The Evil Hedge is Going...Anybody have less Invasive ideas?

well...... we are just getting to the outside lanscaping this year after reno of inside the last 2 years.

We have this hedge we have called the evil hedge, it is nice enough to look at, but it is horrid to mow near, or to trim, because of all the thorns. So I looked it up and it is barberry...purple barberry I think (although some of it is green?). It is the most horrid bush, it grows like mad, I can not keep it trimmed into anything easy to maintain. It is a nice colour but other than that....yuk.

Then I was trying to figure out the backyard hedge which looks more like an overgrown straight line of brush and found it to be a honeysuckle bush. Both of these are on the lists of invasives in this State. So now I had the chinsaw out and was cutting it up last week until it got to be 100+ outside. Does anyone have ideas about what we should replace it with. I lean toward something more natural looking, was thinking of building a trellis like structure for the privacy between the neighbours deck and us and then just planting maybe some shrubs, trees, etc. along the place where the hedge is now in the backyard. Except it needs to be in a stright line and that to me looks so ...formal and I am not formal......how can I get it to look less formal in the backyard?

Attached here is a pic of the front yard hedge.....

This is the best pic I have right now of the backyard hedge, it is in the right corner at back of this pic....I will get a better one tomorrow....

I'm not a formal sort, either, and tend to use plants not typically thought of as hedges for this purpose, planting them close enough to eventually grow together without overcrowding. Would azaleas or rhododendrons do well in your area? If you pick evergreen azaleas, you'd have green all year; and it would look spectacular when flowering. Or maybe the taller hydrangeas, though they're deciduous.

I am sad to say hydrangeas do poorly here as do rhodos and azaleas! I moved here from zone 8b and this is zone 5.

Hurray for you for removing invasive species from your property! I'm currently doing the same thing and it's a big job.

Your pictures also show that you enjoy birds. Lovely birdfeeders and nice hostas BTW :) Have you considered a hedge that also feeds and provides shelter for your birds? How about native Viburnum spp (arrowwood, cranberry bush, blackhaw), Vaccinium spp (blueberries), Cornus spp (gray dogwood, redosier), and Amelanchier spp (shadblow, serviceberry, Juneberry) just to name a few?

I am busy looking up your suggestions....so far the redosier has my attention!

I vaguely recall from my college days (back in the 1800s!) that Greentown was close to Lafayette -- true? Go over to the horticulture park at Purdue and see what is douing well there for some ideas.

Guy S.

hmm.....I never thought about a horitcultural park at Purdue....now I am going to see about going this weekend......THANKS!!! (I am from Vancouver BC)

yes we are near Lafayette, 7 miles east of Kokomo Indiana and 1/2 hours drive to Purdue. Small town of 2-3,000 people.

One of my old college roommates still lives in Kokomo -- maybe that's why I remember Greentown. The hort park is west of campus on the north side of State Street. While you're there at Purdue, also check out the national champion smoketree that was transplanted a few years ago to the south side of campus. Go to Lily Hall and head south across the tracks and follow that road around until you see the smoke tree on your right.

Guy S.

Dove- Looks like you have some nice hosta growing in pots. If the area you want the hedge in is part to full shade you might think some of the large to giant hosta. My Sum and Substance, Royal Standard and Blue Mamoth are so large this year they could almost be a hedge.

yes, I am a hostaholic actually, new this year to it, but apparantly addicted anyways.....I would not gain enough height for the hedge with hosta. But I do love them in my other gardens.......

Guy and fireweed gave you some nice suggestions. Other good native hedge/mixed shrub border plants are witchhazel (hamamelis virginiana) nd filbert (corylus americana). Or, just about any of the viburnums or ninebark or ... well, I could go on and on.

I would tend to get rid of the monoculture and do a mixed shrub border. Great chance to do something with both ornamental and wildlife value.

The more I think about this area I think rather than doing a traditional hedge I am going to go for the suggestion of a mixed shrub border. I Like the idea of some tall grasses mixed with viburnums and some of the other suggestions that everyone has made. I think then I can put a perennial garden infront of it which would be fun to add into the back yard area. I want to also add some rocks and some natural habitat areas that would go well.

We had a blue heron fishing off the dock this morning and I have squirrels and birds everywhere. Of course Canada Geese are prolific as well. I have them mostly trained out of my yard now except in spring I leave them undisturbed to nest and graze with their young. But they just do nto come on my lawn after they get bigger.

I am so glad I read this thread. I also was going to do a hedge (to screen out an unattractive view of the rooftop of a large building). I was having a lot of trouble deciding what shrub to use and if I chose the wrong one I'd be out a lot of money. (Have a tricky situation that area : in summer- morning shade, hot,hot afternoon sun; in winter- full sun, lots of cold wind).

