STARTING OUR SPRING VEGGIE GARDEN Pt. 2

I've never started seeds indoors before. I direct sow. I do want to get an early start this year. For those that use the solo and yogurt cups, do you put holes in the bottom of them? Also, what soil do you use to start them? I saw the picture with the solo cups sitting in the aluminum pan, if the hole is in the cup, do you fill the pan with water?

Sorry for all the questions. I see all the healthy pictures and want to be able to do it as well. Love the pictures! Thanks in advance.

Linda - I'm a big fan of "This Old House" and if I remember correctly, they have said wood should not come into contact with concrete. You have to put a metal thingy between the concrete and the wood. Of course, if it's not a permanent structure, it probably doesn't matter.

Lynda, are you using thin conduit, EMT, fence pipe, or the thick wall galvanized plumbing pipe?? The conduit clamps will work great for what you're doing, and they will be stong enough for the 7' height, but use two clamps, one at top and one on the bottom, to give extra stability. I did a 17' wide arch over the driveway for Christmas light arch using 1 1/2" PVC thick wall pipe for rigidity. The conduit clamps are screwed into the 4X6 timber fence posts... Just looking back at your pics, you would probably want to go into the end with the 4X4 corner posts for extra strength with 3" exterior deck screws.

Jog my memory, how tall is your RB? Isn't it 24"? The one we built was doubled 2X12's correct? If it's 24" deep, you'll have plenty of bed to attach the straps. If it's shorter, you might have to dig a little pier hole. HD & Lowe's have cement tube forms in a lot of different sizes, and a bag or 2 of redi-mix & some agua, if you have to go that route.

Suzie - don't be sorry about asking questions - we DGers LOVE to answer gardening questions.

Personally, I use 3oz plastic Solo cups to start seeds (one seed per cup.) I poke a single hole in the base, several holes around the perimeter of the base, and another set of holes around the cup a third of the way up from the base. This keeps air in the root system. Roots need air just like we do :)

Here's my soil recipe - some of the more obscure items you can eliminate.

1 brick classic coir soaked in 4qts hot water makes a little over one gallon
1 gallon worm castings, keep bag closed after each use to prevent drying
2 gallons coarse perlite
1 gallon vermiculite
2 tablespoons bone meal with iron
¾ teaspoon trace elements
4 tablespoons dolomite lime
¼ cup soil moist
½ cup Numus (optional)
1 cup crab shell
1 tablespoon phosphate

I initially considered the pipe straps, but for the number I would need, the PVC turned out to be a lot cheaper. PVC comes in a huge number of sizes -- 1/2" increments in the large sizes and 1/4" in the smaller sizes, so I'm surprised you didn't find one that worked. The connection doesn't have to be completely snug for it to work. What is the outside diameter of the pipe you are trying to use?

Susie, you can buy bags of seed starter mix at the big box stores if you dont want to make your own.

Suzie, yes poke holes in the bottom of the cups and place them on something to catch any water that might seep out when you water. I used 6oz yogurt cups for my starters and filled about 1/2 full with seed starter mix. When the plants were big enough, I planted up into 16 oz SOLO cups. I usually poke 3-4 holes in the bottom of each using an ice pick. If hubby's around, he likes to use his power drill and the smallest bit he can find.

Piers! That's the word I was looking for!

Ok, we're getting there....

I am using the repurposed 6' galvanized steel posts from my previous fence. They are to be sunk into the ground on the OUTSIDE of the raised bed. I need to make a pier to sink into the two holes that are already dug. Then, I can slip the fence posts down into the pier, and take them out at the end of the season. I can put a stepping stone over the pier holes.

I believe the fence posts are 6 mm diameter (standard 3"). The next largest size PVC pipe available was 4", and would leave too much wobble room if it set the posts down into those sleeves.

So, if I get a 3" tube form, and set it into a 3.5" form, then pour some quickrete between the two forms, when I remove the 3" tube form, I'll have the pier I need to bury in the hole. Then, slip my fence posts into that pier.

Yes? No? Maybe so? Close?

Lettuce is up! Still no sign of peas, which is very odd.

That's 1/4" emitter tubing in the pictures for size reference.

Photo 1: "Cherry Belle" radish
Photo 2: iceberg lettuce
Photo 2: "America" spinach
Photo 4: "Powder Blue" rabbiteye blueberry
Photo 5: "Hakeuri" turnip


This message was edited Feb 18, 2013 12:55 PM

VERY nice pics. Love your photography!

Linda,

Dig a hole, coat your pipe in Vaseline, brace it at the location you want (possibly with a larger, 10-12 cardboard form around everything, then fill with concrete. It will contract slightly when it dries, and should let you pull the pipe out, leaving a sleeve to reinsert the pipe. However, I do think the conduit clamps (at least 2 per pipe) would be strong enough to hold the frame.

