Wisteria question! I need help!

Hi! I am a very new gardener and I have been told recently that Wisteria is not a good thing to let grow up a brick wall, as it supposedly will make the mortar crumble eventually. Is this so? If so, what should I do? Would putting wooden trellises in front of the brick help at all? I have this stuff growing at least 18 feet up the brick archway of my front door! What should I do? I also have two of them leaning up against a brick wall in my backyard, against the house. Should I move them forward and put trellises there? I wanted my Wisteria for the longest time, and now I'm getting all these horror stories!

Can anybody tell me the real story?

Also, if I just keep cutting it, will it keep it from overtaking the Earth? The Chinese stuff grows so fast, I fear for my little doggies! LOL

What about making it into a little tree? How is that done?

I am not sure, but I only think you have to worry about vining plants that have suckers at the end of their tendrils like boston ivy or regular ivy that force their way into the mortar between the bricks. To my knowledge wisteria climbs by wrapping around things. The problem with it is that you need to have something pretty strong in place that will not degrade with time. Wisteria will shredd small and even large wooden arbors in time. There is a car wash down the way that has about 10 growing all over a large ornate wooden trellis. It must be decades old. They keep adding 2x4's to support the structure because the vines are so tenaceous. I do not think it will hurt brick. I saw decade old secimins in DC that were on walls. If you plan to add a trellis to give it more purchase, you should probably make it out of heavy metal.

This message was edited May 9, 2004 1:01 AM

This message was edited May 9, 2004 1:02 AM

Okay, thanks! That's what the landscaper said, but then recently, I was told that other story! Don't you hate that?

My husband said he thought metal was the way to go if we wanted to put a small arch or arbor thing for it to climb up. I just wanted the whole brick wall to be covered with the stuff!

Unfortunately, I have some growing on some thick lattice fencing that is surrounding the deck we had built last year. Now, I guess, in the future, we will have to have the lattice replaced, huh? Oh well! Who knows where I'll be by then! LOL

Meanwhile, I'll just enjoy the pretty flowers.

Oh, do you know, once it flowers, should I cut off the stems where the petals used to be, or just leave them alone? Will it flower any more this year?

Heres a great article about pruning wisteria. hope it helps ya some
www.plantamnesty.org/pruning_tips/pt_wisteria.htm

Wow, thanks a lot, MSJen! I appreciate it!

Wisteria can lift your house up from it's foundation,lol. I do not recommend planting it on your house.

I had to cut mine down from the chimeny cause the weight of it was gunna pull it down....

This stuff is horrible! But it is so pretty... but horrible too! LOL smells so good....bad bad bad!

Heres my wisteria tree.......far far away from the house. Its probably 100+ years old
Jen

Okay, now I'm in trouble! Not only do I have some planted in the back on around a deck on trellises, but I have two that are going about 20 feet up the brick archway by the front door!

This is what I get when a landscaper either doesn't know or doesn't care, huh?

What should I do with the big ones out front? If I have them removed, can they be replanted away from the house? Will they probably die? Oh, wait, I forgot, you can't kill it Um, how the heck do you make it into a tree?

Oh, why did I ever finally get my wish????

DivaSharon,
I am in the process of training one of mine into a tree. It is working very well & VERY fast. After researching it on the internet, I learned that all you need to do is take a nice straight vine & stake it up. Then cut off all the sprouts below it. It will sprout more & the one you tied up will get longer, and then you just do it all over again. I just staked mine higher this morning & trimmed off the extra. I am going to post a pic of it so you will know what I mean. On mine you will notice a large bend above a stump towards the bottom. This is because I bought this as a bare root & that was the top. Since it is for me, I really don't care. But if I was doing it for a gift for someone, I would use one I started from seed. Of course it would not bloom for a long time, but it will eventually. :)
Donna

Diva, there is no need to be alarmed over something that you can control. MsJen provided a very good link on pruning. If you prune yours properly, you can control the shape and appearance of your vines, and they won't take over anything.

