Friend or Foe #6

A continuation of our thread where we discuss insects and related critters in the garden and whether or not they are helpful or harmful.

Here is a link to the previous thread... http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/536309/ . The first post of that thread contains links to the previous threads or how to get to them.

I decided this time I might start off with a Foe instead of a Friend, mostly because I'm too lazy tonight to look for the friend picture I had in mind, but eventually I will find it (we were talking about crickets and such, so I intend to post a few pictures of various crickets, katydids, etc. eventually). But tonight I was in a moth mood, so here we go...

This rather pretty moth is not a good guy. This is likely known to many veggie gardeners not by this form, but by the holes it can leave in cucumbers and squash - though nowhere near as bad for squash as the squash vine borer that I think someone posted a good picture of here in the past.

This is a Pickleworm moth. Fortunately for me, the cucumbers I grow are chinese cucmbers which these seem to do only very minimal damage to, and only later in the year. These don't bother my squash much until later in the year either, by which point the vine borers have usually done them in anyway.

As with the squash vine borer, tilling is one way to help reduce these guys. Dig up the soil in areas where you've grown susceptible stuff and the pupae get exposed. Birds and weather do the rest.

Here we go - a Pickleworm moth...

nice to know how to spot them.. i have seen p[ictures in the veggie fourm on what those guy's larvae do to squash!

Okay... this link came in an email I got and I think it's pretty good. It shows great pics of stinging catapillars... I had heard a radio show host talk about the awful sting of the saddleback, but had never known what they look like. I really do need to familiarize myself with these and start showing these to my four year old since he's a big fan of picking up any critter. He became very comfortable with handling worms and both kids really enjoy it, but don't know the troublew they are in for if they grab the wrong thing. Unfortuantely, the 2 year old has been stung by yellow jackets, so they both know that there are "bite me's" out there.
http://www.uky.edu/Agriculture/Entomology/entfacts/misc/ef003.htm
Susan



This message was edited Sep 23, 2005 10:29 PM

I had two saddlebacks on a rose. Accidentally brushed one- not a good idea. The discomfort was gone in an hour or so. One looked like a rolled leaf, so be careful out there!

o.k. night_bloom i was told to get intouch with you about the good old common house fly and how to get rid of them. my son raises boxers in an outdoor kennel and it is kept very clean but the flies are horrible!!! any ideas?

Check out what happened to this tomato horn worm in my garden. Actually, it was amazing because there were lots of tomato horn worms and every single one was dead and had this parasite. Anybody know what it is?

Another one

Hey Thripmaster.. it's Susan, the big messenger fan!!

I think that's a parasitic wasp that uses them to feed their young.

Look what I found eating my plants. Also, one of them eliminated on my glove and I finally figured out what was leaving all that evidence all over my angel trumpets. What is this? Sorry if I should know this, but I don't.

Susan

opps, I have a better one

Thripmaster, do you have a special blend for thrips, hence your name?? If so, please share...

What is this guy? He is all scrunched up but you get the idea. Since this was taken he has made a large web and is feasting as we speak. There are two now. Yellow and black butt with orange legs

-Kim

im, he is fabuolous looking (good pic!), think that is an orb, what kind of web did they make? i find these guys all over the garden making their webs aobut this time of the evening...

Wow, bluekat, he's a looker!!

Here he is, he didn't eat but saved it for later - the white sac at the bottom of the picture.

cheryl11 - Generally house fly larvae need "moist" organic matter to eat/survive. Unless the house flies are coming from somewhere else close by, the dog refuse and or leftover wet dog food, etc could be the only thing I could think of that would give you lots of fies. They can travel though, so if you have neighbors with cows, horses, or other animals, they might be the source of the flies. Flies can also breed in compost piles sometimes too, though my composte pile seems to be dominated by worms in drier weather and soldier flies in wet weather. Normally that would be good stuff for flies (rotting veggies, etc), but the other critters seem to outcompete them. Soldier flies especially will eat other flies.

I wish I had more advice to give you, but I think forst you'll have to track down the source of the house fly larvae, and if they aren't coming from your proerty, controlling them might be difficult.


soulgardenlove - Are Angel trumpets related to passion vines (Maypops)? I ask this, because even though I can't be positive from the pictures, these look almost like Gulf Fritilary caterpillars. After a really slow start, I finally got a pretty good crop of these this year. They weren't fast enough to eat all of the passion vines, so there was a little bit of passion vine overflow, but I think there should be a good bunch of the critters next year. I'll post a picture at the end of this post, and you can see if that's what you've got.

If so, you may want to consider planting a passion flower or two (be careful though, they can get out of control if you don't have the caterpillars to eat them). I think they'd probably prefer to eat the passion vines to your Angel trumpets if they had them available.

bluekat - that looks like a young Marbled orb weaver to me (family Araneidae, genus Araneus). It looks like she got herself an Acanalonidae leaf hopper perhaps.

