I just ordered 50 pds of 36% reg. koi food from Arthur Aquatics. Has anyone used their food?
It was much more resonably priced than what we have been using Blue Ridge Fish Farms.
The big fish are now in the larger pond and smaller ones in old smaller pond. This morning it looked like they were spawning or makeing fish love. Guess they like their new home. Sold and gave away all unwanted fish to make room. What a job moving everyone around. Glad thats over with. If I hadn't bought a fish sock it would have been very difficult to move large ones.
I am going to try out my Pondovac 4 vacuum. Son tried it some Fri. and he said for the price he thought it was inferior but it did vacuum up all the sand very well. Of course the leaves did clog it up but you can't have everything. It did take string algae off rock waterfall which I thought was good. It's better than draining and pressure washing the whole thing. Fish didn't seem bothered by it a bit. What I kept are all too big to get sucked up in it. Discharge will be wonderful for flower beds. That will be my water change and then I can put meds. back in for injured big one we kept in smaller pond. She is really torn up but still living and swiming around pond. She is 26" and 24 pds. Hard to handle. Other ones we didn't get to measure. Son gave her CPR for almost 2 hrs. and thats how I had the chance to measure and weigh her. I put her in a sling and hung it on my antique fish scale. He got 5 straight sided and I bought 5 butterfly.
One has a zipper so I named her Zip.
Will try to get some pics when I have the time.
Happy ponding. Bonnie
Koi Food Resource
Bonnie,
I'd love to see the new additions! Post pics when you get a chance!
I often get food from Arthur Aquatics. It's very reasonably priced (I get the 50 lb bags) Haven't had an issue with it yet, and I've ordered from them for approx 3 years? He also sells medicated food from time to time.
Is the fish with the wounds eating? If so, you're ahead of the game. She may lose a little weight if he was feeding them cat food, which normally has a higher fat content. Being on healthier food will help them overall. Watch for redness around her open wounds. If they are healing properly, you'll see white skin starting to cover the wound. Scales won't happen for a long time. Salt can help keep the slime coat up and the bad baceria down while she heals, but if you are adding meds to the water check to see which meds can combine with salt before adding it. If she's swimming and fairly active, another good sign. If she stalls in a corner, or you see red streaks in her fins, you have an issue.
I think I have a little bit of antibiotic (topical) left if you need some.
I had been ordering food from them for years.
No problem that I can see.
Belle
Actually her wounds look gray. One flap of skin along side fell off. No she isn't eating but she is swiming around very well. In fish fashion upright. Thought about adding salt but will wait. I changed some water today while vacuuming and then put in Melifix. No hangin in corners. Just keeps swiming slowly around the whole pond. If others get in her way she bops them with her head. I think the reason she isn't eating yet is she has wounds around her mouth from smacking herself head on into rocks when we first put her in there. Thank Heavens she has settled down every since we took her out of isolation tank with meds in it. I have to say I have never seen one hurt this bad. Both sides of her tail are wounded. If she pulls through this it will be a miracle but Jeff thinks she will. We didn't want to move her again so she is with smaller fish in old pond. When she heals she can go with her big buddies. They aren't eating much either. I think diet he had them on must have been all junk. They eat some but it takes them forever.
Mary & Bell thanks for your info. on food. I still have 30 pds. of Blue Ridge koi farms stuff but don't want to run out.
Happy ponding.
Only have a few pics taken today. Very hard cause tree causes a lot of shadows and sun has to be just right. I like the one where the group looks like it is getting ready to ride a wave which is just a set of bubbles caused by meds. in water for Big Momma.
Tomorrow I am going to borrow a large cow watering trough to put her in alone as she looks terrible and I want to keep medicating her. Haven't given up on her yet.
Tail is much worse than it looks in this picture. Jeff came today and took some better shots to send to fish biologist. Wish us luck!!
Ohhh Bonnie!! It's like caring a sick child. hope he/she survives it. I wonder if they have any feeling like humans.
Wishing you luck and if prayer helps I can do that too. Seriously.
Belle
Bonnie - sorry you are having problems - It seems we all do from time to time. What do you think that is on your koi's tail area? It almost looks from the picture that she scraped herself - am I seeing it correctly?
Bonnie,
Yipes....
