KyWoods,
Wish I could. One thing I've learned about Copperheads [since I got this one] is that they don't 'drive'. Unlike most snakes, Copperheads don't run from us. They stand their ground. That is believed to be one of the reasons why they account for the most bites in the US. There camouflage makes them difficult to see, and they are inclined to stay put. If you walk too close or stick your hand in a bush or plant where one is, it will strike. Researchers think they may use a dry/bluff strike in much the same way that rattlesnakes use the rattles to warn us off.
All my life I had learned not to fear snakes. I thought if you looked carefully and made a little noise/motion to let snakes know you were coming, you would be fairly safe as they would move out of the way. Most snakes see us and take off. That's what I counted on them to do, get out of the way before I get there.
Mr Copperhead never does that. He stands right there staring at me. When I 1st met Mr Copperhead, he was in front of the door. Widget, who was a puppy then, walked over him twice, and still Mr Copperhead remained right there in the same spot, stretched out in front of the door. Amazingly, he didn't strike Widget (who apparently has 9 lives like a cat!). I guess he didn't feel threatened. He also didn't run from me when I stood in the doorway looking down at him or when I took his picture, 2 or 3, in fact.
Since that day, I've seen Mr C many times over the years and always, always the same. He always stands his ground. That is what scares me the most about him. He defies the one thing I thought I could always count on from snakes. When I did some research on his species I found that is a known characteristic of copperheads.
Heidi Chronicles: Cookie Time - Won't You Join Us?
Sheri,
I thought I had read that somewhere, and I know that Mr C didn't show up here until after they killed that huge rat snake.
The rat snake used to hang out under the wax myrtles in the front yard waiting to eat the eggs of the mockingbirds that nested there. After the rat snake was killed, the rat population at the bird feeders blossomed, and the copperhead made his 1st appearance of many on the scene, an obvious improvement (she says with a hint of sarcasm).
Today I finally got more cat food and a new can of DEET. I doused myself a total of 3 times before the mosquitoes finally quieted down. I was finally able to stay out back and wait for the raccoons. Much as I had feared, they did not show up before dark.
Given the time of year, the fact that their appetites will be winding down now, the presence of the fall harvest of nuts and berries in the area as plants continue to grow, and the lack of competition for food now that Heidi has removed all of the other raccoons from her area, I was afraid once I stopped waiting for them the raccoons would stop showing up on time each day. They probably still come by, but now they may drop in later whenever they get here. Since I've been leaving the food, they can drop by when they please, and having run the others off, they don't have to worry that other raccoons will get here 1st and eat the food.
Over the coming days I'll try to lure them back, try to get them to meet me on time once more, but there is a good chance it will fail. This time of year they don't need me or my food as much as they did in spring and summer. They may not need the food enough to be willing to adopt my schedule again now. I'll try.
On the bright side, today I had chicken and I took the bones out for the raccoons. I remembered how much they had enjoyed chicken bones the last time we had them some time back. Petey, who no longer cares for cookies, especially loves meat treats. I was looking forward to giving him the bones. When they didn't show up, I left the bones by their food, but they will need to be quick to get chicken bones before Snowball and Puddle smell them and come running. I could always count on the opossums showing up any time I had chicken. That seems to be one of their favorites.
I had been sitting out there waiting only a short time, had only applied the 1st of 3 layers of DEET when Kitty showed up. She sat down beside me and stayed with me the whole time. I knew there was a good chance the raccoons would not show up after my prolonged absence this late in the year, so I didn't worry about her too much. When it finally got too dark to stay any longer, she and I walked back to the house together.
Edited to add: Kitty sat with me, the both of us watching the forest edge for the raccoons to appear. I have no doubt that Kitty knew exactly what we were waiting for. Tomorrow, I will 'encourage' her to stay indoors at buffet time.
This message was edited Oct 20, 2010 2:44 AM
What I'm about to ask/bring up is a very big subject, too big really for this thread. It really needs a thread of its own, but I'm going to ask it here because I've been wondering how all of you feel about the subject and if you've heard about it even, so here goes... oh, and you know me by now. Why just ask the question outright when I can bury it in a few pages of wordiness? lol.
As a small child growing up I often pondered my good luck at having been born here - for a number of reasons, most notably the fact that we have plenty - even when we don't think so. I had seen on the news (as a child) that children in some countries were starving, living in little more than huts, living in filth, and living in the midst of war. I wondered why I had been born here while others had been born in poor areas, areas with wars, etc. I felt very lucky.
As I grew to be an older child I became aware that many people live in areas where they are threatened by such extreme predators as boas, anacondas, etc. Such venomous pit vipers as rattle snakes terrify me, but they are nothing when compared with snakes that might consider us lunch. Here again, I have always felt myself lucky to live in a place where I don't have to worry about such things.
