Heidi Chronicles: Baby Talk 2010

Wonder if they make Adderall for racoons??

It sure does present a dilemma. Albeit one that may not last much longer.
Dennis did not appear bothered by the kit jumping on her. When the little jabberwock would go to one side, Cissy would just roll her generously sized back end to the opposite side of the kit. Then the kit would go to the "open side" and Dennis would just roll over in that direction. A very effective maneuver indeed. that kit might not have as short a bus as we think.
Time will tell!
Cheers to you, Cheryl and many thanks.....oh and ..um ..keep the pics and videos coming. It would be just too great to see that kit do its belly flop then run the straight route thru the pool to catch up with Cissy.

Sheri

edited to correct spelling error

This message was edited Jul 11, 2010 3:10 AM

Good one, Ky. And Cheryl, ROFLOL at "the kit bounces well though." Please try hard not to get emotionally attached to this kit; hopefully the incredibly annoying behavior will facilitate that. His/her behavior is truly abnormal; something is very wrong. I'm concerned that his/her behavior is going to get Cissy killed, further injured or, as you say, ousted from the buffet; I really don't have much hope of the kit making it. If he/she survives to the point where Cissy kicks him out, I can't imagine this one surviving on his own. As we all know, nature is tough and doesn't play favorites; if survival of the fittest is the rule, well... Cissy needs time and nutrition to help heal the injury she's already sustained; the kit's outlandish behavior threatens her survival as well as his own. And yes, I do know that this is much easier said than done. But you were able to be realistic about the chances for Fraidy and Bast (after her massive injuries); they have proven to be miracle kids, but this kit is in another category altogether, unfortunately. Frankly, Cissy deserves the medal of valor for not drowning him shortly after birth; she knows all too well that his behavior is threatening her life as well as his own. Apologies if this sounds heartless, but imagine him/her surviving to pass on those genes to the next generation: that's a really poor idea for the viability of their little community.

Perhaps you could trap him/her and send him to a rehabber...or a racoon psych ward?

Ruth,

I didn't find your words heartless at all, just very realistic. So far, I think I'm pretty safe as far as the kit goes. As I mentioned, the kit is MUCH louder in person. The camera doesn't pic up sound at all well. There have been times in the past when I've caught video only to find that the vocalizations I had hoped to share were largely missing. The kit's trilling only 'shows up' on the video because it is so incredibly loud and shrill, like a near endless shrieking sound.

I'm not one who enjoys noise. It seems to go directly to my nervous system setting off an alert of some kind. I find it most unpleasant. As a result, I find it rather painful to be around the little guy for any period of time. I reiterate that this one does not trill like the normal kit. I've found normal trilling to be a soft, melodic sound, a lovely sort of background music. This kit makes a shrill, hi pitched, screaming sound that sets my nervous system on edge. It's a little like listening to a nonstop recording of nails on a chalkboard, not so much in terms of the sound itself as the effect.

I was very honest when I said that sometimes I hate it and wish it would SHUT UP! Honestly, I was afraid others would think my words harsh, but the kits causes non-stop pandemonium along with nerve rattling noise from the moment it arrives until it leaves. It's difficult to get too attached to that. In just 3 visits I've grown to feel very, very sorry for poor Cissy and to wonder how on earth she puts up with that 24/7. I honestly don't think I could do it.

Sheri,

Cissy and the kit have only visited 4 times with me there. The 1st and last times they were there hiding in the hydrangeas before I came out, so I've only seen the kit come down the fence 2x. The 1st time, when I heard all that screeching, I hurriedly threw the camera up in video mode. I honestly thought that I had caught it. That time the kit made it to with in the last 2ft or so of the post before flying off.

As the camera takes a minute or so to get in gear and start recording and as the kit is moving pretty fast as it scrambles across the fence and down the post, I'm not sure now whether I actually managed to get any part of it or whether the video started too late. I haven't finished watching the videos, so it might be in there somewhere, but I'm starting to think I missed that part.

The 2nd time the kit arrived I wasn't able to get the camera in gear and position in time. That kit was really flying that day. It practically jumped/fell from near the top of the post, at about the 5ft mark I would estimate. The kit doesn't bother to climb down taking time to let its claws lock into the wood. Instead it runs across the fence top and keeps running (like on the surface) when it reaches the post, only now the fool thing is running on a vertical surface, which does not work even for a raccoon. Heck even Heidi can't run down the fence post. Anyhow, I missed that shot.

I would LOVE to get the kit's full arrival complete with the entire obstacle course and swim on film and will keep trying for that goal. It's difficult though since I don't know when they will show up, am often dealing with the others at the moment they do arrive, and have very little time to get the camera on the kit before it swan dives off the post and belly flops on the bare ground.

I believe I did get some footage of the kit swimming across the pool though. I still have a lot of footage I haven't viewed myself much less loaded. BTW, I actually think the level of the water is such that the kit could walk across the water, but it always jumps in and starts swimming. Reminds me of the scene from Robin Hood (80's version) where this guy is flopping around in the water and screaming for help saying, "Help! Save Me! I can't swim!" Robin Hood turns to the 'drowning' man and calmly says, "Can you stand?" The man looks confused for a moment and then stops flailing around long enough to realize that the water is only waist deep.

KyWoods,

I can barely tolerate the non-stop, high pitched, loud screeching for 30min a day. I can't image that any rehabber would want to live with it for the life of the kit. I've come to believe that the kit isn't quite 'right', that something is wrong with it and it will probably always be 'off'.

Also, I have no way to trap one raccoon out of the gang that comes to visit daily. It would be nearly impossible to single out an adult that way and even more so with a kit that is being guarded by its mom. I wouldn't want to capture one of their babies even if it were possible. I've worked too hard to gain their trust, and I have no doubt they would never forgive me for stealing a baby.

