How did you secure your GH?

I was all set to get a GH when the person selling them told me, "Think of them as a very large kite." I stopped in my tracks. I want a GH, but I don't know too much about making sure it "stays on the ground".

According to the lady that was selling the GH to me, "Maybe your engineer will have an idea how to secure it to the ground."

Getting a GH is a large expense for me. I don't have a lot of money to throw around. I deffinately don't have money to hire an engineer and I don't want my GH to "Fly" away.

The one I decided to get is 20' x 80', "Gothic Style" Greenhouse.

If someone could help me out, I'd appreciate it. There has to be a way to secure it to the ground but I don't know how.

Thanks.
Darrell

Hi Darrell,

What you want are mobile home augers. They are cheap and easy to use. The only hard part about it is screwing them into the ground. They work beautifully and will help with holding on shade cloth in the summer.

X

Maybe you could anchor it with pipe or post dug into the ground set in concrete?
Dave

Darrel, for the type of g-house you are getting, the normal practice is to put in pipes that are about 3 ft long in the ground. These pipes are slightly bigger in I.D. than the O.D of your hoops (I.D. inside diameter. O.D. outside diameter). The pipes can be pounded into the ground if you have very solid ground; otherwise a hole is dug, the pipes inserted into the hole, and concrete is poured around them to anchor them.

One the g-house hoops go up their ends go into these pipe anchors and secured with a bolt. Done this way, your g-house (depending on the diameter of the hoop pipes as well as the wind braces, which should be included) should easily sustain 80 mph winds.

The mobile home augers that Xeramtheum shows above will have to be augered in much deeper than what is shown in the pic above, due to the size of your g-house. You'll also need them to go down each side, approx every 6 ft, for worry-free anchoring. (By the way, Xeramtheum, love your set-up! I'm sure you do too! Lots of fun there, eh!?)

As for an engineer...you shouldn't need one. Greenhouse companies gladly offer input regarding setup/etc...I don't know why this person wouldn't do that, unless you are buying a second hand g-house. If so, be aware, if you have to take it down you should look at it closely and understand that could be quite a chore in itself. Also, look and see how she has it anchored down; it should be very obvious if you look at the base.

Good luck. Holler back if needed!
Shoe.

Thank you for the information. I like the idea of those tie downs that screw into the ground. I never thought about using those. I don't think it would work though. It is double poly and the tie down would only tie down the poly every so many feet and the rest would be at risk.

I heard back from the people who have the greenhouse. It's a very good company here and it's in our "Watch Dog" too. The name of the place is "Halifax Seed" and they have a place a couple cities away.

They suggested using rebar and posts.

The woman I spoke with told me that it is best to put the greenhouse in an area that the ground is settled. Most of the people that put these up usually put them on ashfault and drive rebar down thru it all.

The place I wanted to put this isn't settled. I live in the middle of the woods and last month I had a 90' x 70' area cleared and filled. They knocked down the trees with their bulldozer and burried them with the fill dirt. So, using those auger type trailer tie downs won't work I'm affraid, because I would be trying to auger one down thru a tree. Rebar might work though, I don't know. If I pounded rebar down into the ground and hit a tree that was burried, it would be like a huge nail into the tree below.

How do you pound rebar into the ground?

How long do I make these rebar things and how far apart do I place them? Or, because of the fresh fill dirt put down, should I just forget the whole thing for a few years? This sucks.

How about this idea? if it isn't too expensive, i.e., I could have someone come in that puts up chain link fence and have them put in their posts "only" and attach my greenhouse to those. Those fence people have machines that pound the post down into the ground and then they fill them with cement.

I called a fence company here in town and they told me $60.00 a post. That came to just over $1,900.00 to put in a post every 5 feet.

Yep...way too expensive going that route, eh?

