STARTING OUR 2012 FALL/WINTER VEGGIE GARDENS - PT. 3

Except, they're really not like the dried peas, are they? The flavor and especially the texture of fresh-frozen beans and Southern peas - even fully ripe ones - is very different from that of the same dried. Here I can buy them both ways at the grocers, and it seems to me the dried ones are always tougher, starchier and more grainy than the fresh frozen.

-Rich

Interesting. Thanks!

Been a very busy few months but I'm excited to see how things turn out for fall/winter. I've never done anything other than tomatoes/cukes for fall so I can't wait to see how things go. I've planted/transplanted

Tomatoes (18 varieties now to find the planting chart to see what is what)
beans (bush)
cabbage (3 varieties)
beets
turnips (2 varieties)
lettuce (4 varieties)
spinach (2 varieties)
brussel sprouts
collard greens
mustard greens
broccoli


Will spend the weekend working on the fennel, carrots, parsnips, radishes and garlic raised bed

Hey there araness. So you will be sowing carrots this weekend? I was wondering when I should be doing the same...I had a trusty Harris County vegetable planner that would guide me (although I'm in Galveston County...close enough) but I can't find it.

Anyway, what kind of carrots are you growing? Maybe I'll sow carrots this weekend as well!

Wondering when you'd be back!

A few tips:
►stake the broccoli (Hungry HIPPO, Water HOGS) and brussels sprouts EARLY
►don't feed the beets and turnips too much nitrogen, or you'll end up with all leaves and tiny roots
►harvest the outter leaves of the mustards and collards every 4-6 weeks, and they'll keep going until the heat or the aphid/loopers get em in the springtime...

Pictures?

We use dried beans for seeds here. :)

I guess you could use them like dried beans, but I've never done that, so don't know. We just make black-eyed peas as a side dish, or Texas Caviar.

I grew up eating dried beans, particularly Camelia Red Kidney Beans. Lady Cream Peas and Purple Hulls were the first non-dried beans I ever ate. I LOVE Lady Cream Peas!

I LOVE beans, period!

GG, I'm doing 90% in the EB's and since I don't do organic I just follow their guidelines...do I need to do extra? I got my tomatoes in late so don't have hopes for a great crop, I already have green tomatoes but they aren't as far along as I'd like. Real life gets in the way so not much I can do but try and roll with it. I didn't get the cukes in and I know I'll miss those as well as okra (i've about finished off the pickled okra I did early spring and I want MORE!)

No pictures as of yet, when he cleans the place up a bit I'll take some.

John I have that book also but I used this as a guideline this year. It's an article from the HC I'll plant the radishes now and then the carrot/parsnip/fennel in two weeks

http://www.chron.com/life/gardening/article/Fall-vegetable-planting-guide-1739918.php


Fall vegetable planting guide
By Kathy Huber | Friday, August 14, 2009

Fall's milder temperatures bring out the best flavors in home vegetable gardens. Insects and disease are less bothersome. And we can grow warm- and cool-season crops.

Warm-season vegetables are frost-susceptible types such as beans, cucumbers and summer squash that can't take cold. They should go into your garden soon, joining newly planted tomatoes.

Frost-tolerant crops that need cooler conditions include beets, broccoli, cabbage, carrots, kohlrabi, lettuce, radishes, spinach and turnips.

• Plant crops where they will receive at least six hours of direct sun daily. Root crops (such as turnips) and leafy vegetables (like lettuce) tolerate some shade, but fruiting types (such as tomatoes and squash) need sun. A south or southeastern exposure is best, and when possible, plant rows or raised beds east-west. A garden that catches the early morning sun will dry more quickly, reducing the chance that harmful fungi or bacteria will develop.

• Good air circulation and easy access to a water source are important.

• Success lies in an organically enriched, loose and well-draining soil.

• Mulch to conserve soil moisture, moderate soil temperatures and discourage weeds.

Beans, bush, seed: September

Beets, seed: September-mid-October

Broccoli, transplant: September-January

Brussels sprouts, transplant: September-January

Cabbage, seed: August-November

Cabbage, transplant: September-November

Carrots, seed: mid-October-November

Cauliflower, transplant: September-January

Collards, seed: September-December 1

Collards, transplant: September-January

Cucumber, seed: August

Garlic, clove: late-September-mid-November

Kohlrabi, transplant: mid-September-November

Lettuce, leaf, seed and transplant: late-September-December

Mustard, seed: September-November

Mustard, transplant: September-January

Onion, transplant: mid-October-November, January

Peas, snap, seed: late-September-October/January-early February

Potatoes, Irish, seed potatoes: mid-August-mid-September

Radish, seed: September-November

Spinach, seed/transplant: October-November

Squash, summer, transplant - early September

Tomatoes, transplant: mid-July-mid-August

Turnips, seed: September-November, January-February

Araness,
I'm not organic either!