I can sit in my backyard at night, sit all the way back by the forest edge waiting for the raccoons to arrive as I have done many times over the years. I don't have any realistic concern that a lion or tiger will emerge from the forest to make me his lunch. Neither do I worry that a giant anaconda will slither up beside me. I cannot even imagine such a thing. My worst fear is that Mr Copperhead may accidentally stray too close to me. The big difference here is that Mr Copperhead doesn't want to find me and he cannot eat me. Some of the animals and reptiles in other places can and will.
Recently, I've been furious to learn that this dynamic is in danger of changing forever. Already several terrifying reptiles have gone loose in Florida, mostly in the Keys - along with some rodents so large that cats are afraid of them. As I understand it some of the species that have gotten loose in the last decade include: pythons, anacondas, monitor lizards, capybaras, and the Gambian rat. The last 2 are large rodents, roughly the size of a dog and a cat respectively. This is by no means a complete list, just those I recall off hand. You may also have heard about an invasive fish called the Snake Head which was 1st seen in the waters around DC and which has since been found in coastal waters in NC, SC, and even CA.
Studies show that these species, particularly the large reptiles, are now proliferating in the wild and that it is probably already too late to put that genie back into the bottle. Moreover, these reptiles are on the move spreading northward across Florida. Several studies conducted in colder regions (including colder parts of SC) indicate that these reptiles may ultimately be able to settle as far north as DC under present conditions, and will likely spread even farther north as global warming continues to heat up the continent.
My question then is (1) are you aware of this and (2) how do you feel about it? We often discuss our feelings on the effects of invasive plant species and occasionally mention a few invasive song birds, but I've not heard anyone talk of the horrifying prospect of having large, predatory reptiles loose among us. Are you aware that these invasive animal species are already on the move within our country, and that some of these animals present a serious threat to us, our children and pets, and to our native species? I for one am furious. Native snakes such as rattle snakes and moccasins strike fear into my heart, but I have always considered myself lucky to live in a place where I at least do not have to fear walking up on a snake the size of a telephone pole. Some of the snakes in question are large enough to eat adult alligators (and have done so).
Now I don't wish to start any kind of negative conversation here - please. There will always be differences of opinions in all things. I believe we can discuss our opinions while remembering to respect everyone's right to his/her own opinion. Sadly, there may not be a lot that we can do to stop the spread of these and other animals into our country now that the spread has already begun.
According to wildlife officials the pythons and anacondas are currently devastating local wildlife populations in the keys. Stomach contents found in these snakes have included: deer, rabbits, dogs, cats, turtles, a 6ft alligator, and several endangered species including endangered turtles and an endangered egret. One snake was found to have among its stomach contents 2 of an animal so endangered there are only 200 known to exist in the world - unfortunately I cannot recall which animal, sorry. Local species don't know anything about such large, predatory snakes and are not equipped (with knowledge) to avoid them. Monitor lizards are reportedly very aggressive and represent a threat to humans especially children.
2 things are believed to have caused the release of these creatures into our ecosystems. Some are believed to have escaped from zoos and other similar institutions as well as from individual collections in the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew. Many others are believed to have been released by collectors who find that they can no longer house, feed, and manage the large reptiles as they grow. It's the latter that frustrates me. That some of these animals may have gotten loose when their homes and cages were damaged in a Cat 5 hurricane seems an unfortunate accident. I'm not so much angry with those whose animals got loose in such a largely unforeseeable manner. That foolish and irresponsible individuals are bringing these animals into the country and then setting them free when they can no longer deal with them, however, annoys me to no end.
Anyhow, I was just wondering if you were aware of any of this. I also wondered if you realized that no matter where you live (short of maybe Canada, Michigan, and Maine) you may not be safe from these creatures for long. They haven't made it to SC yet, but most researchers believe they will get here eventually. I don't think they have actually made it as far as northern Florida and the panhandle, but, again, it's probably just a matter of time.
This thread may seem an unlikely place for the discussion except that raccoons are among the animals frequently found among the stomach contents of these massive snakes and thus are among the native populations most likely to be effected by the introduction of these creatures into our ecosystems. And that's not to mention pets, children - and ME.
Please, please, please be careful to keep your responses clean and respectful as you always have. I believe we can all express our opinions and frustrations w/o resorting to really ugly behavior. Let's try to keep it on a level you wouldn't mind your mother, your employer, or your pastor reading. Thank you in advance for your restraint.
Yep, I've seen it on tv, on the internet. Irresponsible pet owners have always infuriated me, but they wouldn't even have those animals if they weren't made available to them by the pet trade, legal or illegally. It's a horrible injustice to the animals, who should have been left where they belonged, and a horrible injustice to our native animals. And, yes, to us, ultimately.
The whole thing really outrages me!
Ditto to KyWoods.
