Cellulose Sponges vs. rockwool vs. foamy type sponges

The following is a list of what I started:

Acer Palmatum 'atropurpureum' Rockwool 2
Acer Palmatum 'atropurpureum' Foamy Sponges 2
Amsomia Foamy Sponges 2
Amsomia Rockwool 2
Datura Lt. Blue Rockwool 4
Datura Lt. Blue Foamy Sponges 4
Datura Double Yellow Rockwool 1
Datura Double Yellow Foamy Sponges 1
Morning Glory Blue and Pink Silks Rockwool 6
Morning Glory Blue and Pink Silks Foamy Sponges 6
Morning Glory Blue and Pink Silks Cellulose Sponge 5

The daturas, acers, and amsomia have done nothing yet but the results of the morning glories is interesting.

Rockwool 5 out of 6 have germinated
cellulose 3 out of 5 have germinated
foamy 3 out of 6 have germinated
The interesting part is that the ones in rockwool are all ready larger than either of the others.
Next best is the cellulose sponges with the foamy ones coming in last.
I will post a couple photos for you to see, but so far the rockwool is definitely winning hands down.
I really wish I had some of those cocoa cube things to play with too. I just can't justify buying many more toys!!!
I probably will keep using the sponges, I am still happy with the results I am having, the cellulose ones do hold moisture better, so I think I will switch to those. I will save the rockwool for the things like brugs that I want to be very successful with.

These are the ones in Cellulose

Here are the foamy sponges, although there isn't much to see, I had to open a little to see that they did have roots and had started to develop.

Thanks for the report. (It looks like you have been having too much fun.)
I think I'll be getting some cellulose sponges. Looks like a really good way to start seed to go into a hydroponic system.

Much to my amazement this afternoon when I looked the sponges are trying to catch up. I don't think the foamy ones will but the cellulose might. It is incredible have fast these have sprouted. I did not nick these seeds at all and they have started much faster than the ones I did nick.
I guess thats a lesson in itself.

Alice: Thanks for starting the experiment! I have a similar one going with brug seeds. Nothing yet :(

What was the date that you planted these? I'm curious about the germination time on your MG's -- I planted 20 Heavenly Blues in RW last night... Thanks! Gretchen

Gretchen
I started everything on 1/26 and the picture thats posted is from 1/29 so you can expect some pretty fast results from the morning glories.
I should go take another picture because I am amazed that the sponges are starting to catch up, although I think the rockwool cubes are developing roots faster.
It really is fascinating, I promise some pictures later today and I will try to do some of the roots to.

I just posted this information in your thread. Not sure which thread is the most appropriate one. Here it is again....
http://www.gtghydroponics.com/faq.asp#hydtype

What are the different types of hydroponic media?

Rockwool
Rockwool is a fairly recent addition to the types of growing mediums available on the market. This sterile, porous, nondegradable medium is composed primarily of granite or limestone which is melted and spun like cotton candy. Rockwool is then formed into blocks, sheets, cubes, slabs, or flocking. Rockwool absorbs moisture without holding nutrients, and even when it is completely saturated still retains 20% air for your root system.

L.E.C.A.
L.E.C.A. stone is a type of clay which is super-fired to create a porous medium. It is also heavy enough to provide secure support for your plants' root systems. This non-degradable, sterile growing medium holds moisture, has a neutral pH, and also will wick nutrient solution to the root systems of your plants. L.E.C.A. is often the growing medium of choice of novices and professionals alike because it is easy to use.

Perlite
Perlite is primarily composed of minerals subjected to intense heat which expand and become very absorbent. This material is light, has a neutral pH, excellent wicking action, and is very porous. Perlite is used in a wide variety of hydroponic systems because of its ability to hold moisture and nutrients as well as air, and also because it is very easy to use.

Coconut Fiber
An alternative to using rockwool, Coconut fiber is the first "organic" medium to offer high performance in modern hydroponic applications. Coconut fiber can also be added into soil mixtures to increase water holding capacity. Coconut fiber holds more oxygen than rockwool and is pH neutral. Available as compressed bricks, when Coconut fiber is soaked in water it expands to 6 times its compressed size. Many growers have found that a 50/50 mix of coconut fiber and L.E.C.A is the perfect organic medium.