That planting schedule looks to be about spot on.

That enriched, loose soil recommendation works for everything EXCEPT Brussels Sprouts. I had a whole crop of "blown" sprouts that wouldn't stay tight. The research I did said my soil was TOO lose. BS likes to grow in relatively generic soil that is hard as CONCRETE.

I have had great, great success growing cabbages, broccoli and cauliflower in bright light . They only got about 2-4 hours of almost direct sunlight daily. It's all I had access to, and I made it work!

I've been told the root crops, onions, & the garlic need more direct sunlight, so I've made arrangements to have the sun shine where I need it for my first root crops in raised beds.

Let the Hunger games begin! ^^_^^

lol don't think the BS are gonna make it since I direct sowed and didn't transplant...but ya know my butt was already crawlin around planting the seeds and I figured "What the heck". As you saw most of my backyard gets sun for 80% of the day so I think everyone should be ok. I want to find some garlic to toss in the raised bed, last time I tried it in a small pot and it didn't work out so I thought I'd see if SWF or the organic plant place here in Pearland had any to plant. I've never seen it at a DIY store.

My main focus is always the tomatoes but I'd love to taste beets & turnips. Since I've started on the canning and dehydration kick I don't have to worry so much about the excess so I planted way more spinach & greens that I'd knew we'd eat.

Didn't get my peas or my lettuce planted and we're getting rain. That would've been awesome for my seeds. Oh well....

We're getting rain too...I just had the soil put in for my two new raised beds on Tuesday and was looking forward to working in the garden this weekend. Then the weather guy said that we should expect rain this weekend and of course this was the time he was right. It was really nice during the work week mind you, lol. I'm still going out there though!!!! @$@% rain!!!! I don't really have a choice :) Well, I could wait till tomorrow...

I got my collards and chard seedlings set in before the rain, and brought in some seedling starter mix for the kiddos and I to play around with while it's nasty out.

Someone mentioned Lady Cream Peas...wonder where I could get some of these to get started, does anyone know? The pigeon peas, scarlet runners, etc are all going like gangbusters for a few weeks now. :)

In addition to Nola's question...

I bought some 6" broccoli transplants recently, and I got two - three plants per 4" nursery pot. I separated two plants just now and their respective root systems seemed to be quite intertwined. I'm wondering...was that wise to do? Will the plants be too traumatized now or are they more resilient than I am giving them credit for? I planted them nonetheless so time will tell, but I thought I'd ask to get some other thoughts or experiences.

I know nothing about this site or their seeds, but I found the Lady Cream peas here: http://www.heirloomseedswap.com/item/271

Reimer Seeds also sells them: http://www.reimerseeds.com/lady-cowpeas.aspx

Thanks, stephanietx! Rainy day internet window-shopping on plant sites has been fun! Annie's is doing a 25% off sale til' tomorrow, and Garden Harvest has some good stuff, as does Almost Eden's sale.

John,
I ripped apart about 25-30 broccoli seedlings for potting up a few weeks ago. They looked like death hanging over the sides of the drinking water bottles after, but you should see em today. Didn't lose a single one. Just keep em off to the side in some shade to let them recover before you put em out in full sun.

They should be fine.

Linda

This message was edited Oct 10, 2012 3:34 PM

This message was edited Oct 10, 2012 3:35 PM

My broccoli plants have loved the rain we've gotten over the past couple of days. We're supposed to have more fall-like weather this week, so I hope they flourish!

My rain-soaked cowpea harvest today. I got out earlier and harvested and took pics. Good thing since it's raining again!

Steph!
Yah caught up! How far apart did you set your Broccs?

I thinned them mostly to about 1' apart. Some are closer and where there were 2 and both were struggling, I left them and will move one of them.

Gymgirl, thanks for the encouragement (Sept 18). I've been busy out in the backyard, just have been terrible about getting back to the site to report in.

Anyway, my tomatoes are going like crazy, I think I could sit there and watch them grow on the day after a rain. Crazy. So I'm really pleased with those and they are set up in my RBs that have hoops over them, so I should be able to baby them to a harvest, even if we get some cold weather before I'd like.

