I have ordered the following peonies for planting this fall. Lorelei, Salmon Dream, Mackinac Grand, Joseph Rock Peony Tree, Sublime Yellow, and Mother's Choice. Does anyone grow these peonies? Would love to hear your experiences with them.
Karen
What peonies have you ordered for planting this fall?
Sorry, I don't know those peonies. I've ordered Coral Charm, and I'm trading for a division of a Bartzella. Can anyone tell me about them?
Hi Pam! I planted Bartzella last fall and I got two beautiful lemony yellow flowers this spring. It has really pretty foliage too. The flowers are scented but I did not care for its fragrance. I think that you will like it very much.
I have mother's choice and I do recommend it. Mine had lots of huge voluptuous blossoms in its first season.
Bartzella might be my favorite intersectional. Somehow it didn't bloom much this year, but it has a nice upright habit and the blossoms are showstoppers. I am trying to compare it to garden treasure and prairie charm, but those plants didn't do much in the short time I have had them.
I have MacKinac Grand, in the ground for three years. Very upright strong stems and gorgeous red flowers that look like roses to me. I have Garden Treasure and Border Treasure as well as Lemon Chiffon. I think I like Garden Treasure the best. Lemon Chiffon is pretty but just yellow, no contrasting parts and pieces. My all time favorite for size, length of blooming and robustness was Red Charm. I rotted it this year. Tree peony would be Cora Louise.
I have ordered new Festiva Maximas and Mrs. FDRs because I put the ones I bought last year in a walnut tree bed. They were great roots but may be irreversibly damaged so I am moving them to a less conspicuous place and moving forward. I also found a source for Tourangelle and Cornelia Shaylor. I am getting two of each. I had been looking for Cornelia for ages and a DG friend found it at Parklands Perennials in Canada. I so appreciated his willingness to ship to me that I went in with a friend and we placed quite an order, since he had martagons she wanted. I am also getting Philippe Rivoire, which Old House Gardens has. The roots I got from him last year were enormous, and despite being in a walnut bed for a year may be fine, but peonies take so long to establish that I wanted to go ahead.
This message was edited Sep 8, 2013 5:41 PM
Hi Rosemary and Mary. I too like Garden Treasure a lot. GT flowers are much deeper yellow and larger than Bartzella. Mackinac Grand sounds awesome. I can't wait to grow it. I love the red peonies particularly. Their red shades are very special - none are alike.
This message was edited Aug 29, 2013 8:19 PM
Hey, all. I forgot to mention, I think that Bowl of Cream was the most amazing of my recently planted whites. There's room in my white peony garden for one more mid-sized white or blush peony with a bloom date around week 5. Since there are already thirty-two different white shaded ones there in different states of development, it is hard to identify something completely different. What I am craving is a dependable semidouble or Japanese style with monstrous sized blooms, if that exists. I have Carrera, Solo Flight and Lotus Queen already.
Any peony suggestions?
It just occurred to me that the bed is using a favored Gertrude Jekyl color scheme in spring. More ephemerals are needed still, but it starts out with white and blush tulips scattered with purple hues. The dwarf lilacs behind it are starting to work with the tulips. Earlier PFG suggested a hydrangea vine or the like behind that on the fence, and I have started one. In a sunnier part, hardy kiwi are planned. This garden area has been several years in the making.
I too am completely amazed at how beautiful the many shades of red peonies could look next to each other. With any luck, we will do the tree work and build the patio and wall so they can be together after next year. I can tolerate it if they pout a few years.
Hi Donna! Is there a reason peonies and walnut trees cannot grow together? I must say your pictures of Cornelia Shaylor are amazing. Those flowers were huge. I was tempted to order them when you said that they were available from Parkland but the hefty fee and shipping charge involved for just a peony root stopped me.
Rosemary, the only white semidouble white I know is Minnie Shaylor. Your garden sounds wonderful. Hope you can share with us some pictures when it is done.
The charges are why I went in with someone else to make purchases. She ordered a bunch of peonies and lilies and daylilies, so we are splitting both the shipping and the certificate. And his peony prices are quite reasonable. I personally avoid companies like Klehm because the basic peony prices are so high. I REALLY wanted Cornelia Shaylor. The only other source was in France, and that vendor refused to ship me a single peony.