Ruth,

I must be honest and give credit where due. I stole that line from the movie Flash Dance. One of the girls falls and slides across the ice on her bottom during an ice skating competition. Later when discussing it the father tries to diffuse the situation with the line, "Well, at least you bounce well" and everyone including the girl laughs.

It was one of my favorite movies. For some reason that line stuck with me all these years.

You have me laughing to tears with that description of the fool kit running literally non stop both across the fence landing and down the post. I have a pretty good mental picture thanks to your gift with words even sans any video!
I did not realize until reading your fingernail on the blackbord comparison just how different this kits "trill" was. Can you get 2 pair of earplugs? One for you and one for Cissy? Well...I'm sure you could, bt teaching Cissy how to wear them might be a challenge. ^_^

I suspect Cissy would love the effect of ear plugs, but inserting them....let's say it wouldn't be pretty. And Cheryl, I agree, that kit would likely be nonreleasable, and no one in their right mind (other than its mom) could live with that sound 24/7 for life. I'm sure Cissy just can't wait until he's weaned, though I'm sure she also knows he has little or no chance to survive on his own. I suspect this part of the story will be prolonged and pretty darn sad, because I too believe there's something seriously wrong with that child.

And of course you're also right that you can't even try to trap him. You'd be unlikely to succeed; and if you did, not one of the adult females, including Heidi, would ever forgive you. It would be the end of the trust you've worked so long and hard to build, and that you've achieved to an almost magical level. The reality is that Cheryl's role is of necessity limited to that of a supporting actor; drastic intervention is neither doable nor wise.

Oh yeah, Flash Dance; loved that movie, and I do remember that scene.

Have you ever heard the sound that baby chimney swifts make from a nest in someone's chimney? It's really difficult to describe, because I've never heard anything else like it: the best I can do is a cross between a shriek, an alien invasion, and a giant swarm of insects, but LOUD - you have to raise your voice to be heard over it. The babies start up with it at dawn and continue until dark, every blessed day. Among the toughest calls I ever had to field in animal control were from people whose chimney had become a nesting site, people suffering from sleep deprivation and/or homicidal rage. Sadly, I had to tell them there wasn't a thing I could do; like all native birds, the chimney swift is protected by federal (and many states) law. And since uncapped working fireplaces without smooth liners are, like hollow trees, hard to find these days, their population is seriously endangered and the need for protection is taken seriously. I could only tell the unhappy residents that it is highly illegal to disturb the nest; and of course, as if it would be consoling, that it would only last for a few weeks. Needless to say, that was not well received, and I really did sympathize; I knew if it were my house I'd be awake every day at dawn for the duration, and wanting to scream every daylight moment I was in the house. I'd advise them to cap the chimney after the sound had been gone for several days, in order to prevent a reoccurrence; and that would be the end of one more nesting site, but I really needed to offer something positive that might help them stay sane for the duration. I honestly don't know how Cissy deals with this kit 24/7; unlike with chimney swifts, this level of irritating noise is both abnormal and dangerous in raccoons.

We had a chimney swift nesting in our fireplace the 1st year of living in our new home. since my bedroom was downstairs and I was the main person who frequented the rec room on my level, I was the discoverer of that weird sound Needless to say my parents had the chimney capped after they fledged.

Perhaps a high tech microphone on a boom would allow us to hear the shrill trill of the short bus baby. But until you acquire additional upper extremities, I imagine the maneuvering of all the AV equipment as a bit difficult. (I studied stage mgmt which is why the above scenario came to mind). Oh well, the earplugs and theatrical setup of boom mic et all lends a bit of humor to this sad state of affairs.

As always, wishing you well,
Sheri

Ruth,

Alas, I think this may be yet another example of how I grew up familiar with such unusual creatures as alligators and yet virtually unaware of the seemingly more common ones. I've no knowledge of chimney swifts whatsoever save the occasional mention in a novel. I'm thinking, like so many creatures that are common elsewhere, they must not live here since I was raised in houses with fireplaces that almost certainly lacked the protective coverings to keep out wildlife and yet we never once had the experience of cohabiting with chimney swifts.

Still, comparing the sound of chimney swifts to that of Cissy's youngster, I can relate to the anger and frustration homeowners must feel when forced to endure such noise for weeks on end. I'm surprised that people dealt with the situation as well as they apparently did - and can understand why the birds might be decreasing in number.

Now for the bad news...really, really bad...

Two days ago I witnessed my little special raccoon (i.e. Dennis) doing the unthinkable. I did not think it possible for me to come up with a good excuse for her behavior this time. Then, yesterday, before I could summon the courage to tell you about it, I witnessed yet another raccoon following suit.

I don't even know where to begin, so I'll just jump right in...2 days ago, during an argument over cookies or the lack thereof, Dennis walked over to the pool, climbed in, adopted a wide stance and proceeded to defecate right there in the pool. OMG, how disgusting! As we have discussed previously raccoon feces can be extremely hazardous because they may carry the raccoon roundworm which can be fatal in humans. Sources indicate that raccoon feces should be removed (with gloves) from the property immediately to keep. Once the ground becomes contaminated with the roundworm eggs, they may remain viable for nearly a decade. But the stuff is also described as amorphous, so how does one remove it from water?!

The water was pretty nasty at the time. I figure she probably did this as an editorial comment, either to express her discontent about the nasty water in the pool or about the lack of cookies the past few days. Cookies, it seems, are very important to Dennis. Most other treats will not suffice. She has turned up her nose at marshmallows and even at a few chocolate chip cookie fragments (from my personal stash). Apparently, she specifically wants her usual animal cookies or vanilla s/w cookies. After several days of disappointment sniffing the bag for her cookies and finding none, she may have done this horrible thing to make a point. Dennis has a history of defiant behavior in the face of such disappointment, after all. Still this has to be the worst thing she has done to date.

