So....WHO'S EXCITED FOR SPRING!?!?!?!

I have to tell you I've been amped up for Spring in a big way with all this sub zero weather of late (1 day so far but still too much!) The countdown has actually been on since the beginning of November for me. The first herald of spring in our yard is our Hamamelis Intermedia x Arnold's Promise. It's so beautiful in the spring and the flowers smell so delightful. I'll be looking forward to this 3rd week of February. I've been putting a very LARGE shopping list together over the winter. Mostly from Lazy S&S and Bluestone but a couple oddball places too. I'm going to plant a xeric garden in a very dry sunny area of our yard. The only gardening related things I've gotten to do are spray WiltPruf on a Cryptomeria Sekkan Sugi and desperately tend to over wintering Dahlias; this is my first attempt at that. Luckily, I've had a lot of help from fellow Dahlia lovers (Pirl and others). Anyway, I just thought it's about time someone started a CAN'T WAIT FOR SPRING thread :)

Why not share what you've been up to this winter and perhaps your favorite herald of spring?

I just completed my seed orders for new tomato varieties and a number of new vegetables and flowers as well as replacements. Next I will tackle possible perennial plants with Bluestone and other companies. But in general I think I will buy more plants locally. Counting the days like you. I hate the cold anymore even though the snow looks pretty. Shoveling is no longer pretty! But with the computer I can go all over and "window" shop for all kinds of possibilities. Still have to wait 2 months to start my seedlings! In the meantime I have drawn up plans to make a grow light from PVC piping. The porch where I have a whole grow light set-up is too cold until the end of April so I will need a temporary grow light in the bedroom. There are many wonderful sources on the web with great do it yourself designs and demonstrations.

Sweet, sounds like fun :) Is there still a Harley Davidson dealership up there near Saylorsburg? Maybe it was a little past you off 33 but I used to go there with my Pop all the time when I was a kid.

I am looking forward to spring in a big way too. I think what I hate most about this weather is having the long commute to work. This morning was a white knuckle ride with all the ice getting to the main road, the pouring rain, and the dark. Enough about that.

Winter is a great time for arm chair gardening and planning what to do come spring. I like the not so common plants that you can find on-line, but I think I'll also stick more with some of the local nurseries this year. I am planning to revamp the vegetable garden that has been neglected for two years and continue working on my "turtle" garden down by the creek.

Last year I planted more hellebores, so that is my first herald of spring that I'll be looking forward to. I love snowdrops too, but only have a small patch of them - one more thing on "the list" to get more of for fall planting. I've been seeing different varieties in the catalogs lately and want to try them out.

Gardadore, I remember you from one of the plant swaps and the not so common plants that you were sharing there. What new tomato varieties did you find for planting this year? I found a place that sells at least 50 different heirloom varieties which sound really intriguing.

Sequoia,
Yes Schoch's Harley Davidson of Snydersville still exists. I'm not sure if Rose Schoch is still running it. I seem to remember something about her retiring. But she certainly built up a fabulous reputation for herself. She ran one of the most successful Harley Davidson centers in the country and was constantly winning awards. She also was famous for her community service. She also loved gardening and planted wonderful things along the edge of the property. She was and is a great character and I had the opportunity to meet her a couple of times even though it had nothing to do with motorcycles. She allowed me to keep my car overnight on the property when it broke down one night on 33. I managed to crawl to her and she was so helpful!

Aspenhill - I do remember you from a swap at Holly and Ric's. I was not able to attend last year's but hope there will be another one closer to home or at least I will be available! I have an extensive collection of heirloom and open pollenated tomato seeds and have this terrible addiction that I have to try anything new which someone extolls! Do you grow tomatoes?

The best Tomato site is called Tatianas Tomato List which is the best tomato database you can find. This link will take you there:

t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Category:Tomato_Variety_List

You can find out info on just about any tomato available.