I will do a mixed shrub border instead. Now I can try several of the shrubs I was thinking of and I won't have a ton of money invested in one type. It'll also be much more interesting to look at. I guess there'll be "holes" above the shorter shrubs where we'll still see the rooftop but it won't be bad.

I was really dreading getting going on that part of the yard but now I'm looking forward to it.

Dave's Garden is such a great place!
Sherry

Another advantage is don't have to buy and plant them all at the same time. You can buy plants here and there and find a niche to put them in.

I was just thinking that today while I was outside looking at my new space. I can put some this year some next and not worry so much about it.

I think the guy is coming in the next two weeks to get the stumps from those honeysuckle bushes we cut down ground down. So I am going to spray round up on the grass that is around the area and get that dead and ready to till up. Although a guy on anothe thread was talking about putting cardboard over the area dn that will kill the grass naturally.

Then off shopping for end of year deals on shrubs........and grasses.

I like the idea of incorporating grasses. The hedge of 70+ Burning Bushes that I inherited is hopefully coming out this winter, to be replaced with a mixed grass/shrub border.

If you don't mind starting small, trades will be far less expensive: http://davesgarden.com/forums/f/planttrading/all/

SB

I helped my mom take out some VERY old burning bushes. those scare me almost as much
as Tree of Heaven! The roots had created a solid mass in the planting bed. Thankfully they
were contained by the driveway, the house & a sidewalk.

I just took out another Tree of Heaven that had gotten big enough to produce seed. (Ailanthus altissima)
I have thousands of babies from the original mother tree's seeds - we got it out a few weeks ago
and the seeds spilled everywhere! I'm nervous that I may not have gotten this thug out of here soon
enough... I just didn't realize what I had for a few years!

Tam

IMHO, DG is a progressive community of thinkers. When I first jumped over from The Dark Side (GW) to join this forum, I recall noticing that there was a general lack of awareness here (or perhaps it was just denial) about invasive issues, monocultures, etc., with some notable exceptions. It seems that a combination of converts and new members are changing this significantly. Has anyone else observed this shift, or am I merely imagining it?

Guy S.

As I am new to garden forums online I don't know about this but I do know that I have noticed a shift toward more people being aware of nature and man's impact on it in general. So it may be that it follows here at DG?

I can only say how it started for me. A couple of years ago I heard an advert on NPR about an upcoming native plant and wildflower sale at Brandywine River Museum in Chadds Ford, PA. Since I'm a hop, skip and a jump from there I decided to attend. Got home and started Google searching for information on native plants, which led to info on invasive species.

Hey dove, you might want to consider tossing New Jersey Tea, Sweetspire, Fragrant Sumac, Summersweet, and Steeplebush into your line up of plants to consider. Somebody mentioned Rhodos and I think a Smooth Rhododendron might work in quite nicely even though you've had difficulty with Rhodos in the past. I'll second the Witchhazel, American Hazelnut, a Viburnum that is bombproof (possibly V x burkwoodii or another suggested by John or Kevin), and Ninebark . There's one I am missing that would blend in with those so wonderfully and it's right on the tip of my tongue. I can see it in my mind but the name isn't coming to me. It has brownish colored blooms in mid spring. I know that doesn't sound all that attractive but it is actually a stunning plant. If I think of it, I'll repost.

Guy, I don’t believe there have been any converts. I suspect we all come to these forums with our own gardening styles that represent our life experiences and beliefs and that what we are experiencing is more so a greater tolerance than anything else. Seems as if there are more members willing to be respectful and considerate of how those with opposing views garden these days which resulted in dialogue that was open and honest. I do believe there was an element of fear and superstition that was once laced throughout some forums. Myths were perpetuated because after all, Hollywood never lets facts get in the way of a good story and similarly... some people never let facts get in the way of a "good" plant/seed sale or trade. I saw some intimidation tactics employed by a few who were going to plant what they wanted where they wanted and at the expense of whomever gosh darnitall and they didn't appear to exactly embrace posts voicing concerns that were backed up with sound reasoning, logic, and/or fact. I believe there existed a tremendous amount of tension that has for all practical purposes... long since dissipated. It doesn't hurt that many of the issues are being brought to the forefront so environmentalists are no longer being viewed as tree hugging elitist whackos in need of some nice Lithium Bicarbonate trying to ram native plants down people's throats. I'm noticing that it is increasingly "ok" for people like dovesbydesign to start threads such as this coming right out the gate and stating "no invasives" without members hopping on and defensively posting that there's really nothing wrong with those types of plants and that they grow them or sell them or that their grandma had them or or or. What's really great, is that I think most members now know the difference between an aggressive plant and an invasive plant. How cool is that!

Carolina Allspice. That's the plant I was thinking about.

http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/550

I really like the looks of that bush, I just went and checked it out! The flower is unusually tropical and the bush seems pretty!

