A fig question

I have not posted to this forum before so I though I would introduce myself before posting my question. I am Terri and I live in NE Texas. I'm fairly new to the area and am busy setting up new flower beds and a new veg garden. Part of the space for the new veg garden has been set asside for fruit trees. I would love to try my had at espalier. But that will have to wait just a bit as the veg part of the garden needs a lot of my attention right now. So I thought I would start with an easy fruit, just to whet the appetite for things to come and I thought figs would be easy for me in my new area.

I just got a catalog from One Green World. Of course I'm enthralled.

I've been planning on planting figs this coming spring. I had picked out Brown Turkey and then wanted to try a second variety to be named later (when I got to the plant nursery). Bob Wells Nursery is about an hour away and I thought I'd go there for my fig trees. Now, of course, I'm finding other varieties in the One Green World catalog. Is there much of a differrence between Vern's Brown Turkey and Brown Turkey? Also Black Mission and Black Spanish? Good taste and good production is necessary. The good taste is for me and the good production is just in case the local coyotes get brave and decide to get into my figs (the way they did with my watermelons).

I realize that Bob Wells' is in Texas and OGW is in the Northwest, but figs do well in Texas I'm told.

So which would you choose?

I have also posted this question on the Texas Gardening forum.

Hi Terri,
I am growing (with some freeze problems in Zone 7B ) six different figs. First, you asked about brown turkey. It is extremely widespread and I have had 2 different brown turkey trees in the last 10 years (I moved to a new house). The first was very good to eat and the second was not. My conclusion is there is no real control over what you may get when it says brown turkey on the tag. You mentioned Vern's brown turkey and I would say go with that one instead of just brown turkey, although I never heard of Vern if you want a brown turkey fig.

However, I would recommend a little internet research on the LSU figs, like LSU Gold which are recently develped by LSU (DUH!) . Google "LSU Gold Fig". I have LSU Gold and also LSU Purple and they taste very good although I don't know of their productivity as mine are young. I love Black Mission and highly recommend it. I think your area (Zone 8) will be better than mine if you can provide water to your fig trees. All I have read says put some kind of organic mulch around the tree as the roots run shallow. I ran a lawn mower over leaves and put about 3 bags all around my trees. A bag of pine bark from Home Depot is ok too. The picture is a Celeste fig which froze to the ground last Winter (8 deg. one night!) and grew this tall by last July.

I also suggest you phone Bob Wells and ask to speak to a fig expert. (There is probably someone there who know about fig trees for your area). They will be glad to suggest what will be good for you. Also, there may not be all fig trees in stock right now and you can find that out.

Good luck and I would like to hear what you get and how it does.

Paul

I would worry more about the birds. You need to ask the locals what works best for what you're after. I went with brown turkey fig trees because simply I have seen very old huge ones living in my area with no care, sounds like the right one to me and the figs themselves are good. I'm a lot warmer than you so that's not a recommendation just what I did.

“Good taste and good production is necessary “is a good description of the Celeste fig. What a wonderful fig the Celeste is with a tight eye, very sweet and productive. It is very sweet for fresh eating, drying and preserves.
There have been two new verities (Giant Celeste and LSU improved Celeste) which are increasing in popularity but it’s hard to believe that much improvement could be done on this winner. If I had to have just one fig it would be the Celeste. Here is a picture of mine.
Oldude

I have a Black Mission and I love it! I purposely keep it pruned low so that I can reach most of the fruit without a ladder. The birds can have what is it way too high. I love going outside in the morning for month after month to pick the ripe ones for my breakfast.
I don't mean to crash in on your thread, but Paul sounds like a man who knows his figs and I have question for him. In fact, I came to this forum to ask this question about figs.
It has finally gotten too cold for the ones that are still left, and there are still ALLOT still on the tree this year, to ripen properly. They are turning dark purple, but not really ripening. I am concerned that if I just leave them on the tree, they will simply freeze soon and go to waste. I never worried about this during the last ten years, but nowadays, every penny counts and I would like to use what is left.
Can figs continue to ripen after they are picked? Could I just bring them into the house?
At the moment, I am trying to cook about a gallons worth that seemed the ripest, with just a bit of sugar. So I can put them onto my yogurt, etc.
What would you do, Paul?