CWBYNCMH is correct that wisteria vines don't cling or stick or adhere so they can't damage a brick wall. They twine around a support. The branches will become heavy over time, and since wood erodes easily, metal supports are generally best.

The people who have horror stories about wisterias are the same people who either didn't ever prune their wisteria or who moved into a house where the previous owners didn't ever prune their wisteria. Wisterias require maintenance. Some people are willing to take the time and the trouble to maintain them, and some aren't.

You can prune your wisteria into the shape of a tree over time.

The best way to keep people's horror stories from alarming you is to educate yourself. These site were found just doing a basic Google search:

http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1246.html
http://www.rippingale.com/wisfaq.html
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0881923184/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-1976528-1922539#reader-link
http://www.botany.com/wisteria.html
http://www.plantamnesty.org/pruning_tips/pt_wisteria.htm
http://www.gardenseeker.com/pruning/pruning_wisteria_.htm
http://plantsdatabase.com/go/55392/

Thank you all for the great information and links! You are right, I shouldn't worry because I'M the one with the pruning shears! LOL


MsJen, your picture is gorgeous! I would love if mine looked like that! Mine have only been planted since last year, but flowered right away.

Donna, thanks for showing me how you are making yours into a tree too. Very helpful.

Clare, thanks for the reassurance and the links! I really appreciate your taking the time to do that for me.

I will take care of them and not fear those silly stories I heard anymore.

Here is a picture of two of them planted by a wall in my back yard. Anybody have any suggestions as to how I should train them? My initial idea was that I wanted the wall to be covered in Wisteria. What do you think? The one on the left is purple and the new one on the right, just planted, is pink. It's growing so fast, I can't stand too close for fear of it wrapping itself around my ankle! Not exactly kidding either! I can see hourly changes! LOL

This pic was taken about three weeks ago and they are so much bigger than this already! The new one has put out a vine four feet longer than it was in this picture! I have wrapped it around itself for now.

Here's another perspective of the two Wisteria...maybe you have an idea about how it would look best?

- I'm telling ya Diva... that stuff is bad news when planted on your house. You should see it here in Florida- it covers EVERYTHING. It gets into sewers and rips siding off. Good luck keeping it contained!

Yours looks good though. :)

Diva, good for you! Just remember that it can't do any harm to any structures as long as you don't let it, and it would take years of neglect to get to that point. The only way it can cause any harm is if you ignore it for about five years. I keep mine pruned as a tree, and it is very well-behaved. I'm only sorry that people feel the need to disparage one of the most beautiful vines in the world.

Here's a close-up of my pink "Honibeni."

By the way, I currently have eight different varieties of wisterias.

So, this was a bad idea, huh? Oh boy....

Yes, if controlled. Problem is most people don't tend to a wisteria as they should. It is taking over our woods and choking our natives out. I have both white and purple- and love them both- but I also know how bad they can be if not contained.

It's a good idea. Once you've had a chance to read the Plant Amnesty pruning web site, you'll get an idea how to prune, and after a few years when you've got a main frame, pruning will be downright easy.

Oh Clare, yours are so beautiful! All those different kinds! How amazing! The second one looks like orchids!

I agree with you that it's one of the world's most beautiful vines, and that's why I yearned for them for so long and was so thrilled to have a house where I could finally have them! I always pictured a doorway with a big arch (which we have, about 20 feet high), just dripping with Wisteria! It's grown all the way to the top of the sides, but hasn't gone over the arch yet. But this year, I think it will. It's been planted for two years. I think I just have to keep it away from the gutters of the roof, right?

Anyway, I will read all those links you gave me and try to understand about how to prune it. I did some pruning today, just using my instincts to get rid of the dead flowers. Hope I did right. It's hard, not having a person to actually show me the proper angle to cut, and how far down to cut, etc. I'm not so good at understanding diagrams or descriptions, do much better hands-on.

Well, thanks again, everybody, for being so welcoming and helpful on my first couple of days here! This is such a nice place! I think I will love this new hobby!

