New Information

I have located where you can purchase a product called coir, made of coco fiber. This will make the roots grow faster, now I saw this for myself, a large wholesale grower showed me the experiment, it works. This where to look, at all pet shops, or horse tack shop. The following are the names that it goes under. It comes in bricks that swell to 9 Cu. ft. I mix it half and half with the mix that I use which has very little organic matter. Cost 4.99 which I think is high priced. NAMES: Bed-A-Beast Litter
ZooMed Eco Earth Compressed Coconut RFiber Expandable Substrate
T-Rex Forest Bed Expandable Substrate I located this at PetCo in California
Hoya also like a pinch of lime in the soil.

But hey it's for the plants, we can go hungry. {;o] Norma

If you have a good piece of bark, wired on some moss onto the bark and put it in a pot at a 45 degree angle, they love it. Some love it so much and are ground growers, they like it as well, I just lay it flat for them. I've used the red wood sticks that made up a trellis,(it fell apart) and put on coco bark from the fronds of palm trees, put these on a angle and up the Hoya climbed. Be creative, it's fun. Gosh I hope I explained this properly. Norma

New Information: Stapeliad@onlist.com
south_african-bulbs@onelist.com
Peperomia@yahoogroups.com
Opuntia_amd_kin@yahoogroups.com

MESEMBS@onelist.com
Kalanchoe_and_kin@egroups.com
IGSROBIN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
Hardycacti_etc@opus.labs.agilent.com

Crown_of_Thorns@yahoogroups.com
Crassulaceae@yahoogroups.com
Fat-Plants@yahoogroups.com
Aloe@onelist.com
AGAVACEAE@yahoogroups.com

Norma, 'onelist' had changed to 'e-groups' about 2 or more years ago, neither of these two are valid anymore. Stapeliad, Mesembs, south_african_bulbs and Aloe are all @yahoogroups now. Kalanchoe_and_kin does not exist anymore, it had been changed to Crassulaceae.

Maddy thanks for the input. Phil Bunch sent me the list, I just want to share information. Norma

I finally found the coir, not in Pet shops here in Calif. but in a Hydroponic growing supply shop. I purchased 24 bricks of the stuff. It is supposed to make roots faster. I did witness the results of this at Western Wholesale. I couldn't believe that it would work.

so norma this product / you mix it with your regular succulent soil and use it to root new plants? i have seen it hydropondic mags

I mix it about 50-50 I use my touch, gritty mix for everything, but add what else is needed for the starting of new plants.
By the way-I don't know or care what the other forums are doing, I don't belong to them. So if they have changed I'm sorry, thanks for telling me Maddy. I can hardly keep up with name changes, let along where all the forum are at this time.

I mix it about 50-50 I use my, gritty mix for everything, but add what else is needed for the starting of new plants.
By the way-I don't know or care what the other forums are doing, I don't belong to them. So if they have changed I'm sorry, thanks for telling me Maddy. I can hardly keep up with name changes, let along where all the forum are at this time.

Norma,
I'm sometimes a bit slow and gotta ask you about the "coir".
Is it the same as the coco husk chips, just in a larger compressed block format?

Milan

I run about 200 groups on yahoogroups incl a few about gardening (hint, hint), and altough onelist became egroups and then yahoogroups or mebbe not in that order, once you post messages (after joining), it will still fly if you send it to egroups,com, which I do becaue less keystrokes to type in = less typos.

Love, lavanda who still cant type after lflunki8ng typing over 30 yrs ago!

so norma can you tell me about this gritty mix that you use for everything? I have seen on numerous sites diffrent formulas for soil for growing succulents. Would love one gritty mixture to use.

I am another person who is using coir (coconut fiber--not chips) for my cacti and other succulents--have been, since some time in January, and am gradually repotting almost all my plants in a mixture that contains it. It really is great--takes up water again readily even if bone-dry (unlike peat), yet does not remain soggy. New roots can grow into it easily. If anyone is interested--I generally mix it with pumice and sand, and sometimes 1/4" shredded fir bark, in these proportions: 2~3 coir, 2 pumice, 1 builder's sand (from Home Depot), and maybe 1 fir bark (but 2 coir, 3 pumice and 1 sand, and NO fir bark for things that easily get root rot). These proportions are only approximate, because I vary the amounts according what I think the plant's needs are. I usually also put in some Osmocote granules. They have the advantage of not over-fertilizing, yet saving me the trouble of mixing and applying a liquid fertilizer. It has all been working very well, and several plants I thought would never bloom have been growing and blooming since I switched them over.

As for coir sources, I bought bricks of Bed-a-Beast at PetSmart at first, but then I found a place that sells all sorts of sand, gravel, and various types of dirt to builders and landscape gardeners. It is all in large outside "bins" (concrete three-sided cubicles open to the sky) and you fill their large plastic bags yourself Each one holds about 2 cu. ft. and costs a bit over $5.00. I imagine such companies exist all over the country, if you inquire around. The place in San Diego that I buy from is called Hansen's Aggregates and is on Camino Santa Fe.

For pumice, I buy large, cheap bags of a product for horses called "Dry Stall". In the San Diego area, a place called "Dave's Feed Stop" has it. Unfortunately, judging from the experiences people post on GardenWeb, Dry Stall is not available in the eastern part of the States. If anyone near S.D. wants directions, please e-mail me. (By the way, if you keep cats and like products like Feline Pine for their litter boxes, Dave's also has a similar product much cheaper, called "Woody Pet". I think it is also used as bedding for chickens. My cats couldn't tell the difference.)
Happy gardening.

