Wanted any info on Gel Propagation

Has anyone used the gel?
What were your results?
Is there anything I could use that would be close to gel that I could mix or make myself?
Thanks,Jody

I've heard gelatin works in a similar way, but have not tried gelatin all by itself.

However, I read an article a few years ago in a garden magazine in which a guy described a technique used by his French Grandmother...

He said she made her own peat pot type starters, by mixing gelatin with water according to the directions, and then immediately using the gelatin water to wet the soil. She stirred the soil really well and added soil or more water until the mix was just right. Then she formed them into little squatty balls. The gelatin not only helped hold the soil together, but was supposed to be a great aid in feeding the little seedling.
I tried it, and it worked pretty well!
-T

Cool,I'll give it a go.lol.Jody

Double cool, I'm gonna try this, too!

Is this for cuttings or seed?Jody

It is for starters for germinating seeds
-T

In a catalog I just got it was used for rooting cuttings.Wonder if it does both? Of course it was just gel no soil.Jody

I saw that too. I've heard of people rooting things in pure gelatin, but have never tried it.
I've heard if there are any mold spores in the air, they will grow faster than the cutting, so didn't want to spend all that time to just culture mold! lol...
-T

It's expensive.lol.Jody

This sounds like a neat way of starting seeds. What kind of gelatin are we talking about? What would be the proper directions to make it with the soil?
:) Donna

knox gelatin(unflavored). Mix according to package directions and use the gelatin water to wet your soilstarter mix, instead of just plain water. You have to mix immediately, though, so you will have time to mix it in the soil and make little "pots", before it begins to set...
The gelatin helps hold the soil together and is supposed to have a content that seedlings feed on(minerals? nitrogen?)-not really sure, as I have forgotten and don't want to state incorrectly...

JodyC, is this the gel that you are referring to.

http://www.ttseeds.com/CAD/cad.php

When the link opens, go to 'Search' in upper left corner & type in 3005.This is the first year I have seen this but I am going to give it a try on a couple of seeds that I have trouble germinating. I have used the Knox gelatin before for watering my house plants & it works well to keep them nice & green. Have never tried it for seed starting but I am going to give it a try.

I found it.
http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/catalog/index.cfm?page=_ProductDetails&ProductId=8141

http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/catalog/index.cfm?page=_ProductDetails&ProductId=8145

I really like that catalog. I have received it for a year or two, now...can't purchase anything in it, but love to browse! lol...
-T

I've seen those before. Lee Valley sells them.

http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.asp?page=46944&SID=&ccurrency=1&category=2%2C47236

This is in Cdn $. I didn't check the US $. I'm almost positive someone on DG used these last fall & reported on them but I can't remember who it was.

I'd like to know how good it works.lol.Jody

I'm of the notion that this gel is a polyacrylamide copolymer, super-absorbent crystals that absorbs up to 200 times it weight in water and are viable for 8 years.
These are sold dry by different companies. Mine are called "Water Saver" and sold dry in 2# jar for about $15. at Lowes or HD.
They are great at grabbing water as it runs through my sand at high speed.

These are used in disposible diapers, and also make the new stuff they cover houses with when they are in the path of a fire here in Florida. (Firemen were noticeing wet disposible diapers weren't burned in house fires.)

They are also sold in tubes, already soaked and I think that's the product in those sixpacks above.

They were sold dry in colors in glass tubes on QVC for $$.
My OVC cousin said her cut Irises lasted a long time in these last spring.

Now, how to duplicate the $12+ postage six-packs above for pennies.
I'll do some test and see.
Sidney

Sidney,
Please let me know what you come up with.Any body ever use diapers.Take off the plastic and wala rooted roses.lol.Jody

Jerry Baker said something about used (wet only) diapers on PBS.

Okay 1tsp crystals in 1cup water looked like chipped clear ice in 1 hour

Added 1/2 cup more water to see if crystals would hold more water.

30mins later added 1/2tsp more crystals.

30mins later more like chipped clear ice, held metal fork vertical in middle of container.

Added 1 oz. of Peter's Strong-Start liquid 4-16-8 starter solution.

Turned entire container to soup.

LOL

Will put it on something and start over.

Oh no! Bummer.LOL.Let me know how it goes.Jody

Okay, here goes,
Added .5 liter bottled water to 1 & 1/2 teaspoon Water crystals. This filled a 2 cup measure with gel.
I took a large clear cranberry juice jar and cut the top off. It had a convex place in the middle, as to displace some area that didn't need to be filled with gel anyhow.

I just bought 2 bottles of the gel from Charley's Greenhouse, Jody. I want to propagate up a bunch of my Clerodendrum and Thunbergia this winter.

Joseph

Then I put the gel into bottle bottom. I sterilized this first with clorox and water.
I covered it with plastic wrap secured with rubber band and cut 6 slits in that.
Took a coleus purchased at end of season sale just for propagation.
Took 6 cuttings and put in slits.