Here's a more "full body" picture of a Gulf Fritillary caterpillar. The butterfly is an orange and black Nymphalidae butterfly.

Sherrylike..I got my screen name because I used to work for Novartis Crop Protection (now named Syngenta) and sold TONS of Agrimek to contol thrip on avocados in the Santa Barbara area. I became known as the "go to" person for thrip in citrus and avocados. Same product as Avid. I don't work for that company any more, but I still think it is a good product...but a little pricey. Funny part is that I am not an entomologist and have not special knowledge of thrip at all! My background is all plant path.

What a nice story thripmaster. Very nice to know you!!! Thanks, so much, for the intro...I absolutely hate the thrips that attacked my garden, as well as the storm they rode in on, Katrina!!! I appreciate you post and the info!!!

Yes Night Bloom that is it!! But I found them on tomatoes?? Yes, they did eat my angel trumpets.. But are they harmful or do they turn into pretty butterfly's? I need to look them up! Thanks for ID. :)

Susan

Thripmaster or anyone else who knows, maybe you can help me. Are these thrips? I haven't seen any damage yet from these little things but suddenly they are multiplying. They hang out in the throat of my blooms.

kell - those are definitely flies. Now whether they are harmful flies - like leaf miners - I don't know. If they are just hanging out on the flowers, I wouldn't worry, but keep an eye out for leaf miner tunnels just in case. Though usually leaf miner tunnels don't do much real damage. Usually it's just cosmetic.

With the red eyes, they almost look like fruit flies.

Well, i wish i could get a picture, but two days ago caugth the most unusual grasshopper. I thought it was a tree cricket because of its shape, long horns, and long tail. We went to the library yesterday and i discovered the most helpful book: The Audobon Guide to North American Insects and SPiders! I highly recommend you chekc it out~

So it seems liek what we have (stilll in a jar) is a cone head grasshopper. Unfortuantely, when i caught it, the leg popped off. so she is a in a jar. i wanted to see what she was before i fed it to the guineas. will her leg grow back?

when i get a chance i will look on the internet this weekend. meanwhile, the rear legs are pink/red, and the body a dull green with a cream stripe down the top. And of course, long horns, long tail, and a cone-head.

TamaraFaye - whether or not her leg will grow back depends on whether or not she is an adult. If she's an adult, her leg can't grow back. If it's a nymph, she has at least one more molt to go through, and will get her leg back when she molts into the next largest size. The way to tell if the grasshopper is an adult is to look for wings. If she has wings, she's an adult and won't molt any more. If she has no wings, then she's a nymph and has at least one more molt to go, and she'll get a new leg then.

gee, i don't see any wings. one of her horns was short and it is growing back. upon closer inspection, most of her body is pinkish red, and her tail too! green and cream is only on top, and part of it is in cross stripes, reminds me of a certain kind of katydid, with the sheild back. hard to describe.

kinda silly to take care of her and nurse her back to health, only to feed her to the keets. but i have done sillier things i guess :-)

so i should go look her up and get this over with, sigh...

can you give me another site to search?

i came up with no results on cone head, and none on orthoptera neoconocephalus. a search on just grasshoppers came up with too many pics, none of the family orders included long horn, and in the comments i looked under slant head & toothpick, definitely not the same!

the only three coneheads in my book are nebrascensis, robustus, & ensiger. Non of these have the same coloration as mine, but as far as body type are the same. so i figured there must be more cone heads...

i keep getting creepy visions from those coneheads of Saturday Night Live LOL

really, though i want to get a positive ID on her before carrying out her sentence. she might even be eligible to appeal :-)

well, hree is this decription i found:

Common coneheads (Neoconocephalus) have wings that extend beyond the abdomen; the cone is separated from the face by a prominent gap and never ends in a sharp point. Length 37-74 mm.

Identification of species

Most species in this genus have distinctive cones. By comparing the ventral view of the cone of the specimen you wish to identify with the ones in the summary plate below, you should be able to eliminate all but a few species from further consideration.

i don't understand the technical words such as "separated from the face by a prominent gap " sounds simple enough, but her eyes are on t he top of what i thought was her cone...
also: " ventral view of the cone " i suppose that is from the front.

so IF i followed directions, she is NOT a conehead, so back up to the long-horn family to find the sword tail, long back legs, & long slender body...

well, NB, i'm stumped. the closest i can find does not give a color but everything else fits. cept for the fact that none have been found recently.

tell me it isn't soooooo..... from http://buzz.ifas.ufl.edu/158a.htm

"matriarchal katydid
Saga pedo (Pallas 1771)



map female foreleg

Identification: Forelegs adapted for holding prey; rows of strong spines along inside and outside lower edges of femur and tibia. No males; females large and wingless. Known only from Jackson County, Michigan. Length 60-65 mm.

Habitat: Old fields.