It is also possible that she was not the 1st to pollute the water. One of the kits may have done so previously, not realizing it was a bad thing to do especially since the water was fairly dirty. Once the water was already polluted, Dennis may have just been following suit. (See, I did manage to think of a way to ameliorate the relative 'badness' of her behavior after all. Turns out, with enough determination one can spin almost anything even this.) But, I doubt it happened this way. The prior explanation seems more likely, unfortunately.

The next day, yesterday, I could not find the energy to go out there during yet another triple digit heat wave to deal with raccoon poop in a pool of water. Then, yesterday evening I was totally shocked to witness another raccoon, one of the regulars, a yearling I think, go over to the pool and climb in. Other raccoons had been avoiding the pool completely. Even Cissy's kit had the where with all to go around it on his arrival instead of swimming through the muck. Befuddled at the sight of this raccoon getting into the now polluted pool, I continued to watch as she proceeded to also defecate in the pool. OMG! Had the pool somehow now become the new latrine?!

I came in last night totally disgusted to say the least. I wanted to write this then. I wanted to get your ideas on how to proceed, but I lacked the energy to even deal with it at the time. I had enough things to worry about w/o this, after all.

As I thought about how to proceed I came to a few seemingly irrefutable facts. First, I decided I needed to deal with the problem ASAP before the raccoons returned the following evening. The last thing I needed was yet MORE raccoons piling the noxious stuff in the pool. Second, after going over all the possibilities, I concluded that there was NO good way to now remove the raccoon feces from the pool.

This afternoon around 5PM, while we were still under a heat wave warning, a thunderstorm appeared on the horizon. Now, it seemed, the stakes were higher still. Once the storm began I would loose my last opportunity to take action today. Rain would raise the water level in the pool increasing the quantity of polluted water with which I had to ultimately deal. It might even cause the pool to overflow contaminating the area around the pool, the area where I would need to stand while dealing with the problem. And there was still the possibility that other raccoons might decide to use the pool for a latrine that night. I had to act and act quickly.

It was too late to avoid contaminating the soil with the raccoon feces. I needed to remove the water from the pool to diffuse the problem, and, as I saw it, my only real option was to dump the water out onto the ground thus permanently contaminating the soil in that area. That pool is extremely thin and flimsy. It would not be possible to move it with the water in it, not to mention that any attempt to do so would only increase the risk of sloshing the wretched brew onto me. Lacking a hazmat suit, I used what I had. I donned thick, elbow length rubber gloves, waterproof boots, and goggles, and headed out to the pool. I found that the water level in the pool was already too high to allow me to lift the pool to pour the water out. I had no choice but to use a large bucket to scoop the water out (gently). I stood on the higher ground and dumped the water (gently) onto the lower ground being careful to stay outside of its zone so as to try to avoid contamination of my boots. I left the pool upside down to prevent its use.

When finished, I put the bucket and gloves in a bag and put that in the garbage for pickup tomorrow. I came inside and washed well still sickened by the realization of what I had just done. I only hope that the presence of the feces on the ground back there will not now establish that spot as a latrine. I'm hoping the proximity to the buffet proper will preclude this. Otherwise, I've no idea what I will do.

I just came back from walking Widget (out front) for the last time tonight. The front yard was dark. I could only see shadows. While standing out there, I detected movement on one side of the front yard. Although I could see little in the darkness, just movement of some kind of creatures in the shadows, I was pretty sure they were raccoons who had come to the front yard looking for food because, due to the storm (coupled with the sickening pool debacle), I had not been able to feed the raccoons tonight.

The shadowy figures went up into the canopy of the Southern Magnolia. Minutes later I heard a soft trilling sound.

OK, that's really gross and totally unacceptable. No way to know who started that behavior, but stopping it is very important. Let's deal with cleanup first. A bleach solution will kill the parasites and their eggs/larvae; since you're dealing with the outdoors, I'd err on the side of extra strength and use a 1:20 solution (one part bleach to 20 parts water). Although it's understandable and reasonable if it helps with the yuck factor, there's no need to discard things like gloves and bucket if you disinfect them with bleach. After the surface of pool, gloves, whatever are in contact with the bleach solution for ten minutes, rinse well. However, and this is SUPER important, bleach is inactivated as a disinfectant by organic matter; so you need to get rid of the poop first, as with just a solution of dishwashing liquid or other detergent, Simple Green, whatever. This complicates things for dealing with the soil around the pool, since soil of course is organic. I'd do a heavy sprinkling of lime on the ground where the pool water was spilled; this will kill odor and dissolve any remaining poop, though it will take a few days to do so even in your heat. The lime will not harm the raccoons, dog or cats if they walk in it. For all practical purposes, disinfecting the soil is impossible; being sure the poop is totally gone is the best you can do.

Is Heidi still missing from the buffet? If so, I suspect you've just discovered the reason; she would find this totally disgusting, unacceptable, and would not want her kits around it.

Correcting the behavior is a challenge, since you don't know how long it's been going on, or if it's become a habit yet. The fact that mature raccoons are fouling the pool makes me suspect it's been happening for at least a few days, if not longer. Could another species, maybe one of the cats, have urinated in the pool as a protest of the raccoon presence/smells, and then the raccoons began using it to protest the cat? That's a stretch, and in any case it doesn't matter.

