Starting FALL GARDEN 2011 in Zone 8

Gainesville, FL(Zone 8b)

Quote from podster :
Rjodgen ~ I grow a winter multiplier onion in 8a. I recently started a new bed but they are normally in a perennial bed. Left in ground year around. The greens can be eaten throughout the winter and the onions form clumps of bulbs that can be dug in spring. Around May or June the tops die down and the bed lies dormant through the summer heat.


Your multipliers are a different species then. These green onions stay green all summer long, and (with the possible exception of the short period when they try to send up bloom stalks) they are available for fresh use all year round.

-Rich

Gainesville, FL(Zone 8b)

Quote from drthor :
rjogden,
I bought my fava beans here:
http://www.gourmetseed.com/c=LcT4939D0C3Ag6EWOtzXcTzD6/category/gourmet_seed.vegetable_seed.bean___fava/

Great seed company. Watch out the seed packages are always huge.
I have planted:
Fava Bean Extra Precoce Violetto (you can see in the picture, because its trunk is purple)
Fava Bean Delle Cascine


Thanks! I'm familiar with gourmetseed - great company IMHO.

-Rich

Deep East Texas, TX(Zone 8a)

And your green onions are grown from seed?

San Antonio, TX(Zone 8b)

Drthor, thanks for your response on the chard. And yes, I did cover the parsley seed with 1/4" of soil. It's been past 14 days so time for a re-try and this time, I'll just 'throw it.'

Linda, I hadn't heard of using NAPA Floor Dri. Details, please, when you have a few minutes? I've just started some more seedlings too -- chard, cabbage, cauliflower, and will probably do a few more things today. Temps still 100+ where I am, but maybe we are finally hear the end of it. I think it's supposed to be a bit cooler by Thurs.

Gainesville, FL(Zone 8b)

Quote from podster :
And your green onions are grown from seed?


Yes, they were originally started from seed, but now that they are growing they are spreading and aren't showing any signs of stopping or bulbing.

The species of the 2 varieties I'm currently growing is Allium fistulosum. The issue I've run into in the past is that most commercial seed companies that sell seeds or plants of "scallions" or "green onions" don't identify the species. I got my seed from Kitazawa [ http://www.kitazawaseed.com/seeds_bunching_onion.html ]. Territorial Seed [ http://www.territorialseed.com/prod_detail_list/209 ] also identifies their A. fistulosum varieties. Needless to say, onion "sets" aren't A. fistulosum.

-Rich

SE Houston (Hobby), TX(Zone 9a)

LiseP,
Trust me on this one. We'll need to talk in person for me to explain about the free draining container mix I'll be using. Suffice to say, it's saving me $$$ NOT to have to fill 40 buckets with 100% MG Potting Mix...

send me a dmail and we can swap numbers.

Linda

Irving, TX(Zone 8a)

FAVA BEANS growing like missiles !!
They are already almost touching the lights !!

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Irving, TX(Zone 8a)

The second planting of Broccoli is doing much better than my first one.
Definetly they are enjoying the cooler temperature, even if they are indoor. I have the window open in that room.
The plants look taller and bigger leaves.

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Irving, TX(Zone 8a)

KOHLRABI are also germinating really fast

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Irving, TX(Zone 8a)

even LETTUCE is germinating outside.
I am watering morning and night to keep soil moist and voila' !

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Irving, TX(Zone 8a)

and this picture is just beautiful .. after that incredible summer ... finally something nice!

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Liberty Hill, TX(Zone 8a)

Im appreciating your results growing Broccoli at different temps. It confirms what I thought, that its happier in cooler conditions. I "tricked" many of mine to germinate then put them directly in pots outside (105 today) due to lack of space. I have noticed that some of the Swiss Chard I sowed ,after it had germinated, is thriving while some cultivators are stalled and others died. This heat is so extraordinary in temps and duration I wonder if that, in itself, may be an issue. Its supposed to cool down a bit this weekend may sow a few more and see how they compare to those that I grew in the heat.

Gainesville, FL(Zone 8b)

Quote from 1lisac :
I have noticed that some of the Swiss Chard I sowed ,after it had germinated, is thriving while some cultivators are stalled and others died.


Which varieties thrived?

-Rich

SE Houston (Hobby), TX(Zone 9a)

I've had my seedlings out under the patio cover for a week. Didn't think they'd make it -- until I changed the watering schedule. Now, I'm watering early morning and leaving enough water for them in the drip trays. Yesterday was a feeding, and I found they truly perked up and put on new growth.