In this case, I think that we need more laws against the importation of non-native plants and animals. I hate the thought of adding more laws, but this is our only ecosystem and we must protect it. It might be that we could bring the populations down in 5 years if we, the taxpayers, either push for more hired hunters or a call to arms for the citizens to actively hunt them down and receive a bounty or a certificate of thanks.
June,
In the Keys and surrounding area of Florida there are numerous individuals and groups who donate their time spending nights patrolling for the snakes. The boas and other big snakes tend to lie up on the roads at night to enjoy the residual heat held by the pavement. People (with knowledge of snakes) drive around with a light looking for eyes on the pavement. They bag the invasives and turn them in to the DNR where the snakes are euthanized. Apparently, there are quite a number of people doing this. I don't know if they get paid per snake or not. The problem is that there are already 10's, perhaps 100's, of thousands of snakes and each female has dozens more several times per year. The people hunting the snakes can't keep up with the population growth. The problem may already be too far gone and thus irreversible. And despite all this there is evidence that the population continues to move northward at what authorities consider a fairly rapid pace.
It's all pretty scary. I don't know if the DNR is paying a bounty for the snakes, but they did pay one for the Snake Head fish in an effort to get sports fishermen to assist in the removal. If you haven't heard of the Snake Head, it's a pretty frightful fish. It can 'walk' across land using its fins and can breath air on land as well as in water. When left in a bucket to dry out with no water, a group of them looked dead. Then when water was added days later to reconstitute them, they 'woke up' and started moving again. They have a mouthful of teeth and have been known to attack fishermen causing nasty lacerations. They eat and compete with area fish and have no known predators in our streams. Honestly, I'm a lot more concerned about the large snakes, but the fish can also do a lot of damage to the ecosystem according to authorities.
I, too, thought that changing the laws to avoid importing any more of these exotic snakes was the way to go, but officials say that will only drive the trade underground but will not stop it. Many authorities think it's better if they can try to regulate trade so they at least have an idea of what is coming in. But that doesn't seem to be working so well so far. One proposal on the table involves implanting a tracking device in the snakes (like used for pets now). That would make owners responsible for their pets and allow for huge fines when/if those pet snakes are found in the wild. Honestly, I don't know what the answer is. It's interesting to hear everyone's ideas and views on this.
Yay! The raccoons did come to meet me today. I was afraid this late in the season they wouldn't, but they did. Yippee! It sure was nice to see them again, too. Heidi didn't show up before I came inside, just the 3 kits. I had a few more bones for them today, just the bones from the 2 chicken wings. Not a lot, but they were thrilled just the same. They grabbed the bones as soon as they arrived.
They also asked for cookies. Thinking the raccoons wouldn't show up, I hadn't bothered to take the cookies with me although I did get several more bags the other day. I promised to take them cookies tomorrow.
While I was sitting out there waiting for the raccoons and thinking they probably weren't coming, I could hear the neighbor and his grown sons and one small grandchild outside talking loudly and making other noises. I could hear 2-stroke engines running as people who had been couped up all summer by the extreme heat were now outside enjoying the temperate weather. They weren't being unduly noisy, just the normal celebration of people finally able to enjoy the outdoors. Still I was sure the raccoons would not appreciate the noise and would not likely come over the fence even if they did show up.
But I was wrong. It was getting dark fast when I finally saw the 1st tug on the little holly branch. What? Could this be my raccoon friends after all. I held my breath in anticipation. A moment later a kit appeared at the top of the fence. "Come on, Sweetie!" I said with the enthusiasm of someone who hadn't seen them for days. The kit moved the rest of the way up onto the fence but hesitated to come down. Then suddenly I became aware of the presence of another raccoon farther down the fence in front of the Heidi tree. It was Petey! He ran down the fence and jumped the last 1/3 of the way down. He looked as excited to see me as I was to see him. "Petey!" I cried out, "Come on, Petey!" Seeing Petey running towards me, the other kit hurried down the fence, too. Soon all 3 kits were in front of me gobbling up cat food and chicken bones.
Yay! ;-D
Hopefully, when the kids get home and tell Heidi I was there today, she will show up with them tomorrow. Hopefully.
So glad you got to see the kits again; and like you, I hope Heidi will hear the news and show up tomorrow.
The problem of invasive fauna is very real and actually very old, going at least as far back as the Norway rat introduced all over the world in ship cargos, and non-native fish and other water life introduced via ships' ballast. Then there are the species who have wreaked havoc with the ecology in places like Hawaii and Australia, and which were intentionally introduced in ill-conceived efforts to control another problem. And hybrid species produced by human intervention, like the killer bee which is rapidly spreading through country after country. The list goes on and on; the damage to native wildlife, entire ecosystems, and yes, the threat to human life, is staggering.
