STARTING OUR 2012 FALL/WINTER VEGGIE GARDENS

Although it seems a bit premature, if you haven't perused (or started) the seed catalogs, placed your orders, ripped the dying, raggedy plants out, started topping off your ferts and sprays, started collecting more compost and amendments, turned, tilled and toiled, you are BURNING daylight on the fall/winter VEGGIE growing season!

Whew!

Seems like we just planted tomatoes, and already it's time to start seedlings for MORE tomatoes for a possible fall/wtr garden, and decide what else we're planting for the fall crop. We're making our gardening lists and checking them twice! So, jump on board here, and let's get started on the NEXT go-round.

Start with the veggie variety lists you're planning for the fall/winter gardens!

Let the games begin (again!!!)

This message was edited Jul 9, 2012 9:01 AM

Well I ordered seed potatoes (finally found some for the fall!) but it's too soon to start much of anything here. I direct seed anyway; I don't find starting transplants to get me where I am going any faster and it's a lot of work.

I plan on the usual, though: peas, radishes, cabbage, carrots, spinach, turnips and my new favorite veggie, kohlrabi. No need to buy seed; I have plenty. :D

Got most of the seeds already but have heard of some better BS seeds, so that's the only one I need to get. What would be a good fall crop suggestion for Brussels Spouts and a Cabbage to grow this fall??

The rest of the list:

Early Snowball A Cauliflower
Major Hybrid Broccoli
Black Beauty Eggplant
Waltham Butternut Squash
San Marzano Tomato

Iffy on the list is Catskill Brussels Sprouts. Heard some negative comments so will investigate further before go through planting it. I've already found different seeds, but want more info on them... Long Island Improved BS, Nautic BS, Jade Cross BS are just a few I've looked at.... LI is at the top of the list right now... Thoughts.....

Say it's not so!!

Gymgirl; Well is it allright if I watch(more like read) along,If I promise not to get in the way?

Juhur7 et al,

This thread is intended to be an open discussion for ALL veggie growers starting fall/winter gardens. Please accept my apology for the exclusion of your zone. Not my intention to exclude anyone.

With that, I'm having admins rename the thread, so all will know they are welcome in this discussion, wherever they're growing!

Linda

Note the name change!

Let the growing begin!

I thought about planting some watermelon seeds today, but that's as far as I got.

LOL! You'll never get me to admit how much I think about doing....

I received my fall seed order yesterday! First time ordering from the Sustainable Seed Company. I actually was looking for Tatume Squash seeds, and found them on this site, so I just hung around and placed my order. So far, this is some of what I hope to grow in the fall/wtr season:

From The Sustainable Seeds Company
Tatume Squash
Early Jersey Wakefield Cabbage
Early Round Dutch Cabbage
Brunswick Cabbage
Early Wonder Beets
Detroit Dark Red Beets
Snowball Y Improved Cauliflower
Texas 1015Y Onion Seeds
Red Creole Onion Seeds
Little Marvel Peas
Wando Peas

From Johnny's Select Seeds Company
Waltham Butternut Squash
Acorn Squash
Arcadia Broccoli
Green Magic Broccoli
De Cicco Broccoli
Cassius Broccoli
Fava Beans
Space Spinach
Da Cheong Chae-Mini Asian Pac Choi


In addition to the above, I'll be growing turnips, carrots, lettuce, mustard & collard greens, and trying for a fall crop of tomatoes from rooted cuttings.

The games have begun! ^^_^^

This message was edited Jun 7, 2012 9:54 AM

I plan to grow English peas this fall. Will start them in wallpaper trays and keep them covered until they reach a good size, and then slip them under the trellis netting. Hopefully this will give them enough of a head start to grow faster then the birds can eat the leaves!

Broccoli does well here during the winter, so I'm adding cauliflower, kohlrabi, and beets to the winter garden.

I had to laugh - I wonder how many of us do the same thing. I've found that "one special variety" I wanted to grow, then ended up ordering 20 times as much just because I didn't want to pay more for shipping than I paid for that one packet of seeds.

-Rich

Out of curiosity (and assuming you are starting some of your seeds in trays or peat pots), when do you start your onion and cole crop seeds?

-Rich

Bee,
Please lmk when you sow your English peas! I've been trying to get the timing right for peas. Stephanietx has brought in a beautiful harvest of Wando and Alaska peas this past spring, so I think I have that planting timeframe down. But, it's the fall/wtr sowing that eludes me!

Hugs!

Linda

P.S. I am SOOOOOOOOOOO excited about the upcoming season, especially since I have at least one RB in place, and possibly THREE by plant out.