She also lists where you can buy a particular variety in 2014. When you go to a particular variety there will be a tab on top called Seed Availability. All the companies she lists are excellent, honest, and offer quality seeds. I have ordered from many of them! In addition she also offers her own seeds and has wonderful varieties. Here is the link to her seeds:
http://tatianastomatobase.com/seed-catalog/html/

Are you familiar with Tomatoville.com? I get lots of wonderful ideas from there. If you need any input on varieties I will be glad to help although one's favorites in tomatoes is very personal in terms of taste. I will be planting about 25 new varieties this summer. We really love the yellows and orange ones but I have also become a fan of the "black" varieties. For sauces I grow Oxhearts because they are meaty, have more flavor and are larger than the paste varieties.

I will also be testing some new Green when ripe varieties. I love Cherokee Green but understand others like Grub's Mystery Green (doesn't sound appetizing but everyone lauds it!), Green Giant, and Humph are supposed to be as good if not better so I will see.

Some other new varieties I am really looking forward to as well are:
Dester (Pink Beefsteak)
Brandywine from Croatia (right now Cowlick's Brandywine is my favorite Brandywine)
Casey's Pure Yellow
Dixie Golden Giant
Dwarf Mr. Snow
Hege German Pink
Honeydrop Cherry
Joe's Pink Oxhearrt (leaves are not supposed to be as wispy as most oxhearts)
Manyel (yellow orange - supposed to be blemish free)
Milka's Red Bulgarian
Monkey Ass (loved the name. Gets it from forming double oxhearts like a monkey's """!)
Purple Brandy (AKA Marizol Bratka)
Stump of the World Large red (pink) beefsteak
Virginia Sweets Bi color Beefsteak
Weisnichts Ukrainian pink (got from Fedco.com)
Zolotaya Rapsodiya Round heart from Russia

You have probably gotten more than you asked for but I have been immersed in this topic for the last two weeks trying to whittle down my wish list and place my orders!!

Weather was so much better today. Guess we'll all have to hunker down for the cold to come tonight! Stay warm and keep dreaming!

Jessica

I want it to be spring also. I was even checking the Hellebores this afternoon with hope. With spring comes the shows York, Harrisburg, Maryland @ Timoneum, and the mama of them all, Philadelphia.
I haven't ordered our tickets yet, but will soon.If you live near Amtrak or you pass a station on the way, they have an unbelievable deal $60 for a dual ticket. At many stations you can get free parking, about a $20+ value; train ride to the Market East Station, Pa. turnpike Harrisburg to Philly $9.25 + gas; free SEPTA to the Reading Station; 2 adult flower show tickets worth $54; and a 1 year dual membership to PHS, worth another $11. That's nearly $95 not counting you gas
Our Christmas present will be getting a workout soon. We got a Nikon DSLR and I want to go to the shows and play with it so I know what not to do this summer.

http://www.patripsbytrain.com/philadelphia-flower-show/



This message was edited Jan 7, 2014 12:09 AM

Jessica, Thank you so much for all the tomato information. I will be checking out the links today!

I've always focused on shade perennials, but I started getting interested in vegetable gardening (in a small way) in 2010. I planted herbs, peppers, and heirloom tomatoes - the ingredients for making sauce and salsa, and experimented with canning. I think my favorite tomatoes for the sauce were the purple/black varieties. It was great fun and I did it again in 2011, but then I let the weeds overtake the plot and never spent time on it in 2012 and 2013. I really want to pick it back up this year, expand some planting areas, and add blackberries and raspberries.

It is really, really, cold today - lowest temps in 20+ years. Three garden catalogs and a garden magazine arrived in the mail yesterday. Makes me anxious for spring to arrive!

Gardalore: sounds like a nice experience with them! Going up 33 was always nice drive. My parents have since moved to Phoenix and my Dad can no longer physically ride. I've moved to Lancaster too so no more drives up that way for me. It would be nice to get up there sometime though.

Aspen: sure is cold today, it was 0 at our house with wind chills this morning -18. I got 5 or 6 plant books Friday and breezed through them already. I have been finding that I'm less and less attracted to the plants from the really common mail orders, i.e. van bourgondian, brecks, spring hill, because they all carry the same thing and I don't have the best luck with bareroot plants. I usually do a quick breeze through and then it gets chucked in the the trash. I too am looking forward to our Hellebores blooming.

