Seed starting spring 2013

HGTV used to have a show called "A Gardener's Diary". I was really bummed when they cancelled it. The show toured home owner's established gardens. There was one show called "The Mondo Man". Now I think of his amazing garden every time I see or hear about mondo grass. Info about the episode:
http://www.hgtv.com/landscaping/mondo-man/index.html

Thanks Terri, Very interesting read. I know that Ric and I were impressed with the paths lined with Mondo Grass we have seen while on garden tours but I don't think I ever thought of using it as a lawn replacement. Not here at our house but it would work in areas of my parents yard. Holly


Mondo man, Way Cool! I think the only thing I've ever planted 50,000 of, were geraniums. I'll have to see if they repeat that show. Ric

This message was edited Mar 1, 2013 11:03 AM

march one...ack ! i better get ready for more seed starting pronto!

I am going to try to grow something edible this year. Can anybody tell me if any of the following herbs can be WS'ed?

Oregano
Chives
Parsley
Cilantro

Donner,

That is a good question. I thought that only hardy perennials can be WS. I have been holding my herbs to start inside. Hopefully somebody can elaborate on that.

Chives Parsley yes
THough I have started my parsley inside already.
Oregano being hardy, I'd try some
Cilantro I would assume warmth needed.

Sally--

Not a WS expert--as you all know. BUT--I can tell you that parsley lives through the winter and continues
growing the next year. The only thing--in year #two--it will "bolt" and make seeds.
You can remove this stem(s) to keep it growing. I always grow Flatleaf Parsley.
Does this make it a perennial????? Its a seed i will be starting indoors and potting up outside in the spring.
I may grow it in a bed this year instead in a pot. Should grow better..fuller....be more lush.

Cilantro??? it is so much like Parsley--but i don't know....I don't grow it. Don't like the taste.

Chives are definitely a perennial. I have had a clump of it for years. It slowly grows in size.
Right now--my Chive's clump is already putting out new growth--about 3" tall.
It is right behind all the garlic I planted. In good company....:o)
Chives also bloom, after which the clump seems to decline a bit. Maybe the bloom stems
can be removed to allow it to "produce" better and longer???

AND---Don't forget the Garlic Chives! Definitely a perennial! The spikes are FLAT and taste like garlic.
I have oodles of seed. Can also look around my neighbor's bed--she always has piles of them just coming up.
Sally--Maybe i can pot up some root divisions of my Chives for you. Yes? no?
I would do it right now.
Garlic Chives bloom beautifully--and make a zillion big seeds, which scatter and grow into new chives.

Some Oregano is perennial. It does die back in the winter and then resumes growing the next year.

I had a pot of Greek Oregano I got from Jill. The only one I have grown. Ask her if other oregano are perennial.
PF should also be of help.

Of course--you should be able to find this info also on all packets of seed. Even when, and how, to start it.

I like that i can go out and break off pieces of my fresh parsley. Smells so good!
The more you pick--the more it grows.
Gita

Pic. Garlic Chives in bloom.

Sally---we cross-posted....G.

Gita and Sally, thanks. I will start them this weekend :-). Will try cilantro indoors and the rest of them outdoors.

Gita, if I can get a division of your chives, that will be great! Very generous of you, as always.

I loved that show and also miss it. It seems that HGTV is missing a lot of the G lately.

I'd do Oregano from a start or a cutting rather than by seed, that way you get a great-tasting cultivar. I am sure I'll be able to get some divisions again this year for those who want it. Donner, if you could remind me before the Spring swap (or any time you happen to swing by), I'd appreciate it!

Chives.. can definitely be winter sown as they "volunteer" with great enthusiasm. I can also dig clumps of 'garlic chives" from the front bed.. I'm sure they're still trying to take over despite my efforts to kill at least some of them off last fall!

Parsley and Cilantro I think I'd treat as half-hardy annuals and wait until late March or early April to "winter" sow them, but somebody else may have more experience with them.