Question for the growers regarding filling my RBs for the fall planting. A lot of gardeners fill their RB very early and let them sit for awhile before planting in them. I won't have that luxury, since by the time the beds are built and filled, it'll be time to plant out the seedlings I start outdoors (or time to plant the ones that I start outdoors in seed flats...).

Any tips on what to safely add to the RBs so they'll be filled in a hurry and not hurt the seedlings would be much appreciated. To date, the one RB is filled with Tapla's RB mix:
5 parts pine bark fines
2 parts Vermiculite
2 part sharp, builder's sand
1 part Reed/Sedge Peat

It is fast-draining, loose, holds moisture pretty well, and is well-aerated. I didn't wait too long to plant the tomatoes in the mix (about 3-4 weeks after filling?), and they did fine. I guess if I put the press on and build the next RBs, I'd have about that same time frame or longer before I have to plant the seedlings that I intend to start at the end of this month, and again at the beginning of August.

My concern is that the Brassicas love the organic amendments. In the past, I've used Black Kow Composted manure. Just wondering if I need to let it sit awhile before introducing the seedlings.

LMK!

Thanks!

Linda

Rich,
I've never done the onions from seeds before, but the BayouGardener has a WONDERFUL tutorial on how he did it. I was a long process, but successful! He started the seeds in a water trough about 3-4 months before it was time to transplant for the fall.

Our recommended transplant dates for onion plants is November. So, I figure I have time to start the seeds by the end of this month, and they'll be ready for transplanting by the end of November. Last year, I transplanted Dixondale Onion Company plants on January 8th (my b'day). I counted six months, and they were just about ready for harvesting. I actually left them in until the end of August, then brought them into our Hot as Hades garage for storage. I had no other choice. Well, those full-size onions lasted from August 2011 until almost January 2012.

This year, I planted onion plants waaaaaaaaaaay late, and they're a miserable crop failure.

So, nothing beats a wish but a try, and the BayouGardener was straightforward enough in the details, and made it look really easy.

Last fall/wtr. I started ALL my brassica seeds indoors on my light kit, on the weekend of August 6-7th, and a few more on the weekend of August 19-20th. I had a bumper crop of cabbage, broccoli (Gorgeous!!!), and a few cauliflowers. My Brussels Sprouts were planted in the wrong soil (they need soil as hard as concrete, and my container mix was too loose, so all I got were "blown" sprouts - you can Google that...)

This message was edited Jun 7, 2012 1:14 PM

Gymgirl,

When I did the mix for the aeration containers for the okra, made addition to a little leftover mix I had. Added Black Kow Composted Manure, some Garden Soil & Vermiculite along with CRF. Transplanted the okra right in, when I watered the runoff was coffee colored and caught it with a 5 gallon bucket, added some more water & used the water can to water again. They've grown about 2" this week alone...

With my PUNY list I saw yours and had to make some additions:

Texas 1015 Onion Seeds
Red Creole Onion Seeds
Red Burgundy Onion Seeds
Long Island Improved Brussels Sprouts
Royal Marvel Hybrid Brussels Sprouts

I think I'm gonna pass on cabbage this fall, just too much else to prepare for with the list I've got now...

Linda/Honeybee = Last year I directed seeded peas 8/10, germinated 8/20, bloomed 10/1 and first harvest was 10/9. I don't think I could have started any sooner -- too hot -- but I didn't harvest many before it got too cold for them to bloom.

NicoleC,
That is some GOOD INFORMATION you just posted. The timeframes really help! We don't get as cold as you do (at least not for sustained periods of time...), and not freezing until around mid-December.

I guess the trick is timing in a short growing window, starting them out when the weather's not too scorching hot, and goosing them along as fast as possible before the temps drop into the what? low-60s? high 50s?

What's the coolest temp they'll continue producing in?

I'm growing Ky Wonder Pole Beans in my buckets that are sitting under the patio cover. They're cranking out consistently (albeit, slower than if they were sitting out in full sun). I'm thinking I could start the peas under the patio cover, too, same timeframe as NicoleC, and grow them from mid-August thru mid-November, maybe?

I'l Google lowest growing temps.

NicoleC, which variety did you grow? I have Wando and Alaska peas on the way (copying you, Steph!)

Where in the world IS Stephanietx?

Linda

Oh goody! I want to play along with this thread. Usually I just do the usual spring garden but this year am planning a fall garden. I have my spring peas growing but plan on a fall crop of peas and more also. I have never tried a fall crop of any thing before but have already gotten all my seeds.

I plan to grow-
Peas-
Cascadia Snap Pea (new for me, never tried this variety)
Mammoth Melting Snow Pea
Sugar Star Snap (never tried these either)
Super Sugar Snap
Norli (again new for me variety) French variety!
Green Arrow (I am growing these this spring and like them)
Seems that I bought Mammoth Melting peas from two companies so I don't think I will plant them all but maybe I will!