Thanks! Catherine

Figs do continue to ripen after they're picked if they have at least begun the process. I often pick them still firm to beat the birds and bees to them. I leave the stem on and spread them out no more than 2 deep at room temp. You can look through them daily and take them as they ripen.

Figs are easy to grow! They like microclimates and lots of compost.If you give them that they will produce lots of figs.Birds,raccoons and possums can be problems.Try to get the common figs as they will make even if froze to the ground.Bob Wells nursery is a good place to by fruit trees.

Thank you so much for all of your suggestions! I'm surely getting excited for spring! Bob Wells has Celeste so that is on my list. Do I need a boy and a girl? They all must have been outside when I called, and who can blame them. I think I'll probably go for Vern's Brown Turkey. We have plenty of room. And Black Mission is on my list as well. I think three varieties will do. I do love figs!

And thanks for the LSU fig suggestion. I've found lots of interesting info to read by the fire this winter. Oddly son number one is considering LSU for his master's studies. He says that fig growing is not a basis for an academic decision, but I feel it should be considered =)!

No, you don't need a boy and a girl.
But you do need the microscopic wasp that fertilizes them. Figs bloom inside of their fruit. If you cut one open, you will see everything is pointed towards the center. If you cut open a green unripe one, you can even see all the tiny "flowers" all facing the center. The wasp crawls inside through a tiny opening at the end of the fig.
If there are other figs in your area, you'll be fine. But I have friends who have planted figs where no one else has them, and all they get is the dry unfertilized fruit every year.
Thanks twiggybuds, I will pick some more today that are black but not ripe and do that. The stewed ones were okay, different taste than ripe figs. I'd rather have ripe figs :-)

PedricksCorner, that only applies to the Smyrna fig which needs the pollen from the Caprifig. Common figs, of which there are hundreds of varieties, develop parthenocarpically without pollination. These are the types recommended for Texas especially those with a closed eye or a very small eye.

The San Pedro types are not recommended for Texas. Although it will produce 2 crops a year, a breba crop, which doesn't need a pollinator, and a Smyrna type as the second crop. The breba crop is produced on the previous year's wood. Here in Texas, the tops may freeze to the ground. While the tree may recover and re-grow, you will not have fruit that year. The Smyrna crop will fail to produce fruit if there are no wasps or Caprifigs around — a common occurrence.

Most common figs produce fruit on the current year's wood. When choosing a fig for growing here in Texas consider that an open eye and the Texas heat accelerate fruit rot. Look for varieties with a closed eye or a very small eye. Hardier types won't freeze down as often. Young trees are more vulnerable to cold.
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/extension/homefruit/fig/fig.html

Figs are really unusual fruit and to back up Bettydee’s post here is a quote from fruit facts. Sounds like science fiction but it’s all true.
Oldude

Flowers: The tiny flowers of the fig are out of sight, clustered inside the green "fruits", technically a synconium. Pollinating insects gain access to the flowers through an opening at the apex of the synconium. In the case of the common fig the flowers are all female and need no pollination. There are 3 other types, the caprifig which has male and female flowers requiring visits by a tiny wasp, Blastophaga grossorum; the Smyrna fig, needing cross-pollination by caprifigs in order to develop normally; and the San Pedro fig which is intermediate, its first crop independent like the common fig, its second crop dependent on pollination.

Fruits: The common fig bears a first crop, called the breba crop, in the spring on last season's growth. The second crop is borne in the fall on the new growth and is known as the main crop. In cold climates the breba crop is often destroyed by spring frosts. The matured "fruit" has a tough peel (pure green, green suffused with brown, brown or purple), often cracking upon ripeness, and exposing the pulp beneath. The interior is a white inner rind containing a seed mass bound with jelly-like flesh. The edible seeds are numerous and generally hollow, unless pollinated. Pollinated seeds provide the characteristic nutty taste of dried figs.

Fascinating! Now I know why, even after 11 years, this is the first time I have ever come across seedlings in the mulch around the base of my Black Mission fig. I have four little guys potted up. And the second crop is always better than the first. The figs are larger and fruiter. I also grow a variety of other fruit trees, all of which do like to freeze, like my cherries. A good year for cherries is never a good year for figs and visa vera.