One more clearer picture. Now just a prayer.(;>)

sugerweed,
I'm going to try some of that.As soon as I get somewhere to by it.lol.I'm 45 miles from lowes/menards.I order through the mail mostly.I usually don't feel good enough for the drive to begin with.Keep us updated.Jody

Jody, look on-line, as finding it in stores is spotty. These stay-moist mixtures all have it in them.

This is the best price I've come across so far:

http://www.watersorb.com/prices.htm

Now you have my curiosity up about this, lol!

Diana

You can choose the size of the crystals too. I might try a 5 lb bag of the large size....this could be interesting, lol!

Diana

Diana, what a great site, I'm not realsure what size these are, but here is a photo. I would think a respirator would be manditory when using the powder, inhale, expand, not a pretty idea. That powder maybe what they use for the Gel six-packs?
While this was downloading I went all over this site and there is alot of fun things to do with this medium, but they didn't mention "rooting".

Maybe the powder would be a better choice for rooting in, sugarweed. Probably easier for the new roots to penetrate the medium....Jody we could try using the peroxide solution to hydrate the crystals with, then not have to worry about any damping off or blackened stems maybe. I don't see why the rooting hormone couldn't be used with this also. Unless any of these chemicals break down the polymer like the ferts seem to do in sugarweed's experiment.

Diana

I hydrated some Jiffies with peroxide solution. I'll go try hydrating some crystals with the same right now.
The first experiment I did above, was going great until I added super start stuff.
Well, now where I poured out that experiment, crystals have returned to the water retentive gel stage. The resulting syrup poured through my sand and the crystals reformed on top. I will use this in the bottom of a hole when I plant a thirsty plant.

Great, let us know how it turns out :)
Funny how those crystals reformed on top of the sand instead of at the bottom isn't it?
Good point about the dust getting into your lungs, do you think a mask would be sufficient, I have several of those but no respirator.

Diana

Diana,
Gel crystals and H/P combo.Sounds good to me.Might just work too.
No extra funds for gel right now,just bought coir.lol.

I'm sticking with the H/P spray for the roses though,mine seem to be very happy since I started spraying them with the H/P water.No more blackening going on here.Yay!Jody

The MSD says dust mask is fine. I'm just trying to figure 0ut the right size.

Maybe little to start seeds and bigger to do cuttings with.
Just an idea,I have no idea really.lol.
Are you doing cuttings or seeds?
I'll be starting my first coir experimenting with an 8% rooting powder
that the Great and wonderful DianaT sent me along with all those fantastic rose cuttings.
I still have to look some of them up.
Pray for me to root at least one cutting of each.lol.Wouldn't that be nice!
Thanks again Diana.
Be back soon.Jody

Those dry crystals above make a gel "bean" about the size of a black-eyed pea. There has been no proublem with peroxide solution added to activate crystals. I have another donor coleus I'll try with solution crystals and rooting powder.

Cool,keep us up to date.When I strike it rich.I'll buy some and give it a go too.Unless of course something goes wrong.Hope it works.I've never started coleus cuttings so I don't know how hard they are to root?They would be considered softwood?Jody

They are very soft wood simlair to impatients and those alcoholic begonias. When it's March through October I fil pots i have used time and again with soil. Then cut, dip, plant and water, slide em under or behind a bush water again and forget them. In a few weeks it's like bringing home a whole new flat of plants. Sometimes I'm gone 2 months and they are leggy and root bound, but almost never loose one. I'd just like to have some to start with a big bang this spring.
Sidney

Lol Jody! You reminded me of that scene in Wizard of Oz where Toto pulls down the curtain and there is the Great and wonderful Oz looking like a plain ole ordinary man :) You are very welcome and I know you'll be a great rose mom.

Sugarweed that is SO interesting, I may have to go buy a pound of those crystals just to play with. Now which store did I see them at ....

Diana

Diana, the prices at the web site you found above are better than I can buy it at Lowes or HD, including postage. I will get 2# of powder, and I havent decided what I'll get 10#s of, but I'm still studying.

Call before you drive, because both are spotty about carrying this.

I did read far enough to find that the diaper poly is polyacryLATE, which absorbs more, but breaks down in quickly in sun light.
The garden poly is polyacrylamide which has been developed to absorb efficiently and last longer.

I paid over $15. for either of the two 2# bottles I bought. The first time I bought it the prices were $3. for one ounce, it was a scam and I knew somewhere I could get more for less $.

I have been using this for several years in drought proofing my plantings.

BEWARE, don't plant anything with this that needs to dry between waterings, or this will "drown" the roots.

http://www.watersorb.com/application.htm is the page about crystal size and where to use them.

Sidney

This message was edited Jan 15, 2005 11:29 AM