Thanks so much for the info, I have been looking in a catalogue that I had gotten recently trying to figure out something that would work as well as the rockwool. I don't like the feel of the rockwool (it reminds me of insulation) so it is not as user friendly for me as the sponges are. I like the sponges because I don't have to worry about cutting etc., but so far the results in the rockwool far surpass the sponges for the brugs.

Here are some silk rose morning glories after less then 48 hours in rockwool. No nicking or presoaking.

Here is my Double White Datura after 48 hours. No nicking, no pre-soak...

aknapp, I've got my cellulose sponges, did you rinse yours in bleach water same as the foam sponges?

I rinsed my sponges in a 10% bleach/water solution...

This message was edited Feb 2, 2004 2:58 PM

Here's a picture of a Pride of Barbados seedling. I planted the sponge in a 2" peat pot with a little soil a few days ago. Its doing great!

skyeblu Yes I did them the same way that I did the foamy ones.

Gretchen those look great!!!

I am really upset with myself. I don't think my daturas are going to do anything at all, I put them to far down and I am kicking myself for missing the part about them needing light. I am lucky I have a few more seeds so I will leave these alone and see if any of them do anything, but I will do some more the right way and see if I have the same results everyone else does.
The morning glories had to be planted last night and I was bad and did not take any pictures before I did it. The end result was that the rockwool had 5 very nice seedlings with about 1 1/2 inch roots when I moved them last night. The foamy sponges had 3 very nice seedlings with about the same amount of root on them as the rockwool. The cellulose had 2 nice sized ones, but the roots had all remained inside, so that I could not see them.
I will have to restart the datura experiment and find something else to try instead of the morning glories.
Results so far
5 out of 6 for the rockwool
3 out of 6 for the foamy sponges
2 out of 5 so far for the cellulose sponges.
I thought the way they looked the first couple days that the cellulose was going to do far better than the foam, I am surprised that it came out the way it did.
I have also had a small problem with getting things too warm the last couple days, I made some changes in the lights and put some white sheets of posterboard around the lights to help keep the light on the plants, and a couple of times when I wasn't paying as much attention as I should have been it has been 80 under the lights.
Pretty amazing for a room that has no heat!!!!
I wish I could keep the rest of the room somewhere near that!!!
I hope you all are having as much fun with playing with all of the little baby plants as much as I am.
I love being able to see what is going on. Even the failures don't seem so bad when all I have lost is a few pieces of sponge.

Alice: Daturas take so long to sprout! Mine started germinating and then just stopped. It seems like just when I'm ready to give up and start over with them, they surprise me. Maybe if you pull them up a little in the sponge so they are exposed to the light. It wouldn't hurt to try. If it doesn't work, I apologize in advance for wasting your time :)

Many of the brugs I planted on 1/28 are beginning to show signs of life! About half that were in sponges were just getting ready to open, so I moved them over to the RW. It just seems a little safer to me.

I had 20 tomato seeds germinate over night in the sponge. They too have been transferred to RW. I just hate to have too much invested in the sponges until we see the long term effect...

A couple of my MG's have also sprouted :) I have a feeling that I'm going to have something to take pictures of tomorrow. Fingers are crossed............Gretchen

Thanks Gretchen I had decided to try that and then I was not sure if I was seeing any growth on them or not and I was afraid if I touched them, I would really ruin them. I have not given up on them and I intend to see if they can get by my abuse. I told them I would be really good to them if they would just forgive me my one little mistake.
I will have to hope they are more forgiving them my cats, they can hold a grudge for days when I take care of my sister-in-laws dog.
I have started a few small seeds on top of the cellulose and foam sponges and so far nothing from any of those, but some of those seeds were pretty old, so I can't really blame the method.
Its important in doing the testing to try and remember all of the little details like that so that you don't blame the method for something that isn't its fault.
When I did this experiment I nicked nothing, and yet when I did the first MG's in the sponges I nicked them and all but one germinated very rapidly. So we also have to take that into account.
It is really mind boggling.
I probably need to go get my mad scientist outfit on again, I am starting to think to much!!!!
Hoping for your pictures if not tomorrow by the next day I bet!!!!

here's my little mg coming to life...