Sequoia - ditto from me on the mail orders you mentioned.

One of the ones that I enjoy is the David Austin Roses catalog. Although I do not yet have a rose garden, I love his roses and will use them when I finally create the rose garden that I've been dreaming about for years. My place is mostly shady, and the one open area where I plan to put the rose garden needs extensive weeding and soil amendment before planting anything. The open area is at the top end of the pond where the creek comes in, there is a small waterfall coming over a single large flat stone, and is open and flat enough for a large sized garden.

I also like Klehm's Song Sparrow and the John Scheepers/Van Engelen bulbs catalogs too.

Years ago, the catalogs were my main source for plant inspiration but now with the Internet, the sources are limitless and right at my finger tips LOL.

Wow, that sounds like a very nice location for anything! I'll have to check out those companies you mentioned.

I'm going to be replacing a bunch of young holly bushes with Aronia arbutifolia. I keep envisioning what it will be like in 5 years and smile :) The nursery I got our hedgerow from last year let me pick them up 3/2 and I planted all 30 of them the same weekend. I'm hoping to do the same this year. Last year it was Pyracantha we planted.

I am so horrible about remembering the real botanical names - I had to look those two up. I have seen and really like Aronia (aka chokeberry), but have never even heard of Pyracantha (aka firethorn) before. The description said it had thorns - specifically good for hedgerows I'm guessing? One of the greatest pleasures of gardening is seeing things grow to maturity - a combination of wonderment, satisfaction, pride, and in my case, relief that it didn't die along the way (an all too frequent situation).

I've attached a few pictures. The first is a close-up view of the area I was talking about for the rose garden which will be to the left of the little waterfall. The second is a long view - the area is at the far back of the photo. The third is my vegetable garden plot when I started it in 2010 - only real sunny spot for it was in the drainfield, so I made raised beds and put up fencing to keep those pesky deer out.

Didn't realize it until just now, but one photo is with cold winter, another is early spring, and another is mid summer. How relevant for this thread topic LOL.

This message was edited Jan 7, 2014 3:06 PM

Wow! That's quite a setup you've got there. Absolutely beautiful! I see where you're talking about. That will be really nice there if you can put some high impact plants to really highlight the area.

Pyracantha do have nice thorns but it doesn't deter the rabbits from grazing. The plants were 2C size when we got them but now some are as tall as I am so a little nibbling around the base won't hurt much. They were so beautiful when the berries were in full glory. It was also fun watching the robins gorge on them. They would hop from the ground up to grab a berry and then eat it on the ground. There would sometimes be 10+ at a time going to town on them.

"One of the greatest pleasures of gardening is seeing things grow to maturity - a combination of wonderment, satisfaction, pride, and in my case, relief that it didn't die along the way (an all too frequent situation)." - well said!

Since I've been on DG, I've been trying to learn as many botanical names as possible because of all the common names there can be for the same plants. It usually results in a lot of looking things up to understand what others are talking about as well.

I just love Pyracantha and keep trying to think of a spot to plant one. I really like to see them espaliers.

Teri, May of us know the Genus of plants because it's also the common name, having a taxonomy id or Latin name has it's uses in science and is universal. That said, often I find people who feel it's imperative to use them in conversation pretentious, and tiring. LOL The best garden teachers may name drop the Genus to help educate others and most of us wanna' be gardeners appreciate it, but there's a world out there and a heck of lot of the John Does know more about a red maple than a Acer rubrum. In printed material I like to see both, it makes it a learning experience, in conversation eh who cares.
Where are you going to put your Christmas presents? You mentioned a turtle garden where's that? I remember your place fairly well.

On my first major garden tour which took me to England (Kent and the Cotswalds) our guide, who was a horticultural professor at Wye University, insisted that we learn the Botanical names of all the plants we came into contact with on the trip! While this was rather overwhelming at first and I thought a little over the top at the time, I have come to appreciate the valuable lessons she taught us. While I try not to name drop, I have found that knowing the botanical name has enhanced my travels because I could find out so much more about a plant that intrigued me if I just had its botanical name. Its name in Swahili was not much help if I wanted to find it in the US! Also head gardeners in foreign countries usually know the names so that means I can look it up when I get home and we are on the same page when discussing a plant.