Just so you know, Terp. Most seeds can be winter sown as long as you put the tender ones out much later than the perennials. I'll put my tenders out in a few weeks. If we are going to have a real frost, I throw a blanket over them for the night.

Thanks Roses! That's great, Winter Sowing is much more appealing to me :)

I wintersowed parsley last year with great success. There were 2 milk jugs full of seedlings so I ended up giving away most of them. My wintersown parsley were very healthy and grew really well in my clay (in half- and full-shade).

Parsley, being a biennial, stayed evergreen all winter, and now I'm waiting for them to set seed this year. I'm also WSing more parsley this year, so I'll have them in perpetuity! (I love this herb, if you can't tell!)

I WS'd chives last year, but they took forever to germinate. I ended up forgetting about them, and by the time I noticed the jugs late in the spring, the soil was gross and moldy. I ended up composting the whole thing, even though they'd sprouted well by that point. I'm WSing them again this year using Al's 5:1:1 mix in hopes of preventing that yucky wet soil.

I'm WSing cilantro tomorrow. Well, I guess it's definitely spring-sowing and not WS at this point. :) I'll report back to you with how they do!

My progress so far: I hauled out last year's ungerminated winter sown containers (there were a LOT, maybe just not enough cold after I sowed), made sure they were watered, and put them into the bed in front of the deck rather than on the gravel under it. Maybe something will sprout? Maybe I should take advantage of having ready-to-go containers and oversow with something that will look quite different than last year's seed, so I can tell what I have if I get sprouts...

We've got some cold weather coming again next week, so this weekend is a great time to get those jugs out there!

Ssg do you have any more parsley seeds?? I'm encouraged by your experiences with it. Whenever we buy parsley starts they don't last long. I was told parsley has a hard time in this area for some reason.

Terp, I think I have a teeny bit of parsley seeds left. I'm terribly disorganized with my seeds... :P I could give you the leftover seeds, or you could just take a few starters after they sprout.

Btw, they did much better in the ground than in containers. I kept two in containers and they stayed really small and suffered in the summer heat. The ones in the ground didn't even need to be watered.

Paul--

ALL Burpee seed packets at HD are @1.19. And--you know they will have Parsley.
HD also carries Ferry Morse seed packets. AND--Martha Stewart seeds as well.

I will be sowing my remaining seeds this week. Maybe I should WS a bottle of Parsley to compare
to ones i will start in the house. Hmmmm..........

Then--for comparison---You can also get an already started pot of any herbs once"Bonnie Plants" sets up
In outside garden at HD, They always have many, many stems of herbs in one pot. $3,48.

I can also go to "Richardson Farms" store here and buy a 4" pot of already started Parsley for $2.50.

Let someone else do the seeding,growing,and baby-sitting for you....
I know....I know....growing it yourself just makes it taste better--right? Gita

Thx Gita!

One big problem with my in ground parsley- voles just LOVE it.

TOnight, indoors, planted alyssum, celosia, sweet william, tomato (one kind, the Aunt Jewel German) and mexicann tarragon ( a type of marigold)

Jill I had a couple last-year WS pots to restart also, what the hey...

THe flat of four packs that I started for wintersowing a couple weeks ago- are in a loose plastic bag, I can see that a couple on the open end dried out pretty fast. So I guess thats why the closed idea helps out (milk jug, soda bottle)

Sally--
Just wondering........

IF you planted your Parsley in a big pot--and then dug the pot into the bed--as in Brugmansias--
the Voles would not be getting to the roots.
Put a small square of wire mesh over the drain hole so they can't get in the pot.

I am assuming that voles eat up the roots. Right? Or do they eat the parsley itself?

Must never ASSUME---it makes an--"ASS"--out of "U" and ME

This message was edited Mar 1, 2013 10:19 PM

Jill, thanks. I will plant parsley outdoors and cilantro indoors then. It will be great if you can get an oregano and some garlic chives for me from your big plants.