Has anyone ordered shrubs from online? What size do they come and how do they grow? Is it best to order from local nursery? I have a hard time finding anything 'different' here. Online they seem to have a wiser choice but size is of concern too.

I really like that Carolina Allspice too. Wait till you see those brown blooms up close and personal. I think that particular shrub is understated and elegant.

I order almost exclusively on line. Like everyone else out there who is searching for native plant material, I have my favorite on line nurseries but I am certainly game to always try a new one. Most of the plants that have had the highest survival rates for me are those that I have been purchasing from nurseries that are growing them a little bit north of me in Wisconsin. Plants from this area do considerably better for people like you and me than plants grown in let's say TN or GA.

I want to put this against my east-facing deck, under a couple of magnolias. Would it be better to plant it in spring or fall? Is it slow or fast growing for you? Do you fertilize it? If so, with what? thanks! :0)

I have plenty of Carolina Allspice, we call it Sweetshrub here. It does sucker profusely from underground runners. Mine is growing in a wooded area so I just let it run and do it's thing.They could probably get by with more sun up north, but in the south they like shade. My great grandmother used to take the flowers and put them in her dresser drawers for the fragrance.

Thanks escambiaguy~The location I had in mind is bordered by the deck and the asphalt pad between my house and garage. So it would be somewhat contained, I have a collection of rocks under there now, and a Rose of Sharon that I want to move. It would be shaded by the magnolia trees.

The Carolina Allspice I have seen up here have all been in full sun. I don't know how they will do in shade or partial shade.

I don't remember where I bought mine but here's a nice nursery that might have them that I use frequently-
Great Lakes
http://www.greatlakesnursery.com/

I always get nice plants from them.

PGZ5, you might also want to check out this nursery as I might have purchased them from here too-
Reeseville Ridge
http://www.wegrowit.com/Reeseville/ReesevilleRidgeCatalog.htm

I always get nice plants from these people too.

Both are really nice nurseries and both have equally nice people who run them and both have high quality plants that are competitively priced.

ty eq - I'll check them out when I'm ready to buy! :0)

If you want, I can send you some in the fall. I won't guarantee they will survive your winters though. I sent someone from DG (can't remember who at the moment) about 4 of them last year and they all made it.

I skipped thru the thread, so not sure if anyone mentioned these plants. Spice bush 'Lindera bezoin', Ninebark 'Physocarpus opulifolius', Wahoo 'Euonymus atrppurpureus'. I have these and others in a "hedge".

Welcome home honey! You've been missed! How was Arkansas?

Thanks! AR was hot and muggy. The only saving grace was the lake. Everybody should take 3 weeks and just boat and swim. Good to be home though coz I missed my honey.

Your husband sounded pretty lonely. He definitely missed you and your daughter. Yup, I got nervous when you didn't come back around the time you said you would so I called. I can't help myself. I worry sometimes and it is a long car ride down there with just you and your daughter.

Didn't he tell you I was on the other line? I'm surprised. I was talking to him when I could clearly hear him cutting out and asked him if someone wasn't calling. He said your name and I told him to take it (I'd wait) and tell you I would be gone a lot longer than anticipated. My parents, especially my mom, have a fit if I make long distance calls, so I didn't ask John to look up your number. And no computer or cell phone. It was a long truck ride. But think of all the lovely mimosa's I got to see on my drive. And at Bourbon MO they put in some new plantings. Just lovely.....burning bush and japanese barberry I could clearly make out. Lovely, just lovely.

Nope, he didn't tell me you were on the other line. He did sound terribly lonely though poor fella.

Guy,

You ask a question well worth thinking about, but I haven't been active on DG long enough nor do I read a wide enough variety of the forums for trend spotting, so I can only answer for myself. DG has not so much shifted my politics as provided a lot of information that allows me to apply my politics to my garden. I'm afraid I'm quite a late starter as a gardener and I'm sure I'm not alone in finding the issues of invasives complex and befuddling. Even though I actually enjoy a bit of research (and I’m old enough to remember just how much pre-computerized library time it used to take to research anything), I often resent just how much work it is to figure out if my actions will be harmful. One shortcut on that process can be to find people who obviously know what they are talking about and listen to them. So if there is a change on DG, you are one of the reasons it is happening.

And if you do ever catch me contemplating a particularly idiotic plant choice, assume I missed the chapter where it was covered.

K.

Note to All:

Daves Garden has permanently altered my plant selection habits and methods. I am a long time passionate gardener who has really just begun to understand the full impact of plant choices. I am humbly grateful to every thoughtful contributor who has taken the time to share, in a patient and nonjudgemental manner, the information necessary to make an informed choice. This forum has also opened my eyes to the utter lack of information available about noxious weeds, invasives or prohibited plant material from the state agencies who are charged with these duties in the state where I live. So yes, politics has been injected, by default, not deliberately.

Thank You
Mary