I read several articles that mentioned the toxicity of walnut leaves damaging peonies. I also found that they damage asiatic lilies, although Silk Road, an orienpet was fine. Here is some text:
Black walnuts contain a chemical called "juglone" which can be allelopathic to other plants. According to Purdue University Cooperative Extension, "Juglone has experimentally been shown to be a respiration inhibitor which deprives sensitive plants of needed energy for metabolic activity." What that means to the gardeners is that many plants growing in the vicinity of a black walnut tree will either be killed or will struggle to live, with yellowing, wilting leaves.
Me again: and the roots of the darned things extend past the canopy. And it's also the nuts and roots. There are lists of plants that are affected, and it includes peonies, baptisia, nicotiana, hydrangeas, columbine, and asiatic and species lilies. All the asiatics I put in the bed disappeared.
Old House Gardens has a blurb on his website warning against planting peonies. Given that I got gorgeous roots from him, shame on me for not doing more research!
Roses, however, do just fine. So do heuchera. Chasmanthium latifolium. Nepeta. What the heck!
This message was edited Sep 8, 2013 5:42 PM
Sorry about the loss of so many plants, Donna. Good thing you like roses and that you have learned about the toxicity of black walnut before making any more investments.
Thank you, Rosemary. It's sweet of you to say. I had some wonderful mature peonies at my former home, and I know how many years it takes to get there. And as one gets older the years it will take for maturity mean more.
But what the heck! If I plant both peonies and roses, the roses will give me more immediate gratification, since they mature significantly in three years, while I wait for the peonies to catch up.
Donna, the peony roots I have gotten from Old House Gardens were very large, so perhaps you won't have to wait too long once the new ones get into new ground. Your Cornelia Shaylor blooms did look like crinkled petticoats, and Tourangelle is one I have been admiring.
I am looking up Kousa's suggestion of Minnie Shaylor. Nick might be lonely!
I was very impressed by the Old House Garden peonies. One of mine had 14 eyes, and his prices are very low - sometimes as little as half of those at some of the larger companies. These roots were so vigorous that once moved and replanted with love they may be fine. We'll see.
Is it just me? I used to think that OHG plants in general were very expensive, but a lot of other companies have raised their prices so much, and Scott has held the line so well, that after perhaps 5 years of not ordering I have placed orders two years in a row, since the prices, in some cases, look like bargains. And the quality! Have you seen his daffodil bulbs? They are ALL double nosed, and so big that I have to dig holes 50% larger, and then they multiply faster. I bought 5 Mt. Hoods that turned in 50 or so in about 5 years. I actually purchased trilliums this year because the prices looked very low to me, and the quality is always superb.
I really love OHG and order what I can afford from them. I especially like it that they give the history of what they sell and you always get a healthy, a true plant. Tulips, and daffs for sure.
I ordered 10 tuberoses from OHG this past spring. So far two bulbs are sending up flowing stalks. I can't wait to smell them.
Can one have too many peonies? I already have over 40 different cultivars and there are still many that I want to add to my garden. My DH thinks that I am out of control. Does anyone have the same problem? Is there a Peonies Anonymous Group?
I'd belong to it, Kousa! No chip for me. I'm unrepentant. I've ordered a bunch of herbaceous, and then since my hillside is lightly shaded, I started buying tree peonies to fill that area.
We recently moved to a deer-filled area, with garden troubles I didn't fully grasp until I bought a few faves I had at my last place which the deer promptly ate to the ground. So, then my DH asked me if there were any flowering plants that I like that deer won't eat. I mentioned peonies. He said, "Then we can fill our yard full of peonies." Sometimes, I've had to remind him that he had said that, but he didn't think it fawny. :P (Sorry, I had to!)
Tourangelle is one I intend to get next year. It looks like a beauty, but I keep seeing the same pics for it. I anxiously await for Donna to show me her photos for it next season.
This message was edited Aug 31, 2013 7:01 PM
I'm going wild. I forgot to mention that Bannister is replacing one of my peonies that was not what I ordered. I just ordered six viburnum for spring. Happily, I had crummy shrubs and their stumps removed by a professional, so planting will be easy. My garden center's fall activities included quality one dollar 40 pound bags of compost, up to 10 bags (got it yesterday) so if the compost I am TRYING to make doesn't work out I have that. Then there are the roses, with two pre-ordered for spring and more to be ordered. To cut down on labor two of them will be non-recurrent. I will have about 20 roses.
Tourangelle is a notorious flopper, but I have KILLER peony rings from Lee Valley. If they can handle a mature Cornelia Shaylor, which was freaking huge, they can handle anything!