Gita, thats a Great idea! Like with other plants---The voles just come up under the plants, eat the roots, and one day you find a totally wilted plant, pick it up to find it detached, no roots, and a hole underneath. They would probably tell me to be glad they do not eat the leaves which is the part I wanted anyway.

I had a couple baby parsleys in the fall, in the dirt, I potted them , so I will screen the drain holes, (plenty of pieces of screening from replacing window screens) and sink it. Same with my new ones, ASS uming my seedlings do ok!

No problem, Donner-Sally (but please do remind me, or I'll get distracted counting lilies and forget you wanted them). And remember, you've been warned about the consequences of letting the garlic chives go to seed... Fortunately, I gave them only a very small area to be thuggish in. I can't just chop back the buds, because the butterflies love the late summer blooms and I can't grudge a monarch any meal it can find before traveling all those miles! Then I *mean* to deadhead but get distracted, and, well, my garlic chives are less like a few clumps and more like an expanding thicket!

Jill, thanks for the warning :-). I didn't know that garlic chives reseeded so aggressively. I will make sure to deadhead them.

In Chinese cooking, garlic chives are used as vegetables in large quantities. Remove the older leaves, cut them info 1' pieces, and saute them with shrimp, thinly shredded meat, or even eggs. Whatever you cook with garlic chives, the key is that its cooking time needs to be very short because garlic chives will cook in just a couple of minutes in high heat. I do not have enough ambition to grow them in such quantities. Will grow a small pot of them for flavoring. Yum!

neat- I definitely need to cut and use more garlic chives.

Regular chives do not seed or even multiply much at all in my garden.

This morning Mark announced that he wants to start some seeds. He took a pack of Theresa's Italian basil seeds at swap. I'll help him pot them today. Gardening- it's contagious eventually! Only took 23 years.

Sally, I was sitting next to Mark during the flower-bingo game. I think he was surprised at how many he knew, and then I heard him say that he would like to learn more. It made me smile. I often think how nice it would be if Mike shared the gardening interest, maybe one of these years... The one thing that he does like doing is anything that involves heavy equipment. He has been so helpful when it comes to getting dump truck loads of topsoil, compost, and mulch, making paths, and digging holes if the holes need to be big enough to involve a backhoe LOL.

I'm a little disappointed at my germination rates in the GH. I may not have enough heat at night. I may have to germinate in the house then move them. Ric

Sorry to hear that Ric. Do you use any kind of bottom heat/heat pad?

If I am recalling correctly, we had to use bottom heat to get our seeds and cuttings to 'take' this early in our commercial size greenhouse that was heated to not go below 50 to 60 degrees at min, (We also rigged a mini-greenhouse humidity enhancing plastic tent over certain cuttings and seedlings that we could also 'mist')

Bottomheat came from a tube arrangement on the benches (like radiant flooring) that circulated hot water produced by an Aquastar instant heater. Wonder if smaller scale recirc pump with water reservoir being an aquarium and heated like one might be cobbled up. Putting trays on strofoam panels or those packing boxes also has helped...like 'hatching chickens' Rig up something smaller til they get bigger. Bottom line hope all your seed starting work can be salvaged by quick action and attention on your part. Sounds like you are on it.

Some seeds just won't budge til soil temp is warm enough for them. Try playing some germinating music for them!!

And remember how much trial and error there was until you got seed starting down in the house or outdoors in milk jugs....If Mother Nature depended on us to plant populate the earth we'd all be doing without.. Just my opinion.

Judy

Judy, we do have a couple of heating mats that I used a few years ago. Thanks for the reminder. Holly

We also didn't sow any of our seeds all at the same time but made successive trays or flatsabout a week apart. say three times, and if one or more batches weren't germinating very well we re-sowed them and pricked out those that did germinate for our own use. As a commercial venture we needed some sort of semi-uniform stock to sell or pot up and grow on.

Even working with plugs or tissue cultue 'starts' there was quite a large variance in plant growth. We didn't use growth regulators to speed up or slow down growth like the big guys do, we just pulled and sold those plants ready for sale and let the rest grow on a bit longer. Hard when you want to plant that front border with annuals and some of them are puny! It is nice to have some back up plants growing in the wings just in case...or to share!