The gash close to the base can possibly heal, as long as she stays in clean water. In the past, for wounds like that, I've sprinkled antibiotics on it, then covered it with a slight dusting of denture powder, which seals in in for a while. However, the frayed tail is a totally different issue. That's actually not damage from the move, but damage from poor water quality (probably combined with cat food) Dead tail tissue like that needs to be watched carefully, so it doesn't continue to creep up to the rest of the tail. Once it hits the muscle at the base, it's close to impossible to keep it alive. There are medications specifically for fin rot, but I know she's large and hard to handle. Try to not move her too often, the stress alone can kill her. Most fish vets tell you to add a fish in with an ill one, for some reason they stay more relaxed and heal better to have buddies. (even if they're cheap goldfish)
Let me know what I can do to help.
Couldn't use water trough as it was galvanized and Charlie said too many chemicals involved in galv. process. Called biologist at Aquatic Eco. All she said was line it.
Went to our new Tractor Supply store and bought a 150 gal. Rubbermaid tank and put her and meds in it. Had 2 window screen covering top holding them down with bricks and she broke screens and almost got out. My dog started barking and alerted me. Now we have plexiglass and plywood on top with cement blocks on them. If she can knock that stuff off I give up.
Her tail really is a mess on both sides. Called a vet that said he worked on fish and he was no help at all. Melafix & Pimafix and low dose salt will have to do the trick.
Carolyn we may be fish wacky but I and my son are praying she makes it. I couldn't afford the amt. of meds in the pond. Cheaper on meds to have her in smaller area plus no rocks to get hurt on. I know one thing there were too many people in the owners pond going after fish and Jeff fell over a cement block in the center bottom and he thinks thats what she got hurt on cause he took her out in a fish sock very gently. I'm so glad I immediately bought one when we got home.
Mary what kind of antibiotics did you sprinkle on it? We have plenty of denture powder cause Charlie has false teeth he uses it on. On one site I found a liquid bandage made for fish but by the time I got it here would probably be too late. The Melefix says its for fin rot, open sores and many other things so I'm hoping it works.
I poured iodine on one fish once and it cured it. Biggest problem is holding onto her which I can't do alone and treat her as she is really strong. Jeff is off work tomorrow and I am going to tell him to get over here and give me a hand. With pond vac hose 50% water out and then put new in with a gentle spray and meds. I have a pump but I think that would be more upset for her than just putting hose end on top of water and suck it out. That way I don't have to remove top coverings and she shouldn't be able to jump out. Also will add a goldfish for company.
Have to do this early as Charlie has stress test in Mr. Dora at 1:30.
Appreciate your offer of help Mary but really don't know what else you could do. Will keep up this regimen and see how she does.
I was flossing my teeth tonight and had a loose tooth so was going easy I thought and out it flew. Dentist next week. Between humans and fish this has been an expensive month. Oh well thats life. Big Momma will either pull thru or not. At least I can try. Sometimes I feel like Doc. Doolittle. I know you have all been thru it too so you understand. Jeff just called from work. Said fish farm often treats their tanks with malithion. I'm not trying that. No experience with it. Come spring I may take all fish out and clean ponds with PP. Thats supposed to kill any harmful organisms.
Yes Carolyn, they are very deep scrapes. Pic. doesn't show all the loose skin that is hanging. Hopefully now that I have exact measurements for water and meds we will see some progress. I stay optimistic. You are getting ready to close down your ponds and we only just got down to in the 70's today. Felt so good.
Take care all.
Oh Bonnie - sounds like you have your hands full. Melafix and Pimafix have always worked well for me.
Is she infected? I know the triple anitbiotic foods have worked well in the past with infections.
Hi Carolyn,
Don't know if infection has moved inside. Just very bad skin scrapes.
She is not eating anything.
Merry Mary has given me wonderful suggestions but getting the products in time could be tricky. I need to keep this stuff on hand at all times. Learn something new every day. Hope for the best and live with the worst.
Thanks for caring.
While doing water change today I noticed the bad side of the tail is really looking bad. Damaged part is about 3 inches from tail fin up onto back. I'm not going to post a pic as it is really gross.
I held her tail up just for a minute and poured iodine on her. Put clean water in and all meds including low dose of salt.
Really looks hopeless. Tuesday will be 7 days of quaranteen and meds with her by herself. I did put meds in pond before but doubt it was enough to do any good. Now doses are exact to water amt.