As for the tie downs, be they the auger "screw down" type or pipes in the ground, the plastic doesn't attach to those. You need to put down a baseboard along the bottom of each side (usually a 2 x 6 treated lumber) and the plastic attaches to the baseboard, not the tiedowns.

And yes, it would be much easier to knock in some rebar (or bigger piece of pipe as I mentioned above) than risk trying to screw in an auger anchor and running into a buried tree. (As for the settling of your land, I bet when they buried those trees they backfilled them with dirt and then drove over and over the ground to compact it down. Those bulldozers weigh so much I'm sure you have settled ground.)

Darrell, can you go to their website and and show us which g-house they are selling you? Or are they selling you a new one, or one they no longer want?

Here is an inside few of one of my g-house hoops, in the ground, and showing the 2x6 lumber running the length of the greenhouse as the baseboard; the plastic being attached to the baseboard. I'll try to find some more definitive pics for you.

There are no pictures of what I'm getting. Although they are pretty close. The web site is:

http://www.ggs-greenhouse.com/default.asp/id/12

If you click on the picture "Cold Frame" it will show the cold frames but it doesn't show the Gothic Style GH, where the sides go straight up about 3 to 5 feet, and then arch toward the center.

This greenhouse is brand new from Halifax Seed Company.

This is the description:

Qty
80 lf - 20' GGS Gothic Style
64 lf - Oval Eave End Closure (for gable ends)
160 lf - Wire Polylock Complete (for sides)
160 lf - Connection Hardware
1 each - Inflation Unit Complete
2 roll - Super Durafilm4 32' x 100' x 6mil 4-year poly

Under "Options" it has

Gable Ends
2 each - 20' Wide Gable Frame Only (I'm guessing I'm going to have to buy more poly for these ends as well as a door)

There is more, but I don't think I need anything else. Except, I am getting the Side Roll ups for this.

Here is a picture of the directions for the anchor's they sent me today.





This message was edited Jan 23, 2006 10:15 PM

here is whaqt i did with the same type of greenhouse/coldframe.

i bought galvanized fencepost at lowes or hone depot just bigger 6" and cut each one in two. have an extra ont or two. then go to the plumbing section and get a 6" pipe nipple that fits over that and an end cap screw those together
for each 'posts" dig a 6" hole if u have stable soil [not sandy] and place a 3' post in place and put the pipe niple and cap over it pound into the ground with a big hammer go slow and leve 6" sticking up place 6" of greenhouse frame into this drill a hole and bolt with 5/16" bolt
repeat as needed
mark

Mark, that's pretty much how my g-house is anchored, too. (Except I poured concrete around those anchor posts.)

Darrell, that looks like you are getting a whole complete system going. You may want to double-check with them about the size of the plastic though. If your g-house is gonna be 80 ft long, and they are only going to send you 100 ft of plastic, that is not enough to put on two layers. And it appears they are selling you a two-layer covering cus they are including an inflation kit. In other words, it appears you are being shorted on the amount of plastic you'll need.

Also, the poly locks are great...that will make it very easy to attach the plastic. You'll still need the baseboard though so be sure to include that in your budget.

As for the side roll ups...I prefer the side "roll downs". The curtains that roll up from the ground will certainly cool the g-house down but in the process if you have plants on the floor, or close to it, they'll suffer from the cold air. (Plus the roll ups are more liable to allow critters into the g-house. If you get the "roll downs", (which will also hang about 3 to 4 ft in height) they will roll down from the top. This way, if your plant are on the floor they won't be directly exposed to the cooler outside air, or if they are on tables most tables are only made at the 3 ft height. Also the bottom of the curtains will still be in place and create a barrier against rodents/varmints from entering the g-house.

Hope you have fun...You'll love it!
Shoe.

I edited the above to show the quantity of each item.

Do you mean a pipe that is 6" across? That's a big hole! I don't think I've ever seen a fence post that wide before, but I'll call Home Depot tomorow and ask them if they have them.

Dig a 6 inches wide hole? or 6 inches deep?

