has anybody tried Pyrethrin spray to controll stinkbugs.

You're welcome, dividedsky. And I'm right there w/ya on squashing those squash bugs! Boy, just think, if we all could find some way to use those bugs in a positive manner we'd all be rich!

Susan, milky spore is one of the Bacillus pathogens (Bacillus popilliae) that kills the J-beetle grubs. Unfortunately it can take 2 to 4 years to really see results from it. Also, if your neighbors have large areas of grass/fields and don't use it then it's kind of hopeless (and a waste of moola) because all their beetles will just end up flying over to your place anyway.

Back to squash and bugs, etc, those of you with squash vine borers (not the same as squash bugs) may want to try growing butternut squash and or cheese pumpkins. Those have solid stems, unlike other squashes, and the vine borers will leave them alone. It's certainly not the same as summer squash but at least you can end up with a harvest.

Shoe (off to tie up tomatoes, string up a trellis for butterbeans, and hopefully pot up some rooted gardenia plants) Happy Day, All!

My goodness, lots of post since I started typing that last response of mine.

Carminator, thanks for posting your words. I've watched you and your progress since you've joined DG. You're doing great! Keep up the good work. (Hope that doesn't sound patronizing.)

Susan, no, milky spore has no effect on earthworms, nor does it affect other critters (birds, for example).

I gotta get moving, folks. Enjoy the day!
Shoe

Thanks shoe. We are just getting japanese beetles in the area. So the info is good to know.

Horseshoe thank you so much for all your advice, I know you have a lot of experience and I am always looking at your posts to see what good info I can get from them. I think that thanks to experinced gardeners like you and others I have been able to accomplish a lot this year and I am very happy and satisfied with my garden.

I still remember about 5 years ago starting some tomatoes and peppers and just giving up after the tomatoes got BER, I never thought it would be temporary and I just ripped them off and decided not to try to grow anything again, until for whatever reason I started reading gardening books again and then found this wonderful site.

You are acsolutely right about the butternut squash and such, I grew some tromboncino squash in the same raise bed where I had the summer yellow squash that I had to rip off and even though the summer squash got completely attacked by the squah bug the tromboncino only got minimal damage and I was able to collect 2 big tromboncinos. I love them because they climb also so they don't need as much space as the regular summer one.

You are so right about DG being an incredible source of info.

Another good source is Howard Garrett, aka The Dirt Doctor (http://www.dirtdoctor.com ). He's a stickler for no poisons or synthetic fertilizers, ever, and sometimes he can be a little adamant about it. But when I have a new gardening problem, he is the first place I look. He's also very good at explaining about healthy soil (and how to get it), and having things in balance so that nature can do its job.

Carminator, I don't know why it would take you years to get your soil in good shape. That all depends on what you have to start with. My lot was scraped down to caliche by developers, and even bermuda grass wouldn't grow. it did take years to rebuild the topsoil. But you know, I also garden over at my parents' house, 2 miles away, and their soil was in much better shape to start with. Even now, I can plant something here and then plant the same thing over there, and theirs will outgrow mine. Unless you just have terrible soil, you should see results within a year. 3 years and watch out. :)

Just a caution. The milky spore disease that works so well for Japanese beetles will NOT work if, like me, you live in the South and have June bugs/grubs rather than J-beetles. The two are closely related, but they're not identical, and southern June bugs aren't susceptible to milky spore. For June bug grubs, the best treatment is to use beneficial nematodes. They are a bit pricey. But we think they are worth it, because besides the grubs, they also work for fire ants, fleas, ticks, and to some degree termites, all without harming earthworms or other beneficials. Hey, the reason I'm on this forum is that I'm looking for an organic treatment for my first case of root-knot nematodes. Some people think beneficial nematodes will help with those as well.

This message was edited Jul 13, 2010 7:57 PM

Carminator, thank you for the thank you! And I'm tickled you got to try trombocino, isn't that a fun plant to grow? I hope you got to eat some, too.

PBtxs, some folks will plant cereal rye to nematodes, you may want to try that. However, it takes a while for the roots to break down/decay in cool spring temperatures so if you are hoping for a early spring planting that might create a problem. I've also heard that dried molasses shows great results combating nematodes. (I think I'm lucky I can't speak from personal experience regarding nematodes, my soil is clay and I don't have them here.)

