Heidi Chronicles - Just Hanging Out Until Spring

This is exciting! I'll bet it won't be long before they'll let you pet them, but you're smart to gain their trust first--just like with the raccoons.

Susan,

Thanks for the link and the info. So someone did already think of it. Cute pic of Pedro sleeping by the cats - even if they didn't save room in the bed for him this time.

KyWoods,

It is exciting, isn't it. Wait until you hear the news for today. My life just takes so many twists and turns - I'm about to get dizzy. About waiting to pet them, I think it is best to let them experience being around me and finding that nothing happens to them. I'm hoping in time they will relax - and then I'll touch them.

But wait until you hear...

Terese,

You sound just like me - not the cat allergies, the spoiling. As you can see, any animal that spends time around me will end up spoiled. I'm just as bad with kids, too.

I do have something to tell you, but don't wait for me. I'm pooped right now and have to rest a bit 1st. On a related note, I didn't do my responses yesterday because I worked 11hrs straight after 4hrs sleep. Then I came home and crashed. Today wasn't quite as bad, but I think I'm still getting over yesterday. Getting too old to snap back quickly, I guess. ; )

Back soon...

On the edge of my seat...

Ok, I'm finally back. When I 1st mentioned what happened tonight, I was planning to tell you right away, but then I realized I was just too tired. Sorry about that. Just had to stop for a nap. So without further interruption, here we go...

From time to time I've probably alluded to the lady across the street who knows everything and has her hands in everything. When she walks her dog, she stops at every house to talk - but not all on the same day and certainly not consecutively. Although I've tried to keep an open mind, there is just something about her that gets my fur up and ruffled a bit. Some long stifled inner animal soul within me reacts to her like the dog whose hair stands on end as he crouches, fangs bared at what appears to be a perfectly friendly person, yet the dog seems to know better.

Tonight as every night recently, I pulled into the driveway, turned off the engine, and opened the door to hear "meow" as Kitty came toward me already 1/2 way along the walkway. After taking Widget out for his walk on which, as usual she followed along, I returned to feed her as has become our nightly ritual.

Looking at the stack of boxes the UPS driver had left on the porch, I figured as much as I wanted to feed Kitty right away, it would be best to move the boxes inside 1st so as not to frighten the kittens off when I did so later and while they were eating. The thing I loosely refer to as a porch is tiny and barely adequate to keep the rain off my head while I look for the key to unlock the door. It also has a small spot to one side, and inner corner if you will, that is perfect in both size and protection to house packages out of view of passersby and away from rain while I'm away.

The packages were beside the door and maybe a foot or so away. To move them inside as quickly and efficiently as possible, I stood with the door slightly ajar and me with one foot just in front of the open door and the other beside the boxes. As I was in the process of lifting boxes and putting them inside the door, having just placed one box inside and now reached for the next, I turned back to the door 2nd package in hand to find Kitty now inside the house, only her tail sticking back through the open door. Widget was waiting there on the rug in the foyer and now Kitty was standing on the edge of the rug looking about the room as though in awe, perhaps of all the things to climb, investigate, and play with and maybe all the interesting nooks and crannies that might make good homes for her and her kittens. "Oops. Kitty, no", I reached inside, lifted Kitty by her mid section and relocated her back onto the porch. Putting the last box inside, I closed the door, and moved on to feeding.

A few minutes later as Kitty was sitting on the bench beside me eating, and I was stroking her back, the aforementioned neighbor came into focus on the sidewalk in front of us where she was walking by with her dog. Uh, oh, this was the moment I had dreaded. There are many reasons why I probably shouldn't feed Kitty at the front door, but I had known all along the risk of being seen by her was the major reason.

still typing, posting so, if anyone is waiting, they can read sections as I type others.

Oh good grief, I do detest nosy neighbors. The good news is that you're allowed to have two animals, and the nosy parker can kindly stay out of your business...

Directly in front of the door but still on the sidewalk, the dreaded Gladys Kravitz stopped and looked at me her eyes wide like saucers. "OMG, is that the wild cat?!!!" she crowed. Momentarily taken aback by her wording and demeanor, I hesitated looking for words before, still stroking Kitty who was eating calmly on the bench beside me.

"Well, she's a stray if that's what you mean" I answered still hesitant.

"She comes to you?" she continued now walking across the brief section of front lawn towards us.

The neighbor stopped maybe 15ft from us. Kitty sat quietly eating throughout the ensuing conversation. At some point I mentioned picking Kitty up. "You can pick her up?" she queried in apparent astonishment her eyes growing wider and larger still as though she had just been told the most impossible thing.

"Gladys" went on to say that she cannot get anywhere near Kitty. No one can. To my statement that someone must have tossed Kitty here she countered, "That cat is totally wild, at least a generation away from any human contact. She has never been a pet. She is very young, only 6mo or so old and has been running about the community since she was a kitten." She went on to say that she and a lady 2 houses down had been feeding Kitty since she was little, but that no one could catch her much less touch her or pick her up.

"Really?" I said still gently stroking the cat calmly nestled against my leg.