So now I make sure to write down all the names from the plant tags of plants that capture my interest in any botanical garden I visit. My biggest problem with these names (besides REMEMBERING) them is pronouncing the Latin correctly. I'm really good at massacring the name when I speak to professionals but can at least almost spell it if needed!!

Jessica, I see where knowing the Latin name would be very valuable while traveling, I have experienced this in my own limited travels. After I get home and learn the English common name though, the Latin, all too often seems to slip away. It seems my old brain has a mind of it's own.LOL

Well I have at least been able to put some of that Latin to use I had to take in High School. Learning the Botanical names is certainly more fun than trying to read Caesar's Gallic Wars (and I had to do that twice because I changed schools and the new one wouldn't accept my credit for the previous year - talk about boring!!!)
I'm afraid most of us (at least in my age group) at this point have brains minds of their own. Just glad my mind is still operating most of the time in some capacity!! My husband disagrees (that my mind is operating most of the time!!! LOL)

I am forever trying to remember and correctly pronounce the true botanical names - it IS much more meaningful in a gardener's world. I really have to laugh every time I'm around our DG friend David grennthumb99 because he always uses the botanical names - even the ones that I thought I knew, I find out that I had been pronouncing them wrong for years. I think he gets as much a chuckle out of my mis-pronounciations as I do.

Ric, I still haven't placed the Christmas presents in the Turtle Garden. I wanted to do it last weekend, but Mike worked again on Saturday and just wasn't in to helping me with it on Sunday. Maybe I'll catch a break and get it done this weekend. I always want to move full speed ahead on my ideas and projects, but when it is something I can't do by myself I have to put the brakes on and wait for his help. Patience is a hard trait to learn LOL. Anyway, the turtle garden is along the driveway - just at the point where it crosses over the creek. I don't know if you've ever been on the ATP site, but I sometimes use their blog feature. Turtle Garden blog post is second post down from the top:
http://allthingsplants.com/blogs/view/aspenhill/

Last summer, I got at least half of the plants listed on the blog post planted. Because of the volume and cost factor, I ordered plugs from North Creek Nursery - anywhere from 32 to 72 plugs per flat. As sequoia mentioned with her hedgerow shrubs, they may be really small to start out with but I am looking forward to what it will look like in 5 years.

This message was edited Jan 8, 2014 7:20 AM

I didn't think that North Creek sold to non commercial types. I poked around their website earlier this winter in search for, I think, Geranium Bevan's Variety and they sold flats but I thought I saw something about commercial growers only.

My husband has a small business - primarily sewer and water line repair, but it often requires re-landscaping the repaired areas. I ordered under the company account, but I don't believe North Creek limits it. I think the only stipulation is that customers have to have a minimum first time order of $350.00, but no minimums on future orders. Check it out - it is definitely worth it if you need large quantities and I was very happy with the quality of the plants and the delivery.

Oh yeah, that's right. I knew there was some reason I didn't get from there. There's no way I'd be able to meet that minimum. I don't have enough land to give away to just a few plants. If someone went in with me I could do it though.

As I recall, the shipping charge was substantial. I thought about placing an order and then driving up to pick up it up (they are somewhere in Pennsylvania). This might be a good basis for a local MAG group order!

I started planting a new area last summer, but despite cautions from Critter I didn't water it much -- intended it to be an exercise in xeriscaping -- but the plants didn't flourish. That may be my new project for this year -- to plant that area and provide at least enough watering to get the plants established. So I'll look at North Creek to see what they offer in bulk for dry shade....

That might not be a bad idea. I just looked at where the place is and it's only about 45 minutes from me. I'd be down for a flat of the Bevan's variety geranium.