First, I'd make sure the pool is free of organics by spraying with detergent, Simple Green, etc. then rinse it. Fill the pool (to roughly the level it held when you dumped it tonight) and pour in a gallon of bleach or whatever to approximate the 1:20 ratio. Let sit for ten minutes, dump it and turn it upside down. I'd wait till you put it back in use to rinse it. And I'd make them do without it for at least a week, to make sure they get the point. Meanwhile apply the lime to soil around the pool. I know it's seems hard to deprive them of the pool in hot weather, but unfortunately that's just too bad. They have to understand that this behavior is unacceptable, will not be tolerated, and will lose them an important resource. There's water in the forest; they'll just have to find it.

Before you refill the pool for use, of course, you'll need to rinse it thoroughly. And if anyone uses it for a latrine again, I'd clean it and put it away, maybe in the garage. They need to learn that its use is a treat and a privilege, not a right; and they need to know that you have limits, and they've just hit them. They are very, very smart creatures, as we all know; and I have no doubt that they will be highly motivated by the absence of the pool. And BTW, it was very effective when you yelled at Dennis for a previous transgression; this is behavior that richly deserves a loud, resounding NO when you see it happen.

Boy this is indeed a shocking turn of events. How awful for you to have to go through this when you are such a wonderful host ,only to have a few inconsiderate(to say the least)guests ruin the fun and adventure for the others at the party. Good thing you actually saw Dennis and was able to handle it before it continued,though it sounds like you have much more to do to ensure a truly safe enviroment for yourself,Widget,Cocoa and Kitty(can the roundworms can get to them also?). Luckily Spartacusaby is here to help you through the steps in cleaning it up as much as possible.

Judy

I found this -
To eliminate eggs, raccoon feces and material contaminated with raccoon feces should be removed carefully and burned, buried, or sent to a landfill. Care should be taken to avoid contaminating hands and clothes. Treat decks, patios, and other surfaces with boiling water or a propane flame-gun. (Exercise proper precautions!)

Hi Ruth,

I was SO happy to get up this AM and find your very detailed instructions on how to 'fix' or at least improve the situation. I hadn't expected that - even though you usually give me great instructions whenever there is a problem of any kind with the raccoons. I just didn't think there was anything that could be done. Actually, I read your post when I got up around 3:30AM. I was looking forward to doing what you specified - well, not actually to the doing so much as the having done.

Unfortunately, it stormed and rained, heavily at times, all day long so that I was not allowed the opportunity to go out there at all. We've been having extreme heat and humidity again with daily heat warnings. All that heat has led to the buildup of lots of electrical activity which we saw dispersed today. Even during the storms it remains so steamy hot that one can feel the blanket of hot air when opening a door. Tomorrow morning at sunrise (6:30AM) it will already be in the 80's with a heat indexed temp of 91F - at sunrise! I look forward to using your instructions to fix the pool area but it will be unpleasant working out there. Well, enough about our lovely weather this time of year.

Heidi is still around. Since the kits started showing up, Heidi has been arriving late most days. She wasn't there when the deeds were done. Heidi doesn't bring her kits to the buffet yet, at least not when I am out there. I strongly suspect that this is because she is unwilling to bring them out in daylight, and that's when I've been going out there. As, with everything else that is going on, I've not dealt with the snake, I'm reluctant to go out there at night right now even though I realize this means I won't be seeing Heidi's kits for the time being.

Last night, Heidi, like most of the others, avoided the pool entirely. I doubt that Heidi will be willing to give up such a good, dependable food source over this. If it rises to 'deal breaker' for her, I suspect that she will oust those responsible - or everyone if the culprit cannot be pinpointed, but I think Heidi is more resourceful than that.

If I didn't know what I do regarding evidence to the contrary, I, too, would be inclined to think this might have been going on for a while. Here is the evidence I see to the contrary. It mainly breaks down to 2 categories those being appearance of the water before/after and behavior of the raccoons before/after :

(1) Since I clean the pool, I know what the water looks like. Until now, no matter how 'dirty' the water got, it was always relatively translucent. The green stuff, algae, I guess, grows in the water after 3 or 4 days and is there when I clean the pool. That has always been the condition of the water until now. Within 24hrs of Dennis defecating in the pool, the algae was completely gone and the water, no longer remotely translucent, was a dense, cloudy brown - yuck, sorry for the ick factor here. I had seen, photographed, and videod the water just 1 to 2 days before the incident. At that time the water was still 'normal' and covered in algae.

(2) After Dennis soiled the water I payed close attention to the reactions of the other raccoons. They tended to treat it like we would a nuclear spill, staying well clear of it no matter how thirsty they got. 1 to 2 days before the incident I had videoed 3 raccoons in the pool where they were eating kibble from the green water. I had noticed that the green water did not seem to bother them and was taking video to show all of you. For this reason, I just happened to be paying a lot of attention to both the quality of the water and the actions of the raccoons just 1 to 2 days before the incident. By comparison, immediately following the incident everyone steered clear of the pool.

Thanks again for the info. I'll follow it as soon as the storms and monsoons end.

Birdie, the source you found is being very conservative, which is understandable when dealing with a possible serious threat to human health like the raccoon ascarid/roundworm. However, if you think about it, neither shelters nor raccoon rehabbers could afford to stay open if they discarded every material that had been in contact with raccoons. The instructions I gave Cheryl are the methods I used when working at shelters, and they came directly from our area's top raccoon rehabber. They worked well, because in fifteen years in sheltering no one on my staff, nor any of the rehabbers, had a problem from the roundworm. Another reason for advising a conservative approach is that it is very, very difficult to convince the average citizen that bleach is useless in the presence of organic material; after all, it works well in your washer for dirty clothes, no? Well, yes, but that's for getting clothes clean and free of stains - not for thoroughly disinfecting them. I've known Cheryl long enough to know that she'll take the warning seriously and proceed accordingly. The instruction to wear gloves, BTW, is right on target and absolutely essential; but I saw from Cheryl's post that she already knew this.