Season: August and September. Eggs apparently require more than one winter to hatch.

Similar species: None.

Remarks: A reasonable hypothesis as to how the matriarchal katydid was brought to Michigan is that one or more of its eggs were in soil adhering to farm equipment returning from plowing contests in Italy. The first Michigan specimen was collected in 1970 and only six have been taken since. Unlike our native katydids and other species of Saga in Europe, the matriarchal katydid is obligatorily parthenogenetic. No males are known from here or from Europe. Even though there is no male calling song, females have prominent tympanal organs on the fore tibiae.

A caged female captured and avidly ate grasshoppers. She inserted eggs in soil to a depth of about 25 mm.

References: Cantrall 1972.

Nomenclature: OSFO2 (Orthoptera Species File Online) "

ok, i am not going nuts... i kept looking at photos and descriptions, nothing close. finally in the meadow katydid category, this is the closest, except it isn't pink like mine:

http://buzz.ifas.ufl.edu/238a.htm

since it hasn't been reported in my county, should i give it to my county agent Monday?

thanks :-)

Night Bloom, how do you know all this?? your a genious... Well, I feel terrible about not knowing if those catapillars were friends or foes and since I have my two sons with me in the garden, I thought they were foes :( UGH!! They turn into butterfly's and I have all kinds of them flying around and no wonder duh, they reproduce, but I just didn't know.. I feel badly, but now I know and will certainly grow some passion vines for them to eat.

Ironically, my husband was in the woods today and he got this terrible sting on his hand. A few minutes later he saw the catapillar culprit and he came home and asked me if I thought that was the stinger.. ironic. I told him, I'm just starting to learn all about friends and foes and I would share some pictures with him.

I was at a garden center and saw a hairy little thing and I really do need to learn my varieties since I automatically think anything with hair will sting!

Susan

Here's one as an adult.



This message was edited Oct 1, 2005 9:11 PM

oh, Susan, what a gorgeous picture!

sorry i hogged the thread today. took me forever to ID that katydid! looked like a grasshopper to me LOL

one day i'll have a Digital Camera that takes great closeups of insects :-)

tf

Just found this new thread...Yes, TamaraFaye, I DO think you were going nuts! ;) lol...how do you react when you know the name of something and it's on the tip of your tongue, and you just..can't...remember...it...!! ? lol

I have never known GF cats to eat Angel's trumpets either! Brugs or Datura? They are fierce looking, but actually soft.

soulgardenlove - why thank you, but mostly I know this stuff, because bugs and critters is what I do as a job. I also went to college to learn some of it - like the info about molting.


And true, konkreteblonde, the Gulf Fritilary caterpillar spines do look fierce, but they are flexible and soft like you said. The spines do seem to be enough to keep wasps from eating them though, which is good for me, because I want the wasps to eat the bad caterpillars, not my babies.


TamaraFaye - I'm glad you found your katydid, and sorry I wasn't here to steer you in the right direction. Some katydid nymphs do get pinkish - it's for camoflauge. Here's a picture of one I saw in Corkscrew Swamp Sanctuary in Florida. I like katydids, because I like to hear them sing at night.

that is just beuatiful!

as i mentioned, mine looks just like a grasshopper... not like a katydid to me at all. and SHE doesn't sing at night :-(

do i understand right that they eat caterpillars and grasshoppers?

if so, her sentence has been reversed LOL i will see how soon she molts (er whatever) adn gets a new leg, then release her.

what in the world should i feed her? she is in an upside down glass inside a jar, so no flies can get to her... i put some of the ground cover she was caught on in the jar, but she hasn't eaten it...

Yikes NB, that thing might have some pink in it, but it sure doesn't make it gentle looking!

Wow! Great pic!! :)

Susan

if my little lady katydid doesn't grow back her leg, that means she is wingless. so she would be a matriarchal katydid? so cool. but not as pretty as yours, NB.

tf

TamaraFaye - as far as I know, most katydids eat leaves, and it could take a while for her to molt. If you decide to let her go, she should do fine even with only one leg until she molts. Either that or go ahead and give her her death sentence - heh. She probably won't be too happy in a glass jar.

Oh and it is only male katydids that "sing." They do that to attract the females, but it is also risky. Bats, other predators, and some parasites can use the noise to locate them, so singing can be risky.

And hee, konkreteblonde, I don't think the katydid wants to look gentle. That would make it look too much like "food" to other critters. I think that this one has pink more because the leaves have some pink.

wooh! you folks are blowing me away tell me more!!!

[i get to take our precious; g-hopper looking; more maroon than pink; possibly exotic; one-leg-left; almost escaped; katydid to the Research center this week! And it looks as though she has deposited eggs at least once in her jar. So i think i may give them a different jar LOL]

now back to our lessons, what do you have for us next Night_Bloom?

tf

Is this a friend or foe? It is EVERYWHERE in my sunflower garden.