At this point, I should add that as annoying as 'Ms Kravitz' can be, she knows everything. I mean really. If you ever want the scoop on anything in the area, well, that's the one time you do want to run across 'Gladys' because she knows it and she will gladly tell it to you if you just steer the conversation that way. So as incredible as some of what the nosy neighbor was saying seemed, I had to give it some degree of credibility just because I had learned much from her in the past and had yet to find her wrong about any community gossip.

The neighbor went on to say that while she knew Kitty had kittens she had never been able to get close enough to see them except through the window. (You know, that proverbial and classic window through which Ms Kravitz always peeked, Right? I've long suspected she was monitoring my property through a similar window.) I mentioned that the little black one finally got up on the bench beside me to eat last night. She said that was the one she had always seen running for its life anytime she came around and that she had always felt so sad for the little thing being so frightened that way.

Haven't I read somewhere that cats are very good judges of people, whose friend, whose foe? I could understand why Kitty kept her distance from this woman and taught her kittens to do the same. To be honest, I usually try to avoid her myself and cringe at moments such as this when I find myself trapped in the front yard and her walking by with that dog she uses as a diversion for gathering neighborhood information.

At some point in the conversation, the neighbor said, "You really must have some kind of special touch with animals." She actually sounded sincere and a bit bewildered.

She went on to tell me that, "good news", she has arranged for some local animal group to come on Monday to pick up Kitty and her kittens...

Before she could continue, I countered with, "I'm planning to adopt Kitty. I have an apt to take her to the vet."

In a nutshell, 'Gladys' said that these people, this animal control group, are coming on Monday to trap Kitty and the kittens. They will vet check them, spay and neuter them as appropriate, give them their shots, tag them for tracking purposes, etc and then return them back here to live. She said it's some kind of new program in the surrounding area for dealing with the abundance of feral cats. Instead of taking these cats out of the community they will sterilize them to prevent further growth of the feral community and will leave them here as a deterrent of sorts to other ferals coming into the area.

I told her that I had plans to adopt Kitty, that to me, while she may be semi-feral, she isn't 'wild'. I told her I have an appointment to take Kitty for spaying and a full vet workup and that, had things not changed suddenly as late as yesterday afternoon, Kitty would already be recuperating from said surgery in my garage.

In addition to being the local busy-body, 'Gladys' is apparently also a control freak. She has to run everything, yet another reason why I avoid her at all cost. For instance, while not an actual part of the HOA - as that would require work - she reports to them regularly, and if you were to meet her on the sidewalk you might well think her the HOA president as she has a hand in everything that happens here.

Now it seems she not only owns the community but also the feral cats. For reasons that alluded me, she actually stood there arguing with me. She really wants this thing she has planned for the cats to go forward as planned. Why - other than her need to control everything - who knows, but the more I insisted that I am going to take care of Kitty, the more she insisted that this group is going to do "all that" and "I won't need to do anything" and "it won't cost me anything". The more I resisted, the more upset she became.

I told her that I've grown attached to Kitty, and the idea of her being trapped by strangers concerns me especially since I can handle her, and thus it doesn't seem necessary. It also bothers me that, treating her as a true feral, they will probably release her the day after her surgery w/o pain meds. This, the vets all told me, is the normal way of handling the situation, and when necessary, I think it's a good plan. Honestly, it may even be what I end up having to do if Kitty won't cooperate with my plans for aftercare, but since I can handle her somewhat, I'd sure like to try to keep her inside where her discomfort can be mitigated by medication. I don't want to suffer unnecessarily. Why would I want her to?

So, it seems, the race is on. I have an appointment to take Kitty for treatment Monday morning. The animal group's trappers are scheduled to show up here some time on Monday to set up traps for Kitty and her kittens.

Fascinating; but I'm puzzled. If Kitty truly has been at large in the neighborhood since she was a kitten, she should be much wilder. Perhaps she's overheard gossip about the diner from the raccoons... And yes, if I were a cat I'd run for my life around that neighbor also. Perhaps even as a human...

Glad you made plans for Kitty before animal control comes in; that would be so much more stressful for her, and of course you would have no legal claim on her.

Does that mean the kittens will be released in the neighborhood as well? What a waste; with the work you've put in, they can easily be tamed for adoption. Needless to say, I'd much prefer to see you catch the kittens. Monday will be a busy day in the 'hood.

Hi Ruth,

I hadn't expected to see you this early. It's an unexpected surprise. Since all this just happened a few hours ago and I've spent most of the time since napping, I'm still trying to digest it all. I had planned for now to leave Kitty outside after she recovers from surgery and continue feeding her and interacting with her as I do now, at least for a while. At some point in the future, perhaps the near future, I might reevaluate the situation and bring her inside, after all, in the beginning I hadn't planned on getting a cat of any kind, and look how far we've come since then.

If Gladys and the other neighbor have been feeding Kitty, too, then I guess it really is there business. I don't own Kitty any more than they do. Who owns Kitty? Who has the right to do what here?

If I continue my original plans, I will take 'possession' of Kitty before the animal control folks get here assuming Gladys doesn't intercede and get them here sooner. I plan to put Kitty in the garage on Sunday night in preparation for her surgery. If they put out traps on Monday, even very early Monday morning, Kitty will already be safely tucked away inside.