We should plan on it. If we placed the order under my account, we wouldn't have to worry about hitting the first time minimum purchase of $350.00. I think I'd get pretty flustered with organizing it. I don't know how critter manages to do it so efficiently, but I'd definitely be up for ordering the final outcome, meeting up at the nursery with anyone who wants to do a pickup up there, and bringing back plants for anyone fairly close to me for further delivery arrangements. I had already planned on a few more flats for the Turtle Garden - geranium maculatum, ostrich or cinnamon fern, and a tradescantia that was featured in one of their emails.

Sweet, sounds good to me! I'd be happy to organize if no one else wants to.

Aspenhill, are you still planning to host our Spring plant swap? A lot of plants from North Creek could be distributed then and there.

I'm interested in generating interest in planting butterfly host and nectar plants in all of our gardens and have been collecting milkweed seeds, etc. I believe North Creek has plugs and flats available for this effort.

This message was edited Jan 8, 2014 8:17 PM

Hi Judy, yes I am up for hosting the spring swap but hadn't made a final decision pending any one else who would want to do it speaking up, especially if the group hasn't had a chance to visit that garden before. I thought we could finalize a decision at the Feb seed swap. If I hosted it, it would have to be May 10 or May 24.

For a North Creek group buy, one of the considerations is the plug availability dates. Each flat has an availability date - some are available "now", and others are not available until a "future" date. Anything we order in the group buy would have to be available by a specific cut-off date for pick-up and distribution at the spring swap.

Also, as orders filter in, the available flat qty decreases so that needs to be watched as well - I think they update their web site weekly. I think the best scenario for organizing a group buy is to place a near term initial order for things we already know we want, and then add to it as the group continues to make decisions in the weeks leading up to a pick-up date. North Creek was very flexible with that and it would keep our things reserved as the "non-spoken" for flat qty diminishes.

Whatever I order will probably be a whole flat, but I know that would not likely be the case with anyone else. Getting multiple takers for a specific plant to add up to the flat plug qty would need to be addressed and figuring out $ totals would have to be addressed too.

Like I said before, I would be flustered taking the challenging organization of this on and would probably really screw it up. At this point, I am just volunteering for placing the order and pick-up/delivery.

Hmm...it does sound like a lot. I'll still organize if Aspen coaches me along the way ;)

Why not just do the plant swap at the nursery? Or is that an ignorant question?

From my perspective it would be easiest to do it wherever the swap is held, so as to avoid additional travel time and gas and so we can spend some time relaxing.

If one of us could pick up the flats (which will take a lot of space in a car, so that is another consideration) to bring to a central meeting location, that would be great. It is a long drive for many of us to the nursery. Plus, they are only open limited hours. It could require (at least) several hours for us to divide up the plants, which is another reason we'd want to do it at a location where we can feel free to spread out.

Critter put a ton of hours into organizing the bulb swap - don't underestimate how much work was involved..

I think we probably should avoid getting down to the level of "three plugs of this and five plugs of that level", because that is going to make the division process really painful. So maybe try to do it in multiples of 5 or 10 or whatever (maybe based on the number of rows in a flat -- so participants would buy a full row?).

Plus, not all the plugs may be equally robust, so the people who order just a one or two may feel they didn't get the best deal if their plants aren't as great as some of the others in the flat -- another reason to go for some minimum number. I did a "mini" peony co-op last spring, and it turned out there was a huge variation in the quality of the roots I got. I gave my fellow participants the best plants -- but as a result the ones I was left with weren't so great. Just something to think about.

One way to do it would be for those of use who are willing, to commit to buy a full tray and then offer plugs at whatever the pro rata price is -- basically, have a bunch of mini-co-ops. So, for example, I might offer to buy a full tray of, say, some ornamental grass that I want, and then offer up to a half tray of it for others to buy. That way, we don't have huge complex master spreadsheet and plugs flying this way and that.

It would certainly be the easiest if we each bought full trays. I'd be happy to buy full trays. I'm just not sure I want $350 worth, or that I want to drive to Pennsylvania (or pay for shipping). So if it were easy for someone to do the pickup, that would be wonderful. But of course I want to have my cake and eat it too.