David

A few more spring edibles and herbs (witchhazel, hazelnut, rosemary).

This message was edited Feb 18, 2013 1:52 PM

I have Rosemary it's been in the ground for 15 yrs but never bloomed.

DING, DING, DING, DING, DING! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!

David!
That's EXACTLY the answer I was looking for. Trust me. These frames are holding up a LOT of weight, which is why I need to anchor those uprights into the ground. My yard is on a perpetual crosswind, and when we have blustery, gusting winds, the lines and vines hanging from them may sway, but that frame (holding it all up) should not bend in the wind, or sway more than 1/4-1/2"!

You solved my problem when you said, "coat your pipe in Vaseline". I KNEW there was something involved that would keep the pipe from setting itself when the concrete was poured! My two holes are already dug, 20" down (the first two were a full 24", but, this helper ran outta steam, and quit at 20")...

I can stop by Lowes to pick up two 3.5" tube forms!

THANKS, A BUNCH!

P.S. We're supposed to have a 30% chance of rain sometime Wednesday afternoon, and thunderstorms by Thursday. If I pour the quickrete this evening, will it be ok by Wednesday afternoon? Also, will one bag do it? Can I do like I see on TV and pour the dry quikrete into the hole around the post, then add the water? Or should I mix it first in a bucket and pour it in?

Rosemary blooms?

Have you ever propagated your rosemary? I need a fairly large amount for some Rosemary-Orange marmalade I'd like to make.

I have a very small plant that I've managed to keep alive, once I learned that Rosemary thrives on neglect and abuse. Looking quite healthy and content, now. I've killed quite a few with kindness..

LMK.

Depends on the rosemary- am not sure my prostrate rosemary will- but its growing gangbusters - my daughter believes rosemary is grown for the blooms- i have fits getting her to keep it trimmed back...pretty little blue blooms.

I've never done anything with this Rosemary....maybe that's why it's doing so well.

This message was edited Feb 18, 2013 3:21 PM

We had one up by the porch- got to be a bush 4'wide and 3' tall. died back inside before I could talk her into pruning, and then she dug it up and bur.ed it cuz it was dead in the middle, chuckl. She fusses at me everytime I get the scissors after the garlic chives, mother of thyme, basil, etc. 'Mama! They were abiut to bloom!' It wont kill em hon, ...

Rosemary should grow like gangbusters in TX; it's native to the Mediterranean. It doesn't need (or want) much water and hot sun is perfect. If you are watering or fertilizing it or have it in nice soil... stop. :) My old house had rosemary shrubs of unknown variety 5' tall and 10' in diameter! I planted the "Arp Hardy" in the picture last spring and it's a good 2' round now.

They don't burst forth in tons of flowers all at once-- just a couple dozen here and there during the late winter.
I've never had a rosemary bush not bloom, except the 3 "Tuscan Blue" plants I also planted last spring. Lovely dark foliage, but not a trace of bloom this year. I don't know if that's a function of age, size (they are smaller than the other) or if some varieties are more prone to bloom than others.

I've always been told that growing rosemary from seed is very difficult, but I have no problem starting them by tip cuttings. Layering also works -- if you snoop around the bottom the bush sometimes you'll find branches laying on the ground that already have roots.

Start over again. sigh. She was relocati.g the overgrown lorapetalum to a new home and had to move it. I didn't know if I could trim it as much as I needed without killing it. They grow easy here. I have one now that has trebled in size even getting water and fertilizers the rest of my veggies are getti.g. I layered some and knew she wanted starts for her other mother and had them ready, chuckl.

Took a photo of my rosemary blooms yesterday but really just managed to get a nice shot of my garden feet.

Nice feet. Call me when you're ready to divide that rosemary!!

I kinda like the feet herbs ,myself , Where did you ever find those ?,
I typed it in the plant search . All I got back was things about people with sore feet ... lol

Rosemary is another pretty plant , long , long, time favorite


Well I found em!!! Aisle #4 garden cart !Right next to the thumbs!!!!

This message was edited Feb 18, 2013 6:51 PM

Love the feet! Funny, artsy shot. Just need bare legs and painted toenails to make it complete.

My Rosemary is totally neglected. But it never blooms. I don't cut it back I don't do anything to it.

Yes, the trailing Rosemary will bloom. I don't have a photo of my in bloom but it does, just not as freely as the bush does.

A closeup of my bush Rosemary bloom. I love the intense blue... but sorry no footsies.
But they were cute Steadycam. 8 )

I used to have a very large rosemary bush that bloomed a lot. Then the chickens discovered it. Needless to say, I no longer have it.