But if I put Kitty back outside after she heals from her surgery, won't she likely still go back to the other houses where she is accustomed to finding food? Or, with the kittens gone, no longer needing to care for them, and herself calmed by the effects of the surgery and well fed here, will she be more likely to stay here. If she continues to go to Glady's house, I don't know. For some reason that bothers me. Perhaps because she won't be 'mine'. Perhaps because Gladys may still co-own her and make decisions for her - but then again Gladys can't actually catch her...

I should add that Gladys feeds Kitty "Alley Cat" food. I've fed that to the raccoons a few times. They will eat it but don't like it. It's one of the ones that provokes Her Highness Heidi to throw her bowl in the air and toss food everywhere as an editorial comment. Gladys says she had an idea that someone else was feeding Kitty lately because Kitty, who goes to her house in the mornings, had begun to take a bite of her food and then go get the kittens to eat rather than eating it herself. As you know, I've been feeding Kitty and the kittens 1st Purina Cat Chow and Purina One and more recently Iams along with lots of chicken and chicken carcasses, yogurt, cottage cheese, and Fancy Feast which is essentially tuna. You would think she when well fed she would find less and less need to go over there for Alley Cat. Lately, Kitty and the kittens eat here every night and even some mornings. (Oh, BTW, tonight when I got home, the black kitten, who is becoming ever more comfortable around me, was out in the open walking around near but a little distance away as I went out to pick up the mail and walk Widget before feeding them. This is a 1st for him as until now both kittens have always been completely hidden until the food came out and Kitty called them to eat.)

Or should I just let Gladys do what she does best and take care of things her way. She insists the cats "will be back" anyhow, and I can go on feeding Kitty and interacting her just like before. As she says, "it won't cost me anything" and "I won't have to do anything". I am busy. Not having to run to and from the vet's office and deal with a possibly unhappy cat would be easier for me. Isn't that what I said I wanted? And if she is coming back anyhow, what do I care? Am I, by resisting, just trying to control things, too?

Still, it doesn't feel right somehow - and, to be honest, Gladys trying to run everything, cats included, annoys me. I let her have the HOA. I draw the line at animals. Now she's on my territory. On a separate note, God forbid Gladys should ever find out about the raccoons. I have always shuddered at that thought. Long live that 6ft privacy fence, the only thing, I assure you, that stands between Gladys and the buffet. Were it not for that wooden veil through which she, thankfully, cannot see, the inner working of the buffet would all be part of Gladys's knowledge and daily rounds. If she only knew...pray she never does.

But back to the problem at hand, even though the outcome would presumably be the same in terms of my ability to feed her and interact with her, it somehow bothers me the difference between a microchip that says she's my pet and a tag that says she's wildlife under control of and subject to tracking by the city. And darn it all, bottom line, I don't want to share her with Gladys.

Ruth,

I guess I could trap the kittens over the weekend and take them to the SPCA before the other group gets here. I don't see much chance now, with Gladys in the middle of things, for me to both get them to the shelter for possible adoption and continue my work with them. It looks like an either or now. On Monday, either the become wards of the city in which case I can continue to feed them but can't get them adopted, or I get them out ahead of the mess which means I can't continue to work with them, but they will have the hope of adoption. The SPCA said their people would work with the kittens to try to tame them and that they have experience in doing so. The kittens would still have the benefit of the work I've already done.

As for what Gladys said about Kitty. I'm pretty confused, too. I have a very hard time seeing her behavior as totally wild. I really think if she were wild it should, at the very least, have taken me considerably longer to reach the point where I could touch her much less pick her up. Look how long, for instance, I have been dealing with the kittens now having only in the last day or so reached the point where the one will eat beside me on the bench - but I still can't touch him, and that's with the benefit of their mom demonstrating that she is not afraid of me. You would think Kitty, were she totally wild, would have been ever more difficult to get close to considering she is older and lacks the benefit of a role model who trusts me.

I don't know. It is confusing. Gladys is usually right, but that doesn't mean there can't be exceptions. I have to admit that I have great difficulty reconciling what Gladys said about Kitty's background with what I see of Kitty's behavior. To me Kitty shows very definite signs of having known human contact and love at some point in her life if only as a kitten maybe. In my opinion she also shows signs of having been on her own, more or less, in the wild for some time now and of having learned to fear and avoid humans. She seems, therefore, to have stored a mixed set of messages: (1) Humans can be good and caring and will feed you and (2) Humans can be mean and scary and don't want you around, so you have to protect yourself and your babies from them.

Glad it is, as my sister says, Friday eve. Glad I have the weekend to mull this over. I'm leaning toward intervention and am open to all viewpoints and suggestions. Now is the time to influence me! Know, however, that while Gladys will likely be annoyed if I take one cat out of the mix, if I 'ruin' all of her plans by removing all of the cats before her folks get here, she will likely be livid - and I do have to live across the street from her. And, as previously mentioned, she does have influence with the HOA and probably isn't unwilling to use it.