Shoe

I've already lost all of my zuchinni and yellow squash to a combination of squash bugs and squash vine borers. I thought there was hope for the butternut squash I had planted after reading on this forum that the borers wouldn't be a problem because the vines were too hard for them. However...I've cut several borers out of my vines, injected the vines with BT and still keep finding borers! (I just HATE those nasty little things!) I'm still doing what I can to keep them going....

This message was edited Jul 14, 2010 11:52 AM

Thank you Pbtx I just went ahead and purchased the "Dirt Doctor" book from amazon today, I was looking at his site and I really like it so I am sure this will help a lot as well.

Yes I loved the tromboncino, I even saved some seeds and I am growing some even right now, they are still tiny but I can already see at least 3 coming out from one vine and I have about 3 vines growing, I like the fact that you can either use it green as a summer squash or let it mature and then use it as a winter squash. I ate the 2 that I picked and they were delicious.

Reading one of your previous posts got me thinking why is it that there are so many bugs lurking around, well I think I know the answer, by back fence backs out to an area that is a drainage buffer, so my back fence backs to it instead of backing to my neighbors yard, the place is a jungle, brambles, tall weeds you name it, it is even taller than me, I am wondering if all this nasty bugs are just overwintering there and just moving into my veggies when it gets hot enough.

Yesterday I spend all day killing bad bug eggs that were on my tromboncino squash leaves and also trying to kill the leaf footed bugs that were lurking around I got about 10 or more but the pesky things fly and they are just hard to grab.

All I can venture to say is "wow."

I've read from the beginning to the end here, and can actually see this discussion from everyone's respective point of view. And, I respect those points of view as being your own...

As we grow our gardens, and grow in our knowledge, patience, and tolerance for the elements, the predators, and each other, I see Dave's Garden continue to flourish and produce more goodness than anything else. And, as a relative newbie (once removed from being an UBERnewbie), I have learned to read through the responses, sift through the wheat and chaff, and make conscientious, albeit personal, decisions about the kind of gardener I choose to be.

On any given day, I seek to fight the predator battle with my own hands and the assistance of any NATO (non-agressive terminator organism) allies available, and hope to win. However, if the tides (winds, rains, sunshine, etc.) turn, and the predators seem to be gaining territory, I may choose to exercise my option to pull out a big gun (or two) to assist me (and the alliance) in that battle. My bottom line is to exercise this option as responsibly as I can, and keep my allies as safe as possible in the process.

Does this make me an "organic" grower? A "non-organic" grower?

Well, when I look out over the garden and the sun is in what I call "the golden time of day," if I need to duck to avoid being buzzed by a stinkbug or two that I didn't manage to eradicate, or a huge bumblebee flitting from flower to flower in a zig-zag pollination dance, I simply smile and thank God for His creation, and the part I've been allowed to experience of it.

And, I call myself a gardener...

Cheers to the organic growers...
Cheers to the non-organic growers...
Cheers to Dave's Garden...

carminator - I haven't grown tromboncino and don't recall hearing anyone talk about eating them in this area. What are they like to grow and what do they taste like.

They are very nice, some can grow huge but mine were long but not huge. What I like about them is how you can either use them as a summer squash or winter one if you leave them in the vine a little longer for them to mature. I only had 2 fruits from one vine, but I am not complaining. I left mine in the vine to mature because I wanted to save seed, they tasted a little I think like butternut squash. I grow in raise beds and for me they take a lot less space that regular summer squash since this climbs on my trellis. Here's apicture of one of the ones I grew.

One 'a these days, I'm gonna have myself a helper...matter of fact, I'm about to get TWO: a 4-yr-old, and a 6-yr-old!

Shoe, thanks for the tip. I have molasses here and I can sure put some of that out there.

Are nematodes more endemic to non-clay soil? I don't know much about them, but we have very heavy alkaline clay, so that may be why I've never had them before. In this case, it's a brug which has been in a big pot for the last 2 years, with no roots exposed. I just put it in the ground a few days ago, and with all the rain and extra water, the top of the root ball became exposed. It's really icky-looking. :( I'm hoping that I saw it and got the plant out in time before they had a chance to move through the bed and get to my other big brug.

carminator, what a wondrous pic! That's super special! Oh yeh, and the tromboncino is special, too! I love it!