And while anacondas and pythons are a bit chilling, monitors and other large carnivorous lizards like the Komodo dragon are just plain terrifying. Think a mind as foreign and predatory as an alligator or croc, but much larger, more mobile, faster, and oh yes, they climb...fast. Why people think they can ever be safe pets is inconceivable to me.
Ruth,
The monitor lizard is already living, prospering, and multiplying in the wild in south western Florida, in Cape Coral. The monitor is roughly 6ft and is a relative of the Komodo Dragon. It is said to be a serious threat to people and especially to pets and small children. Here are 2 links regarding the monitors in FL:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/environment/wildlife/article1011745.ece
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/05/090519-giant-lizards-florida.html
The monitor lizards run around on roof tops in what was (before the bust) a very expensive area to live.
Oh, and animal control in southern Florida now has to answer calls from people with telephone pole sized (diameter) snakes on their lawns, rats the size of dogs, and monitor lizards running around on the property. Can you imagine that? That certainly puts a whole new level of danger and difficulty on that job. Some of the snakes are upwards of 200lbs and require a half dozen people to handle them.
I realize invasive species have been brought here for hundreds of years, but up until now most have been accidents (except, of course, for the morons who bring them here to solve another problem - which never works out right - and the idiot who created killer bees. I'm still angry about that last one) and most have not posed a serious threat to humans. Except for the wild boar, that is.
Hogs were brought here by early settlers as a food source and were set free, intentionally, in the hopes they would proliferate creating an ongoing food source. That worked really well. Now they are all over SC, GA, and Florida and as far west as TX. Wild boar do pose a threat to humans and have attacked people and pets. I've never seen one even though I live in an area where there are many - I'm hoping that will also be true of these new invasives.
There is a large group of wild boar in the forest behind my house, and I would be scared of them were it not for my privacy fence. The boar have in the past come out at night to search for grubs in my neighbors lawn. One morning I looked over at his 'freshly plowed' lawn and actually thought he had decided to plow it under for some strange reason. That's when he saw me looking at it and told me about the herd of wild boar that had been in his backyard overnight rooting around and digging everything up. After that he put up wire along the forest edge to keep them from coming out onto his property. Wild boar are reputedly quite mean (but then I'm reminded that most people think this of raccoons). They can run faster than humans and are said to chase and attack. I hope never to run across one.
I do hate when anything upsets the ecosystem, but I must be honest. Rats, fish, and song birds don't begin to upset me as much as 200lb snakes do. For some reason I'm more afraid of the snakes than the lizards. Maybe it's just that snakes inhabit our nightmares in some irrational way. Of course, I've not met a monitor yet, so I reserve the right to change my mind.
When I was in the army, we camped out in Germany with wild boar running around...not a comforting thought when you have to go out in the woods to potty in the middle of the night!
KyWoods,
How true, but did you see that we have them right here? I mean, you don't need to go to Europe to find them. You could just camp out behind my house. Are you sure you don't have wild boar there in KY?
I just checked. Here is a USDA map of wild hog sitings: http://128.192.20.53/nfsms/
Looks like there are fewer reports in your state than neighboring states for some reason, but according to this map they exist in all of the states surrounding you including: TN, NC, VA, WV, OH, Indiana, and Missouri. There do appear to be some more isolated sightings in your state, too. You may have some nearby and not even know it. We have them here, and I've never seen one even though I grew up in a rural area.
Edited to add: When viewing the map, you can get a better look at sightings in your area by zooming in.
This message was edited Oct 21, 2010 1:34 PM
No reports of them here in our area. Probably only a matter of time!
Maybe you are lucky. Maybe there is something about the geography of your region that is not good for them. It almost looks as though that must be the case, since it otherwise seems very odd to see the numbers of sightings in surrounding states compared to yours. It looks as though they have intentionally bypassed you. Is your area mountainous? I think they prefer flatter terrain. Also they like wet, swampy areas. Must be something.
Maybe you guys just aren't very hospitable. Do you eat a lot of pork there? Barbecue maybe? If so, word must have gotten out.
Edited to fix typo. Oops. I mean't 'are not' hospitable. Kinda' changes the meaning.
This message was edited Oct 21, 2010 1:39 PM
ROFL Well, we do always have ham in the fridge...
Rolling hills here, no mountains, and almost no rain this year!
We cook all our veggies with a chunk of ham for seasoning here, even use ham to season rice pilaf and veggie soup. Also, whereas some areas serve BBQ beef, we know that it's not BBQ unless it's pork. But if you note, we don't have the quantity of sightings of some states either. There are many hunters here who think nothing of taking one of those feral hogs home for a pit cooked feast. Maybe that's why our numbers are so low compared to some. We ate all of ours, and if those snakes and lizards come here, we might just cook them up, too.
Well, Folks, it's that time again, time to close this thread which is rapidly growing too long and move on to a new one here:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1136516/
Please don't forget to mark the new thread so you will move with us! Look forward to seeing you there.