That said, while I probably come across on these pages as, well, wimpy, that would be a false impression. I am reasonable to a fault and malleable when it doesn't matter to me, but as others have been known to say of me in the past "a force to be reckoned with" when it does matter. Basically, I live by the "choose your battles wisely" philosophy. I don't have the time or energy or even the desire to fight them all. If it isn't a big deal to me, and it matter to you, I'm willing to bend. Some people mistake that for wimpiness, but I have been known to stand firm in the face of certain catastrophe when something really matters to me.

I'll freely give almost anything but can be amazingly stubborn and unwilling to yield to attempts to force me to do anything. I would have a much better and easier job right now were it not for this one tendency to stand firm when I really care about something and regardless of the consequences.

As a slightly different example of my total non-wimpiness when it matters [to me], I once returned a used car. I don't know how things are where you live, but in SC once you drive a used car off the property, you own it and have no recourse (unless you got some kind of written agreement to the contrary which I didn't). The car broke down on the way home. The seller said, "Too bad." The state's attorney general's office and dept of consumer affairs, among others, said, "sorry, you have no grounds here. refer to rules on used cars." Refusing to hear any of this I pursued what I believed was right. I kept my cool, but remained steadfast in my insistence that the seller fix the car. In the end, the seller took the car back and returned every dime of my money including all of those nonsense sales charges. I'm rather proud of this accomplishment under the circumstances and considering that I had no legal grounds for recovery.

Another time I took on a dealership when I bought a new car. I didn't have one of those clauses or contracts saying they would cover rental cars while my car was being repaired. Honestly, it was my 1st new car, and I didn't know about these things, but I did know that it made no sense that I should be both paying for a new car and paying for a rental car while they were fixing their mistakes. The car should have come off the assembly line in good working condition. Failing that, they should have been eager both to fix their mistakes and to take care of my rental car, and that's what I insisted on. I called them every day. The manager said, "Ms X, I don't know what I can do for you." and I said, "You can get me a rental car." Same conversation every day. One day he said, "Ok, FINE!" I took my car in for the repairs, and the dealer provided the rental car. I'm proud of that one, too. And, afterward, I changed car companies (brands) since the mfg had failed to react to my pleas for assistance in the matter.

There are other such 'good' examples along with others where I stood my ground on things even knowing I would pay a high price. But, getting back to the subject at hand, I have a few days to decide what to do and am open to influence while making the decision. I am not unwilling to act but must take into consideration that doing so might be painful and even ill advised (not that the latter always keeps me from acting - as previously explained).

Thoughts?

The bottom line, Cheryl, is that Kitty is bonding with you...and clearly isn't with Gladys. Yes, she's an opportunist with kittens to feed and teach, so she'll show them how to cadge the neighborhood for junk food; but Alley Cat is a bad joke, and Gladys clearly seems no more trustworthy to Kitty than she does to you.

Unless money is the object, and all you've said indicates that it is not, just look at it from Kitty's point of view. Scenario one: complete strangers in uniform with squawky radios come in with their equipment and trap her and the babies. She watches the babies being caught, perhaps, feels their fear and can do nothing to help them. Then she's in the back of a big noisy van, maybe with dogs and/or wildlife also on board, and is transported to a scary smelly vet's office. There she's frightened, given an injection by strangers, and awakens in a cage groggy, disoriented and at best uncomfortable. The uniformed strangers come again and soon she's back in the neighborhood, but feels weak and disoriented. With luck, she finds the kittens; but they also have bald places and smell like that strange place that made her feel weak. She doesn't really feel strong enough to look out for herself, but also has to worry about the babies.

[As you know, I used to be one of those uniformed strangers with the squawky radios. Most animal control officers these days are caring souls, with all the inevitable variance among human beings. But I was always painfully aware of the stress I couldn't help causing to the animals I was trying to help. Frightened animals do not need to travel with other species in the same vehicle, no matter how safely and separately confined; but the time, budget, and personnel constraints made it necessary. We were also responsible for ridding the city's streets of roadkill; transporting live animals in the same vehicle with dead ones was simply barbaric, but we had no choice. Animal control plays an absolutely vital function in rescuing stray and wild animals, and taking on the tasks that no one else can or will do; but the capture experience is not one that any animal will remember fondly, even with the kindest and most caring officer.]

Scenario two: the lady who has been feeding wonderful stuff to Kitty and her babies picks her up and puts her in a crate in the garage. Being confined is scary, but the lady talks to her and tells her it's okay; and it's dark and not cold and not too scary, and eventually she settles down and rests. In the morning, the lady comes out and talks to her again, puts her in the car in her crate and takes her somewhere while talking to her and reassuring her that it's okay. The procedure at the vet is the same in either scenario; but this time, the lady she knows and trusts comes to pick her up. She takes her back to the familiar house and keeps her safe and warm while she recovers from the surgery. By the time she's allowed outside again, the kittens are gone; but she doesn't smell fear or panic in the places she last saw them, so she isn't too worried. After all, it was soon time for them to move on. And there's still that familiar house where the lady with the kind voice and gentle hands gives her great food and lets her feel safe.