You can see how big they got. The one to the left is Mrs. FDR, the one in the middle is Cornelia. The third one, which is farthest from the camera and is therefore smaller than it appears, is Festiva Maxima. Since a fair number of people have Festuva Maxima, this gives you an idea of just how big Cornelia Shaylor is.
Donna, your pictures of Cornelia Shaylor in the Plant Files are absolutely wonderful. Why is this plant not availabe for sale in the US. It maks no sense. Funnily enough, when I search Bing, one of the images that comes up is also yours from 2012.
I've been looking at the Adelmans' site for peonies, anyone ever get peonies from them, and the quality?
Donna, which peony rings do you like? I've looked on their site and gotten confused. I have a lot of cheap grow- through grids that sort of work on the big ones, but I'm ready to upgrade, a few at a time.
Cornelia used to be available at A&D. I actually got mine from a company in Canada. The father, who was a terrific correspondent, passed away a couple of years ago. The company had bad reviews but they also could get ANYTHING, because they were a consolidator. But my Mrs. FDR and Cornelia Shaylor came from him, and I have never had better peonies. Steve Fort Worth/Indianapolis said I had he highest bud counts on those peonies he had ever seen.
It's hilarious. If you Google certain plants, my images appear. They tend to be hard to find or out of commerce. If I Google Cornellnia Shaylor, images 1, 2, 10 and 13 are mine.And they repeat down the page. I also went on Help Me Find and posted them. I think that if you do it enough the things you love will come back into commerce.
Pam, because of the width of mine, I went with 20 inch rings. That is what you are seeing in the picture below. As you can see, they just barely contained these beauties, but they did the job. I only needed them for Ann Cousins, Cornelia Shaylor and Mrs. FDR. Ann Cousins is on the right in the picture, and it was mature - just barely contained in 2011!
I also used them for Festiva Maxima, but I didn't really need to. I bought these rings (they were my third set) because no store bought ring did the job. Since they are fairly expensive, I just bought what I needed, which I believe was four sets. I will surely need one for Tourangelle in the future.
I'm not 100% sure how long the legs are that I bought. It's dark here, but in the morning I will go into the garage and measure them and let you know.
Edited to remove numerous typos! Mustn't get so excited when I talk peony!
This message was edited Mar 27, 2014 5:13 PM
Thank you!
Donna, you're famous ;~) Your pictures can be seen all over the world!
I checked out the Lee Valley site for the peony supports. I can't believe you have to buy the legs separately from the rings. I have the circular rings that don't have the grid, but they do come with 3 legs, I bought a bunch of them from Walmart this year. My winter project may be to make the grids for the rings. I'll have to request the Lee Valley supports as present from the DH.
I finally placed my peony orders this evening. One of my must haves was Moonstone, I ordered 3 from Van Engelen. The rest came from OHG and Adelman's. I still have the potted plants that I got this past spring, another Festiva Maxima, Rosabel, Buckeye Bell, Jan Van Leeuwen, and Nancy Nora that I still need to plant. I'm waiting for the ground to cool down before I put them in. We may still have some hot weather ahead of us here in GA.
Cem,
It might get me into trouble from some of their adherents, but although I have met the Adelmans and they are lovely people, every Adelman peony I have ever ordered or been given has either not appeared at all (like Paul M. Wild and Tourangelle), or taken years to bloom, bloomed weakly, and died (Moonstone). I have been given gifts of their peonies that met a similar fate. It is the only company with which I have had that experience.
The peony dude par excellence, Steve Fort Worth/Indianapolis, had the same experience. Adelman peonies that didn't appear or died shortly thereafter. That was two years ago. I went to a peony show in Janesville Wisconsin about three years ago, and Adelman peonies deservedly won everything, bu I am finding them extraordinarily variable. Well, I would say variable, but all of mine didn't appear or died after taking 4-5 years to appear.
So I don't recommend them. They offered to replace Steve's, but when ALL of them are duds, who wants replacements?
Another good supplier is White Flower Farm. Their peonies, for me, have consistently appeared the year after planting, and they are excellent specimens. The only problem is that they send you the wrong peonies, and they do it repeatedly. I ordered three Festiva Maximas years ago (some may remember the incredible offer - 3 for $19.95) and was sent one FM, 1 Ann Cousins, and 1 Kansas - not what I wanted. When I pointed this out to them they offered to replace 1 Festiva Maxima, and they did - with Lady Alexandra Duff. Mind you, I love Lady Alexandra Duff, but I would never have ordered Ann Cousins (a very large flower that needs substantial staking, and it's just plain white) and I would never have ordered a Kansas (although I transplanted it here and it is really quite smashing). So my best peonies, early on, came from a company with a crummy reputation and a company that can't get the plant right but produces gorgeous ones.