Terri
You don’t have to buy a fig tree. Just find a friend that has a fig that you really like and whack off a dormant cutting. Figs do well from cuttings and you can get them shipped to you from these generous folks on this forum. PM one of us fig nuts and I am sure that they will be willing to help. Pay attention to the tight eye verities, because they are much less likely to be infected by bacteria and fungus that spoil the fruit.
Here is a simple instruction site, http://www.utextension.utk.edu/publications/spfiles/SP307-I.pdf
Oldude

Pbyrley
That’s an old picture that i have seen before! The fig tree and the dog should look older but your sir remain youthful and energetic.
Good hearing from you.
Oldude

Hey ya'll watch out for fig mosaic virus!I had about 81 different kinds of figs at one time but I made the mistake of buying aTh fig from Wal-mart that was infected with the virus and it wiped out my collection! The symptoms are very to slightly disstorted leaves a very week growth.The only figs in my collection that survived were Brown Turkey,Celeste and a heirloom fig that has been in my family for over 100 years.They were not affected at all.I've got to start all over again.Also fig rust can be a problem but not that bad.Does anyone Know where I can get a Wuhan fig.The virus killed mine and I hope it wasn't the last one.Thank and good luck

Cowpea
I would not blame Wal-Mart unless you are buying cheap plastic junk from China. The fig mosaic virus is like a cold sore in that most figs have the virus, but do not show the signs until stressed. All the fig trees are carriers of the mosaic virus, except young trees born from seeds. Sooner or later, all the figs are infected with this virus, particularly known varieties because many of them were created several hundred years ago. The good news are that it is considered a minor disease, it doesn't affect the growing nor fruiting, and only is visible -like darker points in the leafs- in stressing situations as such deficit of water or bad managed potted plants, disappearing in normal situations.
Cowpea, I do not insinuate that you do not take care of you trees but like a cold sore it comes when you are stressed .I have not experienced this virus and do not have any experience with this virus and am only quoting what I have researched on this disease. Oldude

Well you shouldn't talk about what you have not had any experience with because it sure killed most of my collection(well "killed"maybe to stronge of a word because most were still alive when I pulled them out though most failed to leaf out properly and what leaves emerged were very distorted and twisted).The reason I said Wal-Mart stock was involved is because the fig I bought from them hardly leaved out and did not grow.By the time I found out what was wrong it was to late.All my trees were healthy well watered and mulched with compost and pinestraw.It took about three years for the virus to take it's toll.My heirloom and my Brown Turkey and Celeste types were not affected by the virus and are very healthy and super productive.My friends at UCD said the trees that I pulled out would have always stayed sickly.Some of the trees I lost were one of a kinds that can't be replaced.The only reason I bought a plant from Wal-Mart because it was one that I did not have.There is a guy in Eunice that sells a great selection of figs and he ships to.His name is James Robin.

pbyrley, thank you for posting the photo. It is very encouraging to note (especially after this weekend of hard frosts and freezing rain) that celeste will grow back from a severe die-back. Question, if I make my dogs wear hats will I have better luck with re-growth? If so this could get rather expensive as I have five dogs ;~)!

oldude, thanks for the advice! I'll be reading through the info at that link as I toil away here at my desk.

cowpea123, thanks also for the information.

Wow Terri, what a wealth of information! As always there are some dissenting opinions which may be more due to location than anything. I have had no mosaic virus outbreak and I doubt you would have a problem as it's drier near Dallas. (In Houston area there could be some more chance of an outbreak). As I have never had it, I apparently shouldn't talk about it. I had a Celeste in Maitland (Orlando) FL that grew ok in a shaded area, but figs definitely do much better in the sun.

I think you will be happy with your pick of figs. The Vern's brown turkey from One Green World will probably be really good and I certainly "approve" of Celeste and Black Mission.

I've never had bird problems but other places they will eat some figs. I guess a swarm of starlings would eat them all. Mesh netting is pretty cheap and easy to drape over the trees to keep birds away from your fruit - plums, peaches ... or figs. I've read that the dark colored (purple, black) attract birds' attention much more than the green and yellow varieties (plug for LSU Gold). I am putting a pic of my first (and only so far) LSU Gold fig below.