Understand that I'm in no way arguing against the wonderful trap, test, alter and release programs for feral cats. They are a wonderful service to the feral cats and to the community, and are one of the few "solutions" to the feral cat problem that actually work. But your Kitty is not truly feral; she is much too attracted to human kindness, interaction, and human homes to be a born-outdoor cat, much less a feral. And again, the bottom line is that in her mind she is your Kitty.

In Kitty's case, it's really a no-brainer as to which scenario is less stressful/overall better for her, as long as you're willing to invest the time and money involved. The only hangup is Gladys, and that really is only a problem if you have to keep Kitty as an outdoor cat. Given your HOA, I suspect that are rules prohibiting outdoor pets; and if the nosy neighbor gets her knickers in a twist because you spoiled her control and/or plans, that could be an issue. It sounds like Kitty would very much like to be an indoor cat, and that would certainly be a safer and longer life for her; the question is whether you and especially Widget can handle that. Convincing Widget that he'd enjoy a kitty buddy would be a time-intensive process you really don't need right now, I know; but I do think he could be convinced over time. Kitty seems to have excellent diplomatic skills, and cats can go vertical in a house to easily keep themselves safe from a small displeased dog.

Please understand that I'm not trying to push you; I just see no reason why you should worry or care about the wishes/plans of the neighborhood busybody. What matters, in the long run, is what's best for the cat. Frankly, if Gladys wants to share your success with animals, she should consider offering a better diet, less bulldozer/control freak in her approach, and perhaps a personality transplant.

One more thing...

I left his part out of the story. When I 1st went out to feed Kitty, she hopped up beside me on the bench as she always does, and I picked her up to pet her for a minute or so before dinner, all part of our usual dinner ritual and something Kitty permits. I hear voices and should have realized it was a bad time to hold her. I guess I had become too accustomed to her. I thought the voices were coming from the neighbors who were outside. Some were, but some were also heralding the approach of Gladys and her dog who showed up only a moment later...a moment after Kitty got upset and in fighting to get free managed to pierce my skin with one single claw drawing a spot of blood.

So, now do I also need to get rabies shots just in case?

I don't know what upset Kitty. I've picked her up so many time now and even carried her through the house twice. I picked her up moments earlier to take her back out of the house. Who knows? We will never know why Kitty chose that moment to get upset and struggle to get free. But since Gladys and her dog materialized on the sidewalk in front of the house while I was still blotting the drop of blood off my arm, I can't help but wonder if Kitty heard them, smelled them and thus knew they were there on the sidewalk even before I saw them, my view of them blocked by the shrubs. I can't help but wonder if Kitty was upset by their approach, not wanting to be restrained at such a time. Who knows?

Kitty was a bit irritable all night tonight after Gladys left. Before that Kitty was her normal self. Afterward she was withdrawn and sullen, unwilling even to come sit by me or be petted at times. I finally just came inside and figured I would deal with her later.

Ruth,

Thanks for the input. No, money isn't the issue, especially at the low price offered by the SPCA. I'm really leaning toward keeping my appointment for Kitty with the vet and my plans. I have to check on the rules, but I actually think cats are permitted outside. They weren't at one time, but I believe some group took on this rule and won and, if I'm not mistaken, I believe cats (even pets) are allowed outside in city limits. I think it was decided that cats didn't pose a serious problem and that due to their nature many cats just need the chance to be outside sometime.

I know, for instance, that my Muffin surely did. Muffin would stay inside 90% of the time happily, but after a week or so inside, he would announce his desire to go out, and if prevented from going out for long enough would begin to act out, his bad behavior growing ever worse each day until he got his way. My limit was "peeing on the bed". When I came home to find the big wet spot on my bed, on my side even, I would give in and open the door having no desire to find out what his next move might be. This was the case despite the fact that Muffin was neutered.

I'll have to check on this.

I see changes in Widget's behavior toward Kitty. He hasn't accepted her or even stopped getting in her face, but he is changing. In his changes, I now see signs that he isn't so much jealous of her as afraid of her. He hasn't been all that well socialized. My fault. Anyhow, sometimes he gives up and stops trying to 'fight' her. At such times he stays away from her, even showing resistance to walking past her to get back to the house. He will stand out in the yard at the end of his leash to keep from passing her.

She, on the other hand, handles him well, I think. Even when he jumps in her face in what looks to me like a mock attack, she just stands her ground making no attempt either to run or to fight, her face expressing, "you're so stupid". He's like her stupid, "little" brother. When he isn't in her face, sometimes she will try to be friends. When I hold his leash, she will try to push her nose/cheek against his in that friendly, huggy, kissy way. Even her behavior around Widget suggests to me that she came from a home with other pets and probably a dog with whom she got along reasonably well.

I forgot to mention that Gladys also mentioned that her 3 cats are declawed. Yikes!

I'm leaning toward going with my plans. I greatly appreciate your input on this. Given the hour, I should definitely get some sleep now.

Sorry, we're cross posting here. There may be some fools who think you're a wimp; I'm not one of them. Anyone who takes on the feeding/protecting of a boatload of raccoons in her backyard while flying under the radar of HOA and a disgruntled Maltese is not a wimp. And I thoroughly trust your instincts; they have been shown over and over again to be right on target.