Pound a 6 inch wide pipe into the ground 3 feet. Then put the hoops of the greenhouse down inside those pipes?

Drill a hole into the pipe of the greenhouse and the pipe that I pounded down into the ground and bolt the frame to the pipe.
Do I have it right?

I never heard of a "roll down". I'll ask if I can get one though. It sounds a lot better to me.

Shoe , great idea on that roll down curtain.

Is it possible to get a pic so we can see how it closes ?

What keeps rain run-off from coming in at the top of the roll down curtain while it is in the closed position ?

Hugs from here ,
S

Darrell...I just re-read dirt-digging's post...and yes, a 6 inch pipe is huge for this! I wonder if he/she meant 6 inch circumference...that would make the pipe about the diameter of a 2.5 to 3 inches, much more like I used for anchors. (and yes, a 6 inch wide pipe would be a very big chore to bang into the ground, for me anyway!) Dirtdiggin...can you elaborate?

"Drill a hole into the pipe of the greenhouse and the pipe that I pounded down into the ground and bolt the frame to the pipe. Do I have it right?"

Yes...you'll need to bolt the g-house hoop to the anchor because a good wind will easily slide the hoop out of the anchor. Some g-house companies will recommend you just sink the g-house hoop into the ground a foot or more, not using a separate anchor. This may work in some cases but the end result will be you have much lower head room and also it'll still need to be anchored (somehow) for support.

Howdy Scooter! (Brrmmm brrrrmmm....I can hear it purring down the highway!)

Here is a link that sells the curtains. The show the automated ones that use airblowers (very nice cus I like to sleep late some mornings!) and also the Hand-crank models. I don't have them on my present g-house because I rely on big exhaust fans at one end and five louvers at the other end; however, the coldframe/greenhouse we'll put up this year will have the curtains for sure. That link is:
http://www6.mailordercentral.com/igcusastore/products.asp?dept=1118

As for the rain/run-off...at the top of the curtains is a metal frame that sticks out and deflects the rain from running straight down onto the curtain. You should be able to see that in the pics (I think).

Shoe.

I guess I lucked our (or more likely was blessed from God), but the eye of Katrina went right over my greenhouse, which is not anchored to the ground in any way. It moved over a few inches. (Katrina sucked the gable end wall out of our house and also sucked two windows out. They were all hanging out over the bricks.)

My gh is constructed of treated 2X4s, and the bottom half is solid wood. I'm thinking that the fact that it was so heavy, and also has a rounded top, might have been the saving grace.

If I ever get another greenhouse, I'll try for one that has space for more tall plants. Mine has shelves down both sides, and the walkway in the middle is the only place I can put tall plants. (The entire thing is only 8X12).

Kay

sorry did not mean to confuse you the 6 inch pipe is its length, a pipe nipple 6" long screw a pipe cap to ti this prevents the foundation posts from being dammaged as u pound them into the ground
sorry to convuse
mark

Hi Darrell
Looks like the rebar is a good /cheap way to go.I agree that the ground should be well compacted with the dozers packing it down.

Horseshoe
Those side curtains look interesting too..Never thought of roll down..When I looked at your pic of the ground connectors ,It looked like galvanized pipe.Does the plastic touch galvanized?I would have thought that the 2 couldn,t be compatable.heat etc?

Gord in BC

Thanks Mark.

Let me see if I have it right now........ I take a pipe that is 6 inch long that is a little bit bigger than the pipe of the hoop frame and put a cap on it to protect it from damage when I pound it down into the ground.

Remove the cap and put it on the next piece and pound that into the ground and keep doing that untill I have them all in. Then I take the hoop frame and slide them down inside those pipes I pounded in.

6 inches doesn't seem like much to hold up the whole thing. The people selling this to me are saying the rebar should be 42 inches pounded down in the ground. There's a big difference between 6 inches pounded into the ground every 5 foot, and 42 inches pounded into the ground, every 2 feet.