Here is a picture of a butterfly taking a drink from my Wisteria!

Diva,

I didn't realize that you are new here. Let me say, "Welcome!"

Your pictures are lovely, and I think your arch idea is wonderful. I've seen other pictures with one on each side, framing the door, and it is simply stunning! I've loved wisterias for years, and I finally bought Peter Valder's book on wisterias. I put a link to Amazon.com above for you in case you are interested in it. His book is very informative and includes the most amazing pictures. Some of his pictures were taken in China and Japan and show a wisteria in the 1940's and the exact same wisteria in the 1990's. It's truly amazing. I've spent hours doing Internet searches for wisteria and have run across amazing pictures as well.

As for pruning, yes, if you see a vine reaching for somewhere it should not go, lop it off! Pruning is easy once you understand the basic concept. Since wisteria flowers on old wood, you want to leave some nodes on each branch for next year's flowers. You can't go wrong with wisteria. It is very forgiving. That Plant Amnesty pruning site is very straightfoward and has pictures and diagrams so I know you will understand it once you read it. Also, it is natural to have some die-back so don't be alarmed if some of your vines turn brown at the ends and die back a little.

Thank you Clare! I will keep you posted as I read those links!

I can tell you I know Wisteria is forgiving, because last year, we were having the deck built and it took way longer than we thought. Four Wisterias that looked fluffy and wonderful in their large pots became sad and wilted and eventually, by the time they were planted when the deck and fencing was finished, we thought they were dead! The fence guy said not to worry, he fed them and said they would come back this year. Well, those are the ones you see in the picture on the lattice fence. They looked like dead twigs! I didn't touch them and they came back and flowered like mad! There is one on the other side you can't see and it's taller than I am! And just planted last year! I feel lucky that I've been able to enjoy flowers right away, when I know so many people lament the fact that they don't see flowers for years.

Having Wisteria is really a dream come true for me! I hope I can find some new and interesting varieties someday like yours!

I told my husband tonight that we don't have to worry and have the huge ones by the front door removed and he was happy! That information alone was worth the price of subsciption to Dave's Garden! LOL!

That gateway is FANTASTIC!!!! I think that lattice is a bit weak for wisteria, but you should have a few years before it gets to that point.
Crimson is correct in that it does take over everything if left unattended. Its been known to rip power lines from the poles, sucker in to sewers, strangle cows as they eat...etc
The key to it like someone said is for YOU to control where it goes. I'm still fighting suckers from the neighbors yard, and feel like im constantly going out there with total veg killer just to keep it at bay.
What type is that you have pictured? Its gorgeous. The blooms look almost round versus elongated. I love it.
The one in the pic above was a monster (still is actually) that was so out of control when we moved here. It took a while to finally find the main trunk. I usually do a heavy prune in mid summer. Just be careful not to prune to late because youll cut next years buds off.
Welcome to daves!!
Jen
p.s. on a side note, a few years ago we armed ourselves with a shovel, gas, total veg killer, loppers, pickup truck and chains (everything short of the national guard) to clean this hedgerow off. We used it all, lopped it, dug and pulled, burned the stump, and THEN poured total veg killer. Guess what, its Bacccccccckkkkkk. Scrambling up the oak. I know its the same one because its growing in the SAME hole that was left.

HAHAHAH! What a story about you trying to kill and burn the thing! And it didn't work! What a riot! How could this stuff be that powerful?

Well, I know now that the lattice, although it's much thicker and stronger than the typical stuff, isn't going to last in the long run. Didn't know that when we had it built last Summer to surround the new deck. I just wanted my deck to be eventually dripping with Wisteria walls! LOL I love fragrant flowers, Pink Jasmine being next in line! Well, I'll have to worry about that later! LOL


Honestly, I don't know the Botanical name for that particular variety! The tag on it just says, Wisteria, Lavender! Isn't that funny? My newer one, that is supposed to flower pink, says Wisteria Sinensis. Yes, I agree, the flowers are not as elongated as some I've seen. The buds are quite long, but when they opened, they did appear to be rounder!

