DIY AeroCloner - EzCloner - U name it.

Very nice presentation man! I too have made very similar(almost exact) cloners. I too had to use a external pump in order to keep the water temps below 80 with my previous pumps. I have another design that uses a air pump and those cheap foot long ceramic airstones you see in the fish section at Walmart. They need to be submersed in a shorter containor and they produce a much finer mist via the bubbles breaking through the water.

I still use Rapid Rooter cubes with tarys/humidity domes alot. My passion flowers and some other plants wilt/damp off with out the domes and I can't seem to get away from that. Do you guys have any problems like this still with some plants?

Keep up the awesome work gents;)
JD

JD I've seen your design with the airstones & I love it, especially the finer mist than is possible with even a high pressure pump & misters. I would have built it except for the fact that I'm occasionally a plant slacker & I've been known to not look down in my growroom for over a week at a time. So I needed something that could still work good for 2 weeks without failure, but it looked like the airstone method really needed a consistent water level?
Any plan I came up with to add a reservoir to the airstone design seemed like lots more effort than just building the standard pump & mister design.
So what's the longest you can go without adding water to the airstone design?

JLD II -

So in your experiances when you used a submersible pump the water temps rose above 80 ?

Where they newer or older pumps?
Was the box in sun, shade, 50/50, lights?

I have seen some of the cloners that come with them underwater heaters....so I am wondering what is the max temp the water can be? Can the water be too hot for this not to work?

One more thing---

What size drill bit did you guys use for the misters?

if you misters are threaded , normally its a 10/32 thread .. i used the next size smaller
drill thats required for that tap since were just taping threads into PVC.

I think the normal is a #21 drill bit.

I did the same, just drilled 'em a little too small & threaded them by hand.
If you're worried about heat, a decent interval timer will solve that. Your pump only needs to be on for a few seconds every 15 min to an hour, or possibly even longer. They're expensive, but the plants like it better if they get almost dry (never fully dry), plus you get no real heat.

Oh! I was under the impression that this kinda system was goin to provide the cutting/plants with water 24/7!?

No! I'm not really worried about the heat... But I was asking that question in regrads to JLD_II's post...------->

" I too had to use a external pump in order to keep the water temps below 80"

I actually gone mine together. I havent taken any pics yet (have to borrow my moms sometime) but will asap.
Spec's:
-31 gallon
-526 gph pump
-45 clone sites
-uses (8) 180° misters
-1/2" scd 40 pvc

I used a 1 3/4" hole saw, and was planning on using the pipe insulators for a "collar" but found that it was to small for that size hole...blah...

Actually just looked on the thread and noticed that I got the wrong pipe insulation....Oh well one more trip to the man store never hurts... :)

I think I am goin to upgrade the misters to the spinning 360° ones as Vb pointed out in a PM. The 180°'s are not that uniform in the big container...

Very fun putting it togather..... :) Peace

Many people run them full time & that's just fine. You might find more success though with the very difficult types of plants with an interval timer. The plants do stay wet in that semi closed environment, but the interval increases the oxygen to the roots while still keeping it wet enough.
I use 360° nozzel type misters that are available at most hydroponics stores. They work great for me, but I do use plenty of 'em.

Everything is built, and right now its is ioutside...
I live in Jackonille , NC (7) should i put the box under shade or keep in full sun? The cuttings have been in the box for 5 days, and no luck so far...

Ive put in a little rooting and H202 on day 3.....

I keep mine indoors under flourescents, seems to work good for a wide variety of plants. I've never done outdoors, but I think I would try bright shade myself. I don't think midday sun is as good for them when they don't have any roots to support any top growth yet.
What are your minimum night temps like right now? Do you have a heater in the water?

This message was edited Apr 18, 2006 10:27 AM

Around the 50's ----been in the mid/high 80's during the day....

I have no room for indoors at this time so I'll have to see what happens outside....

The usual recommenadations for bottom heat in soil based media is around the 70's. I'm certainly no expert at aerocloning, but I would guess that if your minimums are in the 50's then I think most kinds of plants are more likely to just sit it out for a while until it warms up.
When mine were too cold in the basement this last winter without heat, I was suprised at how long many cuttings would just hang on with no change, some more than 3 months until it warmed up. I wasn't suprised at the time so much, but how well they kept for that long with no roots in the aerocloner.
How about an aquarium heater set on about 65deg with maybe a thermal blanket around your tub, like those big insulation blankets they make for putting around a hot water heater?

Well, I thought it would be to late in the season to use it but I did buy a aquarium heater form ebay.....and I got it yesterday! I to have noticed that the C. Box will keep things holding on till the time is right for roots to come....all leaves are still green, and even on the new/soft wood that came with the clipping....

I have 45 clone sites that are mostly filled with Cleveland Pears with some climbing roses....no roots yet.

So................
Did everyone build theirs ?
Did they work ?
Should I try it ?
any suggestions ?