Another point - the WFF peonies I transplanted - Kansas and Lady Alexandra Duff - actually improved after transplantation. And I had to rip their roots. They came back bigger and stronger than before. My Klehms (all gifts) and Adelmans all died. I was able to get the entire peonies of the Klehms because because they were newer. Moonstone, Lois, Coral Charm, White Frost, Tourangelle, Paul M. Wild, all gone, either in tha last year or because they never appeared.
Cem, I hear you on the legs, and it's a drag, but I went out this morning and photographed my Lee Valley legs next to conventional legs I got in garden centers. My Lee Valley ones are pretty clearly the 30 inchers - my peonies were very tall. Look at the thickness of these legs! Note that the other type bent when I was pushing it into the ground. I find that the smaller peonies either need no support or the smaller rings can handle it. But when you get the over the top peonies I love so much, Lee Valley is the ticket.
Donna's peonies look fab in their grid supports. I'm glad to know about Lee Valley because I hate the flimsy supports from most garden centers. Floppiness is to me a matter of degree until the rains knock them down, so starting with the higher supports on the taller ones is a must. With shorter sturdier peonies in front, I don't think they will be very visible.
Oh, thank you Rosemary!
What's interesting, though, is how far over the very sturdy supports some of these peonies grow. One thing I can tell you about Lee Valley is that you truly get what you pay for. None of the peonies supported by them have ever fallen. And when you lift the LV supports and then the usual supports, you can feel how, relatively, heavy they are.
I must say, though, that it's weird that they sell these as "grow through rings" when they are definitely suitable for peonies. I personally found it weird that they sell the legs in sets of 3, stating that 3 are enough to hold up a plant. Yeah, right. I went with 4.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/garden/page.aspx?p=10446&cat=2,43319,33282
Whereas what they call "peony hoops" look impractical to me, since adjusting the height looks tricky, and boy are they expensive!!
http://www.leevalley.com/en/garden/page.aspx?p=58904&cat=2,43319,33282,58904
I'm so excited... This is sooooo what I needed to know! Half of my cheap legs are bent, then carefully bent back, only to bend again. We have lovely rich soil, but all these stone walls are because... because they had to do something with all the stones they pulled out of the ground. And they didn't get them all. I'm always hitting something with those skinny legs no matter what. Plus, as soon as the the peony blooms come out full and there's even a sprinkle of rain and they weigh a ton, that's when those legs sink like the Titanic and the blooms are practically on the ground. Where are the stones then, I ask you?!
Pam, you are so funny!
Dear Rosemary, I was reading back on this thread and saw the information about your white peony bed.
Wow!
I am a huge fan of white. If there is a white varient of a plant, it is in my garden, like white polemonium. I adore white roses. The first picture is Madame Hardy, which, like a peony, only blooms once - but what a bloom!
Rose Marie Pavie.
Rose Jaquelyn DuPre
Rose Sea Foam
Your yard must be amazing. I don't have that many PEONIES, much less white ones.
I spent the afternoon digging out my front lawn. It is the biggest full sun area on my property that is not exposed to walnut leaves and nuts, and those peonies will be coming soon. I am going to mix them with roses that bloom all season. In a couple of years, it should be smashing!
Wow, your roses are "smashing", Donna. I particularly like the third one. Is that Rose Jaquelyn DuPre? It is gorgeous. Does it bloom continuously? I have always wondered how your mystery geraniums turn out? Did they flower this year? What do they look like?
Poinget, thanks for that! Wish that I have as much land as you. Even if I want all the peonies in the world, my backyard is just not big enough for them all.
Karen
Pam, your garden is gorgeous! Consider the stones as a mineral supplement for the plants ;~)
Donna, the price on the peony ring is jaw dropping. I guess the grow through grid will be the best thing. Thanks for the picture demo
I ordered Minnie Shaylor, a lovely white, as well as Mother's Choice last night as a part of my fall order.
