Same mom, different dad (seedling oddities)

A few half-siblings here to tease your brain... pic 1 shows open hybrid aloes from the same pod, one of which clearly had a different father (shorter stem, fatter leaves, more spines). All the others look pretty similar at this point. Pic 2 shows two aloes from a blue/purple mom. Presumably one of the fathers is blue and the other is green. All the seedlings from that batch look like one or the other. The Euphorbias in pic 3 are same dad, different moms, just now kicking into gear (and moving into more light). The one on the right is regular bupleurifolia but the one on the left is a hybrid I like a lot. Older examples of that hybrid in the last two pictures.

Oh I like your pictures and your discussion. So many plants and accompanying projects. You must have a lot of fun!

Nice aloes..... I acquired several "indoor" hybrids over the winter. Some are in various stages of recovery. Still considered a plant rescue around here! Would love a long discussion on propagating hybrids... Ha!
Beautiful and amazing feats as always, Baja.
Peace~
Kiley

Thank you. The really fun part comes when the aloes flower (both moms had pretty awesome flowers, which is why I grabbed the seed) and then I get a chance to guess who the father may have been. (Or if indeed there was a separate father, as I am suspecting with the little blue ones.)

Pictured here: open hybrids from a Gasteria and an Echeveria. I selected those 3 Gasterias (Gasteraloes?) from about 20 seedlings, most of which had spots, for the lines and texture. The Echeverias are going to be fun in a few months when they're old enough to go outside. The seed parent was a black plant with bright red flowers in summer.

Half brothers (same dad) with different flowers of the small, greenish kind.

I just noticed a new branch forming at the base of one of the big aloes in the first picture. Apparently dad branches because mom did not. The plot thickens...

Echeverias growing up, definitely from different fathers. They are all the same age. The leaves of the third one are the closest match to mom.

The unfolding show is extremely interesting, Baja.Thanks for sharing. How are the others progressing?

The biggest of the aloes is in a 3 gallon (10") pot. It's going to be at least a year before any of them flower. Very suspenseful up until that point as I don't even know how big they are going to get. I'm going to space them every 3 feet or so and then see what happens.

There was some drama in the place where I keep those baby aloes today. It's a greenhouse (just shade cloth on a frame is all). I set up a squirrel trap in there because they are eating all sorts of plants. Well, after about a week of watching and waiting I caught one. Unfortunately a dog got in there before I did and totally went to town trying to get the squirrel out of the cage. 4-5 larger plants were totally destroyed, and the trap is totally useless now. Worst part is the dog now knows where the action is and may very well return if/when I try again.

This message was edited Jun 22, 2014 10:54 AM

What mess with the dog. Is it your dog? Or a stray?
I had lots of plants mutilated, destroyed or stolen by some kind of rodent. Short of caging in your plants (highly impractical) I don't know of any good way to protect them. If you catch the culprit you know his brother or cousin is right behind him to fill in the spot in the system.
I have some varmint coming in the evening/night and getting the tomatoes I am trying to grow on the porch. I did get some aviary wire and made cages - but since they can go through such small openings it has been a challenge making it rodent proof!
Good luck.

Yes, exactly, there is no rodent proofing the greenhouse. Where's the rent-a-cat service when you need one? :)

The greenhouse is in a public park a few blocks from my house. I have caught squirrels in the trap and successfully relocated them to greener pastures. It usually works (for a while anyway) when there's no dog involved. I have no idea what dog broke in, but there was also a human intruder the same day. I suspect the owner of the dog came to retrieve it, as there were no plants stolen.

:- Sounds complicated.

Yeah, any plant in that space could go at any time. Anyone with a pair of scissors could take what they wanted. It's good training for me because it teaches me not to be too attached. The plants I'm not willing to part with so easily are located here on the patio behind a gate. ;)

Quick update on the aloe seedlings... here are the largest one (10" pot, 6" stem) and the spiny one (8" pot). Starting to have some character!

I so admire your gifts with ...... Botany? Genetics? Gardening sounds too simple for the amazing photos you post of the plants you have produced. Truly awe inspiring.
I am one of those people who's lives are enriched by generous nursery owners or established gardeners. We don't have a community garden, but there are plenty of folks around willing to give cuttings, seeds or whole specimens if asked.
The hybrid Aloes I have were given to me by a nurseryman in Odessa. Great guy. Has taught me a bunch like DG has. These guys were almost dead when I got them a while back. Hope they fill the pot up now!

Thank you for the kind words. The hummingbirds take care of the genetics, hehe. I have much to learn from (and am most grateful to) the people who have chosen to dedicate themselves to growing these beautiful plants.

Your aloes look great and I imagine they will be filling up the container nicely in the not too distant future.

Family portrait here... mother, 3 different seedlings, presumed father of seedling #3 (timing is right and plants were adjacent). Those hummingbirds do good work!

Baja,

Very interesting, for awhile I thought you were doing the the q-tip propagation.

We are in Oxnard California right now and saw assorted succulents all over the place the drought does not seem to bother them.

Thanks for the pictures!!

Belle

I only do the q-tip propagation (actually I use a little paintbrush) with the Euphorbias. The other plants are up to mother nature.

Here are some aloe seedlings from one mother and 2 or 3 different fathers. My favorite so far is the one at 10 o'clock, presumed father is x spinosissima (or maybe marlothii?).

Second shot shows the lengths I have to go to protect these plants from rodents. I made this little cage after I lost another pot full of aloe seedlings to a nocturnal visitor. They must be tasty.

You will have to catch one of your visitors to find out if its tasty or not. ^_^
Really, too bad about the loss. I certainly understand having been raided quite a few times over the years. I had to give up on the ariocarpus'.