Yes mine works very well for brug cuttings 1/2" diameter & larger that have turned to the woody brown color. Green cuttings not as well because I don't provide enough humidity for the top of the cutting. I still do those with perlite & a humidity dome.
These roots were about 3 weeks from cutting, mid-winter. Very fast. :^)
- Tom

I've always wondered with cloners, does it have to be done in a humid environment? B/c the cuttings stick out and would dry unless covered with clear plastic if grown in just a sunny window or something, right?

Yep. :^)
That's why this one works best with the more woody cuttings, becuase I haven't gotten around to raising the humidity around it yet.
- Tom

why couldnt you make the cloner and then buy a clear tote to flip upside down on top to keep the humidity up?

What a great thread! I am ready to build one of these for rooting cuttings and have a few questions.

Can you root hardwood cuttings in this system?

How often do you change the water?

Do you add any nutrients to root cuttings?

Has anyone found an inexpensive timer that will turn on the pump for a minute every 5 minutes?

Is there any advantage to add an aquarium bubbler? Doesn't the misting process mix enough oxygen with the water?

Yes, hardwood cutings.
I change the water usually only for new batches, unless you have access to filtered non-chlorinated.
Nutrients are possible, but not needed. They clog misters & make the water go bad faster. But it can be done if you have a hydroponics test-measuring-adjusting regimen.
Doesn't exist. Cheapest is around $125/Ebay cycle timer. I found one used for $25 on Craigslist.
Yes misters provide plenty of oxygen on their own. Bubblers are usually used with this kind of system _instead_ of misters. The popping of the bubbles causes fine droplets to be thrown around, simulating mist. If you already have misters, then perhaps they are using them to circulate the water and prevent a scum from developing on the surface.
- Tom

Since we had our first snow this weekend, it is time to bring my gardening inside. I built a unit with 6 shelves, each shelf has a 4 4 ft bulb floresent light. I am thinking of building a holding tank on the floor with the pump and connecting a long, shallow container on each shelf. My pump is a 320 gph and should provide plenty of spray for several units.

Do you see any problems with this design?

Bill it sounds like your design is for growing out plants, whereas ours above are really only for rooting. You'll need regular hydroponic nutrients & maintenance to grow them out. This is a higher level of care, quality of misters, pressure of pump, etc.
You might possibly consider a tiny aeroponic misting set-up for just rooting, and then a more traditional hydroponic system (like ebb and flow, etc.) for your grow out. It might be much easier to keep it working properly.

I am only planning to root cuttings. I just want to have an exandable system that will handle a lot of cuttings. I don't expect I will use all the shelves, only one or 2.

I bought a pond pump rated at 320 gpm. Do I have to worry about it not being to push that much water through the sprinklers? Should I design some type of safety valve to keep from putting too much pressure on the pump?

I went to a gardening supply store today and they had all their drip irrigatrion 1/2 off. They are getting out of that business. I want crazy and bought lots of stuff for my outside drip system as well as this new toy I am going to build. Then I went to Lowes and they had all their live plants at 75% off. For example, I bought a smoke tree in a 2 gal pot for $5. It was a good day

Do you have any idea how much pressure these pumps create?

One last question, I plan to root a lot of hardwood cuttings - at least try. If you are rooting 20 red twig dogwood hardwood cuttings would it make sense to cut a long grove in the top and use something that would allow you to put a whole bunch of cuttings about 1 inch apart in a row? Just an idea, but wondering if anyone has tried it.

I haven't tried that, but it makes sense to me. I am putting my cloner together this week. I can't wait to see what it does with some camellias and bottlebrush that normally take forever to root. I just have to find more space in the greenhouse. LOL

I built this unit and put a top on it, placing it under lights and included a water bed heater under it to maintain constant water temp. I have loaded it up with various rose cuttings. With the top on, the leaves stay satuated with condensed moisture. I am concerned that this may be too much moisture. Should I leave the top off? If I do, it will also allow for more light to the leaves.

That's possible Bill, but what I'm most concerned about is that it appears those cuttings are dipped in the water. The key principle to all these cloners is getting just baaaaaaarely enough moisture on the cutting to keep it going, and most use a wet/dry cycle to dry it off down to that level every hour or so.
If they are dipped in water they can't dry off, and won't get that super-saturated oxygen level and the on/off wet/dry cycle that kills disease pathogens that could keep a cutting from staying turgid longer.
So it looks like maybe your system will work good for cuttings that will already root ok in a glass of water, but perhaps not all the others that a true aeroponics unit can do.
- Tom

I know this is a different set up. I am still working on my aeroponics unit. I am not sure what you call the one in the picture - perhaps a bubbler. I have just about all the parts for the aeroponics unit and will be building it soon.

Thanks for your input.

