The mechanism: We know that N deficiencies inhibit lateral breaks, and that when the deficiency occurs, the plant translocates N from older leaves to newly forming foliage. The older leaves usually abscise (are shed), unless the deficiency is corrected. No lateral breaks, abscising older foliage, and N being translocated to new foliage only, all work in concert to produce that 'tufted look' where the foliage is concentrated at the ends of branches.
Al
Trees in Containers - a Discussion
Oh, man...that explains alot. Most of the "container" trees I am taking over are like that, but what does not make since is that they where using 3 or 4 types of fertilizers and it burned all the roots of all the trees but the ficus. If, they where using so much fertilizers it should not be deficient then right?
Probably not, but tight roots alone are enough to cause the inner foliage to die off, leaving only the relatively new growth at branch tips. Did you ever notice how trees grown as houseplants that never get repotted (as opposed to potting-up) look? I get lots of trees to 'rehab' from church members & I can usually tell at a glance when they're root-bound, just by noting how/where the foliage is situated. To be fair though, it's often a light issue acting also as a contributor to that 'tufted' look where houseplants are concerned.
Al
Hi Al. I know this is an old thread, but I've been toying with the idea of asking you this question all winter, and when I found this thread tonight I thought it might be a good way to ask.
I am not referring to bonsai here, so maybe it is a bit off-topic, but here goes.
I have a salix Hakuro Nishiki grafted so it is in tree form. I originally stuck it in a pot until I figured out what to do with it. Well, about five years later it's still in a pot and we really love it on our patio.
I plan on repotting it into a larger pot. My question is two-fold. One, I realized after I bought it that this plant is a water hog, and I guess really should not be in a pot. But I want it to be in a pot!
So, would you recommend a pot WITHOUT drainage holes for this? (I have a friend who has one planted in a garden that has standing water many months of the year and it is thriving, so I know you can't overwater it.)
Secondly, what is the best medium to pot this in?
And I guess thirdly - to combine the two questions, would there be a different medium for a pot with holes and a pot without?
Okay, sorry, just thought of another question - should I root prune when repotting? I have never root-pruned in my life, so I'm kinda hoping you say not to bother, lol....
You can kind of see the tree on the right of this photo. It is directly behind the MG-covered fence (I mention this because someone once thought it was farther away, next to the door, and thought it was a huge tree! It is abour 7 or 8 feet tall in the pot).
Thank you for any help you can give me (and thanks for all the help you've given me in the past just by answering other people!)
Dee
Hi Dee - Thank you very much for the kind words.
Your question had me stumped for several minutes because I had headed down the wrong path in my thinking. In my mind, I was going through what differences there might be between growing a tree planted out in a waterlogged soil and one in a container w/o holes. I was thinking about all the methane, ethylene, and sulfurous gasses that would be produced from the anaerobically decaying medium and comparing that to a mineral soil with only 5% organic component, when it dawned on me that I needed to be thinking in terms of TDS/EC. Total dissolved solids and electrical conductivity are roughly a total measure of all the solubles in the soil solution. Even if there weren't issues with the gasses in the rhizosphere (root zone) the steadily accumulating solubles in plantings w/o drain holes (or plantings watered in small sips because the soil is so heavy root rot must be guarded against) from fertilizers, tap water, and the material in the soil breaking down would soon make it impossible for the plant to absorb water and the nutrients dissolved in water.
The level of solubles inside of living cells needs to be higher than the level of solubles in the soil solution, or the plant cannot absorb water. The plant 'works' toward a state of isotonicity, which means the level of solutes inside of cells and that in the soil solution have equalized and reaches a sort of stasis. When the level of solutes in the soil solution is higher than that in cells, water can actually be 'pulled' from cells in the same way that salt pulls water from ham or bacon. When this occurs, we call it plasmolysis, because plasma is torn from cell walls as cells collapse and the cell/tissue dies. Commonly, we call it fertilizer burn.
You'll need to decide what soil is best for you. W/o hesitation, I would use the gritty mix. Even plants that tolerate wet feet, don't necessarily appreciate it. Watering is not an issue for me because I have to water my other trees daily anyway, so I don't even think about that aspect, but it might be important for you to arrange your priorities differently, thus your choice of soil is up to you.
Bad news coming ..... but no where near as bad as I think YOU think. ;o) Your plant does need to be root-pruned to maintain its vitality and to allow it to grow at as close to its considerable level of genetic vigor as possible. Willows are (almost all) so vigorous that you can get away with thing you couldn't get away with in working on other trees. You can reduce the canopy and root-prune now if you wish, or just prune the canopy & do a little root work to get you through until next spring. I'm assuming your tree is in leaf already? If not, then I would do a full repot right now with the accompanying bare-rooting and root pruning. You couldn't have a more forgiving tree to start out on than yours. Don't worry, whatever you decide the tree will be fine, but you do need to pay regular attention to the roots. Once roots become congested to the point that the root/soil mass can be lifted from the container intact, growth is negatively and permanently affected - until you or someone else corrects the root situation. This holds true even if you were to plant the tree out. (C Whitcomb, PhD in Plant Production in Containers II)
If you need additional help, or need questions answered, just let me know.