Do you think this would work?
The space between each hoop frame is 5 feet. I could pound down a 6" pipe for the frame to sit in and in-between each place where I pounded down the pipe, I could put a couple 42" rebar anchors. But, I don't know if that will work or not, come to think of it. I don't know how I would hook the rebar to the 2 x 6" board that goes on the side. The 6" pipe that is pounded down into the ground holds the hoop frame. I can attach the hoop frame to the 2x6" with one of those "U" shaped clamps.

In that picture I posted where the 2x6" board is laying flat on the ground, it shows the rebar going thru the board at an angle. But how are they securing the rebar to the board? It says something about a "Nut", but rebar isn't threaded.

I wish I wasn't so dense. This whole thing is probably very easy to do but I'm just not getting it. If I had drawn this up in my own mind, I would know exactly what I'm doing. But trying to second guess something that someone else has come up with makes me feel really inferior. lol

Please bear with me. I'll get it. (eventually)

Thanks

Darrell

My goal in all this is to have something I can afford this year. Which means it isn't going to have Fans and Intake vents. No heat or anything else for that matter. I'll use it as a Cold Frame.

As I keep doing the vegetable stand and make back some of the money I'm putting into this, I'd like to keep using what I've started out with and eventually have a Greenhouse that has the fans, vents, water system, etc.

So, whatever I buy now, has to be able to fit in with my plans for use later on. I hope I'm correct in thinking that the frame is a "frame" and it can be used either as a Cold Frame today, and a Greenhouse later. It all depends on what I cover it with and what I put in it that makes a difference as to wether or not it's a cold frame or a greenhouse.

no no no] sorry sorry sorry
the 6 inch piece of pipe is just slips over your post foundation to keep the end from getting battered up it protects the end while hammering. sorry if thisis not a good explaniation. the posts u buy from hd or lowes need to be 6 feet long and need to be able to slip over the hoops of the greenhouse u bought cut these psots, they are your foundation posts and cut them to 3 feet in length. that 6 inch piece of pipe and[threaded with cap] has to fit over these or use a 2 x 6 scrap of wood to protect the psot u are pounding in
one way or the other sorry i guess i do not explain this well

mark

darell if u need to email me at markpsbrown@hotmail and i will give u my phone number or i will call u and talk u thru this
mark

I don't think I can do that, Mark. In back of my house is all woods. I had to have the tree's bulldozed down and then they put fill dirt on top of the tree's. So, to pound in a pipe that deep, would be impossible to do. The pipe would hit a tree and stop. Rebar, on the other hand, (i'm only guessing at this), might act as a nail and penitrate the tree that's been burried.

Shoe, you're right about the bulldozer. He was back and forth, back and forth over the entire area many times. He knocked down a couple tree's then burried it with fill dirt. Then he would go a little bit further into the woods and knock down a couple more, and all the while he was doing that, he was going over the top of what he had already done.

That whole thing of knocking down tree's about killed me. I put up posters in the grocery stores and at the farm store here in town that said, "FREE" tree's for fire wood for the cutting. I talked to everybody I knew and tried to give the lumber away and nobody wanted to take the time to have free heat this winter or at the very least, have it for next year. So, I had to have it bulldozed down. I still have ton's of tree's out there and some of it I've cut down for myself and burn it in the wood burner. You would think with the cost of heat, people would opt for free, wouldn't ya?

Thank you so much Shoe.

Now I can keep da critters out ......... frogs & kitties & doggies & 'coons ... OH My !

Va-roooom hahahaha , this strange warm weather has allowed very comfy rides Mid-January !