Judy, cats and dogs can become infected by the raccoon roundworm; but it is just like any other roundworm for them, i.e. debilitating because the worms rob them of nutrition, but the routine wormers for pets will purge them. It's only in humans (and other primates, I believe) that that particular roundworm's larvae have the potential to migrate to the brain and cause very serious problems.

Cheryl, your argument for the very recent development of this aberrant behavior is compelling, and really good news. Habits can be hard to break; one or two freak incidents are far easier to deal with. Given today's cloudburst, I'd scatter the lime over a wider area of the yard; and I'd be sure to wear gloves when gardening/working with the soil in that area for quite a while. This is definitely one of those times when safe is better than sorry. But it truly is not cause for panic about your health; just careful cleaning/disinfecting and extra precautions for a while.

And BTW, if those thunderstorms aren't helping to relieve your oppressive heat, send the next one up here, okay? We've had a dry spell for several weeks now, and the new plantings are needing supplemental help. They keep forecasting thundershowers and they hit nearby, but not here.

Hi Judy,

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Last night I was totally exhausted such that it was all I could do to find the energy to finish the one response before falling into bed.

I'm still pretty upset, angry, and disgusted by the whole thing. On very rare occasion something of this caliber occurs out there after which I don't even want to deal with the raccoons at all for a week or so. Immediately after such things I usually consider closing down the buffet entirely, but then over time I soften up again. Other such incidents include the time Dennis bit me (because she was angry that I was holding the dog instead of feeding her) and the time members of the 'others' group attacked Widget dragging him around the yard while punching fang holes in him (he wasn't seriously injured).

Until I handle the situation back there, Widget will only be allowed in the front yard. This is more to prevent him from tracking anything into the house than out of concern for his health.

Yes, it is great that Ruth was here to advise me on cleanup. Ruth has been here since I wrote the very 1st post of the Heidi threads, the one asking how to get the raccoon (Heidi) to go away. It was she who 1st helped to diffuse my [almost irrational] fear of raccoons and rabies and who planted the seeds of the idea of viewing the raccoons from a different perspective. Ruth has an extensive background in animal control and has been a great help and wonderful asset since the very beginning.

Hi Sheri,

Thanks very much for the information. Unfortunately, while I'm sure this is the most thorough method for eliminating the hazards posed by the roundworm, most of these instructions lie outside of my ability and/or comfort level. If not impossible, they are infeasible.

Because of the amorphous nature of raccoon feces, once it went into the water, it immediately disintegrated becoming impossible to remove. This left me no real choice but to pour the water out (pooh included). There is no solid matter on the ground now, nothing to remove.

As for taking care to avoid getting it on me, as a result of our prior conversations regarding this menace, I was extremely careful to avoid getting anything on myself or my clothing - careful as in treating it like a hazmat spill.

When I say those instruction, though no doubt highly effective, are largely infeasible for me this is what I mean. It would likely take me all day to boil enough water to cover the entire area (a few pots at a time. I only have 2 one gallon pots, my largest) and carry it out to the far backyard (hopefully without spilling any on me) and I doubt that boiling water would be very effective on the ground for anything more than surface contamination. So given my available equipment (2 one gallon pots), the distance to the spill, and my back/knee injury, treating the spot with boiling water just isn't really doable.

The same is true of the propane torch. I don't have one of those 'flame thrower' propane torch things, so to even get started with that I would need to purchase one - and I'm broke. Also, although on the one hand I suspect it would be very effective in eliminating the eggs, I'm a bit afraid of the things. I would prefer not to use fire and compressed gas if it can be avoided, not to mention the fear of storing propane cylinders in my hot garage. Lastly, as I live in the city where I'm subject to more rules and ordinances than most of the people on here, I'm not even sure I'm permitted to use such a device. Burning (of leaves, cuttings, etc) is strictly prohibited, for instance, so I'm not sure where that device fits in the ordinances.

I do appreciate the info, especially that you went out of your way to look it up for me. It's just not a procedure I can readily follow. Sadly, I'm often challenged just getting the regular day to day things done around the house.

Ruth,

Oh, how I would love to send you some rain. I know that feeling of having a parched yard and then seeing that storms (i.e. relief) are on the way only to find that you have somehow been skipped over. A few times we even managed to get the storm complete with thunder, lightning, and high winds only to miss all but a handful of drops of the rain. Yesterday, however, we were pummeled almost all day long. Some areas, even very close to me, experienced flooding, so I was lucky. We did get enough rain a while though - and yet it is still cloudy out.

Not only did the rain not cool things down, if anything it seemed to make matters worse, I have no words to describe the very real and noticeable blanket of steam that is now our air. From mid afternoon yesterday until now the house has been fogged up like a frosty beer mug, and I can't even walk to the mailbox w/o removing my glasses. It's normal for glasses to fog up this time of year, but it's usually a bit of a gradual process. Now, the instant I open the door and the air outside hits my glasses, they are immediately covered in an opaque layer of dense fog through which I cannot even see basic shapes and colors.

You can definitely have the next T-storm.

I'm sure everyone, myself included, would like to get off the subject of pooh. I will try to get us moved to a new thread some time today where hopefully we can get back to the fun stuff.

Cheryl, I'm sorry you've hit such a rough spell at the raccoon feeding station. Hopefully getting rid of the pool for a time will solve the problem. I'm sure Dennis was just having a little fit of rage and acted without thinking. Kind of goes along with her behavior since she was young. Maybe Heidi will have a little talk with her. I'm sure she knows who caused the trouble. Sure hoping you don't have to end your long relationship with the raccoons on a negative note.

