoidance of a short drive.
Grrr!

Ahh, the all-american family holidy tradition. Going out to cut a christmas tree, to honour Christ's everlasting love...

"Wearing your ski masks and caps, kids?"
"Yes, Daddy, but it isn't that cold."
"That's not why we're wearing them."