You know Bill you can probably convert that one to aeroponics pretty easily. All it takes is some of those long skinny airstones (9" or 12" from my rough memory). Two of them can fill the tray with very fine bubbles that pop on the surface and create an upwards, very fine spray when they pop. The cuttings would be suspended up in the air above the popping bubbles and get the just-barely-damp that you want from the pop-spray. A cheap timer could turn this on & off every hour or so (15min on, 1 hour off).
This system does take a little closer watching/maintenance than pump-operated cloners, because the bubblers need to be near the surface, and optimal use will change if the water is let to evaporate too low; but the tradeoff is the ease of set-up, low cost, and simplicity.... plus they work great!
- Tom

That is a good suggestion. I already have one bubbler going in this unit. I could certainly raise the plants higher. I purchased a 320 gph pump and have most of the equipment to build a real aeroponics system. I am going to attempt to make it in a more shallow container than the one posted in this thread so I can put it under my lights. Since hardwood cuttings will supposedly root, I am going to wait until later in the winter and start it up with a bunch of hardwood cuttings. I can't do it this early because I would have no plact to put them until Spring.

If you would like to see a good time lapse video of roots growing go to this link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moBDMaEhMVA&NR=1

That is what we would all like to see.

Cool video Bill, thanks! The plants shown though are ones that would root in a glass of water. That system still won't work on many, many harder-to-root plants.
- Tom

OK, I finally finished my aerocloner like the one described in this thread. However, I it is leaking around the edge where the lid goes. Any suggestions on how to easily seal the unit where it won't leak, but I can still get the lid on and off easily?

I don't know if anyone is still using their aeropropagator, but I just built one a few weeks ago and have been excited to look inside daily to see the progress. I am beginning to see some roots!

I am having one problem. My unit is leaking water around the top edge of the container and dripping down on the floor. Does anyone have a suggestion to stop this?

Adhesive weatherstripping tilted in, or you can try finding a better basin where the water runs back inside. Some of the new ones have lids that can be turned upside down and work perfectly.
-Tom

Thanks, the weather stripping sounds like a great idea.

I have been looking for a timer for my propagation needs for a long time and found what I think is ideal for me. It is an electric timer that will run 6 stations and will turn on from 1 second and up and will allow any amount of time between cycles you want and it is only $80. I have already ordered it and hope it does all it promises.

http://mistkits.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66&products_id=187

As mentioned earlier, I bought a DIG 5006-IP timer to handle misting. I thought it would turn my pump on and off periodically, but found it requires a 24 volt AC relay to turn on the 110 volt pump. The picture below shows how I took a short home made extension cord and tied the relay into it along with the wires from the timer. The timer is not very intuitive and took me a long time to get it working right, but now I have the pump spraying in the aeropropagator only 15 seconds every 10 minutes which is plenty for my cuttings. It is working great, but only downside is the cots. I had decided to buy the timer which was $80, but had not planned on the additional $40 for the relay and a plastic box to mount it.

I bought the timer from Mistkits.com and was very pleased with the support provided to get it working. Without the support, I am not sure I would have ever figured it out. I probably wouldn't have spent the money for this if this was all it would do, but I plan to use the timer to control a misting system for cuttings this summer. This timer will control 6 different valves which is more than enough for my needs. I could have it control my whole yard sprinkler system too, but that is already covered.

I put the pump relay in a plastic box to make it safe. Now I just plug the cord from the box into the wall and plug the pump into the other side. The controller works great. I initially set it to come on 30 seconds every 5 minutes. Now I have it running at 30 seconds every 10 minutes and it seems to be fine.

Since I have been studying about the importance of oxygen in plants, I am wondering if enough oxygen gets to the roots in this setup since it is basically a closed system. Does anyone have a way to introduce more fresh air in the unit? I think some fresh air inside would be a good thing.

I am sad to say I have retired my bubbler. I set it up several months ago and anticipated a great deal of success. I know I may have had better luck if my tub had been a solid color instead of clear plastic, but since the top was not light proof, it ma have not made that much difference. I continued to have serious problems with algae growing on the base of the cuttings where the should have been putting on roots. I changed the water often and washed the algae off with a hard spray of water. I finally decided to move all of those cuttings to pots with dirt and a plastic bag over them. I am sure some cuttings that are easy to root will do fine in the bubbler, but the algae problems were too much for me.

On a very positive note however, I am having continued success with the aeropropagation system as described in this thread. I was beginning to have algae build up on the bottom of the cuttings like in the bubbler, but never as bad. About 2 weeks ago I ran a tube from my dad's oxygen concentrator to the aero-propagator and when I took the lid off for the first time yesterday, to my surprise, there was no algae. The water was very clear and the ends of the cuttings were algae-free.

Dad is only going to be here another few weeks and I could never afford a concentrator, but I am going to use it as long as I can. I also add h2o2 to the water to help with the algae. Since I was putting it in the bubbler also, I see that the aeropropagation is just a better option for me. Yes, it is more complicated, but well worth it.

I guess the next thing is to add nutrients and start growing veg. inside. My wife only thinks this is worth while if I am producing food with it.

Bill consider switching your container to opaque instead of clear, askin for trouble there, and it's only about $10.
For air, you can leave one of the holes open at the top or add a $10 aquarium pump with small tubing.
When you make the jump to growing instead of just rooting clones, many have found that that when you also of course have to start using nutrients & monitoring ph, that it is much easier with a more standard ebb and flow type hydroponics than one of these pump/jet/spray aeroponics, which can easily clog in a grow-type operation.