Susan

Thanks Susan,

I love that picture, BTW. Last year - or was it the year before - when Jerry and Echo were both out there standing upright to get treats and then at one point some of the others started to try out the behavior, the picture of so many raccoons standing upright at once was starting to remind me of that [much beloved] photo.

Not to worry. I won't be closing the buffet over this. Like I mentioned, I've gotten annoyed with them before, sometimes more annoyed than now, sometimes so frustrated that I swore to myself I would never go out there again, but I always do. It's like when you argue with family. No matter how angry you get or what you say at the moment, they are still your family and in short order you usually find that you miss them. The raccoons have become like part of my family, I guess.

Heck, more often than not, when those big things happen, the ones that make me swear I'm through with the whole matter, it's usually due to something Dennis does, not always, but more often than not, and as I mentioned just the other day, I think a lot of Dennis. She is one of my very favorites, even though she sometimes does bad things.

Dennis acts out sometimes when she gets angry. Like the time she bit me, when angry Dennis aims to do hurtful things, not dangerous, not deadly, just hurtful. I'm sure she knew what she was doing was disgusting and would upset me. She knows no one, raccoon or human, wants to deal with her pooh, but she has no way of knowing about the danger the roundworm poses for humans - any more than she knew that the bite she gave me years ago carried not only the intended painful pinch but also the risk of rabies. She does hurtful things when she is angry. That those things also pose real dangers for humans is something she can't be expected to know. That's not to make excuses for her behavior. I'm still very much disgusted with that, but the real gravity of the problems she causes is unintentional.

If I were to end my relationship with the raccoons, I would miss them greatly. I would also miss all of you who have shared this experience with me.

Very cute raccoon trash collector picture!
I am having a problem with some of my posts mysteriously disappearing either before or as I post.
I thought I had in my prior post (the one about boiling the water) that I had always seen a diluted bleach solution used for sanitizing and decontamination. And that the amount of boiling water that would be required to treat the back yard was impractical to say the least.
I don't understand why sometimes only a part of my post came thru. Guess that shows me why I should use the preview feature.

Sheri

I hope you don't mind if I tell you of the experience I had a couple weeks ago as I want opinions from those of you here that hold raccoons close to the heart. One evening an animal control lady rang the bell. When I answered the door the first thing she said was"somone told me you were feeding raccoons" My answer was "Oh?" She preceded to tell me she had just picked up a "baby"(don't know if it was a "baby" or a yearling)she said it came right up to her and reached ahold of her pole and never in all her years had she had one so unafraid. She was very nice and told me she knew I was feeding them out of the goodness of my heart but they needed to find thier own food and because she didn't know if this one was sick she would have to put it down. She was kinda putting it like I may have been to blame for all that. I have one that isn't very afraid of me but I sure don't incourage any interactions with her or those I put food behind the fence for. In fact I rarely stay out to see just who or how many are there. The one that isn't very afraid of me has been out as early(last week)as noon and has been coming in the yard and bird feeders for food. I caught a glimpse of her kit one day also. The reason I started putting food out back to begin with was to discourage their trips into the backyard. I really can't stop putting food out behind the fence now or she will not only be in my yard but every one elses and as we know there are many (like I use to be before my education from Ruth and you)that think only a sick raccoon comes out in daylight. So that is my story......Oh, only my two close neighbors know about my feeding them but I know they weren't the ones who said something. I am afraid a couple years ago I mentioned it to a neighbor across the street and tho I don't think she would have said anything I know her husband would.....he's aways got "attitude" (for want of a better discription for his personality.) I had asked the AC lady where she picked it up at and she hesitated before saying "about a block away". If he was out walking his dog he would be one to open his mouth about the feedings.

Judy

Hi Sheri,

You know, on rare occasion that happens to me, too. I read one of my posts and think, "but where did the sentence about 'xyz' go?" Sometimes a whole section seems to be missing. I can recall quite clearly typing the missing part. Usually, the remaining passages fail to make the intended point when read w/out the missing part.

I don't know for sure where these ghost passages go. I know for sure there is a keyboard shortcut that instantly cuts highlighted words and sentences. Sometimes I hit this series of keys by accident apparently in conjunction with some series of keys that highlight seemingly random parts of my work. I've watched as entire sections of a lengthy post are wiped right off the screen in front of my eyes while I'm typing. More than a few times I've had to retype all or most of a post for this very reason - because I hit the wrong keys by accident sending the whole thing (or most of it) into oblivion, poof. My theory about the missing passages is that they may have disappeared the same way (while I was typing the post) but without me noticing it at the time for some reason. I don't know if that's really where they go, but that's my theory. All of my other theories involve ghosts, UFO's, Leprechauns...

I really did appreciate you posting the information, BTW. And I was touched that you had taken the time to look it up. I was just explaining that, while it sounds good, for this particular situation it lies outside of that which I can reasonably do. But, I'm still glad that you posted it. There may well come a time in the future, near future, when something may happen say, on the patio (OMG, I do hope not!), and this may be just the information I need, or maybe it will be helpful to some of the others who read it. All information is useful. It's just a matter of when and for whom. Knowing some of these things before we need them often proves helpful in keeping us from doing the wrong thing on the spot.

Thanks again
(and lets pretend like we didn't see those missing sentences...Shhh!)

Judy,

By all means, please do post your questions, concerns, and experiences. This is an excellent venue for such discussions.

I have limited time right now but will try to get back later this evening to discuss this more, and, hopefully, Ruth and others will also add their input.

I think the AC officer's story sounds a little incredible. For starters, I would think it most unlikely that a baby raccoon would be out running around the neighborhood in daylight w/o its Mom - unless it were an orphan and even then I would expect it to be terrified of humans. As you know, I sit in the yard with the raccoons while they eat, and I have usually found the babies to be quite afraid of me even when they see the others like Dennis sitting right beside me day after day without harm.