I have had pretty good luck catching rodents but this particular visitor is totally uninterested in the peanuts I always use as bait. It continued to snack on the plants and ignore the peanuts over a two week period, after which I gave up on the trap. One possible solution would be to use the plants as bait, but I'm not quite willing to go there yet. The pot would not fit in the trap, so I would have to bare-root them first. Maybe lettuce?

This message was edited Sep 20, 2014 3:54 PM

Lettuce might be a good choice. Or other plant material with high water content. Might be why the peanuts were rejected - too dry?

Yes, Aloes are tasty. I feed Aloe vera to my tortoises once in a while. The water content has something to do with it I'm sure. Some types of Aloe are toxic to animals..... I guess they can figure that out for themselves....

The animals here have a pretty strong preference for certain aloes, and leave the other ones alone... presumably they know which ones are edible. Aloe vera is not one they like. Interestingly the mother of those aloe seedlings is not one they like, either. But little baby seedlings must be something like sprouts, totally irresistible.

They have now moved on to eat more mature plants elsewhere on the patio, but I will not be removing the box for some time. Things should get better in a month or two once it's rained.

Of the various succulents growing here, it seems the rodents like Echeverias the best, but they are picky about which ones. They will bite off a leaf from certain plants and just leave it on the ground after they decide they don't like it... pretty consistent in that regard, actually.

This message was edited Sep 29, 2014 1:04 PM

An update here for the curious. Plants starting to develop some character. Still no flowers. Sibling aloes now in gallon pots, sibling Echeverias very different sizes (big one now offsetting).

Aloes are looking nice. Really a treat you provide me by showing the zone down there. Many thanks as always.

Nice plants. I particularly like the gray green one in the first photo.

Are you helping your plants pollinate? (My daughter goes out with a paintbrush every morning to help her squash along) Or just putting two blooming plants together and letting nature take its course?

There is so much variability in seeds that if that happened in my garden, I would assume the seeds were doing their thing. I guess the seeds are doing their thing. I'm just trying to figure out how you know the parentage.

My seedlings usually come up in a pot beside the one that is their parent because the seeds get flung or fall into other pots.

They are beautiful little plants. I've always been a sucker for Euphoria.

Daisy

Helen, that gray green aloe is nearly translucent, so it lights up when backlit. Pretty cool. I'm keeping an eye on that one.

Daisy, the only plants I have purposefully pollinated are the Euphorbias. The rest I left up to the hummingbirds. In many/most cases, the presumed father seems to be the closest flowering plant of the same genus. Location is a big hint. I am guessing the paternity based on who was flowering at the same time and what they looked like. A better guess will be possible once the seedlings flower (which only the Euphorbias have done so far).

The variability in seedlings is exactly what makes them so fun. Sometimes you have to plant 12 seeds to see 1 plant that really stands out.

I have seen some volunteer succulent seedlings in the container garden and most of them are Dudleyas, whose seeds seem to be very effectively spread all over the place by the wind. Despite the variety of plants in that genus around here, they seem to prefer mating with their own kind. Here's a volunteer seedling that I grew on and just cored today.

Baja,

Thank you for the response. As I mentioned, I usually end up with everybody sprouting in someone else's pot. That might have been a mistake in the case of Kalanchoe daigremontiana which came as a tag-along in another plant I purchased. I failed to pull it up before it did its little puppy thing and now they are everywhere.

I guess I should be happy to have a new greenhouse weed instead of the usual Maiden Hair Ferns.

Daisy

That Kalanchoe seems to be pretty common as a tag-along. It's unbelievably good at making more of itself.

Here are some pictures of baby agaves, with a couple of interesting plants. This is Agave shawii (native species). 4 seedlings from one parent, 6 from a different one. Even at this size you can tell there's pretty good diversity in the offspring.

Third picture shows an anomaly from the first parent, a plant with curved leaves. If you look carefully they actually curve in a sort of S shape. Normally they are pretty straight. Maybe this feature will go away with age.

Fourth picture shows the keeper from the second parent. The color is off but the plant is pretty blue.

Last picture shows a plant that may be cresting. Cobwebs tell you it's also growing really slowly.

Same mother, different father. The bumpy plants are going to be very colorful in the sun (mother is bright red).

Baja: Love the red speckled one. What are the mothers and fathers on these Aloes? Such fun.
BTW, I'm loving the calendar!

The mother is Aloe cameronii.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/324206/

The father could be any of a few bumpy aloes which might have been blooming at the same time. I don't know the father of the other plants but have some ideas. The flower may be informative about that.

Four hybrid Gasterias from the same cross, and one of the parents (you can pretty well imagine the other).

I guess those Gasterias aren't picky who they mingle with!
Nice plants Baja.

The amazing thing is those Gasterias are all siblings (same mother, same father), just random reassortment of traits to give very different looking plants.

I'd say that there are a couple keepers in there. I love the light grey ones with the mottling.

I like the first one myself. Those 4 are the keepers out of about 15 seedlings. A few looked like the mother (not an improvement) and a few looked like the father (ditto). One started offsetting really early. I got rid of those. It turns out the ones with the most stripey mottling (which I picked early) are much slower growers and currently a couple of pot sizes behind. Hopefully they will eventually catch up.

The other thing I am trying to select for are plants that can take the sun. You may have noticed the black spots on a few plants. I think that's sunburn. This time of year the light can be pretty intense, even under 20% shade.

Here's a set of half siblings. Most of the seedlings look like their mother, which is the last plant. She's purple in the sun. The other plants are not at the moment, I suspect because they are under 20% shade.

This message was edited Dec 8, 2015 5:35 PM

And the flowers are similar in interesting ways. The father of the bumpy plants makes red flowers. The mother makes an all yellow spike, the bumpy seedlings make a tricolor spike.

This message was edited Dec 8, 2015 5:32 PM