Al
Hi Al! Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. I have to admit I had to read that a few times for it to sink in, lol, but I do understand what you are saying.
One question I still have - do I HAVE to prune the canopy if/when I root prune? The tree IS in leaf already, but it desperately needs to be potted up. I haven't tried yet, but I am absolutely sure just by looking at it that indeed the root mass will lift right out of the pot in one piece. So since I have to go through repotting anyway, (which in itself won't be the easiest task) I'd like to do the full root-pruning now and get it over with (which makes me wonder - how often would this thing need to be root-pruned? Gee, I hope not yearly!)
I will go with the gritty mix as you suggested and see how things go. I'm still a bit worried about the watering that will be needed, but I suppose if I want to keep it on my hot, sunny patio that is the price I will have to pay to keep the tree as healthy as possible. Being on the patio it is close to the door and we all pass it on a daily basis, so it's just a matter of *remembering* to water it!
Thanks again for your help. As usual I have learned a lot from you!
What would allow you to root prune this tree when it wouldn't be prudent to root prune other deciduous trees (while in leaf) is it's tremendous genetic vigor. I wouldn't hesitate to do a full repot and root prune at this time, but I would also reduce the canopy considerably. The reason I say this is because if you work on a dormant tree and prune the roots w/o pruning the canopy, the tree will only open the buds it can support until it has enough root mass to open the rest. If you prune the roots of a tree in leaf, the tree will 'take it into its own hands' and shed branches it is unable to support. This can be important because if branches critical to the design you had in mind for the tree are shed, it can be very disappointing. If, on the other hand, you reduce the canopy of trees in leaf at the same time you work on the roots, YOU get to decide what branches get retained because YOU select what you want to be 'mechanically shed' (pruned).
If I was in your place, I would:
A) Saw the bottom 1/3 of the root mass off
B) Remove all encircling roots and about 1" of soil from the outside of the existing roots
C) Pot up or return the plant to the same container using a soil similar to that which remains in the root mass
D) Have everything ready & in place to bare root and root prune next spring before budswell.
This should allow your tree to regain some vitality this year and store enough energy before dormancy to allow you to do just about whatever you want to the tree in the spring.
You should plan on a full root-pruning/repot every other year at the longest. It won't be too difficult after you get the plant into the gritty mix, because it really makes repotting much easier. Once you've completed the process once, a full repot on a tree that size should be able to be completed in an hour, less time than that as you gain proficiency.
Don't be afraid to prune the top of this plant. Remove crossing branches, any branches that grow downward or grow back toward the center of the tree, all branches in the lower 2/3 of the tree that grow straight up from a rather horizontal branch ....... basic stuff - just like you would treat a tree in the ground. Keep it in bounds. Reducing the length of any branch is going to force back-budding and make the tree fuller. This gives you lots of pruning opportunities and allows you to immediately remove anything that looks out of place or that spoils your vision for the tree.
If you like trees in containers, you might want to consider treating yourself to an Acer buergeranum (trident maple). They are very easy to care for and make beautiful little container trees.
Al
Okay, I will do as you say. But I should fess up - "prune" is a four-letter word to me, lol. I don't know why, but pruning terrifies me (more than root-pruning!) - as you would be able to tell by any shrubs or roses, etc., in my yard.
But I will give it my best shot! Actually, I'm kind of glad you recommend repotting in the same soil type for now - this will give me time to gather the materials for your mix, and not feel pressured to get this poor tree out of it's pot right away while I look for them. I can repot and look for materials at a more leisurely pace (which probably means I will be frantically looking for them at the end of next February, lol!)
Thank you again for your help. It really is much appreciated! (And I will look into the acer also!)
Dee
You're welcome, Dee. ;o) I'm not one of those people that gets a big sense of satisfaction when I think someone is following my advice to the letter. I'm more about trying to make things easier in the long run instead of more complicated. Within my abilities, I try to give you all the info you need to make good decisions - then it's up to you. What does give me a lot of satisfaction though, is the thought that something I might have said has helped or will help you improve your effort:satisfaction quotient.
Take care - and have fun growing.
Al
Hi Al, I know you said your knowledge of citrus trees isn't as extensive as other woody plants, but I think this is a general enough question that I'd appreciate your advice on it.
I have an orange tree planted in a half wine barrel (using your soil recipe). It's growing well and is flowering nicely right now. While I am growing it primarily for the fruit, it is on my patio and I want it to look aesthetically pleasing. Which leads me to my question. I've noticed that the growth is more vigorous on the southern side of the tree where it gets more sun so the tree is starting to look lopsided. Would rotating the barrel every now and then eventually help the tree balance itself out or would it be better to train and prune the branches to create balance?