All of my 'tropicals' were 'not ready for sale' rejects!

Holy--

In case you have hot air heat in the house--with the registers near the floorboards--
you could set up a crate/shelf over them and put your seed trays on that. Nice heat--day and night...

This works really good for me--as my seed growing rack's bottom shelf sits directly above
the heat register under the window. Nice and warm down there. I put my covered/vented plastic trays there,
and the seeds pop up pretty good.

I never planned it this way--it just all happens to be there.
Just took this to show you. These 3 containers of seeds were just started Monday.

Most of these came up within a week. More or less.....

1--This tray is all Snapdragons from Birder. They are ssooo tiny! The stems are like threads....
The bigger leafed seedlings are Melampodiums.

2--This is one of the trays I just did. good re-use of a high-domed deli tray from office parties.

3--This tray held a Tiramisu cake. Perfect for seed-starting. The lid is over 4" high.

Your recycle Queen--Moi.

No hot air heat like you are talking about Gita. But the Plant Room on the second floor is over the the room with the coal stove so it is pretty warm in there.

Alright. So I have tried my hand at WS a few things. I have some questions and comments.

I opted to use regular potting soil because that is what I had on hand.
I cut slits in the tops and bottoms of my containers for drainage (bottom) and let water evaporate/enter the jub (top).

Here are my questions.
1. I don't need to remove any lids as well do I? The cuts in the containers is sufficient enough?
2. I have placed the containers all over the place. But my main focus was to keep them in filtered morning light (usually under bare or thin shrubs (azaleas).

So now I'm really focusing on trying get as many seeds WS as possible.

Here is what is left:
Sweet William
Zinnias
Marigold
Lupines
Papaver Somniferum
Alyssum
Sunflowers
Cosmos
Canna Patens (packet says scarify)
Aster
ganzania
Red annual surprise mix
tomatos
Wintersweet shrub
Nemophila Maculata (five spot)
Nectaros-Cordum (Mediterranean Bells, Sicilian Honey Lily, Ornamental Onion, Sicilian Garlic)
Huskers Red
Yellow Elder & Ferocactus wizenli (barrel cactus)

A little overwhelmed.

Marigolds- dont, they grow really fast anyway
Papaver for sure do, they need to stratify

Wintersweet don't- grew really fast and 100 percent germ on my indoor shelf.

Your method so far sounds fine to me. The lid keeps it from drying out- I can see that mine are drying too easily without a lid.

Paul--

Not an WS'ing expert here--so just a couple comments....

Think of it this way. If any given flower drops its seeds in the fall and they come up by themselves
the following spring/summer--WS'ing these seems OK. Just imitating Nature....


--Zinnias come up really fast. Easy annuals to grow from seed. I don't think they are suited for WS.
--Same for Marigolds. They are usually started from seed in the spring.
--Sunflowers & Gazania---I think they fall in the same category as above.
--Tomatoes? NO! NO! They are warm weather plants. start indoors.
--Wintersweet--did you drop some seeds in a bed last August? Their seeds do well outside all winter
and come up when they are good and ready in early summer.

I do not know most of the other plants you listed. If they are perennials--you can WS, just may not get bloom the 1st year.
That is normal. There may be some exceptions.....

Re the lids----what containers are you using? If it is a jar- then removing the lid would be too much.
If it is a soda/milk bottle--removing the cap is standard practice, I believe.
Slits may work on the bottom for drainage--but not so well at the top for ventilation.

OK! I am sure someone with more experience will jump in and give you the facts....

Gita

I move 3 flats up to the mud room, where the stove is, to see if they pop. Soil temp there should be about 80*F. Ric

I always remove the lids. I guess it could be bad if they're drying out too fast, but good to catch more more of the moisture when it rains. Never had a problem with drying out unless we had an early hot dry spell. I just turn the hose on them if this happens.