Fall orders and planting

No frost yet for us - it gets close, say, 34 degrees. This is unheard of. In 90% of the years we have had a plant destructive frost by October 15. My annuals and tender perennial and tomatoes are just fine.

I have lost several speciosum and I think the problem is soil that is too alkaline. I am going to order Uchida next year fromB&D and treat them properly - perhaps in pots.

Oh, fleur guy, thank you regarding Luminaries. I always wondered if that was my fault! And White Henryi you might want to think about. I always ignore it till it blooms. So unfussy I do not worry. Then it takes my breath away.

This message was edited Nov 6, 2011 7:11 PM

They are as tough as they are beautiful and scented.

These came from Old House Gardens in 2001. My Anastasias were bought the same year. Maybe this is why they are in the NALS Hall of Fame!

'White Henryi' looks spectacular and exactly matches the image I have in my mind of what an ideal garden lily should look like: elegant, refined, graceful, understated and yet amazingly beautiful. I planted 3 bulbs last week from TLG so I can't wait to see how they perform in the future. I heard that this one can sometimes take a few years to settle in and show what it is capable of, along with its seedlings 'Leslie Woodriff' and 'Sarabande'. I just noticed that OHG now has them at 25% off with their end-of-season sale.

It is sad to hear that Luminaries might be one of the weaker OT strains, at least in the Midwest/Great Lakes regions. I have read other posts about washed out color in intense summer heat and sunlight. I will keep my fingers crossed that 'Quintessence' will be a good performer. The bulbs I planted of it were not huge but seemed very solid and healthy, just like all my new children from TLG.

What does everyone think of LOs? I am trying two: Triumphator and El Condor, both from B&D. It seems like they were very trendy only 2-3 years ago and now they are much more difficult to find. As far as I know, B&D is the only source I could find. The bulbs of these cultivars they sent were HUGE. El Condor was so large that a couple of the bulbs even had a few walnut-sized bulblets attached.

I only have one LO, Prince Promise, but it has been excellent under very bad conditions. I forgot it was there, and did not take care of it. It is now on its third year. And honestly, it was a gift from a friend, and the source was B&D a couple of years ago. I alerted her that they were having a sale, and they deluged her with extras (what a lovely problem) and she gifted me with it. I never would have bought it, because there are lots of trendy lily types that fail. But this is a winner.

I don't know about the northern regions, but Triumphator does great here in So. Cal., where few lilies thrive. I planted three bulbs in a pot the first year, and they performed well. Last year I put them in the ground and they reached 7' tall! They are also increasing like bunnies. They have a nice scent, and hold their color well for me. I got them from B&D.

Good to hear that 'Triumphator' is a winner. Most reports I have read about it online are glowing. 'Prince Promise' also seems like a winner. How interesting though that a lot of LO hybrids seem to be garden worthy and rapid increasers and now they so hard to find. Is fashion in the lily world really so fickle?

A lot of OT hybrids seem to come and go, too. I have already seen several names of cultivars that were apparently popular only 2-3 years ago that are now nowhere to be seen in commercial catalogues: Montego Bay, the American series, Golden Stargazer, etc.

I suppose I shouldn't complain though. Lily fashion seems to be much more tasteful in general than rose fashion. I understand and echo Donna's dislike of the scentless, plastic-looking 'Knockout' series. What a disservice to the grace and beauty of the rose!

I tried the Knockout's up here in a hedge. They lasted one winter and one summer and all died.

It is interesting, isn't it? The American series and Golden Stargazer were advertised everywhere. I didn't like them. I realize that my tastes are on the cooler side but I wasn't crazy about the combination of red, yellow, and huge.

I had to laugh, Ispahan, at your noting my dislike of Knockouts. I vented at length on another forum about those things. I was pretty outspoken. Word must have spread.

And I agree - no matter how questionable lilies can be, there is no way in which their flaws can come close to what I think is the worst - double Knockouts. Twice the horror LOL! (Donna, don't start!!!)

LOL, Donna! You mentioned your dislike of the Knockouts on this thread already above, which is where I first saw it. There is an Aldi store about half a mile from me that has a horrid mass planting of about 200 original Knockouts planted in front. Not only is the planting naturally hideous, but almost every bush planted there has been severely infected with Rose Rosette disease. I have never seen so much witch's broom in my life!