Speaking of no-brainers as in the above post, it is even more of one to decide if the kittens would have a better life living on Alley Cat handouts while avoiding nasty neighborhood dogs, cars, wildlife, parasites, disease, etc. as opposed to being tamed and adopted as family pets. If you're able/willing to spend the time this weekend catching the kittens and taking them to the SPCA, that's clearly the better solution for them. The only problem I see is that if Kitty sees you catch the kittens and take them away, it could make it difficult to catch her Sunday night before her surgery; and I have to consider her first, since she is one already bonded with you in some ways. To make the kitten plan work, you might need to catch her at roughly the same time and keep her in the garage longer than otherwise; but you're in a better position to make that judgment call than I am, for sure.

As for dear Gladys. If you decide to catch the kittens over the weekend, do succeed in doing so, and get them to the SPCA, if/when Gladys confronts you the response is quite simple. You had already discussed the kittens with the SPCA, and they assured you, based on your description, that they could work with the kittens and get them ready for adoption. Since Gladys has been kind enough to feed the mother cat and kittens, you knew that she would want what is best for them; and this way, the kittens will grow up as pets rather than as ferals, with all the dangers inherent in the feral life.

Should you be concerned about ruining her plans? H... no. You are investing your energy, money, and time you can't spare into finding solutions that will assure a safe life with genuine love for the whole cat family; Gladys called the city to solve the problem for her. You are willing to open your home and heart to the mother cat; Gladys is willing to offer the least expensive food on the market. You are concerned with what is best for the cats; Gladys is concerned with her own control of the situation. And with all due (?) respect to your neighbor, I believe I have a bit more experience in working with cats than she does, after fifteen+ years in sheltering and animal control. The Kitty you describe is simply not a feral cat. I have known and worked with hundreds of ferals over the years: they fear humans and flee to avoid interaction with them; your Kitty enjoys and solicits petting. Indoor spaces with their attendant confinement terrify feral cats; your Kitty wants to explore your house. I have seen feral mother cats consume vast quantities of found food, far more than they can digest, and then run off seeking their kittens, no doubt to share the pre-warmed meal; they do not bring their kittens into close proximity with a human being and tell them it's okay. Sorry, I don't buy it; Kitty's kittens are far more feral than she is at a much younger age. They are typical of born-outdoor kittens, and thanks to your efforts are still reachable to become domestic cats. Just trust your instincts; I've never yet known them to lead you astray.

Still crossposting, and hope you're getting some sleep by now.

Well, it fits that her cats are declawed. After all, if control is your issue, you have to disarm those little predators, don't you? I can only hope they're indoor-only cats.

If Widget's issue is lack of socialization rather than innate aggression toward cats, she WILL win him over; it's just a matter of time. She's already working on charming her "slow" baby brother; just give her time.

I completely understand that some outdoor cats simply refuse to accept an indoor-only life, and that their editorial behavior forces one to comply, however reluctantly. If your HOA tolerates indoor/outdoor pets, that's the biggest hurdle. Should Gladys see her outdoors and act out, Kitty will be microchipped, you will have vet records and clear ownership to resolve any issues. And after all, you know that she only wants what's best for the cats, don't you?

And BTW, no need for a rabies booster after being scratched by Kitty; nothing about your description of her inclines me to worry about her health, and in any case I'm sure your vaccine is still quite effective. It is interesting, though, that Gladys and her dog appeared immediately after that; you can count on the fact that Kitty was aware of them long before you were. To a cat who has been on her own for quite a while, restraint can become instantly terrifying when she perceives a threat of any kind. Fight or flight, and she isn't free to flee.

Ruth,

Thanks for all of the input. I'm gobbling it up. I was in bed but couldn't unwind quite yet. Not a huge issue as I can go in late and work late if necessary.

I got up to add one more things of interest. While we were in the early stages of discussing things and Gladys was still looking shocked and bewildered, in response to the idea that I could pet Kitty, she said, "But doesn't she spit at you? If I get anywhere near her she spits and snarls menacingly." Seems to fit with the other clues of Kitty getting upset when Gladys was drawing near (and I was still unaware).

To show her that, no, Kitty doesn't snarl and spit at me, I reached over and petted her while she was eating a piece of chicken by my foot. Gladys said, "Is she making a sound?" "No", I said, "That's the sound of the chicken bones cracking." She is perfectly fine. At the moment, Kitty had jumped down. When I came outside moments earlier and sat on the bench to 'talk' to her, I had put the box of chicken between my foot and the house. While Gladys and I were talking, Kitty apparently decided it was past time for her dinner to begin. She hopped down by my foot, reached into the box which was already open it's top just lying loosely over it, took out a chicken breast, and started eating right there by my foot on the front door mat. That's the scenario. I also couldn't help but notice a rather contemptuous look on Gladys' face when she watched Kitty take out the chicken and begin eating. Not sure why. My chicken. My porch. More control stuff, I guess.