Oldude, it was good to hear from you also, and especially to see your Celeste figs. Although my Celeste tree is quite large for a first year's growth and had a LOT of figs, they set too late this year to ripen so I've never had a single one from this tree. We had a really warm early Spring followed by an April freeze which killed off all the new growth fig buds. It took a while for them to recover and then it got a little cool here and the ripening stopped and the figs all fell off. I recently cut all the growth but one vertical main tree shoot and hope I will get more of a tree than the bush I had before. I guess I will have to fight suckers and sprouts forever but at least fig wood is really easy to trim.
Paul

If crows are a problem make fake dead crows and hang in your trees!Be sure to make them look as real as you can because crows are very smart.Also make the wings on your dumbies hang open when you hang by the feet.Where I live at crows are considered crop pests and can be shot but I only do that as a last resort.

That is a beautiful golden fig pbyrley! When I purchased all the bare root trees for my mini orchard (14 trees) I wanted a white fig, but black Mission was all there was to choose from. I am hoping to relocate to a larger place soon. And am making a list of what trees I'd like to plant where ever it is that I land. I certainly would like three figs. Gold, white, and black.
I figure I'll try and keep the birds away when it gets to the point that I use so much, fruit doesn't even get a chance to fall off of the trees. They peck a few holes in some. And if some fruit falls on the ground, I put it up on the fence for them so the cats won't grabe 'em if they try to get some. Birds eat more insects than anything else, and for that, I am truley grateful.

Most birds just peck a few holes but crows are in a whole different catagory!They will strip your trees bare!They pick whole fruits and carry them away!I have seen up to ten in one tree alone.They also have attacked my young chickens and killed one.The other birds which eat figs in my area I can live with.I love Mocking birds.

I'm glad I don't have crows. My aim has gotten a bit shakey and I'd hate to have to depend on it.

Mocking birds are the main ones around me and I find that if I leave the pecked ones they'll come back to them. The trick with figs is to rise and shine with the birds and beat them to it. They can have the ones I can't reach but the lower ones get picked as soon as they start turning. They don't like my blueberries at all and that's a big mystery to me.

Twiggybuds your are so right.

I've noticed that about blueberries too! I was really worried I'd have to battle for those. I ain't into sharing my blueberries! But they never take them, whew! They do though, go after my strawberries. And when the cherry crop is a meager one, I have considered covering the trees to keep the birds out.

If I had a cherry tree I might have to sleep under it and guard it. What kind of cherries grow in zone 9b? They're a once a year treat from the grocery store for me.

twiggybuds, I don't know a darned thing about cherry trees, except that some are offered at the local nurseries. I think fruiting depends on winter chill times, but I'm not too clear on that. My fruit tree strategy is to attack one fruit at a time. A new fruit of each year. Figs being the 2010 fruit for me to get going. I do know that if I can I would like the cherry trees to be an espalier project. I know what you mean, though, about guarding any cherry tree I might have. I do really love cherries!

Have you seen any cherry trees for sale at your local nurseries? I don't believe you can get just any old cherry tree to fuit in the zone 8-10 regions.

You are right, they need chill time. My zip code covers very large area. With altitudes as low as sea level. And all the way up to 2,000 feet. So although DavesGarden has assigned me to zone 9b based on that zip code, I am actually in the mountains at about 300 feet and 15 miles inland.
This year was not a good year for my cherries. I have a Bing and it's cross pollinater, I forget that ones name. Ha, ha! I have considered getting one of the mechanisms they use in this area to keep the birds off of the blackberries and raspberries. Driscolll grows ALLOT of berries in this area.
In 2008, I had so many cherries I was handing out gallons bags of them at work every day for weeks, stuffing my face, and stuffing the freezer. Because they had a good freeze that winter. I believe there is a minimum numbers of hours they must have below freezing, to produce well.
It is very unusual for it to freeze here in December already. But it not only froze last night, we had snow higher up yesterday! My black Mission Fig looks so funny now. Bare twigs full of the little black figs that didn't get a chance to ripen. It was a bumper year for my figs though, so I can't complain.