I'm learning that Feeding my seedlings is a very necessary deal. Case in point. I have a fairly huge cabbage seedling that just went almost entirely pale and all splotchy yellow. The stem and branches got all soft and it just swooned. I thought it was a goner from the heat outside. So, I brought it and a couple other wee babies back inside, and put them back under the fluorescent lights. I FED the large seedling, and overnight it went from death to perfect health. They can take the heat so long as they're hydrated. And, they're getting HUNGRY. Feed them, and they will live.

San Antonio, TX(Zone 8b)

I think feeding, or rather not feeding, might be what stalls a lot of my seedlings. Many of them tend to germinate and get two inches high and then just sit there at that stage for what I think is way too long. Eventually I tend to pot them up even though they don't have a second set of leaves, which is pretty hard on them. Some make it, some don't!

SE Houston (Hobby), TX(Zone 9a)

LiseP,
I hear yah. I made the horrible mistake of feeding my 208 tomato seedlings TOO MUCH back in January, and wiped out about 1/3 of my total crop. I won't make that mistake again. The clue there was TOO MUCH. From my observations, they DID need feeding, contrary to what some growers feel about feeding seedlings -- just not as much as I gave them...

This seedling thing is a fascinating lesson in observation for me, and I am just loving it!!! I can now tell by just watching my seedlings when they're saying, "uh, FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED me, Baby!" At first, when I saw signs of stalling or decline, I immediately thought they just needed more water. But, there are subtle differences in when they need water and when they need food.

I double-checked on that huge swooning seedling this morning, and, sure enough, that baby has hardened up and is standing at attention. Out of the four huge leaves that went all splotchy, only one is showing any evidence of the yellow polka dots. The others are perfectly green, again.

What I learned from the January disaster, is that, while they DO need to be fed at some point, they do NOT need a whole lotta food. So, I'm taking my good friend Al's (Tapla's) advice, and feeding them WEAKLY, weekly. My current formula is 2 small ends of the green Miracle Grow Water Soluble Plant Food for Veggies spoon to one gallon of water. The smaller babies only get 1 spoon to a gallon. The hardier cabbages and especially the mustards and collards can take 2 spoons (they'd love more, but they're just being greedy...).

I also made another observation on crowding/overcrowding in seed trays. I still have two community trays of Snowball Cauliflower and Late Flat Dutch Cabbage seedlings that I broadcast sowed several weeks ago (maybe 5?6?). There must be about 25-30 cauliflowers and about 15-20 cabbages growing close together in those aluminum pans. But, here's the observation. They are all doing FINE! In fact, I could probably set those trays out to harden them off for a week, then transplant the HUGE seedlings directly into the buckets. Which is what I probably will do.

They are perfectly healthy, and they are only growing in about 2.5" of potting mix. All of them are extremely strong, and they each have at least two-three sets of large, true leaves. I think the key is that the roots are being kept watered and fed ENOUGH, on a regular basis. A couple of times they sucked up all the moisture before I realized it, and the soil did almost dry out. But, as soon as I doused them again, they all revived and continue growing in excellent health.

The only down side I'm seeing is that a few of the seedlings under the larger leaves aren't being exposed to as much light, but, they are not languishing in any significant way that I can tell. Every now and then I move a few leaves around to help them out, and they seem to appreciate it with a smile!

Fascinating stuff! I'm loving this.

Please, keep in mind that these are my observations only, and not to be taken as any kind of "etched in stone" truth. I'm simply happy to share what I see and learn, based on my own experiences. I pray that my eyesight is as keen as I think it is. And, even though I am losing my hearing in one ear (very slowly), as a Choir Director, I still hear everything, everywhere, and, at the same time. I've actually put my ears close to the trays when I water them, and can hear the water being soaked up! Just another observation!

Hugs, Ya'll

Linda

Irving, TX(Zone 8a)

My GARLIC has been planted !
Tonight is a NEW MOON - PERFECT to grow the best garlic !

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Irving, TX(Zone 8a)

Quote from 1lisac :
I have noticed that some of the Swiss Chard I sowed ,after it had germinated, is thriving while some cultivators are stalled and others died. .