Broccoli are total wimps. I think my seedlings got too hot and stressed. But I'll just start some more, and a couple hardy ones have held on and may catch up. Ditto cauls -- replanted seeds yesterday.

Beans are going well, a couple of cukes are starting to climb. I have just 2 or 3 squash planted going great too -- I did not try to do any SVB prevention, hoping that the late season would have taken care of most of that problem. I may be sorry later.

I put some icicle radish and carrot seed in with the tomatoes -- will probably be all right with the radishes, as they should be ready before they get shaded out. Probably a mistake with the carrots, but I planted a few of those elsewhere as well.

In my 2 RBs that get a little bit less sun, I planted lettuce, romaine, spinach and beets (1/2 my beets, will plant the other half next week). The leaves are coming off the tree overhead, so those beds should move from dappled to pretty much full sun before long.

I've still got more than half the cinder block holes to plant -- have a bunch of basil seedlings that could go in there, and there's already some rosemary and oregano thriving there, but am at a little bit of a loss as to what else to plant there. I need to go review what I put in there last year and what worked and what didn't. I do remember having a lot of garlic -- it grew fine but didn't get very big and I'm thinking the season's wrong for it right now.

Planted bok choi in my hanging baskets around chrysanthemum. They did well there last year.

Threw down sunflower in an unused corner of the yard. They attracted nasty bugs last year, and apparently sunflowers are not good to plant around anything else, but they are so pretty, I figure I'll just toss them out on the far side and see what happens. Maybe it will keep some of the bugs away from my veggie garden.

Hey, Guys!
Well, RB #3 is FINALLY finished (late yesterday evening). I went dumpster diving at lunchtime today, and scored some really, really thick cardboard sheets to put down on the grass before we set and fill the bed this evening.

My broccs, caulis, cabbages, and Chinese Cabbages still under lights inside are averaging 7-8" tall in the drinking water bottles. There's about 5-6" of root ball down in the bottles. Everything is rotating out today!

I've been making flow charts for where and how much to plant, and this is never gonna work for me! I'm just gonna have to put it all SOMEWHERE, and observe what it does, or else I'll think them all into shriveled up remnants of seedlings!

So, once RB #3 is set this evening, I'm gonna start filling up empty RB #2 with the caulis and broccs. At 1/sqft, I'm hoping to get at least 14 of each in my 4x8' RB. The charts say I can grow 32, but, I don't buy 1/sq. ft, cause those broad leaves start to crowd each other out. Especially, the Arcadia broccs. The leaf spread is impressive, and beautiful.

Question: I filled RB #2 with a layer of coffee grinds and shredder paper on the bottom, pine bark fines, vermiculite, sharp sand and old MG potting mix above that on the bottom half, and a layer of garden soil and composted manure above that, with about 4" to spare. The broccs and caulis are heavy feeders, and I have bags of cotton burr compost left.

If I spread a 4" layer of the cotton burr compost now, can I go ahead and plant the seedlings immediately into that? It's well aged already, and shouldn't burn anything.

Lemme hear from ya'll. Thanks!

Linda

Wow, even during the week you are doing major gardening stuff (like filling RBs with soil)! I hear what you are saying about spacing brassicas in the sq/ ft method. But, I am going to stick to the "1 per sq/ ft" guideline and just prune (harvest) the leaves a bit here and there if things get too tight. I can always cook the leaves as well so it will all work out. I am not familiar with Arcadia broccoli though.

It's been two years since I did a fall crop of brassicas using the square foot method and if I recall, it was the cabbages that got *humungous* and became space hogs. We'll see this year, I'm gonna pack 'em in...

Hey, John,
My mind is always thinking about growing stuff, even when I'm working on work work!

The nature of the brassicas is they really are HUNGRY HIPPOS, and WATER HOGS, so some of that spacing issue (for me) has to do with keeping them fed and watered enough. I'm trying to build the richest organic soil I can beforehand, but I've learned from experience, that about halfway through the growing season, I'll probably end up dumping more bags of composted manure over the whole bed.

Please tell me about the irrigation system you mentioned. I still need to put mine in place before I put a single plant in those beds!!!! Else, I'll be outside all bundled up trying to keep em watered in the middle of winter!!!