Anyhow, I thought it very interesting and instructive that Kitty actually goes so far as to snarl and spit at Gladys. Clearly, she does not like or trust Gladys. Interesting, isn't it how smart animals are and how they just know who they can trust and not?

Thanks very much, BTW, for all of the kind words. Your confidence in my abilities in dealing with them means a lot. I have read everything and will respond later. Going to try again for sleep now.

Interesting, and again indicative of the fact that Kitty is not a feral cat. Ferals typically don't growl, hiss, spit, etc. at people; they simply flee if they're able to do so. The last thing they want to do is draw attention to themselves by vocalizing at the enemy, unless of course they're cornered, which didn't apply in this case. She simply doesn't care for Gladys, shall we say, and reacts to her in the way a semi-tame cat typically tells someone to keep their distance...or else. Kitty is actually quite confident and also feels secure around you, if she's willing to eat while someone she doesn't trust is in sight.

As for Gladys' apparent non-verbal expression of contempt, so typical. They're just cats, after all; generic cat food is quite adequate for them, and one is a princess for providing it for them. And since they clearly survive outdoors, one is going way above and beyond in terms of caring and civic responsibility by calling animal control to get them spayed and vaccinated; thereby preventing a kitten explosion in the 'hood and protecting human health by preventing rabies in the neighborhood. Don't get me wrong; all of this IS much better than nothing, if no one else steps forward. But to argue with someone that giving the cat an adoptive home is unnecessary and perhaps unwelcome in light of the neighbors' handouts is purely absurd and self-serving.

I completely agree with Ruth, I wish I was as eloquent. Mrs Kravitz should be OK with you taking care of Kitty since you had already told her.

i had to skim the last few posts... but did want to add...

Glady is doing this because it's 'best' for the HOA, you are doing this for the well being of the cats.

Just a quick word. Rushing to get to work. Appreciate all your input. Will respond later but wanted to tell you...

Just in case you missed it, Gladys Kravitz is the name of the nosy neighbor in Bewitched. I borrowed her name because it seemed an appropriate moniker for my nosy neighbor. : )

It unfortunately fits her.

OH Cheryl... yes i know.... i grew up with that show. LOVED it.

Hi Terese!

I figured anyone who had watched Bewitched very much would recall the name but thought maybe I should mention the source of the name for those who may have missed the Bewitched era somehow - if that is even possible.

I agree with you, BTW. I does sound as though my Gladys is more concerned with benefits to herself and to the HOA than what is in the best interest of the cats. With respect to her strange resistance to the idea of me taking Kitty in instead of letting her plan go through, I'm thinking perhaps one advantage to her handling this thing entirely on her own is that she can then claim credit for her good works at the next HOA meeting. That's not to say that her plan was a bad one if no one wanted the cats, it just gets ugly when she starts balking at the idea of someone (me) adopting one of them instead.

Just read an old newspaper report about that trap and release program. Then read the [reader's] comments that followed. Ouch! There sure is a lot of hate out there. Hard to believe anyone could get so intensely angry about, for instance, a few paw prints on a car, but then again I buy used cars so I don't have to get all OCD about minor nicks and dings - and paw prints. When I had new cars, the virtually unpreventable parking lot digs, nicks, scrapes, and so forth were infinitely more destructive than any paw prints. A garage or car cover will prevent paw prints. Nothing short of parking at the farthest end of the lot will where no one else is parked will help with door dings, and even that doesn't always work. Sometimes the lot may so full as to eliminate the possibility of parking away from other cars. Many times I've parked way out in the back 40 all alone in a lot only to find a car parked beside me - out there in the middle of no where - upon my return.

Work is slow today. Can you tell? That and I'm having difficulty getting the cat situation off my mind.

I love the paw prints all over my car! In fact, I have a decorative cardboard paw print hanging from my rearview mirror. I love the looks on strangers' faces when they see my car, lol.
Call animal control today and tell them your plans.

Sorry, Everyone,

Didn't get a lot of sleep last night. Too excited about the cat situation. Came home from work late, walked dog, fed cats, and crashed. Blew right through the midnight schedule to take Widget back out, etc. Hence no posts.

BTW, I realize that I need to change threads. Will try to get that done tomorrow - which is actually today.

I had also planned to check (before going to bed) to see if the cats needed more food, but since I crashed, slept through everything, and just woke up, that didn't happen either.

So the strangest thing happened just now.

I woke up, or rather Widget woke me to say it was way past time for him to go out. When I took Widget out, I just happened to look back at the house, and there in the flower bed next to the front door sat the little black kitten, alone and sitting out in the open (as opposed to hiding in nearby shrubs).

I was surprised both to see the little guy sitting there all alone and that he hadn't run for cover when Widget and I walked past him on our way out of the door. I wondered where his mom and sibling were. It was 4:30AM, the exact time that Gladys had said she gets up each morning and when she said (1) Kitty and the kittens are at her house each morning and (2) she feeds them. She had mentioned, BTW, that the little black kitten is especially scared of her (the exact opposite of my situation where the tabby kitten is most skitsh). Her house appeared dark unless lights were on on the opposite side.