Golden Stargazer really doesn't intrigue me at all, but I have to say that some of the photos I have seen people posting of mature specimens of the American series do look look very nice. I bet the late Christopher Lloyd would have loved them with their vibrant color combinations and boldness.

Oh, no, there is a thread on which I vent at length! The reference above is nothing compared to it.

Aren't KO's supposed to be wonderful because of their disease resistance? WOW!

I guess I learned, after a bit of trial and error, to stay away from the heavily promoted or new. Except for Anastasia - and of course we are talking about Judith!

Remember when Silk Road came out? It cost a great deal - $14.95 each at Wayside. And I saw it in lots of peoples' garden, and most of them were not lily lovers, so they could have been better placed. But a few years back Wayside couldn't sell them at that price, so they sold them for $12.95 - for THREE. That's when I jumped, because I knew they came from TLG. Then , when I bought some lilies from TLG that fall, Silk Riad was the complimentary bulb. So I got 4 of them for $12.95.

Is it just me, or does Silk Road not branch much? The stems get taller and produce more flowers, but for me they have never produced more stems. I put in four, and many years later I have four stems. Is that odd? Is anyone else experiencing that?

Donna

Funny that you mention that. I noticed from reading through all of these lily posts that a lot of people have had identical experiences to yours with 'Silk Road', saying that every year the stem gets larger with more buds, but it never or only very rarely seems to multiply. I received two bonus bulbs of 'Silk Road' from my TLG orders so I am using them to practice scaling. I thought this would be a great one to practice on since it is not rare and seems to multiply only very slowly on its own. I now have two whole bulbs scaled and tucked away in a warm, dark cupboard for now.

I wonder how big your mother bulbs are now after all these years. They must be honkers!

Kiseta, forgive me for missing your question about lilies in a two gallon pot. You can indeed plant three in one of them, and indeed you will get a bouquet effect - I've grown one to a pot and there is no comparison. You may have to repot them sooner than if you have one to a pot, but repotting the little darlings is easy to do. And it gives you a good chance to refresh the soil. I am going to do just that!

Corey, the mother bulbs are absolutely enormous. I noticed when one pushed itself to the surface. Literally. I looked down at the ground and saw this yellow thing. Since I had buried it several inches down it was quite a shock.

I love growing Silk Road with grasses, to hide the somewhat in your face stem.

Baptisia australis is a champ for hiding the stems, too. In covering it's feet, it also makes the lily stem grow a bit shorter, which is an effect I like.

Thank you Donna, I was preparing my pots today and figured I can plant the bulbs 3 together the first year and next year I can figure it out where I wanted to plant them. Today I also planted my 2 new red Astilbe and put it in front of my 3 Black and blue salvia. Sun in the morning and shade in the afternoon. This is the South, you can hardly plant anything in full sun.Looks like my garden will look totaly different next Spring then this year. I planted this year a lot of new flowers that I got to collect. Agastaches, Coreopsis, Veronicas they are all new.Now the lilies and iris, I will dream about them tonight.

Kiseta,

I'm so glad you could go forward with your plans. The dreaming is half the fun. And better yet, when the sun is too scorching in one spot, you can move your potted lilies. We had a string of days in the high 90's this year, and when I realized that some of the lilies were really going to struggle, I pulled them up in a near bloom state and put them in pots so I could move them and water them. They didn't miss a beat, and it was lovely bringing them in for an evening when I had guests and using them as a centerpiece on my table.

Agastaches are in the same family as salvias, are they not? I love them with lilies. Veronicas too!

Ispahan, I also have Montego Bay, purshased from Costco. It has done well here (not as well as Triumphator but in a different bed). I love the colors, and it does have some scent.

Carol, thank you for the information about Montego Bay. It is always good to hear input from those who actually grow these lilies.

Can anyone tell me more about the fragrance of OT lilies? I know many are *supposed* to be fragrant, but does that mean a faint scent that requires to stick your nose deep in the blossom and use some imagination, or does it mean strong scent that wafts pleasantly around the garden without having to seek it out?

Corey, I only have one LO as you know, and I can't remember how strong the scent was, making me think that it is moderate at best. Not strong like some others I associate with scent. I just looked up an article and it describes the scent as subtle or mild - which is why I don't remember, but sitting here I can remember the scent of all my trumpets - one of their charms. B&B's catalogue describes the scent as mild.

I do love the look of the one LO I have (Prince Promise) and would like to acquire more. TLG had Queen's Promise (it's weird, the two are from the same grouping but the registered name of one has a comma and the other does not) but it is a smaller version of Prince Promise.