Oberon, looked up salt dosing-3 lbs. salt to 100 gals. of water. Add 1 pd. per day for 3 days. This is from Cecil Ferguson, The Pond Doc.
I've been on some good sites.
AquaMeds.com - Dr. Eric Johnson at koivet.com- PondCrisis.com and I'm sure there are more.
Oberon, forgot to mention-when you add salt dilute it in water first cause salt crystals will burn their skin if put in all at once in a clump. I also dump it in around edge of ponds and not all in one place.
Bonnie
have you tried an antibacterial food for your fish? Some medikoi may go along way towards helping her. I would feed longer than the 14 days.
She is not eating anything. Man that had the fish used to feed them cat food. I was thinking of trying a few pieces of that.
Got the iodine poured on her tail yesterday.
Unless you have all the meds on hand it takes too long to order everything in.
I still have plenty of melafix & pimafix and salt so thats what I've been doing. I'll see if there is any change as tomorrow will be 7 days which treatment was recommended for.
This fish is in the worse shape I have ever seen one in.
Bonnie
Bonnie
perhaps it is time to contact your vet to see if they can give you an antibiotic that can be injected. I know my vet said if I ever needed some for my fish, he would be happy to provide it. Thankfully, I haven't needed it yet.
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?111964-Koi-friendly-vets
Here's a list of vets, by state, that treat koi. I'm sure there are more, but it's a start. Bonnie, I see one in Winter Park. It may be worth a call to get some injectible Baytril.
Carolyn, local vet who says???? he works on fish doesn't have it and did not offer to order some in for me.
Winter Park Vet Hosp. will not dose it out and said I'd have to bring her in. Suggested I find a vet that would order it for me. I'm not moving that fish all that way. She has been thru enough.
I will go on trying with melafix, pimafix & salt. I noticed this morning she is forming a white skin around the edges of her wounds.
Don't know if thats a good sign or bad but she certainly is peppy. Put 3 cherrios in with her this morning. If she doesn't eat them I'm sure her little goldfish buddy will.
Guess I should give up but I can't bring myself to it yet.
Thanks for suggestions.
One question. Have either of you tried rubbing on a human antiseptic like neosporin or ichthemmol ointment?
PS the pic. above of her tail is the good side. Couldn't get a pic of really bad side.
Bonnie, yes, I have used neosporin on fish(they have a fish one made by debride) but it usually doesn't stay on too long. That's when I saw someone using the denture powder in a microfine misting to seal it on for an hour or so. Do not use peroxide on anything!
If you see skin forming around the edge, then you're beginning to make progress. Hopefully, it will skin over before any infection can set it. Wounds in a clean water enviroment can eventually heal, I'm more concerned about her tail spines being broken/rotted/exposed. That can lead to internal blood poisoning. Wonder if you can turkey baster her some liquid food with antibiotics in it?
Bonnie - apparently I lucked out. My vet treats both large animals and small. He is a country vet and I really like him. I got lucky - looking at MM's listing of vets that offer to treat fish - the closest one to me is about 4 hours away.
Good luck with your fish.
Good point Carolyn! Bonnie, maybe you can find a cow or horse vet in Clermont that understands you can't always take an animal in for an appt! Might be worth it to look locally, even if they need to do a drive by to see that you really are a koi owner. Also check with the Orlando Koi Club people...they may have someone that is fish friendly.
The vets in Clermont only work on horses. We pay a fortune for a vet for our cows because they are all way out of town. Last time I called one that would come it was $125. just trip charge that was before they worked on one.
I just ordered Tricide-Neo from Aquatic Eco. cause they are the closest and got a price match discount which surprised me. Had to order largest amt. suitable for 5 gals. as I can't dip her in 1 gal. Will dip every day for a week and still use Melafix & Pimafix in tank water. Had a long chat with fish biolg. finally. This stuff has to be used in distilled water. Have to go and clean thoroughly one of my little tubbies that she can fit into. Wish I had a long narrow trough would save some for later use. Oh well this is my last. Our $50. fish is now worth much more and may still die so thats it for me. Will try to get a pic for you 2 tomorrow when I take her out of stock tank. Her mouth is all messed up also.
Boy I dread it.
