Cacti and succulent ID help

I am really trying to ID these two plants that my grandmother has. She asked for my help and after a few hours of fruitless searching I am hoping you guys can help,
Thanks,
Will

For the cactus, look at Echinocereus. Have you ever seen it bloom? The cactus in the pot with it is an Opuntia called "Joseph's Coat".

Thank you for the help! I had thought that the one next to it looked very much like Josephs coat (monocartha var. variegata) but the confirmation is nice. as for the left hand one thank you I think that you are right although I will need to look a little deeper to figure out which Echinocereus it is. Alas I do not have a picture of it in bloom as she has only had the plant for a short time.
Thanks,
Will

What do you think of Echinocereus stramineus or maybe Echinocereus nicholii? They both look fairly similar and I may never know which one until it actually blooms.

Take a look at Pachycereus pringlei. Red on the top?

I'm not sure that's one you would find at Home Depot.

Yes, it definitely is.

I have come across P. pringlei at HDs in my area quite often actually, less so Echinocerei, especially those specific ones mentioned. The only Echinocereus I have come across at HD in recent years is E. pentalophus. Could be differences between HD in different areas of course...

Wow I looked it up and P. Pringlei fits it to a dot. Yes it is red on top. Cool well maybe if its around for another 75 years it will branch out. Lol
Thank you for the info! Any ideas on the succulent?
Will

You may need a bigger pot.

I would defer to more knowledgable people than myself on the ID, but P.p. (a BC native) Is often available as a small seedling and used by people in dishes like the one in the picture. It's quite cute as a baby. No need for a huge pot as the plant grows slowly and is adapted to living in cracks in the rocks in nature. I grow mine in day long sun with infrequent water and it displays a strong seasonal growth pattern (red top in winter).

Sorry, I can't help ID the other succulent.

the other is some Graptopetalum hybrid I suspect

How does one tell the young cardon (P pringlei) from a young saguaro (C gigantea)?

It literally grew 4 inches this past summer when it was living outside (effectively doubling its size. I don't know if this always works but the saguaro of height is significantly wider around the middle. And has fewer ribs. Again not sure if this is universal, but if it is indeed p.p. it may be the difference.

Palm Bob I think you are correct about the succulent, I have never managed to find one that quite fit although it certainly looks very much like some graptopetalum specimens that come up in a Google search.

Nopala, I think you need experience and the key is in how the spines look. Beyond that I couldn't give you more than an uneducated opinion. Both plants are sufficiently variable to make distinction a little tricky at times. If you know where the seed came from, that's a good clue. The two cacti do not overlap in habitat, so if it's an Arizona native then it's not a cardón.

George, I have seen that many/most young cardones (Pachycereus) do have a waist at ground level. Mine certainly does. 4 inches of growth strikes me as a lot, so you must be doing something right! :)


This message was edited Jan 15, 2015 3:03 PM

Of course I need experience, that's why I ask!

Me too, that's why I disqualify myself as any sort of expert. I've seen hundreds of cardones but maybe 10 saguaros. Like I said, look at the spines. A good cactus reference book will get into the specifics for each species.

The Cardon grows a lot faster than the Saguaro, I have a couple of each in my yard in the 1-3 foot range so not very big, but in the time that I have had them, both Cardons have doubled in height while over the same time one of the Saguaros that started off about the same height as one of the Cardons has maybe gained half that in height. The other Saguaro is a lot smaller and while growing has been slow as molasses.
In my experience it is not always easy to distinguish them when small, but generally the Saguaro is a lot spinier with generally somewhat thicker and longer spines (but that is not always the case). I would tend to agree with George's statement about the number of ribs, but have not actually ever specifically checked that.

A few pictures here, to share my experience. First a couple of cardones in cultivation (baby pictures). Third shot is a year later.

A few youngsters in habitat near Cataviña.

Great areas of cardón habitat have been denuded of young plants by people wanting a cactus tree in their garden. I guess these plants were remote enough to be undisturbed. Life is hard enough out there in the desert.

They grow on crumbly granite in this location, sometimes in cracks in the rock. Look carefully in the last photo and you'll see a cirio (F. columnaris) which has made the same lifestyle choice.

This message was edited Jan 15, 2015 7:45 PM

A few multiples. Last plant seems to have branched after injury early in life.

Your basic cardón habitat. Also visible in the first picture: torote blanco (Pachycormus), cirio (Fouquieria columnaris). Second picture shows what the flowers look like (early morning). Third shot a freaky crest north of there. Last shot a young threefer from a different population near San Felipe, with a human and canine for reference. Note the soil there is almost pure sand. (Careful where you drive without 4x4 traction!)

Great pictures Baja!!

Those are cool. Thanks for sharing!

Nice pictures, Baja. Here's a little more specific answer to my question from a Desert Botanical Gardens horticulturist--they have those good reference books, lots of experience, and are nice about answering questions.
" Young saguaros will have gray to dark areoles and grayish spines. Their new spines will have some pink to red at the bottom, but still become gray as they mature. Cardons have white areoles and white spines, and the areoles will appear to be united with white in between, especially at the apex of the plant. New spines will be very red to pink before they mature."

Scott McMahon
Cactaceae Collections Manager

Both saguaros and cardons, and their seeds, are sold in gift shops and nurseries, even though they don't occur together in nature.

Thank you for that info.

The new spines on a cardón can also be orange or yellow (see photos above).

Love the photos, Baja! Poor plants that get ripped out of home! It is not a good thing.

The worst is when people plant them like fence posts, every foot or so in a line.... pretty much guaranteeing they will strangle each other out over time. You see that around San Felipe. It's not rocket science, really. This is the biggest cactus in the world, after all.

Wonderful pictures Baja.