Donna

Donna,

I don't remember where I just saw it but somewhere on this forum you posted a photo of lilies growing with what looks like a double Bouncing Bet (Saponaria officinalis). Do you still grow this plant? I have been searching for it forever! I just transplanted a bunch of the single-flowered version into my garden. In spite of its thuggish ways, I love its modest looks, nocturnal habit and sweet fragrance. Please let me know where you got it. I think a company called Flower Scent Gardens offered a version of it several years ago, but I missed that boat long ago since they went out of business. Sigh. I have never seen anyone else offer it.

Shoot. For a minute I thought I had read a 'bouncing betty!" lol. A term for WWII land mines also used by the French in Viet Nam.

I actually ordered the white from Glenn Varner of Flower Scent Gardens in his last year. I have four plants in front of the house we are selling but I actually dug some up for a neat person several years ago. I have potted up a lot of my perennials for movement to the new house but didn't take that.

Tell you what - I'll drive to the house tomorrow and dig some up, if I can, for both of us. There's nothing like it. I controlled it by shoving a spade around it twice a year. And you do have to control it, but it's worth it. I have the white and pink, and the white is just glorious.

I'll see what I can do! It's hard to get out of the ground intact, but I'll try. I seem to have a lot of plants that are out of commerce.

Donna

The pink is nice too, but it's easier to find and harder to control. I mass it in my peony beds.

OMG, Donna, what amazing photos! The white version is gorgeous. Please let me know if you are able to dig any up. How is the fragrance?

The scent is soft and sweet. Absolutely delightful. I'm so glad you brought this up. How could I possible leave this behind? It's a lovely mixer in a border.

First thing tomorrow (cause wow, it's getting cold here!)

This message was edited Nov 11, 2011 5:07 AM

Corey,

You mentioned above your scaling of Silk Road, and that you had scaled two whole bulbs. I have never done this. Would you please tell me about your scaling experiences and techniques? I would love to use it to scale my Prince Promise!

Hi Donna,

Of course I would be happy to talk about my scaling experiences. My bulbs have now been scaled for a little over a week (maybe 8 days total) so I really have nothing to report yet. This is also my first scaling attempt. I first read as much as possible about scaling, both in lily books and on lily forums. I found some great posts by Pardalinum online that detailed some of the steps. I was happy about this since a lot of instructions given in lily books are quite vague at best. Here is what I did:

1. I washed the bulbs as much as I could to get rid of dirt, decayed plant tissue, grit, grime, etc. It is impossible to clean between all the scales at this point, but you just need the bulb to be clean enough so you can see what you are working with.
2. Peel or snap off the scales as close to the base (basal plate) as possible. You will have to slowly pull back the scale and work your thumb in slowly close to the base to prevent the scales from breaking at the midpoint. In spite of what books say, it is nearly impossible to actually include a piece of basal plate on every scale. You just need to be as close as possible. I peeled off scales all the way to the tiny center of the bulb.
3. I rinsed off the scales to get rid of any remaining dirt and grit. I then soaked them for 20 minutes in a 10% household bleach solution (1 part bleach to 9 parts water).
4. Rinse of the scales thoroughly with water and air dry on paper towels for several hours in good air circulation.
5. Place in a ziploc bag with *barely damp* peat moss or vermiculite (I used peat moss since I already had it on hand). Barely damp means it shouldn't actually feel wet, just slightly cool to the touch. You should use enough peat moss/vermiculite so all scales are covered and separated when the bag is shaken gently. I placed about a teaspoon of fungicide powder (Captan) in the bag before I shook it up. This is supposed to prevent a lot of mold/fusarium growth later on.
6. Take out most of the air, seal the bag, place in a warmish dark place (about 65-70 degrees F) and place a weight on top. A book is perfect.
7. Depending on the species or hybrid being scaled, you should see bulblets after four weeks and the whole process should be completed within 8 to 12 weeks. The bulblets are then ready for vernalization, etc.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that this process works for me. Are you interested in any bulblets of 'Silk Road' in the future? :-)

Corey,

What a fascinating process - and what great instructions. And yes, indeed, I would love bulblets of Silk Road. You've done the hard part. You are really a very sophisticated plantsperson. I am very impressed. You have so much to contribute.