Widget and I walked back past the little kitten on our way to the house. Still he sat there in the open in the flower bed. It was cold out, but, to put the cold into perspective, I had gone out briefly in short sleeves and w/o undue discomfort. It was also trying to rain lightly, the kind where you feel a single drop and then another a minute or so later, not even enough to call a drizzle. Yet there the lone kitten sat exposed both to us and the elements.

Upon my return to the house, I put a bowl of food out tucking it in the sheltered part of the porch. Interested to see if the cats would show up for the food, I turned the porch light on a few minutes later and peeked out to see the lone, black kitten crouching over the cat food and eating.

Odd.

The little black kitten was hungry. He ate the majority of the food I put out and has now left the food bowl. I didn't want to bother him by going back outside to check for him. There is still no sign of Kitty and the other kitten out there.

Strange. I don't usually go out this time of morning and would not know if this is actually the norm, but it seems strange to me. I wonder if the other 2 may be over across the street, perhaps eating and if this kitten is sufficiently unhappy with Gladys to have stayed behind.

Yay! Kitty is back along with the other kitten. I have to admit that I was getting worried. Starting to fear they had begun trapping a few days early and maybe already had her and the missing kitten. Figured that would explain the strange occurrence this morning early when apparently the little black on was here alone.

I went to both doors about 15min ago calling her but to no avail. Then a few min ago when I came in from getting the mail, I heard "meow". I was in the foyer just beyond the door at the time. I answered, "Kitty!" So they are all here now and are on the porch eating cat food and cottage cheese.

thats so good to hear .... dontcha just worry when you dont see the critters?
I'm hoping all works as planned tomorrow.

Whew!

It's going down to 25F tonight. We are having intermittent light rain which will freeze overnight. I would bring Kitty inside out of the cold but am afraid to do so because of her 2 kittens. They really depend on her, and her concern for their well being is clear to me from her actions. I'm not sure she would want to come inside and leave them alone in the cold. Her larger body will help to keep them warm.

Would it help if I put a small dog crate out there in the flower bed for them? Any chance they would use it to keep warm? I could turn it to face the house to block the wind and give them more privacy. I could also put towels and such inside for warmth.

Another idea. Kitty has made a bed in the pine straw near the door. The spot, roughly the size of a small dog crate, is enclosed on all sides to block the wind but she can still get out in two directions. Two opposing sides are blocked by the house and the wide porch column. One of the other 2 sides is blocked by a dense hedge beyond which is a small courtyard like space and then another portion of the house, so the wind is blocked from this side, as well. The final side is the side near the door. This side would be open but that is where I have my bench, oriented such that one end is against the house, one end toward the street, and the back against this last side of her little bed area. Wind is blocked from going under the bench by one of those little garden scoots which I store under there and which fits perfectly. Thus this spot is completely enclosed and fairly cozy, and Kitty has mounded the straw up in a circular pattern with a nice impression in the middle. I was thinking I could put some warm bedding down there.

Any ideas?

I think I found a solution. When I was cleaning out closets a week or so ago I pulled out an old King size feather bed to take to the curb. It's a cheap one, the kind without baffles or channels. Basically it's a huge bag of feathers and down. No matter how much you try to fluff it up, you always wake up sleeping on a thin layer of fabric all of the feathers and down having migrated out to the edges. I have a newer and better one, the baffle, channel type with down only, so I don't need or want this one - and it's useless anyhow. I had planned to take it to the curb but hadn't made it there yet.

When I thought of it, I realized it would make an awesome bed for the cats. What could be warmer than a giant bag of feathers and down? I took it out on the porch and stuffed it in that one protected, inside corner of the porch, the spot where the UPS guy leaves packages and where I put the food bowl when it rains. That is on the opposite side of the door from Kitty's special bed described above. That way she can still use 'her' bed if she prefers it, but the down bed will also be available if they get really cold.

The spot where I put it is enclosed on 3 sides by house and a porch column leaving only one side exposed. Like the other spot (other side of door), this spot is about the size of a small dog crate, maybe a tad bigger. I got an overstuffed king comforter set delivered lately and the box just fit in that spot. Because the spot is relatively small and the feather bed is so large, I was able to stuff it into the corner in a sort of cone shape so that there is about a 8in layer of down on the floor and 8-12in of down/feathers wrapped around all sides of the area leaving a depression in the middle for the cats. Another benefit of the extreme size difference between that corner and the king feather bed is that, stuffed in that small area, there isn't any risk of the down shifting around and out from under them.

After I finished building the down nest, I picked her up from the bench where she was asking for yet another meal - she has to be pregnant as she is never full - and put her on the feather bed. I didn't try to put her down into the depression I had made. I didn't want to risk scaring her and creating any kind of negative association with the bed. I just sat her down on one of the outer walls I had built. Like I said, all of the walls are 8-12in or so thick, so big enough for her to sit there.

She didn't stay. She was interested in eating, but I just wanted to show it to her, hoping if she gets cold she will think of it. Then I gave them the legs and thighs from the rotisserie chicken I ate for dinner and came back inside. When I left she and the kittens were eating - again. They are bottomless pits. And to think they are eating elsewhere, too!