The minute they sprout they take off so fast that its incredible. You will have a good time watching those for the next few days. They are fascinating.

Oh, I can barely keep my hands off them as it is!!! I guess I didn't mention here, that my very first ever brug seed sprouted tonight. This is just too much fun :-)

Gretch I just posted on the other forum after you did, we have got to quit meeting like this!!! People will talk!!!

RW has been around for over 30 years. I have a friend that used it 20 some years ago.
As if we don't have enough...MORE INFO ! ! !...... LOLOL
http://www.bhocenter.com/rockwool/rw.html

LECA is a stone (pebble), will not be applicable for starting seeds :-(
§

Datura seeds needs warm weather to germinate properly. i normally plant them in the month of May or June in my area. if u want to have a headstart, u need to use heating mat. othrwise u are depeating ur purpose and seed rot as a result. just my 2 cents worth.

Thanks Mavie
I had them on heat and had to take them off because after I moved lights around they were at 80 degrees and I started to get worried that I would fry them.

I think maybe its time to get a temperature control for my heating pads I had just been trying to get by without the expense.

Alice, do you plant sponge and all after they have germinated and are growing?

Darius
I have done it both ways, some things were not at all attached to the sponges and those I took off, the others I have just put in sponge and all.
When I get ready to put everything into bigger pots it will be interesting to see what is going on where the sponges are concerned.
My thinking is still that the roots will eventually just push the sponges or rockwool out of their way.
I won't have any conclusions for sure until the plants get bigger.

Thanks, Alice!

I have several sponge vs potting soil experiments started. I'll post photos this evening.

My concern with the sponges is that they will not tear away. The foamy kind might, but I'm afraid the others are so dense that they won't tear. I'm just thinking about how long one will last at the kitchen sink with brutal torture. Rock wool can be adjusted around with a fingernail, so I'm sure it will be just fine. I'm anxious to hear how your experiment works. Sponge would sure be cheaper than rockwool.

I think if you cut your slits all the way through the sponge you would be ok. It would give the root a path to travel down rather then just pushing itself as, like mine have been doing.
I have been having alot of seed rot in the foam. Is anyone else finding this in the foam or the sponges? Seems like the bottom stays much wetter then the top where the seed is too, but that might just be the foam, the cellulose sponge might not have that problem.

Nope -- no problems here. Maybe you need to use a larger piece of sponge, and wring out more water... I just transplanted another Pride of Barbados that sprouted in the sponge. On this one, I just ripped the sponge apart, below my insertion cut. The root was huge, but it was all contained right in the middle. I went ahead and put it in a 4" pot as they grow so fast... Can't believe how easy it is!!!

PS I sprouted 20 tomatoes in sponges in 36 hours. Have moved those to the rock wool for easier transplantion which will be very soon!

Hi all
After 2 days of being off I am feeling like I am way behind.
I have moved the things that sprouted and I am not pleased with myself about the daturas that I lost.
LOL I guess, I don't know why I am so dense sometimes. I found a large (what looked like cellulose sponge the other day when I was out and about) natural sponge is what it was labeled. It is definitely the worst thing I have tried. It dries out faster than anything else I have used.
Anybody having trouble with things staying to wet on the bottom, turn the sponges over for a couple hours (if the seed hasn't sprouted) rather than adding more water. I did that the other day and it seemed to work pretty well.
I am not liking putting large pieces of the sponge in the soil when I am transplanting to pots, I don't seem to be able to get it down in the dirt without getting the seedling farther down than I want it, anyone else got some pointers.
The things I did tonight I just cut off as much of the sponge as I could, and that seemed to be much easier.
I also do have 4 Raspberry swirl daturas that have germinated and have the first couple leaves on them, so I am not a total failure.
I am going to go catch up with all the other news and see how everyone else is doing.