1lisac,
when I sow my seeds outside I always follow the Moon calendar. The moon regulates the soil moisture.
I found out that if I sow my seeds outside in the wrong days they will just dye.
I have been following her calendar for almost two years and I have no problem at all (if I am seeding the right crop at the right time off course).
i am not an expert at all ... just lucky I think !


It might be magic ... but it works for me

Liberty Hill, TX(Zone 8a)

I didnt sow mine by the moon calendar BUT I sowed them all on the same day. The only difference is the cultivators. I have read that Bright Lights is not as tolerant of cold or heat, so Im sure there are others. I do think that they would do better in cooler weather and since the night time temps have dropped some I have noticed them growing bigger too. They are all watered, fed, the same and have the same exposure to sunlight bright but not direct.

Rich-I will get back to you on the ones that have done well dispite the 105+* temps in the shade on my back deck.

I am planing to sow a few more outside directly in the pots (no pre germination) this weekend when the weather cools down. Im interested to see how much difference the cooler temps make in germination and overall plant development. I will pass the info along for any one who might be interested. I cant see your eyes glaze over, have sympathy for my kids. LOL

Irving, TX(Zone 8a)

Quote from 1lisac :
I didnt sow mine by the moon calendar BUT I sowed them all on the same day.


Which moon calendar are you following?

I have seeded Bright Light too and it did germinate.

This message was edited Sep 27, 2011 12:15 PM

This message was edited Sep 27, 2011 7:33 PM

Richland, WA(Zone 7b)

drthor, how much space is between the garlic cloves in your photo? They look pretty close together. I plant mine about 5" apart.

Irving, TX(Zone 8a)

My garlic cloves are about 4-5" apart.
This year my garlic has been "promoted" since I am dedicating a bed just to garlic.
Previously I grew garlic in between lettuce and other crops as a filler ... so I will watch and learn ...

SE Houston (Hobby), TX(Zone 9a)

Do you cover those cloves at some point? Or, do they just start sprouting from there? And, how long until you harvest a new clove?

Irving, TX(Zone 8a)

Gymgirl you are funny ....
Off course I planted the garlic cloves. I just took a picture before planting them ... duuuuhhh
They will need to be planted: point up and depth three times the size of the bulb.

Plant today ... or you must wait untill the next NEW MOON which will be October 26, and since you are in Zone 9a ... I think it still be good ... but I am no expert !

I normally start to harevst my garlic in May, when the leaves turn brown.

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Liberty Hill, TX(Zone 8a)

"Quich moon calendar are you following?" I'm a little confused, nothing new. I dont follow any moon calendar. I just meant the only difference I could find in the 8 types of Chard I started were the cultivators, everything else was the same.

I have grown Bright Lights also,never said I didnt, I just mentioned that the info I have on it says its not as tolerant of extreme heat or cold as some others are.

Drthor-I really cant compare our growing conditions because if we lived in any other state (smaller state) you and I would probably be in 2 different states. If we were in Europe we could be in 2 different Countries. LOL
When I lived in So Cal and drove as long as it would take me to get Irving I would be in Central or Northern Cal, there is no comparison, IMO even tho the zones are the same.

Rich-The cultivators that have done the best for me in the heat are: Swiss Chard "Rhubarb", "Sibilla", and"Riccia Da Taglio". When I say the best I mean they had the highest rate of germination, highest survival rate of post germination direct sowing, and are growing the fastest. As I mentioned above, ALL the plants seem to be growing faster now that the nights have cooled down at least.

Irving, TX(Zone 8a)

"Riccia da Taglio" Swiss Chard is a short lived perennial in my garden (maybe 2 years).
Tollerate extreme heat and cold.

Gainesville, FL(Zone 8b)

Quote from 1lisac :
Rich-The cultivators that have done the best for me in the heat are: Swiss Chard "Rhubarb", "Sibilla", and"Riccia Da Taglio". When I say the best I mean they had the highest rate of germination, highest survival rate of post germination direct sowing, and are growing the fastest. As I mentioned above, ALL the plants seem to be growing faster now that the nights have cooled down at least.


Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. My poor sandy soil is already very hard on the chards, and I need all the help I can get to grow them.

-Rich

SE Houston (Hobby), TX(Zone 9a)

I've already offered my observation of Swiss Chard Bright Lights, which grew beautifully for me -- in the cool/moderately cold (down to around 45-50 degrees). As soon as it got too much heat from either the bright overhead sun, or when the outdoor temps started climbing past 70-75 degrees, it fainted. It stopped thriving when temps climbed past 80-85 degrees, and then bolted..