There several ways to measure chill hours. One of the simplest is to count the number of hours between 32º and 45ºF, but then things get complicated. Hours are subtracted from the total if temperatures rise about a certain temperature. When I was growing up, I remember seeing acre after acre of cherry trees between San Jose and Sunnyvale, mostly Bing cherries which require about 700 hours. I looked for the average number of chill hours in San Jose and discovered there is no longer a recording station there. Santa Clara County has only one station — Morgan Hill. I also discovered that the greater San Francisco Bay Area has been warming up and getting fewer chill hours every year. Apparently, many areas don't get enough chill hours to get a good Bing cherry crop every year. Some can't grow them any more.

I know I'm very reluctant to risk time, $ and space on anything iffy. I have a Bruce plum that bears very poorly even in a good year that calls for 400 hours. I have a Methley that only requires 200 hours that almost breaks down with fruit in a good year. So I figure I better stay with the low #s. I've never seen a cherry advertised for such low hours. I would try one if such a thing is ever developed.

There are a small handful of new varieties that supposedly only need 400 hundred chill hours. I asked our Co-op Extension agent about them. He said they are still evaluating those in our area.

That's encouraging. I'm 58 and the question is will they get the #s low enough in my lifetime.

Zone 8B is a tease and a trap in that it's too cold only 2 or 3 days of the year for many tropicals, citrus and too warm for much of the good stuff.

There's a community named Orange Grove only 5 miles from me and they have no oranges. Every time the trees get to bearing, they freeze to the ground. Grrrr!

Do we get bonus point chill hours for a night like last night =o?

good morning, all. Terri, hours below 32 deg do not count. I know there are 1-2 cherries that require 200-300 chill hours which is the average for my area, so you are bound to find cultivars suitable for your area. Just a little research, that's all.

I am so impressed w/ all the good info provided here. The first fig I got attracted me b/c of the foliage. I knew nothing about them, had no sense to look it up, and planted my tiny one gal. plant in a sunny spot. Little did I know my Celeste was going to grow to 5 ft in one season,. by accident I had enough room for this plant. whew! I got to enjoy fruit the first season but not since. birds or whoever, beat me to them every time.

I also have Kadota, which produces a greenish fruit. It's supposed to be the cultivar from which Fig Newtons are made. I selected it b/c somebody told me that b/c the fruit is green (lime green) at maturity, the birds don't look at it as much, thinking the fruit is not ripe. Can't confirm as my tree is young and I've yet to see fruit. I almost lost it in the 2009 summer drought but by fall I had a shoot, yipee!

I also grow Panache fig, which produces a variegated yellow/green fruit. I don't know anything about the taste but I got it b/c right next to it I grow a var. Eureka lemon which also produces yellow/green fruit. I thought it would look interesting.

enough yapping. I have a question. when would be the best time to top off my 10 ft Celeste tree? I want to keep it a little shorter so I can pick fruit easier. I know that topping off is a no-no, but I want to at least try it. So, what time of year?

Thanks, what an enjoyable thread.

PS: yes, do try to get a semi-hard cutting from somebody. They root extremely easily. But if knowing exactly what cultivar you want is a must, I've had good luok at extension plant sales as well as with Raintree Nursery, mailorder. I love them!

This comes from the California Rare Fruit Growers:

Here is my Celeste, taken this past summer. I'd have to review my journal but I think this was planted in 2007.
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/261139/

Thanks Bettydee for useful info. looks like I shouldn't be messing w/ Celeste at all. Will also need to investigate what is considered a "mature" tree. Also, since birds are eating fruit, I will have to pay more attention as to when the main production takes place.

Terri, I forgot to mention Alma is another very good cultivar for our area. If I were to get another fig, it would be Alma or one of the LSU cultivars. (Alma is at top of list).

Vosser, that's a beautiful little guy. This spring I went to a class at Winedale near Round Top. There is a "mature" Celeste growing there which has been allowed to grow "naturally", no pruning of any kind. It has 10 - 12 trunks and takes up an area at least 40' in diameter. That's mature! LOL. I saw another more mild mannered one-trunked specimen at the Antiques Rose Emporium Nursery. The trunk diameter was about 1'. I would definitely call that mature, at least for Texas where figs can freeze to the ground.

Alma was developed by TAMU.

TY, I'm pleased w/ it and hope my others do as well over time.

Another great fig is Hollier.