I'm waiting for about 2-3 days with no rain so I can dig in some compost & prepare the remainder of my raised beds.I've got a lot of pepper seedlings that need to go out. Plus a few ground cherries I'm trying for the first time this year.
Jo-Ann

Linda, if you have much force, then I would make the footing more than 3.5". I would make it at least 8", if not larger. Also make sure you coat the pipe heavily.

Dan & Linda>> Never heard of using Vaseline to release concrete forms. I drove concrete mixer for close to 10 years, and I saw a lot of things, but never that. Dan's right, if you're expecting that much stress, you need at least 3X the diameter of the pipe for your pier hole. Personally, I think you're over-engineering this a bit, as the weight of the plant is going to be bourne by the bed, and all we're doing is stabilizing it, but I could be wrong.

Linda>> BTW, I think the smallest tube form is about 10 or 12 inches. That's about the standard minimum size for the form. Just checked HD website 8" is the minimum...

This message was edited Feb 19, 2013 12:49 PM

Linda,

Other possibilities are lard, bacon grease, Crisco, auto grease, or motor oil. Don't leave clumps of the release agent, just make sure there is an even coat. Commercial release agents can be sprayed on to the form. Some builders spray diesel on wooden forms. In this case, both the pipe and the cardboard tube are your forms. I would use a thicker release agent, not a spray, on your pipe.

David

Ok, now I'm getting confused, a bit...information overload...

I bought two 50 lb. bags of fast set Quikrete yesterday, hoping to set the poles, but it had rained. I looked at the cardboard forms, and yes, 8" was the smallest diameter available. But, I think that may be overkill. Also, the holes weren't dug that big around, and I can't do it. The two posts on the other end are sunk directly into the holes, 24" each. No concrete or piers, and they've held up...

So, I was gonna go with David's plan, and just coat the bottom 22" of the post, set it into the hole, level it, pour in the Quikrete, then pour the water in (like on the DIY programs -- no mixing in the wheelbarrow...). Then, I'll stand there like a garden statue, holding the pole upright until the quikrete sets...at some point, when I think the quikrete has set enough, I'll carefully start to wiggle the post out of the hole, and PRAY that the concrete doesn't collapse in on itself...

Am I on track here? I really can't make those holes a full 8" diameter x 2'D to accommodate the cardboard tubes...

Thanks, guys, for working with me on this. And, thanks to those who have been patient with the sidebar (which is directly related to my spring veggie garden preparation)

Ummm. you are better to set a level and build a brace that will hold the posts in the concrete than to hold them yourself. HUMANS tend not to hold posts truly straight, chuckl, and that can lead to frustrations later.

Kitt, that's too many steps for me to handle!

Can't I just stand there with the post leveler a DGer friend so lovingly gifted me with? I'm a pretty patient person...and, I can meditate and pray, and reflect on the error of my ways, while I'm standing, LOL!

The avocado is putting out a ton of new leaves, rainbow chard seems to finally have its footing after being devoured by bugs all winter, lettuces are coming in delightfully well, and while I know it's not a vegetable, caught my first strawberry forming today. Woo!

AND my landlord has been so impressed by my progress with his yard that he's installing a pergola next month and asking me what to put on it. I may try mirlitons and roses together, or runner beans and passionflowers...so excited to have another spot to put all of this stuff. Never enough space!

You COULD mix the quik-crete to a thick consistency and pack it around the pipe but to have a "socket" you will lose your rigidity that you're trying to design into this project. With just dumping the quik crete in and adding water on top I don't think your strength will be the same as it would be wet-mixed.

Uh, Socket? What's a socket?

Ok. I can mix the quikrete in a bucket and pour it in...

Actually, I could do this OUTSIDE the hole first. Find a tall, narrow bucket or whatever, stand the post in that, then pour the quikrete in and let it set. Probably easier to prop the post upright too. Then, when it sets, pull out the post. At least I can see if the quikrete collapses. If it holds, then I could sink the pier in the hole.

You know, I could probably go ahead and buy the 8" cardboard tube, split it on one side, then wind it tight enough to make a smaller form. Hold it together with some good old duck tape and pour the quikrete in. At least I'd have the right diameter pier to set down into the hole...

It's a just cardboard tube, Linda. Surely you have a roll of shade cloth, weed/nursery cloth, window screen or something that had a smaller but very sturdy cardboard tube?

That is really tuff cardboard. The socket means the hole your post is in if you wish it to be removed from your pier. Umm, sounds so fancy. I would justdig a hole and insert a metal piece of pipe hole into the concrete that would holdmy post and just not worry about removing the metal from the concrete. Better than pvc and can be as deep as the 8" hole. Comes in more sizes than pvc too..

I would probably just grab some of those tall skinny aspsragus cans for the hole socket in the pier..