Friend or Foe #6

Another shot

One more

FOE, FOE-FOE!!!

Leaf-footed bugs. they are hard to kill once they get their wings, best to find and squash them as mymphs.

get a fish net or butterfly net. and a bucket of soapy water with oil in it.

Hurry, these things are awful. Of course, if you have some assassin bugs or toads or birds around, they may take care of them for you. i couldn't catch mine, but in a few days there was no more sign of them...

Wow...I have about a zillion of them in my garden. I think that short of nuclear attack, I'm not going to be able to spray everything. They even like to live in the riparian areas and you are right about them being very mobil. I'm praying for cold. Might be the best solution. My sunflowers don't look so hot anymore anyway. Thanks for the ID!

I put on my garden gloves and go out and squish them! I have to chase them some but if you catch them off guard they won't fly off. I just killed a bunch of nymphs yesterday on my Jimsonweed. I used the pyrethrin spray on them tho.

Not a good clear pic but you can get an idea of what they look like first.

Oh, no wonder the other thread was so old! Thanks Kim, for directing me to the new one! Anyway, I discovered this little lady last night on my plumeria. Looks like a momma guarding her eggs! She reared up into defensive position when I got too close. She's still patiently sitting there today. What kind of spider is she? Is she a friend or foe? Should I let the eggs hatch? There are three pics.

another....

...and another view.

I consider all spiders to be friend. i only kill ones i know to be dangerous; brown recluse and black widow (the latter only if in a bad spot, the former immediately onsite LOL)

can't wait to hear what she is, NICE PICTURES!

tf

Thanks TF, I just spent a bundle on a new digital camera, and it takes great shots at night! And I feel the same way about spiders. She looks so sweet sitting there today guarding her eggs, I told her I wouldn't bother her! ;-> I'm hoping to catch the moment when the eggs start hatching for pics.

oh, please DO!

After I read the thread on katydid's yesterday one climbed up our sliding glass door tonight (the cats alerted us). Tamara, you won't believe it but it was missing a back leg. I was thinking okay, I have Tamara's katydid!!! LOL Anyway, I went reading and this website says that both male and female 'sing' http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/StratfordLandingES/Ecology/mpages/true_katydid.htm but crickets and grasshoppers only the male sings - is this right?

-Kim

That is too funny Kim! Mine won't grow her leg back, she must be an adult, she laid eggs! I'm gonna keep them LOL. She doesn't sing at all because there are no males, they are "obligatory parthenocarpic", which i think means "you're it!"

will check your link out later,

tf

If there are no males the eggs won't be any good...obligatory parthenocarpic or not.

LOL

very funny Sandy, for a minute i was worried i owuldn't have any babies. i just won't send you any ;-P

Now i might get some more eggs, found another identical katydid today! almost iddn't catch her, but managed to not rip off HER leg! She is bright green instead of pink though everything else is the same. And i din't give her an opportunity to bite me, once is enough LOL. We will see, she may have already put her eggs outside somewhere, her ovipostor is so thin...

Night_Bloom, do these gals lay more than one set of eggs?

tf

pssssssssssssssssssssssssst

Hope I did not get anyone else (just in case) with my rasberry.....

hehehehehehehehehehehe.


Is this your pink one?

http://www.monteverdehomestay.com/gallery%20photos/med%20katydid.jpg

or here

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=pink+katydid&btnG=Search

nope, nope, & ya missed me too!
it was VERY hard to find, & then only a sketch. if i find it again, i will post it SINCE INQUIRING MINDS HAVE TO KNOW!!!

TF

Spider update: well, they haven't hatched yet, but the egg sack came loose from the leaf it was on, and now momma spider is really clinging onto it! (my boyfriend is now convinced that I am totally insane...first it's cats, then it's the rabbit, now it's a spider....;->). Does anyone know how long it takes before this might hatch? Of course, I don't know how long it's been there.

according to one of my favorite childhood stories, she may be dead long before they hatch. so keep an eye out and prepare to be a surrogate!

of course, i am clueless and insane too!