Brocolli-
Rapa Brocolli from Gourmet Seeds
Purple Sprounting from Burpee

I have Nevada and Little Ceasar Lettuce. Also Zen Hybred greens from Burpee.

Plus I have bunching onion seeds. I never got to planting them for spring so I wondser if I can plant them as a fall crop?

I'm contemplating what to do in the rain today. :)

Rain is good for the garden!

I sure did order a lot of pea seeds lol! :-))

LOL!

We're still waiting on rain that's been promised for the last 3 days...probably have a gully washer Saturday morning...

Linda - the only peas that produced for me that quickly last fall were the Sugar Sprint. However this spring, the OP heirloom Amish Snap came in slightly faster and was a better pea overall, so I'll be trying the Amish Snap this fall as well. Last fall mine produced right up until frosty weather. Light frost didn't kill the plants, but it stopped them from blooming and burnt the ones on the vine a bit.

BTW, a couple of years ago I started keeping index cards with each variety, species, source, etc. and all the critical dates as well as general notes -- and whether I'd grow them again or not. The card has a standardized format in a box with alphabetical dividers and sort them by name, year and growing season. Up front I keep what's out there now so I can quickly find them to make notes.

I still keep my rotation maps with some notes, but the index cards have proved to be an awesome tool, way better than my earlier incarnations with notebooks and such. It has really helped me as a go-to source when people ask about a particular variety, I'm surfing a seed catalog or I just can't remember (which happens often!) And it's easy to keep updated. If anyone is looking for a way to get organized, or just a new way, I can really recommend this method.

NicoleC,
I'd be very interested in your veggie cataloging system, either here or in a private dmail. Don't know how much the others might mind this little side-trip, but it might be beneficial to others.

Ya'll please weigh in if you'd like NicoleC to share her system here. If not, there's another thread that's currently discussing "how you organize your seeds". We could take the discussion there.

LMK!

Linda

I'd be interested since I just started a big spreadsheet for the aspects of my garden adventures. It's getting harder and harder to keep all the different suppliers & seeds and such straight.

That's always been my problem. I have had no trouble at all starting perennial green onions. I always have dozens waiting to be transplanted. The little plants will keep forever in flats patiently waiting for a spot in the garden or one of the self-watering planters as long as I keep them watered and use a little liquid fertilizer when they start to look spent. But when I should be starting the seeds for the short-day bulbing onions that do so well here, the days are still getting into the mid-90's with warm nights. I have a place in the garage/basement for starting seeds, but I do not control the temperature so it is nearly as hot as outside (hotter at night), and of course fluorescent light is never as good as sunlight.

I have the same issue with the Brassicas, but they at least don't need such a long lead time.

-Rich


This message was edited Jun 8, 2012 12:30 AM

Tell that to my tomatoes - I finally had to break down and spray for late blight that started appearing after the tropical storm that came through brought three days of rain. And now it's raining again... No, I'm not really complaining - just wish the timing was better.

-Rich


This message was edited Jun 8, 2012 12:32 AM

I'm confused. If they do so well there, what's the problem with going ahead and starting the seeds? As long as the seedlings are growing into the cool weather, starting them when it's still a bit warm shouldn't be a problem. If it is, see further...

A (not-so?) novel idea that's being thrown around on several threads lately is to start the seeds in the refrigerator!. If they need cool to germinate, then, "by golly," give 'em some cool. I could dedicate a shelf to a flat of onion seeds. Matter of fact, that might actually be the answer, for real, now that I'm brainstorming this!

If we started some seeds in the fridge, say, 12 weeks before our temps start to begin to dip into the 60's, they'd be the perfect size for transplanting directly into the garden, and they'd not miss too many beats adjusting to a slightly warmer temp outside. It would only last awhile anyways, and continue to dip back to where they were growing.

DEFINITE experiment coming up!!!!

THANKS Rich!

I feel another experiment coming on...

Check out a YouTube video called "How to Plant Onion Seeds in a Container"
by The Bayou Gardener.

He started his onion seeds in an aluminum trough, 8" deep, 1 foot wide, and 6' long, then transplanted them into the garden. The tutorial is fascinating!

STARTING ONIONS FROM SEED
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=how%20to%20plant%20onion%20seeds%20in%20a%20container%20by%20the%20bayou%20gardener&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DY7sXbzozjTs&ei=FBfST-rKL8XY2QWF8_2ZDw&usg=AFQjCNEaC3g9UO7HHzMF4JIzIOHcq6OgkQ

ONION UPDATE
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=onion%20update%20by%20the%20bayou%20gardener&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CGUQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fthebayougardener.com%2Fsmf%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D12776.0&ei=9BbST5fdB4Pg2QX7mcCLDw&usg=AFQjCNHvK6dI6-xhXV5cbZ3dKxVzz0pmdw



Lemme know what ya'll think about this idea.