Alice: after using the rockwool, I won't be using the sponges again. It was a cool experiment and I had fun with it, but I decided after reading a lot of opinions here, that I really don't want to plant it in my garden. Besides, overall I've had better luck with my RW and my soiless seed starter mixture. I've also discovered that the sponge doesn't seem to retain as much warmth as the other two... Oh well, like I said it was fun! :)

I sorta kinda maybe agree with you. Hows that for a definite answer.
I had seen your post about your seed starter vs rockwool experiment and found that really interesting.
I am still doing a lot of experimenting with both and started some things in seed starter also.
I like the sponges and rockwool both for larger seeds, but I am not pleased with the results of very small seeds, they are even harder to deal with on the sponges than if I had done them by deno or seed starter.
I agree its been interesting and I am having a good time seeing everyone else's experiments.
I hope I have not been responsible for anyone's failure or loosing seeds that were very important to them.
I have a few more datura seeds that I just received and I will be trying those now (if I can manage to do it the right way) and I wil also do some in seed starter I think after your experience.
I have had great success starting moonflower seeds, nasturium, scarlett runner beans, and butterfly pea vines in the sponges. I have not tried any of those in the rockwool but I assume they would do equally as well.
I wasted some rockwool before I read Brugie's post about cutting it into much smaller pieces, so it won't be long before I need some more. I contacted my local garden center to see if he would be willing to order it in for me, he is usually really good about that kind of stuff, and am hoping to save a few bucks by doing that.
I totally agree with you it has been a great deal of fun and I hope everyone else is also having a good time.
I really appreciate all of your posts and experiments, I have learned a lot!!!

Alice: You can re-use your rockwool if there is nothing growing in it! I really like the individual "pellets" for lack of a better name. They already have the little hole in the middle. If something doesn't germinate, I pop the dead seed out and put another one in. That's one of the things about it that I love -- there is no waste! The last of my sponges went into File 13 today. What still seemed viable I put in the seed starter. The rest was pitched. The scary thing to me now is that I have made room in my GH for 150 more 4" pots, once I'm there, I don't know what I'm going to do............. I have 114 brug seeds planted, 75+ daturas have sprouted with another 30 "cooking", 30 red oleanders, 20 tomatoes, 25 mixed hollyhocks and about 40 assorted other seeds. I can't start anymore at this point. I still have 1000's to sow, but I guess the majority will have to be direct sown in the Spring. I'm not even mentioning all the 4" pots that are already going well and many will have to be potted up to 1-gallon before too long! I have over an acre to plant and this at least is giving me a good start, hehehehe!!!

Gretchen, you amaze me. I don't have the room to start more in the house so have to wait for warmer weather and a path through the snow to the greenhouse. Thanks to all of you who have done these experiments. Your time doing them has saved me time. Can't wait to get into the "real" dirt in the garden.

Shirley: I saw your snow picture yesterday -- brrrrr is all I can say! If I would "get with the program" and build a pvc stand I'd be ahead of the game, I just haven't brought myself to do it. I have been thinking about buying some more of the shelving that I use in the GH (its real cheap) and then putting some lights on it. I may have to bite the bullet and do that... Anyway, glad our little experiments have been helpful :)

Hello All,

I just purchased A couple of Bio Dome Seed Starter Kits from Parks Seeds to give as gifts to my sisters. I'm trying to encourage them to join me in this Hobby.

These Kits have what they call Bio Sponges that fill the cells in a styrofoam block. I thought this would be ideal for beginners as it would be mess free and easy.

No where does it say what the bio sponges are made of ................ anyone know? It doesn't look like a sponge like material, it actually looks like starting mix. (I haven't opened the plastic they are sealed in because they are for birthday presents.)

If anyone has any experience with these that I can pass on to the girls it would be much appreciated.

BTW replacement sponges are available, and I just discovered that Parks sells on Ebay.

I haven't a clue. I followed aknapp's lead and started some tomato seeds in rock wool cubes last spring. Won't do THAT again even though they germinated well, LOL, but I think it works well for larger seeds.