Bonnie - I am so sorry you are going through all of this. I have been through different illnesses and there was about of fin rot years ago, but I was able to catch that very early. Seems to me they were eating the triple antibiotic food.
Let us know how it goes for you.
TricideNeo is one of the drugs that you can spray on the wounds from a spray bottle (I mentioned it above, but not by name) If you can anesthetize her to a wet towel, you can spray it on each wound, covered by the denture powder/bio-bandage/deBride ointment. It just keeps in on the wound a bit longer. TriCN can get costly, get the maximim out of each bit!
Mary are you suggesting I save some of the water the Tricide is in and continue to spray her wounds after the week of dipping?
110 grams makes 5 gals. of water for treatment. I washed out and disinfected 3 different containers and then Charlie went out back and brought up a 30 gal. acquarium I forgot I had. I scrubbed and rinsed that very well however 5 gals doens't go very high up in that but thats what I am going to use. He doesn't think she can break it but I think she can. Anyhow we shall see. I'm going to take her out of her tank in a clean towel and lower her into dip. Sounds easy ha ha ha.
A friend is visiting here from Texas and she is going to help me. She is used to treating horses. She may never come to visit again.
Nothing ventured nothing gained. Tricide shiped today so I should have it tomorrow.
It's supposed to be kept in a cool dark place. The best I can do it get one of my pool umbrellas and put that right over top of acquarium when we are finished. If we make it past the first dip I'll let you know.
I had been following this thread and I am sorry you are having those problem Bonnie.
Belle
If your friend can't help you, I think I have tomorrow off after 11:00 if you need me.
Mary, if you have the time I would really appreciate it. Call me first to make sure dip has arrived please.
394-4883 or cell 352-223-1611
MM,
What a wonderful friend you are. How far is Bonnie's place from your?
Belle
Belle,
Guess I'm not the only one thats up half the night.
Our G-son is ill so i am flying to Alabama in aM. Thank God for texting.
the thread is on prayer request.
Belle
Bonnie,
It might have to be tomorrow(Friday) I totally forgot about Halloween and my grandbabies.
I'll call first and dig through my meds to see what I have left. Did you by chance get any anesthesia from the place in Apopka?
Belle...I'm about 30-40 minutes from Bonnie, close enough to help, but far enough that I have to have a larger chunk of time to do it. The fresh air around Bonnies large peice of property is very refreshing to this subdivision lady!
Mary, Had no trouble diping her into Tricide-neo or removing her from tank with fish sock. 15 mins. after I returned her to her stock tank she was dead.
I have 3 pictures of her wounds but will not post them on here as they are really bad.
If you want to see them you will have to send a personal e-mail address.
I buried her on left side of my angel statue. She is no longer hurting.
Oh Bonnie - I am so sorry. Poor thing isn't suffering anymore, but I don't know if I can say the same of any of the humans.
I would like to see pictures, if you don't mind. I will dmail my email addy to you.
Carolyn
Bonnie,
I am so sorry.
Belle
Oh noOOOO!!! I'm so sorry to hear she's gone! It certainly wasn't because of your lack of effort. Sometimes injuries are just bigger than what we can deal with. I'm so sorry Bonnie!
I'd love to see the pictures too....either post them, or Dmail them to me.
Bonnie,
Are you okay! You sure did everything to save him/ her.
Belle
Bonnie,
I am so sorry to hear about your loss!! I know you did everything you could to save her.
Shauna
Thanks all, I'm a big girl so I can handle it. Not the first time we have lost a fish. It was my son's and he understands.
M Mary, I can't find the pics and I had to go to an e-mail and download them to send to Jeff and then I deleted it all. He described it right. Said it looked like someone had taken a filet knife to her tail. Told me he knew nothing or no one could have saved her and forget it. Frankly I don't want to see those pics again but I know they are on my computer somewhere. If I run across them I'll send them to you.
Man did give him another fish but not as pretty as Big Moma was. I should have just put her to sleep myself before she got to that stage. It will NEVER happen again.
I will try meds for a week but after that if no improvement they will be done away with.
4 weeks is too long and too expensive to struggle with a fish.
Live and learn. I disinfected everything triocide-neo came in contact with. Many health warnings came with it.
We are getting a good rain here today. Looks dreary but a good day to catch up on mending and inside chores.
This weather is staying strangly warm. But beautiful for digging a pond and I know you are happy Mary.