Now the flowers are gone and I am not exactly sure what to cut off. I cut the stalks that were now devoid of petals, but mostly didn't cut the whole stem beyond the flower. I read the article you directed me to, and I only understood SOME of it, because they used terms I didn't know very well. I understood about the main trunk and the scaffolds and laterals, but am still not quite sure about how much of those incredibly long shoots to cut off, or even why! There is one that is so long, I just let it reach out and join "hands" with the one next to it. I had thought that pink and purple Wisteria together would be wonderful when they both bloom.
I hate to think that I may have to break down and call my landscaper for a consultation (she charges too much!) and have a lesson in Wisteria and rose pruning! Sigh. I'm having the same dilemma with my patio rose trees!

Well, thanks again and will keep you posted of any new Wisteria developments around here! You are all so nice and this is a lot of fun! Keeps me away from that other Board I used to go to (people not so nice over there, LOL!)

By the way, are your still flowering? Is it normal for mine to already be done for the season? How sad. That was quick!

Roflol @ your comment. Reminds me of the phrase 1 night of pleasure=18 years of pain.
mine blooms in march...nope, no more flowers, just bunches of leaves. ill try to take a pic of the monster tomorrow. its in need of a haircut.
if youre really trying to get the height, id try to let the upper and mid shoots grow. just be cautious of the ones near the ground. (they grow like 100 ft a minute, lol) the good thing about wisteria is i think the ONLY thing you can do wrong to it is to prune in to late in the fall, therefore preventing the flowering the next year.
im really not an expert, just know what i've dont to control my tree. Like right now, i need to trim the top and sides, but underneath i have to physically pull the runners.
then of course you have the seed pods that get ripe and go "kazingggggggggg" sprewing the seeds from here to new york.
lol
jen

Uh oh, what do the seed pods look like??? I hope I didn't cut them off or do something wrong?

The only thing I cut off today was the part that used to be the flower, like a long, bald stalk. Uh, that's not the seed pod, is it? LOL Am I dumb, or what?

Got any pics of seed pods? Oh, I'm too dumb to be a Wisteria keeper! sob

you wouldv'e noticed the seed pod, but if it just finished blooming, the pod may not have developed yet.
I really think you can take a breath and step back. Wisteria is one of those plants that once you have it, you have it. i never water or feed it. in a few years you'll be out with a chainsaw (forgot to add we also had one of those out there that day) trying to convince yourself or the wisteria that you are the boss.
heres a link about the "popping" that i was talking about. www.mastergardeners.org/publications/wisteria/wisteriaSeedPods.html
jen

Oh! I see! Well, that dumb, I'm not! If I had seen something like those pods, I probaby would have thought they were cocoons and run the other way! LOL

Okay, I will stop obsessing about it now. I will just let it be for a while. It's not hurting anybody...yet...ACK! Where are my little doggies???? Have you seen them????

The article explained it so well....I can't wait for this! But how did I miss it last year with the ones around the front door?????? Maybe they'll chase the birds away that keep nesting in the archway! I'm sick of scrubbing the front step! LOL

Hi Diva, yes, the seedpods are noticeable if you are lucky enough to get them. I believe you have to have two genetically different wisterias in order for cross-pollination to occur (not to mention an actual pollinator). If you are responsible about pruning once or twice a year, you shouldn't need a chainsaw...just a pair of pruners. Like I said before, it is those wisterias which were previously neglected which can grow to huge proportions.

I agree with MsJen that your flowers look rounder than I've seen before. You know, I know a little bit about Chinese and Japanese wisterias but not alot about American wisterias. The round shape of your wisteria makes me think it could be Wisteria frutescens, which is native to the south-eastern United States from Virginia to Florida.

Hi Clare! Thanks for trying to ID this for me! I was thinking today about trying to look it up somehow...

Guess what? I thought they were done flowering, but today, I found a whole new crop of purple buds! I didn't know they would keep flowering! I'm so excited!