Linda



This message was edited Jun 8, 2012 10:16 AM

Thanks for the links. I haven't had much time for web browsing (or rather, I already spend too much time...). I've had excellent results with bought-in plants. Dixondale's Red Creole matured like regular store-bought yellow onions, mostly medium-sized with tight, dry scapes (no giants, but they keep better than the larger, sweeter types). From Just Fruits and Exotics I got Texas Supersweet (yellow), Contessa (white), and Southern Belle (red), all large sweet "typical" short-day types. I was surprised at the difference in the plants I received - the ones from Just Fruits were easily twice the size of the Dixondale plants and took off with no hesitation. I've read that larger starts tended to bolt, but that didn't happen. The only problem was that the Contessa are a lot later to mature than the others - over half of them are still in the garden now waiting for the tops to start dieing back or breaking over, a couple of weeks after the last of the red and yellow onions have been moved to the drying racks in the "carport" (my outdoor workshop).

I've had good luck with the purchased transplants, and I don't mind the cost of the quality plants I got from both supplier, but I don't like the feeling of being dependent on them and on their shipping schedule. The problem with starting seed here is that it is still usually REALLY hot around the time to plant - trays outdoors in the sun dry out in a hurry, and my protected seed-starting areas are very limited. And like everyone, I suppose, I hate spending considerable time and money (and TLC) on something without a good chance of success.

-Rich

Stephanie-why don't you plant your watermelon seeds you still have time? I don't start my pumpkins until August for harvest for Holloween. I usually don't start anything for my cool weather garden/market plants until the beginning of August or later. I guess I consider my fall garden warm weather plants, like the second round of tomatoes and such.

My warm weather plants are no where near ready to pull out, they are just starting to really get going. We've only had 1week in the 90s (which is enough for me) but there's no way I'd give up that space NOW. My long beans are just starting to set.

I'm still planting tomato plants maybe I can count these for my fall garden lol. If the weather stays like this Ill have veggies all summer long!

BTW I don't see any zone limits on this thread. I'm assuming all zones are welcome and nobody is in the way.

This message was edited Jun 8, 2012 2:49 PM

Zone 5 (average first frost date October 12 - historic data from September 11 to November 7)
Going to start cabbage, broccoli, chard and kohlrabi plants for the fall garden this weekend. Where the lettuce, spinach, and radishes were will have a late crop of bush beans mid-June. Will plant cucumbers before July 4. Later will start fall lettuce and spinach.
On onions...
This is the second year I've started onions from seed. Long day varieties (Copra and Redwing) I start in January. Found two Copra onions in my refrigerator from last year's crop, still tight, no sprouting. Last year when I planted them out in the garden, the birds pulled up a quarter of the plants the first day, and continued for over a week. This year, not a one was disturbed. Also second year for Ambition shallots (oh man I love them).

I'm working with the Houston Urban Garden Planting Guide, and it lists 7/1-8/1 as the OPTIMUM seed starting window for watermelons AND pumpkins.

Reply to Juhur7 posted on June 5, 2012
08:53 PM

Juhur7 et al,

This thread is intended to be an open discussion for ALL veggie growers starting fall/winter gardens. Please accept my apology for the exclusion of your zone. Not my intention to exclude anyone.

With that, I'm having admins rename the thread, so all will know they are welcome in this discussion, wherever they're growing!

Linda

Oh, I know I have time, I've just been lazy and trying to avoid going out in the heat. LOL

Really? You are ready to start fall crops now in zone 5? I was think mid July to start my Fall crop seeds. I am still starting my regular season cucumber seeds now!

I was going to reply I didn't expect that to be taken that seriously, I felt about as big as a penny for a few minutes after reading that.
Thank you Gymgirl ; for your kind consideration of others feelings, that was very nice.

I will try to behave in the future and thanks again.

Rita,
Our first frost date is November 11th, and I'm about to start seeds the beginning of next month...

You're doing quite nicely, Juhur7!

Maybe I should start them earlier. But it is usually so hot here in August.

Rita,
I've learned from the gardeners here that, long as the seedlings are properly hydrated, they can take more heat than we think they can take. I'm gonna start some seeds indoors and transplant when the weather cools off. I'm also gonna start some outside in flats, so they'll already be acclimated. Finally, I'm gonna start some seeds in the (wait for it) --------FRIDGE!
Don't cha just love being gardener?

I can't start any inside as I have no lights set up. So I always start my seeds outside. Of course starting them outside shouldn't be a problem.