Honestly, unless the kit was raised by humans, that sounds more to me like a story that was fabricated in hopes of convincing you to change your behavior.

Gotta go for now. Need to feed critters and try to cut some hedges before dark. Back later to finish. More to come...

Man is it awful out there. I didn't get any work done yet. I worked up a sweat just sitting at the buffet. It's just so humid, muggy. Ick.

I don't have much time - still, and I still need to get back to finish my response to the above post, but I just had to tell you what happened at the buffet today. Against tremendous odds, some of the problems seem to be getting fixed already, even the ones we humans thought 'unfixable'. I also got the answer to 'what will happen when Heidi gets back'. Man is she ever amazing!

When I went to the door and looked out, Dennis and her 3 kits were on the patio. Those rascals are getting pretty big now, still kits, but big kits. By the time I grabbed my stuff, put on my boots, and went outside, Dennis and her kits had disappeared - not the way it usually works. The only raccoons at the buffet at that time were Heidi and one of the yearlings. I did see Dennis' kits coming down the trunk of the pear tree (in the yard) a little later, but Dennis was not with them, nor was she at the buffet. It may just be a heck of a coincidence, but Dennis and her kits didn't come to the buffet (despite having been there since before I came out) until after Heidi left for the evening.

Heidi was early today. As previously mentioned since the kits came on the scene Heidi had been arriving late, generally just a short time before I leave. Heidi shifts her schedule in very predictable ways. It's the same every year. Once she delivers the kits, she wants to eat early in the afternoon, like 5 or 6PM or earlier. I've pretty much decided this is probably because nursing makes her so hungry she can't wait until 7 or 8 or 10, whatever time I was feeding her before the birth. Then, once the kits are weaned and ready to start going with her to learn things, she wants to eat later again, after dark, because she doesn't feel comfortable bringing the kits out of the forest in daylight. Thus she has been coming late for a while now, probably trying to give me the idea to shift my schedule (again) to fit hers. Today, however, she came early. She was waiting for me when I got out there, probably because after 2 days w/o the buffet, she was hungry and wanted to be sure to catch me.

So for a little while it was just me and Heidi and the yearling. Then Cissy showed up with little Screech.

Have you ever had or known one of those grandparents who is not like the fairy tale, not the sweet, doting type that spoils the grand kids? More the wise, all knowing, harsh, task master, Super Mom, the type you don't dare cross? Well, that's Granny Heidi.

So Cissy came down the fence followed by the screeching, screaming, trilling kit - and then Heidi sent the kit back over the fence and into the forest. She didn't chase the kit. She didn't even leave her dinner. She just turned around to face the kit and then told it in no uncertain terms to take that fuss back where he/she came from - and the kit turned around and went back up the fence and disappeared into the forest once more. (I should add that, at the time Heidi sent the kit away, Cissy was at my side gulping food as fast as raccoonly possible, apparently thinking she would need to leave soon, and the kit was still on the slope having just come down the fence. Heidi sent it back to the forest before it ever made it all the way to the buffet. When the kit went back into the forest, it was quiet over there on the other side of the fence. Cissy made no attempt to go after the kit as she normally does at such times. It really felt like Heidi was in charge of that transaction.)

A few minutes later the kit came back down the fence. This time it was much quieter. When it reached the buffet, however, the kit started fussing again, this time at the yearling that was also there. As previously discussed and as seen in the videos, the kit has serious issues with having other adult raccoons around and usually picks a fight with them. This time, however, as soon as the kit ran up to the yearling and started up, Heidi lifted her head from her dinner, and read the kit the riot act. I still don't speak or understand much raccoon, but I'm guessing Heidi told the kit to shut up and behave or leave - and the kit chose to shut up.

After that, the kit went over to its mother where it proceeded to act normal and to eat in almost total silence. The few times after that when the kit did speak it was only to express a short, soft trill - and then resume being silent.

Wow! I had not thought this possible, but this is exactly what went down at the buffet today. Is that Heidi amazing or what?

edited to add content, the portion in parenthesis at the end of the 4th paragraph from the bottom.

This message was edited Jul 15, 2010 1:19 AM

Can you imagine what a wonderful world this would be if everyone had a grandmother like Heidi? It is amazing the control she has over those at the buffet. If anything ever happens to her you may have to shut the diner down unless she passed on her intelligence and ability to one of her kids. Any signs of that yet?

Heidi IS amazing!

uhhh! my jaw dropped in amazement and wonder! What a Matriarch! that Heidi sure is something else.
Cheryl- when Heidi was "reading the riot act" to Screech, were her "words" &/or tone noticeably different from her usual conversational tone. Oh how I wish you had a good mic mounted somewhere out there so you could just flip a switch for quality sound.
You are really gathering some incredible facts about this raccoon clan. It would not surprise me at all if your "research" and observations of this Heidi clan contain much new info about the raccoon hierarchy, communication and behaviour.
I just love reading your raccoon tails...er uh..tales. ^_^

Sheri

Go, Heidi!! I knew she wouldn't tolerate that kit's incessant screaming, but even so I'm surprised at how quickly she was able to resolve the problem. And I'm sure we know why Dennis was noticeably absent in Heidi's presence; I'm very sure she's in mama Heidi's doghouse, and has been told so in no uncertain terms.