Happy, would you like to organize since you have experience? I'd like to help as much as I can and I do only live about 45 minutes away from the nursery.

Sequoia, do you want to start a new thread for the North Creek group buy? We can discuss the details and the best way to go about it there. I think we have a good start with the comments I made from my experience on things to consider about ordering from North Creek and Happy's comments on an approach. For background reference on how we've done this kind of thread in the past, here is a link to the thread that Jill started us out with when she did the Group Fall Bulb buy:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1314389/

Sequoia, we've cross posted! Happy, any thoughts?

I don't think I can commit to organizing a co-op -- but I'll think about it. I know how much work it is to organize a big co-op, and I have an awful lot on my plate. That is why I was thinking we might consider limiting the main co-op to full flats, and then have purchasers of full flats organize smaller sub-co-ops (for example, anyone who wants a particular plant could see if they can get enough people together to buy a flat, so that the host would only have to deal with ordering a full number of flats).

So that is what I'd lean towards -- establish a single delivery date (maybe 2 weeks before the spring swap), ask participants to commit to full flats that are available by that day and pay for the full flats, and then have those participants set up mini-co-ops to subdivide their flats.

But this may not give enough flexibility for those who are hankering for just one or two plants.

I looked at the North Creek website last year and found it daunting -- the availability dates that Aspenhill mentions were a pain to navigate, plus as I recall there were different size flats to contend with. And shipping was a significant cost. Ultimately, I wasn't willing to commit the time to figure it out for myself. So I decided it was easier to just order what I wanted from Santa Rosa when it was on sale -- with their fabulous sales and inexpensive shipping, it wasn't too bad a deal. That might be where I end up this year as well.

I'm not sure I need enough this year to get to the $350 minimum on my own. Last year I was going to do it for my "awful front hill" project, but that is now mostly done.

The more I think about it, the more I think I could take this one on if we keep it fairly simple. I'm meeting Jill for dinner tonight, and I'll get some more tips from her, then start a thread on it either tonight or sometime tomorrow.

Ok, sounds good. I'll be more than happy to help as much as I can, including doing some of the pick up. Where did you all do the swap last year?

I'll be happy to help as well, but I just don't think I can take the primary role.

Happy, since Aspenhill has already met the first order minimum last year the re is no miinimum order to meetexcept for 'shipping' which does have a min. but if we can pick up at nursery that will also not be a problem.

The only minimum for ordering is the one full flat minimum per variety. So, I agree that any order be for a full flat and then each buyer mini co-op their own surplus, or two people could split a flat with one being the primary.

Since N Creek will reserve ordered plants it makes the 'availability' dates less of a factor. Most of the plants I can anticipate being on MAF wish lists are available by May 12 if not before. Another group is available in August if there is interest in a second round. My suggestion would be to go with the Landscape Plug size where available with 50 plants per tray as they are larger and easier to maintain pre delivery/pick up than the 72 count trays.

I also suggest we go with some categories like the ones NCreek already has:
FERNS 32 count trays
Grasses http://www.northcreeknurseries.com/index.cfm
Vines http://www.northcreeknurseries.com/index.cfm
Woodies http://www.northcreeknurseries.com/index.cfm
And that we break down Perennials into categories like
Butterfly Host and Nectar http://www.northcreeknurseries.com/index.cfm
Dry Shade http://www.northcreeknurseries.com/index.cfm
etc

I'm sure others will have other great suggestions. Willing to help as needed. LMK

I agree with the full flat minimum and let everyone break down themselves as needed.

Yes, I'm excited at the thought of spring and putting ideas into action.

For dahlia lovers this weekend will bring mild temperatures so it may be a good time to check the tubers and give them a cooler spot if they have begun to sprout.

Bill has his ad up for DG people, along with his 10% discount on his caladiums!
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1345798/

The caladiums are so good in pots and excellent at hiding the bare bottom stems of clematises! There are so many choices for both sun and shade. Don't forget hanging baskets with caladiums as well.

Coleup: How did you find the North Creek indexes? Your links just take me to their home page -- but I can't find how you searched by type of plant.