Linda

The Drip Store has some good kits that I like. I did a quick search online and it turns out that this company is also rated in the DG vendor files and they have a good rep. Fast shipping and good customer service. Anyway, this is where I'm leaning. They have this one kit that includes some micro-sprinklers which will help me out with my beds in the front yard. I don't want to go another season without a drip system!!! The only other thing I'll need is a timer...

http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation_categories/33/drip_irrigation_parts/479

I think I'll get the timer from Amazon. The timers at the Drip Store didn't seem that good and there was not much of a selection. The battery-operated units were not weather proof and were very prone to water leakage into the battery compartment, causing corrosion and failure according to some reviews I'd read. That said, I find it hard to believe that water does not inevitably work its way around no matter what.

Weekend progress report!

RB #3 is FINISHED, in place, and half planted as of yesterday evening!

Pic #1 Seventeen Cauliflowers set in 1/2 of the 3.5' x 10' bed.
Pic #2 Next batch of seedlings hardening off.

We FINALLY got a cool snap last night, so timing was perfect on the plant out! Got down to 55°. Will be in that range all this week, so the hardening off will go nice and smooth, with no swooning cole crop plants (prayerfully)!

Linda

This message was edited Oct 8, 2012 10:40 AM

Your RB's look nice, & sturdy. Bonus points for the decorative pumpkins!

That's a lot of cauliflower, do you end up freezing some of it? I should stop goofing around and start planting MORE!!!

Over the weekend, I planted 4 brussel sprouts, 3 chinese cabbages and 3 Joi Choy plants. My supplier at the local FM didn't have any cauliflower so I'll check with her next weekend. I did manage to score some bunching onions, which I will mix in the RB's here and there to maximize space. Maybe even some carrots too, right?

The very cool weather has been tough on me, but my cabbage is taking off and the peas have been oh-so-sweet.

John,
Thanks for the bonus points! The pumpkins on the soil fill in the spots the neighborhood cat might consider for his business!

I've been thinking about sinking the pvc pipe sleeves into the ground on both long sides of the bed, and constructing a shorter hoop (~3'), so I can drape the floating row cover over it to keep the moths from laying eggs on the caulis and broccs for awhile. I think the cool snap is gives me a short window, but soon as it warms up again next week, they'll be flitting around again.

My regular hoop stands about 4.5' tall.

I planted those caulis on 12" centers (regular spacing is on 18"), but I didn't wanna devote that much real estate. Even so, I keep looking at the space between them, and considered sprinkling some carrot or beet seeds there. Just enough to fill in, and not so much I'd end up having to thin ridiculously (I hate wasting seeds!!!!)

One issue I ran into as I was planting, though. The bed was set in place right on top of the grass. I put down a layer of excelsior and coffee grinds, then a thick (3 sheet) layer of heavy cardboard, all wet down, then filled the remainder of the bed with a garden soil composted manure blend. Actually, my handiman helper did the layering.

What he didn't do was to pull the packing tape off the cardboard!!! I hit it several times as I dug holes to set the cauliflowers. I had to chop it open so the plant roots could break through to the soil below.

Don't think I'm gonna be able to plant any carrots in this bed! The beets will be fine...

Linda

Other than carrots, parsnip, leeks and fennel I'm all in.

I've added (to my original list) bubbles Brussel Sprouts, Red Cabbage, Georgia Collards and ahem...I can't remember. I had some seedling casualties due to spousal seedling abuse (he full force hosed the poor babies!)

Lettuce
Cabbage (green & red and something GG gave me that is like bok choy)
spinach
collards
mustard
turnips
beets
broccoli
brussel sprouts
beans (bush)
Tomatoes (we have tomatoes but not going to be a huge hall)

Saint,
Where's the pictorial update???!!

In the ground from strong seedlings (knock wood) this morning:

Georgia collards, a second set, since my FIL likes them so
Strawberries
Nasturtium
A few sad-looking gardenias I picked up for $1
Radishes (more than I can count)
Pickle cukes that got from my gran

A lot of these are rescues from my in-laws, I put in a bunch of seeds while we were evac'ed there for Isaac, and I wasn't sure any of them would grow. I'm still not! But they're all healthy so far, and the weather has been dreamy. Sunny, warm, just a bit breezy. I think being right next to the bayou makes it hotter here!

Into the seed tray with some delicious-smelling salvia seeds from another family member. Not a clue what they could be, though I have my suspicions, so I'm naming them "Free Bird". ;)

So far, the first set of collards I put in a few weeks back have quadrupled in size, the rainbow chard is trying to fight the snails quite valiantly, and the best treat has been my bay leaf tree, which is scrawny and leaning oddly, but put out seven new leaves since 2 weeks ago.