I'm thinking of scaling because I only have one Longidragon. It is one of the bulbs that was decimated in the B&D vole invasion. Dianna was kind enough to tell me about it. It was pretty devastating. The lily itself cannot be captured in a picture. It is very dramatic. And it appears to be completely out of commerce.

Donna

Wow, Donna, no one has ever called me a "sophisticated plantsman" before, but I'll take it! :-) My problem is that I am very fond of (and good at) research and plant collecting, but quite weak in the garden design area. When I see the pictures you post of your gardens and beds, it is obvious how much thought you put into your combinations. You definitely have an artistic sensibility that I lack.

I will be happy to share any future 'Silk Road' bulblets with you. Please let me know if you decide to scale your Longidragon so we can compare our results. If you just want to experiment, you can easily take off 3-4 scales from the mother bulb without hurting it or affecting its vigor. I only scaled two entire bulbs because they were bonus bulbs and I had already planted two big clumps of 'Silk Road' in my garden anyway. And I was curious to see the inside structure of a lily bulb with my own eyes. Otherwise I would have only removed 3-4 scales from each bulb.

I think I must scale longidragon, or no one will ever see it again. I think that I will let it safely bloom and then give it a try. Thank you for the lovely compliments. they mean a lot coming from you, yes, you sophisticated person. I grew up in beautiful treed environments but no one actually gardened. They though that gardening is putting in tulips in spring - nice, but not enough. I love Pam Duthie's idea of "Continual Bloom" so I designed my garden for fall, because if your yard is pretty in fall it's pretty all year. I love texture and color, and I like to blend plants together, which is good because while much larger than an urban lot, by suburban standards my yard is quite small. I am fortunate enough to have a ten foot easement, and when I asked whether I could put things on it, they said, certainly - so three President Lincoln lilacs, four hydrangea querquefolia Snowflake, ten peonies, tons of perennials and dozens of bulbs.

I went today and ripped out some quite dormant white saponaria. I'm going to put it in pots. It looked awful, but I have learned that means nothing. Let's see what happens next spring, and when it happens, I'll pass some on to you.. Also took a bunch of Heuchera Firefly and bergenia winterglut I I had grown from seed, and some Anemone x Hybrida Honorine Jobert.

The season of planning and dreaming has begun, but for me it's still the season of transplanting!

Donna

I have a simple question... I just finished planting my lily bulbs in flowerpots, should I keep watering them all Winter when we don't have rain for long time. Or just let the Good Lord take care of them in the Winter??? Thanks for the answer, I am new at lillies. Etelka

Are your bulbs outside? I have some in my garage, and once a month I give them about a tablespoon of water. If they seem very dry (test the pot once a month by digging down in it) a little bit of water won't hurt and may help. I lost bulbs in pots in the garage because they got no water over the winter.

Donna

They are going to stay outside , it never goes under 20 degr. in Augusta, plus I don't have a garage. Thanks. I will be watering the pansies all Winter, I did't know if I should include the lilieas too.

Oh, I wish I lived in a place where it never goes under 20! I have a sister who lives in Savannah. Sometimes I think I've missed the boat.

Ditto!!

But we have nets, waterbugs and fireants. I lived in lots of places, but Augusta is the one more to my liking. No huricans, earthquaake or flooding. Here at my house, the soil is very good, I have earthwors all over the place. Only thing is I live under a 100 year old water oak that is loosing it leaves and it is a mess this time of the year.

Yeah.... could live without the waterbugs and fireants. Or snakes!! I think Oregon or Washington are more my speed. Maybe high country Arizona or Colorado.

I've been to northern California, the Colorado springs area and Seattle. Pretty special places. That's why everyone has beaten us there and prices are so high!!!

I haven't seen a waterbug since I was a child. They are GROSS!!!!!

Never seen one at all that wasn't teeny tiny little water skimmers. Guess that doesn't count. Yeah, the prices are way high although some people here have found places not entirely exorbitant. beeHive found a neat place in the Dells in Oregon. I actually looked there online. Interesting places

They were huge and fat.

The other place that looks cool is North Carolina. I've been to Chapel Hill, Raleigh, Durham, Charlotte and Asheville. LOVED Asheville, and it's a lot cheaper than Chapel Hill, much to my shock.

It's just that I DO NOT livein a "temperate climate". What's temperate about lots of 90 degree days in the summer and below-20 in the winter? One good thing though - everythings dies off. You have less plant disease when the cold renders them at least dormant.