....... neat-o bandito ! (as my kids would have said )

Darrell

If any one is interested here is the list of materials for the above HH


1. 16 3/4" PVC pipe, schedule 80, 10 feet long
2. 6 3/4" PVC crosses, schedule 80
3. 2 3/4" PVC tees, schedule 80
4. 32 3/4" galvanized electrical metallic tubing (EMT) straps
5. 2 2"x6"x14' treated No. 2 pine boards
6. 2 2"x6"x12' treated No. 2 pine boards
7. 4 2"x4"x7' treated No. 2 pine boards
8. 4 2"x6"x6' treated No. 2 pine boards
9. 4 4"x4" treated 4" x 4" wood posts ( corners set in cement 2 1/2 feet deep)
10. 2 2"x4"x3' treated No. 2 pine boards
11. 2 1"x4"x12' treated No. 2 pine boards (to be cut up for door parts)
12. 1 Set of door hinges
13. 1 Sheet of plastic, 24'x20', 4 mil
14. 1 Can of PVC cleaner
15. 1 Can of PVC cement




This message was edited Jan 24, 2006 10:40 AM

with plastic on

Thank you Scooterbug. I copied and pasted the list and put the pictures in my folder.

Do you have the directions on how to make the door?

I am going to have roll ups or roll downs on the sides of my cold frame/greenhouse. :)

Gord, yes, my hoops are galvanized pipe. The plastic is thick g-house plastic and is not affected by any heat; besides, the pipe don't get very hot at all. From what I understand, some plastics will react with galvanized pipes but apparently ghouse plastic doesn't. This plastic is in it's 6th year now (due for a change this summer though!)

Darrell, maybe you could take some pipe/rebar and do some "sample pounding" in various places and see what kind of obstructions you run into. That would also help you decide exactly where you would like to place your coldframe (the place with the least number of underground obstacles. (I really need to find my construction pics of our g-house and run them thru my scanner...those pics are worth a thousand words.)

Scooter, good plans for that hoop house! It looks better built than others I've seen. Do the hoops hold steady in a windy area and not try to flatten out? Did you make one? I'd like to make a movable one for use in the garden.

Shoe.

Another question. Clear Poly or the other kind that you can't see thru?

The ghouse runs East and West with the broad side facing North and South? I think that's right.

Darrell,

For doors , most folks just make a simple cross braced ( see diagram ) frame out of 1 by's and cover it with the same plastic.

add a couple hinges and a GOOD latching system. Very important that it will not wiggle loose in a wind storm and blow the door open. It will balloon up and be gone.

shoe, I'm making one like that but with some changes to keep it from laying down.

I was told it will only be as strong as the end panels . Sink the door framing into the ground and likewise the other end.

If you want portable , try screwing some horizontal 1x4 purlins to the pvc or pipe in the middle of each side. As a bonus ya get more room to hang stuff ;-)
Bracing other wise I don't know yet , trying to figger how to get a diagonal side brace which is very strong and yet still be portable.

Hey ! I think I like your portable idear *

*shakes head and walks away mumbling about architectural engineers * lol

Darrell...the clear poly is good for offering full light and as much heat as possible. Good for winter time, extremely hot in summertime. The white poly is good for using your cold frame for overwintering plants and also for sustaining plant growth (it tends to allow approx 75% of the light thru but helps to cut down on the heat build-up inside).

A great combination would be to use clear poly for Wintertime growing and Springtime seeding/growing of veggie plants, herb plants and such and then when the Summer heat kicks in remove the poly and throw shade cloth over your frame, making it a shade house.

Scooter...the diagonal side brace (or wind brace) would come from just above the middle of the outer hoop and go to just below the middle of the second hoop...from the second hoop, another brace would go from the middle (or near where the first brace connected) to the bottom of the 3rd hoop. This will deflect all wind pressure to the ground (bottom of the 3rd hoop area) and not transfer the force straight across all the hoops, which would cause them to buckle. Hope that makes sense.

"*shakes head and walks away mumbling about architectural engineers * lol" Hah! Trust me, I ain't no engineer, I just look at how things work from time to time! :>)

LOl @ (((shoe)))