I was worried about that, her dying, I mean. This is how insane I am....I was thinking of catching a fly and giving it to her because I was thinking "gee, she must be hungry!" Don't tell my boyfriend I said that though, he'll have me committed! Hmm, maybe I should take them and put them in a jar with air holes? What do you think? (momma and babies have now fallen off the original leaf onto another, she's clinging on for dear life!)

P.S. The great thing about this place (Dave's Garden, I mean) is that WE'RE ALL INSANE!! Right? Insane gardeners! We understand each other.

:-) yeppers.

keep an eye on her, i am porne to let nature takes it course,,, when i can control the urge!

Yeah, that's what I keep telling myself too, don't interfere. She's now spun some more web around the sack and seems to be secure for the moment in the new spot. I just want to photograph those babies hatching!

Sorry guys! I hadn't realized that I'd been away so long. It's been busy at work this past week.

bluekat - I didn't go to your link yet , but I will. And I guess it could be possible that female katydids sing too. I was just assuming that they would be like crickets, but it could be that the female katydids do sing. Considering their size, they would be in less danger than a cricket would, so singing might not be as dangerous an activity. It might also depend on who finds who in the mating game in the katydid world. With crickets, there are enough parasites around that prey on them that singing can be risky (the parasites home in on the singing to find their prey). It is risky enough that some sneaky male crickets will not sing, but will locate a singing male, sneak into an area nearby his hole, wait until a female is attracted to the singing male, and then intercept and court her, effectively stealing her from the singing male. Of course his offspring would likely also also lead to more sneaky males, thus continuing the sneaky practice. (Sort of like the handsome guy in Cyrano DeBurgerac, except without premission).

As for katydids laying more than one bunch of eggs, I can't be positive. I know that grasshoppers do, but katydids I'm not sure.

margu - I'm bringing the spider's identity over here, too. She's a Green Lynx spider (family Oxyopidae, genus Peucetia). And if you tried to feed her, she probably wouldn't eat. She's in protection mode right now. As to whether she'll live until the babies arrive, she likely might. There are many spiders that do, and some even make more than one egg case. Some spiders, like wolf spiders, live long enough to protect their babies. The babies hatch out and crawl onto the mother's back and stay with her, piggy-backing until they are bigger and can go out on their own. Some spiders - though which they are escapes me now, except for Filistatidae (sometimes known as the southern house spider, even though they are not in the same family as the regular house spider which is a Theridiidae and not a Filistatidae) - can live for many years. Tarantulas do as well, and maybe trapdoor spiders.

I'll try to have a picture or two soon, but it looks like you guys are doing very well in that department on your own ;) . Nice pictures.

Thanks NB! I was able to read up on my little spider, so valiantly giving her all for those eggs! I've become very attached to her. Do you know how long it usually takes before the eggs hatch?

Oh, another question, NB. Do you have a good photo of a brown widow spider? I found something in the garden yesterday that I think might have been one, but I haven't been able to find a picture of the underside, and the "hourglass" markings. This one had what looked like yellow dots around the four corners of what looked like an hourglass. Then it scurried away.

BROWN WIDOW! Sory, but that is scary. THis morning i saw a spider with an egg case, thought of you, Margu. It was shaped like a black widow, and preffered the dark or shade. But it hadn't actually pushed the case out, like it's body was enlarged? And the body was shiny BROWN, with an unclear red and yellow marking. I left it alone. Then saw a smaller one, with pretty yellow and red markings, almost like cirlces and orbs? It got near her and she waved it away...

Soooo, I would really like to see a picture of brown widows, and if they are dangerous. I can't stay here long enough to look for one. My computer is just up from a crash and could use some more diagnostics.......

Meanwhile, I caught ANOTHER katydid, exactly the same only green instead of pink, same size and everything. Managed to keep her legs on LOL. Put them in together. Maybe wasn' a good idea. This afternoon Green was laying down near dead, and Pink was looking perky. I moved Green to a bowl with a little moisture and some tomatoe leaves, and covered her, brought inside for the night. She was sorta moving when prodded. So finally on Thursday I will take these two gals in for their offical ID. Still thinking they are matriachal katydids, in which case I'm glad at elast one of them laid eggs. I may be farming katydids next year LOL. Sell on e-bay HAHA!

tf

Margu - here are some brown widow pictures. This is an adult. The juveniles can have different color patterns than this though the main color is still basically brown. The males are tiny little things. This is a picture of a male (the tiny one) and a female. Don't worry, the male looks dead, but he's only been knocked out by being chilled. I couldn't wait for him to wake up, because the female was already starting to move around.