I don't use coir chips, I have used orchid mix small size for Hoya, but not for cactus and succulents. I use a 10% forest mulch in my cactus and succulent gritty mix. There will be 50 different formulas. All are good as long as they are fast draining. yYou still need to fertilize. At the moment I using 60% pumice 40% coarse builders sand 10% organic forest bark. If you want your soil for African plants then add a bucket of small rocks. All the plants in Africa are growing in lime stone, decomposed granite, or quartzite rocks. They all seem to manage to live even if they have a low rainfall that year. The soil is all rocks, shale, sand. Not much of anything else except what the animals deposit and the rain washes in or down. I do mix my soil half cactus and succulent mix to 1/2 coir or more until they get rooted. Wait until you see the roots. Norma

One word of caution on coir. Coir is made from ground coconut husks and it comes in different grades. Cheap, low grade coir may contain high amounts of sea salt and must be rinsed well before use with plants. Horticultural grade coconut husk chips are prewashed and cleaned but they are also rather expensive.

Yes use the Hort. grade. Again my Hoya rooted down in four days using this mix, but we are having temps, in the 90F dropping to 60 F at night, all the Hoya have 12-14 " of new growth in a month.

New product that I haven't seen before that might be useful, DEXOL Systemic Rose Care Insecticide/Plant food for $8.99 I found this at Armstrongs Nurseries. 8-12-4 seems a pretty good balance for all plants, will not push the leaf growth too much, but provides fertilizer for flowers and roots as well. If I left out information email me privately. Bayer puts out a similar product if you can find it.

I have been told that spring water works wonders on plants.'
I would try it for Hoya, and African Violets.

Norma

I just put down a flat (36) of Hoya 'Fresno Beauty' about 4-5 days ago, in that new mix I'm using 50% coir added to my cactus mix, darn if they are already rooted, I just looked before I wrote this note. I can't believe it I was the one that almost gave up in Feb. nothing was rooting down, even though I had a heat green house and kept it at 70 degrees.

I think this group would appreciate any propagation tricks.
Western Wholesale was using coir for succulents, but they put them in reg mix after they root. They must ship, the plant must be kept damp until the roots really fill up their first home, then they must be shipped quickly and they must hold up for the trip. Peat dries out too fast, and is difficult to rewet. So when they go to the stores, and they arn't watered properly, they just dry out and die. I am told that coir can be reused if not mixed with anything else, this I haven't tried. Norma

Soil formulas:

This is a mix that was recommended for Hoya,

It is a very fast draining mix.
1. 2. parts Commercial Cymbidium Orchid Mix
1. part peat (mixture of fine and coarse)
1. part coarse sand
Fertilizer: osmocote granules or sililar

2. Commercial Cymbidium Orchid Mix
Fertilizer: as above

3. 4 parts leafmold (e.g. from under fig trees)
oak leaf, forest mulch
2 parts coarse sand
1 part wood charcoal
2 parts old cow manure
2 parts peanut shels

I came across these in a book written by David Liddle of Australia. Just remember if you use peat, and it dries out
it will be hard to rewet it. The peat will pull away from the sides, and that is where the water goes, never getting to the root ball, If you use peat, be sure to change the mix yearly. This is the reason why many plant purchased from a nursery die, this is a convient soil for shipping but that is all. Its light, hold water long enough to be shipped and the plants paid for, this is the reason you see so many dead plants at Franks, Home Depot, Target and the likes of these stores. Make sure all plants in your collection is potted up in the same mix, so the watering conditions will be the same. Hoya in one mix, perhaps Crassula in another as well as all the other succulents, Sans, perhaps in the same mix as Hoya, etc. Lithops all in their special mix. etc. I also put most of my collection in 4" pots, they all dry out the same time. If I want the plant to have less water, I use three inch pots, San. in 6"-88" shallow pots. Gasteria in 6" round, Haworthia 4" square I can fit more in the space. etc. Norma

Excitment is getting a new plant.

I just located the H. kerrii reversed variegated. I got seven of them for $16.00 ea. WOW Norma

I would never us anything in my soil, that contains salt. That is why I recommend coarse builders washed sand. HOme Depot carries this product in small bags.
Salt kills plants, dog, and cats I use it to kill snail, and weeds between the cracks of my driveway. It's good for rinsing the mouth to kill germs, bacteria etc. not for plants however. I use hort coir, which is used for non soil growing of vegetables.

Also do not used distilled water.
Don't let people handle your plants if they smoke. Make them wash off their hands. Tobacco carries a virus that kills plants. If you buy a product that contains tobacco, it has been processed properly.

I am now saving up bottle water from the tap. This is also good for fresh water fish after it has sat a few days. The Chlor. seems to leave it, and the inpurities seem to settle down to the bottom. I going to see if this will help my plants in about a week.

I also noticed that coir hold water much longer, so I believe it may be good for rooting however the plants should then be moved into your regular soil. I also have found out that I must open my hot house during the day, they need more air flow, or the new cuttings will rot.
I also noticed on Hoya it's important that the cut be taken in the proper location on the vine. No real old wood, nor really new vine growth either. I learning slowly by experimenting. slow release fertilizer works best as well, no burning of stems at the soil line. Our winter here has not started, we are going through autumn. The fruit tree leaves haven't started to drop yet. When they do then I will know. WE are going into a 20 year period of dryer weather.