I also bought masonry nails and green stuff to tie it up with...time to start directing it to cover that brick wall!

I'm enjoying this hobby very much...I just planted some other stuff tonight right before the went down. Since I don't go in the sun, my planting window is small, so I had to work fast and only got three done before I got too muddy and tired! LOL If I can get up really early, I will plant more tomorrow...

Here's another shot of those round flowers.

Oh, Clare, if cross-pollination occurs, then I would get the seed pods? So, did I do a good thing by planting two different kinds right next to each other? The one next to the purple one there is a Wisteria Sinensis, which should have the longer, pink blooms. I just thought it would be nice to see the whole wall covered with both colors, eventually. I don't think the pink one will flower this year...I don't see any flower buds at all, just new shoots.

So, if the purple one is American Wisteria, and the pink is Chinese, that's kinda like my DH and me...he's Asian and I'm not! LOL Must be why I did it...

Clare, I just did a search on Wisteria Frutescens and I believe you found it! The name Amethyst Falls is ringing a bell and I feel very lucky, now that I know the difference, that when I asked my landscaper for purple Wisteria, that this is what I got! Supposedly, this one is easier to control and it flowers on new growth as well as old, and is supposed to flower again into Summer! I'm thrilled to know what I have! Thank you!

Sharon, LOL! Yes, you must have planted wisterias to represent you and your husband! Those two colors will be pretty together. I have a Wisteria sinensis "Cooke's Purple" and a Wisteria floribunda "Honibeni" (pink) growing together over the metal arch in the picture below. They are actually both trained as standards and are growing in containers.

Those round flowers are definitely different-looking. Yes, I thing cross-pollination can occur -- by bees, I think -- between the two different wisterias. The result will be a hybrid of unique unknown color.

I'm glad that I was able to help you identify your Wisteria. I too have heard that American Wisteria is easier to control, and it's great that it flowers on old wood and new wood. Here is what Peter Valder says about "Amethyst Falls":

"A selected form found in Oconee County, South Carolina. There is a plant in the Arboretum of the North Carolina State University at Raleigh."

It sounds like your landscaper picked a winner!

Just wanted to let you guys know that the picture that shows my two different varieties of Wisteria, American Wisteria Frutescens on the left and Asian Wisteria Sinensis on the right, have grown so much in a couple of months that they are now just about covering the area of the brick wall visible in the above pictures! And while I was away for three weeks, the Asian variety grew at least six feet and wrapped itself around the cable and telephone boxes! I had to cut it away, it was wrapped so tight! I couldn't pull if off!

And now, they're both intertwined so much that I can't tell which vines are which, on the parts in the middle of them! I have already had three crops of purple flowers on the American variety, but maybe next year, the Asian one will give me pink flowers. The American kind flowers on new growth, and since it keeps growing, I think it will probably flower again! And on the lattice gate, it's woven itself in and out and gone all the way to the top in some areas!

This stuff is wild! I love it!

I'll take new pics and show you when I can.

Congratulations, Sharon. I do appreciate when things grow well like they are supposed to!

Sharon or anyone, please tell me if it has a good fragrance or not? I just looked at our DB where someone said it has a "musky scent", do you like it? I just found one, and am considering where to plant it.

Thanks,
Vi

Vi, yes, I like it and yes, it does have a different scent than you might expect. It's sweet smelling, but not as sweet as other flowers. Very unusual and interesting scent.

I had no choice when I got these, because I just asked for purple wisteria and that's what the landscaper delivered.

I think you should go for it! One of the nicest things about it is that it flowers on new growth, so you'll have flowers right away and it'll flower several times during the season. I've had it flower at least three times since May and I'll bet it's not done.

Look at how much this stuff has grown in about three months!
I posted the "before" pictures of these two varieties up above, back in May. Scroll up and see! I used Miracle grow and it seems to have worked. I didn't use it on my other ones and they didn't grow nearly as much! I've already had to cut it back because it was taking over the utility meters! Can't wait until the pink Asian one on the right flowers, I hope, next year!