Here's what the underside of the female looks like. The hourglass can be anywhere from this orange to yellow, but it is usually spool shaped (fat) like this rather than two triangles.

And here's the egg case. Brown widow egg cases have bumps like this. Very few other spiders do, and those other spiders don't look anything like the brown widow.

Love it! Who knew the males were so small in comparison? Not me.

Thank you!
-Kim

thanks! those i found definitely were not!

You didn't say, but since you chilled them, i am guessing they are poisonous, not to be reckoned with!

Yikes! I'm pretty sure that's what I found in my garden! She had spun a web directly across my garden path and I almost walked right into her! I was reading up on brown widows, and found that they are a relatively new arrival to southern california, and that they are very shy and usually will run away from humans, and that although their venon is more potent than the black widow, they generally release less in a bite. Gee, how comforting! Any comments on my "guest" NB? Are they beneficial in any way in the garden? Or should I just squish 'em when I find them?

BTW, by coincidence, my green lynx's egg case has those little bumps all over it too. She's still sitting there guarding it patiently......

margu - yes, the green lynx is one of those few other spiders that has a case with bumps, and as you can see, she looks nothing at all like the brown widow - heh.

And I would think that the brown widows would be beneficial, but the way you describe the web being spun across your garden path makes me suspicious that maybe yours is not a brown widow, but something similar to our east coast "barn spider" (Araneus cavaticus) or a similar orb weaver which would be in the family Araneidae. If the web is flat and somewhat wheel shaped, you have an orb weaver. Their webs are usually fairly large as well. As you mention, brown widows are shy. They would rather build their messy, rather shapeless, little webs in a hidden area such as under the eaves of a shed or, even better, in a rock pile or a sprinkler housing.

If a human comes across them, the brown widows usually fall to the ground and hide. In general, they would likely not have to protect their egg cases as much as say a black widow, because they make LOTS of them. For example, my chilled gal above had like 20 with her in a big pile. And yes I handled her carefully with forceps because I wasn't going to take the chance of being bitten, but she really was rather whimpy. When I put her on her back to take that shot of her underside, she just basically laid there.

I sent her, her two males, and her egg cases off to the University for their insect zoo if they wanted them.

I was wondering about that, the web I mean, because I read that they liked sheltered spots. I've been looking at pics of the barn spiders, but I don't think the one I found was so hairy, and I can't find a pic of the underside. The spider in my garden definately had 4 yellow spots around a colored shape very similar to the brown widow. Do you have any pics of barn spiders, or any idea of what else it might have been? And I didn't notice the shape of the web, I was a little too freaked out at almost hitting her dead on with my face!

margu - unfortunately I don't. It can be difficult to take pictures of orb weavers, because the camera doesn't usually want to focus on the spider, and the wheel is so large that you can't, by yourself, put a paper behind it, focus, and take th paper away. I intend to get Hubby's help eventually for a team effort, but until then, no good pictures as of yet.

You might try bugguide.net though. I bet that there are some good orb weaver pictures there. Use the family name Araneidae or the genus Araneus in the searchbox.

Thanks NB. I did do a search and found some pretty good pics. I notice that there is a marking of sorts on the underside of the barn spider, and at least two white dots, so maybe some of them have yellow dots too. Some of them do look like the one I saw, and it says that they spin their webs and then hang out right in the middle of them. So hopefully that's what was in my garden! BTW, the green lynx is still sitting on her egg case, it's been pouring rain here and she's hanging on like a trouper!

I'm a mom! ;-) Remember my spider friend and her egg sack? Well, they hatched, right around Thanksgiving. You can see mom in the pic still guarding her babes....I'm not sure exactly how old they are, because I was out of town when they decided to make their appearance.