Susan, if you click my name and go to my member page there is an article I wrote for Dave when he first opened gardens.com (geared towards "newbie" gardeners) which has a few pics and info regarding tromboncino. (Although I'm not an official DG Article Editor it's made it's way into the line up a time or two and I'm pleased to be able to offer the gift.)

pbtx, yes, nematodes tend to more more freely in sand/loose soil moreso than in hard/clay soils. They also certainly are transported in containers also, oftentimes escaping the potted plants and moving into the soil around them. Your heavy clay may keep them at bay and/or restrict them to a small area. Brugs, sheesh, when I grew them it seemed they constantly attracted nearly every bug/pest you could name. I like Brugs but finally got away from them, being a low-maintenance kind of guy who hates spraying for this and that all the time.)

Shoe

At my temporary abode once I move out. The youngest is my Goddaughter. I hear she's the pepper that'll sneak up on you, and the one to watch!

Sounds like they'll liven things up for you, for sure!

Thanks for the info. Shoe - I'll take a look at your article.

Thank you Shoe she is my little garden helper, loves to eat the produce and help mama in the garden.
Shoe I just have a quick question, I am growing Silver queen corn and I think some of the ears are ready but how can I be sure? The silk is turning dark brown in some of them.

C,
Do like I do in the market. Just peel the silk apart a bit on one ear and see if the kernels have made it all the way to the end and filled in. That should give you an indication of your harvest timeframe.

Gg/Linda, congrats on your two new "farm hands"! That'll sure liven things up, won't it!

And yes, Carminator, you can do as GG says and peel back the tips on a couple ears and take a peek; pull the husks back as tight as you can though if not ripe or it'll attract bugs. Also you can just feel the ends of the ears as you go down your rows, if they feel rounded they'll be filled out, if they still feel pointed on the end they'll need more time. And of course the silks will need to be brown and dry, too.

Shoe (off to set out some cowpea plants now that we've had rain to soften up this dry soil around here!)

Shoe,
You don't know how much I was holding my breath before I hit that send button! Thanks for the confirm! And so happy to be a step further away from the UBERnewbie category!

Now, I'm heading toward the "newbie" group! ^^_^^^^_^^ (Me and Carmen doing the Silver Queen stomp!)

pbtxlady, the book came and I am reading it, really good, thank you so much for telling me about it. One thing that he recomends for stinkbugs and hard to get pests is sabadilla dust.

C,
Check out this link that discusses sabadilla dust. Don't look for any...

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/ipm/msg0700143424707.html

Oh crap! sorry to use a bad word but boy I really thought this would work. Thanks Linda. Still a really good book nonetheless. I am really thinking about using a shop vac and see if it will work, the leaf footed bugs I have do fly and it gets tough to catch. I do have less since I have removed the problem plants but still.

C,
The best we can do is try to kill as many of those little "Black, Bump-Butted Nymphs" as we can, when we first discover them. Then, they don't grow up to be Leaf-Footed Stinkbugs. Also, I discovered that stinkbugs seem to have one-track minds, like cabbage loopers. I had a total Stinkbug infestation on one side of the yard where they were happily occupied dessimating my tomatoes. But, they never ventured to the exact opposite side of my yard where I had 5 more tomato vines growing. Not one Stinkbug over there, all summer. So, a possible trap crop might be in order, too.

Also, I've been thinking about putting a hoop over the vines and covering it with tulle after the blooms appear. If the Stinkbugs can't land on a tomato, they can't destroy a tomato...Or, how about we devise some sort of tomato cover they can't pierce, like a nylon stocking. How about a tomato "booty?"

Carminator1,

I've been toying around with using a potpourri/sachet bag over the tomatoes next season to see if it will stop them from piercing the fruit. They can dance all over the plant, if they want to. But, as long as they can't pierce a tomato, they can't ruin a tomato!

Here's what I'm referring to.

You know what Linda your idea might work, I guess its time to go to the Hobyloby and find some fabric to see. Right now my tomato plants are small but I imagine maybe in Sep time frame they will start producing.

C,
If you try this, use the tightest mesh you can find, and close it off with a rubber band. I don't know how fine the needle-nose is on a Stinkbug, but if you wrap one or two tomatoes, we'll sure find out.

Also, make the bag big enough to accommodate the tomato growth. Or start small and have some bigger ones ready for a change-out. This might even work to keep the nymphs in check, too. Any that slip into the bag can certainly be squished, then!

Then, all we have to do is chase down Harry Hornworm!