Scarlet runners are running up the cast-iron balcony from a container, they've made it through since a few weeks before the storm. Their leaves are rather pale, but vigorous. Grow, babies, grow!

And watercress that I knocked into the rosemary pot by accident (them seeds are weensy!) are putting out new leaves almost as fast as I can eat 'em.

Now the choice is: repot a 2-year-old avocado for a houseplant, or make my landlord nuts by sticking it in the ground? It will likely never fruit (grew it from a pit) but the leaves sure are pretty. Since it's been on "vacation" outside while we unpacked, it's suddenly four feet tall. This after the puppy gnawed it to the nub in April.

LOL, NOLA!

Great report!

Tomorrow is my day! I have a gazillion plants that have been hardening off, and, when I checked on them last night, I tell you, they look like they're growing on steroids!!!

Here's my weekend plan:

►The cauliflowers I transplanted Sunday have taken to RB #3, and they look happy there. I'm thinking I'll mix it up a bit, and not plant a whole bed of caulis in one place. Instead, I'll put broccoli in the northern half of the bed since they grow taller, and plant RB #2 half-and-half as well. It'll make for a nice comparison on the light needs as well as the planting medium which is a bit different in each bed.

►Sprinkle beet, carrot, and turnip seeds on RB #1
►Build the small bed for the garlic/onions
►Seed the EBs with mustards and collards, and lettuce and spinach
►Throw some sugar snap seeds out
►Decide what can go into the deep, 25 gallon molasses tubs...maybe the excess caulis and broccs, or do the carrots in those...

And, I see that I've already run out of room for all those cabbages...shoot!

Linda

Sure easy to run out of room, alright. Great plan, Linda!

Thanks, Solace!

I feel like a caveman who discovered fire!

It wasn't on the schedule, but I ended up playing with the compost bins and harvested enough finished leaf mold, grass, and food scraps to fill one 25 gallon cattle molasses tub, and one five gallon bucket full!

Now. How do I use it?

I'm thinking to mix it into the garlic and onion bed with the MG garden soil and some composted manure. Yes? No?

On break for a few minutes. Building a compost bin in the greenhouse. I think I'll survive it, but don't know how...

Layers of sandy soil, chicken manure/wood shavings mix, and fallen leaves. Added some Epsom Salts, molasses, and Vitamin B complex for good measure (yeah...I know they say it doesn't make any difference, but it sure did on the outside bed, so. So does aspirin water when transplanting.) Then wetting the pile down... It's a chore, but it's like gold when the compost is ready to use, isn't it? Have more layers to go and need higher sides to hold it in. Ran out of blocks and manure. May have to go fight some roosters for more. Aargh.

Well,
I've been diagnosed with Acid Reflux, which is why I've felt so crappy lately, and particularly over this past weekend. Stayed home yesterday, and the most I did was walk out into the garden and stand and look around -- an indicator that I was, most DEFINITELY, sick!

Saturday, I used every ounce of energy and will power I had to fill in the north half of RB #3 with broccoli, and start filling in RB #2. To my extreme horror, I have exactly THREE Arcadia Broccoli plants for myself. Don't know what happened in the distribution, but I managed to keep a gazillion Green Magic Broccoli plants (totally unfamiliar to me, but recommended by a market grower).

So, RB #2 is half filled with the GM broccoli and the remaining cauliflowers on the west end, and three lone cabbages (so far) on the east end. I'm gonna have to reseed some Arcadias and more cabbages.

I have a bunch of Soloist (a beautiful Napa type) cabbages hardening off, and may put them into one of the EBs. They're a cut-and-come again type, and will keep growing till the worms move in or they bolt. They also don't need the depth of a raised bed.

Didn't do another thing past Saturday, except hold the hose on Sunday. No building, no planting, no seeding. Nothing. Nada. Nunca. Niet.

Shoot....

Oh. On the way from the doctor, I stopped at Whole Foods Market and bought 12 garlic cloves for the raised bed I haven't built yet. They're in the fridge until I do.

Linda

Linda, I have had acid reflux (GERD) for years, along with a hiatal hernia. It is very important to get it under control- the possibility of esophageal cancer is there if you develop lesions and don't get them healed.I used to take Prilosec until it was made over the counter, then changed to Nexium. I have to take 2 every day. Be sure to do what you are told by your doctor! With the medication I can eat pretty much what I want. I also chew 2 Tums at bedtime- and I had to get an adjustable bed, which I love- $3,000, but a necessity. I couldn't ever sleep flat at night anymore. Good luck! Hugs-Jo