Liberty Hill, TX(Zone 8a)

That's pretty much the same range I stop thriving at too. lol

What's really strange is that some of the BL are just sprouting. I wonder if it was just too hot for them to germinate before (thermal dormancy). The ones i mentioned above pretty much kept on the same schedule.

SE Houston (Hobby), TX(Zone 9a)

My body hurts....

Last evening, I seriously began mixing up Al's container mix for the seedlings. I pulled out my industrial size tarp and spread it on the grass, and proceeded to dump buckets of pine bark fines, old and new, and Perlite into the middle. Then I guess-timated how many 6.5 gallon buckets it would fill, and tossed in the 10-10-10 and Dolomite Lime.

The longest part of the process was sifting the old MG Potting Mix that was in last season's Earthboxes. I grew onions in those, so the root systems didn't go way deep (THANK GOD!!!!). Actually, it didn't take all that long, as I basically just pushed it through 1/2" hardware cloth to break up the clumps. And, since it was mostly dried out, it went smoothly. It's really the bending over, "how heavy a shovel-ful can I handle without throwing my back outta whack?" part that slows my process.

Anyway, dump, dump, dump, then pull the tarp corners and sides up and over to mix it all in, sprinkle, sprinkle, sprinkle as you go, to keep the fines and Perlite dust down. By then, it was dark, and instead of calling it a night and leaving it all where it was, I turned up some light, and kept on going....

I drilled 1" holes in the bottoms of the buckets, and lined each with a square of weed block (I tested it first with a mock-up, to see if the water would drain out -- it did -- and the Perched Water Table (PWT) is so low (about 2-3" from the bottom) that I'll be ripping the plants out before the roots reach the PWT zone. This formula yielded 32.5 gallons of planting mix; enough to fill FIVE 6.5 gallon buckets, or SIX and ONE-HALF 5 gallon buckets. I sprinkled each planting hole with 4 fingers of Epsom Salts (EP) and 1/2 Tsp. of Dolomite Lime before sinking the plants.

I planted 4 Early Jersey Wakefield cabbages and found the last of the Arcadia Broccoli that had eluded me on the trays. And, either I was hallucinating by then, or those plants sure looked really, really green when I turned the lights out...that EP must 'a kicked in!

Godspeed, and Good Harvest!

Linda

This message was edited Sep 29, 2011 10:34 AM

Irving, TX(Zone 8a)

The FAVA BEANS are growing too fast. Right now they are up maybe 10" .. .ouch ...
The outside is not ready for them. My eggplants are still producing ...

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Irving, TX(Zone 8a)

My BROCCOLI also are doing great growing indoor.
I have thinned to one seedling for each 4" pot now.
They should be really good when I will transplant them outside in about 3 weeks, taking the place of my cucumber plants, which still are giving me about 10 cukes every other day.

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Gainesville, FL(Zone 8b)

Quote from Gymgirl :
My body hurts....


Wow. I'm having sympathy pains just reading about it. That sounds like a LOT of work! At 62, I've slowed down a bit - so I don't really have to think about pacing myself much any more. ;o)

-Rich


Tucson, AZ(Zone 9b)

Here are some photos from my fall garden:

Green beans all squished together -- Tendergreen Improved, Stringless green pod, and Royal Burgundy.

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Tucson, AZ(Zone 9b)

Close of up Royal Burgundy.

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Tucson, AZ(Zone 9b)

Tomatoes. Prudens Purple, Heinz Classic Processor, Nebraska Wedding, and Peron.

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Irving, TX(Zone 8a)

Mindyrecycles,
I never planted green beans ... I had experience this year with "cow peas" (which they taste like beans) ..
anyway , where did you seed your beans ?
They look beautiful.

Tucson, AZ(Zone 9b)

Cherry Belle and Watermelon radishes on each side. Obviously must thin soon! And Fingerling carrots are just up in the middle, although you can't see them thanks to my photography skills.

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Tucson, AZ(Zone 9b)

Boothby's Blonde cucumber. Some have been absolutely delicious and some have come out bitter!

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Tucson, AZ(Zone 9b)

Armenian cucumbers are growing beautifully, but the first two that I picked were about this size and tasted absolutely horrible. Bitter bitter bitter. I guess I'll leave this one on the vine a lot longer and then if it's still bad, I'll pull up the plant.

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