Rosemary, I do have to agree that Bowl of Cream is a lovely peony.Here's BoC from 2012. I do love this peony. The blooms were icky, and stuck together due to all of the rain and moisture we had this year ;~(
This message was edited Sep 2, 2013 9:54 PM
Kousa, not only does Jacquelyn Du Pre bloom very consistently, but it has a fabulous scent. It was bred by Jack Harkness, who was Mr. English Roses before David Austin, and he was very insistent on plant health and scent.
And the geraniums ended up being maculatum, and they bloomed gorgeously with pale pink flowers. I was able to take them and scatter them in several spots. Here they are in the background of this picture. I just love them. They have a quiet charm. And they were free!
This is fun, thinking about peonies again, isn't it? Although I admire all the gorgeous peonies, not the least of which is Bowl of Cream, and Donna's roses, too, I am especially looking carefully at what is planted with what. Pam's beds knock my socks off.
My white and blush peony bed has been a four year work in progress and far from done. It needs a bench or a fountain for example. This year, I added an inch of soil and plant material to it. Should be gradual enough, I hope, and they were planted especially shallowly. The many boulders and ledge in the area determined the final planting scheme, and cause some concern for the root depth. The plants on one side have been shy to bloom very heavily so I hope it isn't too shady there, and perhaps they just need another year to get established. It was nature's idea to place the ledge where it is to fool me. The first year six bushes did so well, I was sure I could add more and expand to two more rows.
I think we should be glad we like peonies so much! When August heat hits us, they are the one plant that is carefree, because they seem to hang on by themselves while we busily water the hydrangeas and rhodis and tender perennials.
It is fun, thinking about Peonies now, when they are such well-behaved shrubs and others are decidedly not.
Thanks, everyone, for the comments. I can't take credit for those gorgeous mature clumps, they've been here for years. A lot of the rest is mine, though, rescued from overgrowth and neglect. I know I've made a lot of progress, especially in the last couple of years, but I keep seeing holes and clashes. It's nice to be reminded of what's working, lol!
Rosemary, your peonies must be outrageous when they bloom! I know you've posted many beautiful shots of individual booms, but I don't think I've ever seen a 'big' picture... Do you have any? Have I missed them?
I didn't take many panarama shots since it's not really filled in, but perhaps you can treat this as a "before" view, from early spring until week 5 of bloom season.
And now the peony bushes are looking to be still alive as of today. First shot looks up the hill toward the white peonies at the back. The bed after a little work.
The bushes have grown a lot already, haven't they? How beautiful spring will be, and getting more so every year. What a wonderful project!
Thanks.It is indeed nice to see growth. Fingers crossed that they will keep filling-in and then bloom more spectacularly after they get more nourishment. The shady photos were taken in early morning since the back of the bed is easterly. The shade from the south side is doomed once the emerald ash borer gets to New England.
I did order more tulips. The lilacs are dwarfs so they won't overrun the peonies. Maybe more of an herb border later, but all has to happen in its time. Gardening is like that isn't it? I had no idea ledge was so close to the bottom of the bed until it was planting time.
Oh Rosemary, I love the tulips. Seeing yours reminds me of how much I enjoy the sight of them. I think I will have to get a few, protect them with Bobbex, and see how it goes. I, too, am looking at what people plant with what, so I'm loving the garden photos. I intended on having one or two dedicated peony beds, but that didn't last. I'd like something to complement them or accompany them for when they aren't up and about. I've already bought daffodils, but I don't think that'll give the display I want without buying a ton of them. I've begun to experiment with plant combinations in other beds, but I've read so often that peonies don't like to compete for resources, that I'm hesitant to buy anything bigger than a bulb to plant alongside them.
Cem, is that a red rose behind your BoC? Are the centres really as white as the pictures make them appear? Super effect! Especially against your white peonies.
Pam, your garden is looking great, and Donna, as always, your roses are ridiculous. Though, I think your pic of Heritage is still my favourite.
I think peonies are tougher than that. I was told in a class at the Bronx Botanical Garden that they will bloom through just about anything except grass. They've been found blooming in old gardens that were neglected for decades, through all kinds of competitors. I'm planting bulbs, Siberian and Tall Bearded Iris, and Daylilies with mine. Actually the SIBs are behind, along with Asters, Monarda, Achillea and Japanese Anemones. TBI's, Daylilies, Liatris, Salvias and Dianthus are between and in front of them. My older, established clumps are with Hardy Geraniums and Alchemilla for groundcovers, Digitalis Grandiflora and violets have crept in as well. They don't seem to notice, at least not so far.