Judy, I'm so sorry you had that experience. I agree with Cheryl that the story as presented by the ACO doesn't make sense. Only a very young baby, who would not be out in daylight alone without mother, would behave the way she described; unless it really was sick. An older raccoon, unless exceptionally acclimated to humans, wouldn't behave that way if healthy either. Your feeding the raccoons over the fence definitely wouldn't cause behavior that friendly. It's certainly possible the raccoon was ill, and there could be many causes including distemper and other canine diseases as well as rabies; but animal control protocol in VA does require that raccoons behaving "abnormally" be euthanized and usually tested for rabies. It's very sad for the young creature, but is in no way your fault.

Sheri, there's no question that Cheryl is breaking entirely new ground in her observations of raccoon behavior and interaction. There simply are no studies of raccoons in the wild that come close to her depth of experience. In fact, such studies are rare of any species: Jane Goodall and Dian Fossey with primates are the closest comparisons that come to mind. For example, the prevailing expert opinion is that adult raccoons are solitary creatures, coming together only briefly for mating; and that chance encounters between adults at other times will often lead to violence. Cheryl has blown that one out of the water, hasn't she?

Speaking of which, can't resist sharing the cartoon of the day:

At 10AM I came in from my [mostly failed] efforts to trim the hedges. I had only been outside some 45min and much of that sitting down while the neighbor's kid did the work for me. Thank goodness he showed up when he did because I was having enormous difficulty reaching the top of the tall hedge. I came in at 10AM looking as though I had taken a shower with my clothes on. The heat indexed temperature outside at 10AM was 95F.

The heat indexed temp is the temperature equivalent when humidity is taken into account. The heat indexed temp is what it feels like. High humidity blocks the body's normal method of cooling itself through perspiration. You still perspire - a lot - but it just doesn't work to cool your body as it would in a drier environment - so your body makes even more sweat trying harder to cool itself. It's an endless, viscous circle that ends in heat stroke if you don't get to a cooler place.

I apologize for continuing to drone on about the weather, but you have to admit that 95 at 10AM is noteworthy. From now until late Sept, there really won't be a good time to work outside. The heat indexed temp will be in the 90's at sunrise and sunset leaving no time when it is cool enough out there to work safely much less comfortably. I'll just have to stick to the necessities only and split them up to do small chunks between 9-10AM and maybe 7-8PM. Even though it will be in the 90's at those times, they will still be the coolest hours of the day. Right now we are having daily 'excessive heat' warnings from the national weather service. These warnings are issued when the heat indexed temp is expected to exceed 105F. Most days the warnings run from 11AM to 8PM. Note that sunset is around 8:30PM right now, so the warnings for temps exceeding 105F are effective until just 30min short of sunset. Ouch. (In the interest of fairness, in winter you guys can tell me about the ice and snow.)

Sounds bad. Glad you got some help with the work. It is just dangerous when the heat index gets that high. Sat. we are forcasted to be 105-107 and I plan on spending as little time outside as possible. From now until it starts to cool a little in the fall, I'll do only what's really necessary.

Glad to hear Heidi is handling her family problems in her usual wise way. Funny that even the little nutty one is smart enough to listen to her.

Be careful in that heat!

Hi Susan,

I can relate. I think maybe you should just stay indoors Sat and ride it out. Usually, I just don't go out there at all in July & Aug. I look at the garden through the window and say, "You're on your own now. Good luck." Usually, I have a guy who keeps my front and side lawn manicured, beds and sidewalks edged, and trees and hedges pruned. No matter how hot it gets out there I am required by both city ordinance and HOA rules to keep up the appearance of that portion of the house and yard that are visible to the street.

Now that I am unemployed, I'm having to cut back to necessities only which means no landscaper. Through the end of May, I was actually enjoying my early morning and sometimes late afternoon yard work. I was enjoying the fresh air, sunshine, exercise, and sense of accomplishment. It was hot but not unduly so, but now through early Sept doing anything outside will be pretty painful, I suspect. Thank goodness for that riding lawnmower - and the kindness of the neighbor's kid.

I, too, am keeping it to the absolute minimum now. Some days even sitting out back at the buffet makes me sweat.

Changing my name to DreamOfSeptember

Because this thread is getting too long now to load easily especially for those on dial up, I am moving us to a new thread here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1115779/


We will continue or discussions and stories on the new thread. Please be sure to 'watch' the new thread. We don't want anyone to get lost or left behind.

Hope to see you there!

Cheryl... we hit heat index of 100 the other day... though that was at 4pm. but HOT is HOT. walking up the hill to the clubhouse, ,it's all asphalt... it was like being in an oven... though that walk only takes me about 3 min.. .it was still quite uncomfortable... that was the night we got about 7 inches of rain. did cool of a bit for yesterday.. .it was still mid-80's but lower humidity and dew pts. i live by that dew pt number... and it was only 58 which was fabulous.

getting back into the streambath for today and the weekend though... great.... **rolls eyes**

end of the weather update.....

With DH not here... i've been feeding the critter at night... figured out how to keep her out of the BOSS squirrel feeder... leave her a nice bowl of dog/cat food and a bowl of water... I can usually hear her crunching in the middle of the night... between 3-4am if the windows are open. I even put the bird bath where she can get to it.. .the first night, i peeked out the window and saw her standing with her paws on the edge and drinking from it [the birds have never used it] but lately i think she's just using the bowl i leave... there is always dirt in it in the morning.... some times she spills it, but the last 2 nights she has not. DH will be back on Sunday... so i will have to stop while he is here.

I still bring in the Hummer feeder... as i think that is still attracting to her. OH.. i left 5 marshmallows out last night... they too were all gone ... 3 in with the kibble and 2 under the squirrel feeder... so not sure if she ate all 5, or if the squirrels nabbed the front 2... or even a different critter during the night.

Check the post above yours for link to a new thread, and join us there! And good for you for sneaking in some feedings while hubby is away. While hubby's away, the raccoons will play...