You should rely on frequent rotation of the plant so all sides get lots of sun, and pruning to keep the tree in balance. Sometimes a tree can become weak-sided on the side that gets the MOST sun, too. This often occurs as branches die back as a result of root death on the south side of trees due to higher soil temperatures. I'm sometimes guilty of not paying as much attention as I should to trees I'm growing on as future bonsai in black nursery containers. If I forget to turn them, I often discover rather lop-sided root systems that need time to be remedied.
Trees are varied in the degree to which certain parts of the roots affect certain branches or plant parts. In trees like Thuja, you can almost be sure that veins arising from individual roots will feed only branches directly above those veins. This is so pronounced in Thuja that I've seen very old trees with the heartwood rotted out that you would swear was a group of several smaller trees; but what you're actually seeing are individual veins and roots, still living, though the dead parts of the tree have rotted away leaving them free standing.
Sorry - I'm off track here. ;o)
Additionally, if you want to keep the tree nice and balanced, it may also require that you allow the weak-side branches to grow freely for a while, while you prune the branches on the stronger side back, or partially defoliate the stronger branches. This allows the weak branches to gain vitality and helps to keep the energy balanced. Occasionally spritzing the weak branches with a weak dose of soluble fertilizer and withholding it from strong branches is also helpful for trees that are able to absorb nutrients from foliar applications. I would think citrus leaves to be so high in cuticular waxes that this particular technique would only be marginally effective at best.
I can't even begin to describe the many tricks and techniques associated with maintaining trees in containers that I've learned over the years in my pursuit of bonsai.
Al
Thanks for the advice, Al. I knew you'd have an answer for me!
The advice is the easy part. You're the one who has to implement. ;o)
Fare well, please.
Al
HELP!! ALL THE LEAVES FALL OFF MY CITRUS TREES INDOORS! TREES DIE!
I bought a nearly 7-year-old Washington navel orange tree a few months ago from a local nursery that had the plant for several years in their greenhouse (it did not sell). I placed it indoors (because of cold temperatures outside) under a 48-inch X 24-inch fluorescent grow light -- four red and four blue. The plant flourished. Dozens of bloosoms. Fragrance incredible. A lot of fruit followed.
I then placed the plant outdoors and it continued to flourish in the same way, surrounded by bees pollinating the tree. Just before leaving town for a week (high-wind storms were predicted), I moved the tree back indoors. Same watering, same grow light, by windows that were wide open, no heat (heat turned off). When I returned home, one-third of all the leaves on tree had fallen off. ALL the fruit was gone. I immediately returned the tree outdoors, but no more bloosoms, no fruit and the leaves continue to fall off, e.g. at a slower rate. Many branches are now naked.
The same thing occurred late last fall. My two Meyer lemon trees and two orange trees flourished outside all summer. I moved them indoors November 1 (we had mild temperatures until then), povided artificial grow light (above), and as always utilize Osmocote fertilizer in the soil and Miracle-Gro Miracid Plant Food in the watering can, all to no avail. Eventually all the leaves fell off all four citrus trees and the trees died. When I checked with local nursery in business for two generations, they advised that they quit carrying citrus trees in our White Plains, New York location because the trees usually do not tolerate being moved indoors. Typically, the owner of the nursery told me, the leaves drop off, despite the best care (plenty of light, no artificial heat, near a window, well-balancd weekly watering, etc.) and the tree dies.
Anyone have any idea what to do? Is there anything a dedicated grower can do? I have spent $2,000 on trees, pots, special planting soil (quick draining), grow light, fertilizer, etc., all for nothing. My Washington navel orange tree is back outside but looks dormant, no bloosoms coming back, no fruit, and leaves still falling (a little slower rate). I spray the trees with Messenger (a protein known to stimulate flowering and fruit production), but nothing is working. The two new commercial lemon trees (Lisbon) continue to flourish outdoors, though one has dropped 30% of its leaves even though there are four good size green lemons that look strong and healthy. The trees are in large 22" pots mixed with fast draining soil and regular soil which stays moist ("4" on the tester) at depth (pots just do not dry out completely).
I don't know a lot about your tree in particular, but I do know quite a bit about trees in general. First, trees don't react well to sudden decreases in photo-intensity. It's a pretty normal reaction for trees to defoliate or partially defoliate when you suddenly bring them indoors after they've been luxuriating in the sun. The various Ficus species are noted for throwing their leaves on the floor if you make any significant reductions in either photo-intensity or photoperiod; so while I don't know if your tree is on the list of those particularly sensitive to light reductions, it wouldn't be a tree that stands alone in exhibiting defoliation in reaction.
Second, leaves are only able to adjust to a certain amount of increase or decrease in light. I'll illustrate with some numbers on a scale of 1-10, with 1 being almost dark and 10 being extremely bright. Let's imagine your tree growing in a nursery setting under shade cloth so it's getting sun at a level of 6. The leaves on that particular tree are only going to be capable of adjusting to light levels within a rather narrow range on either side of 6, say from 4-8. If you site the tree in light outside the tree's ability to adapt, the leaves abscise and new leaves adapted to current light levels take their place.
Light is only one possibility. Anything that creates a drought response can also cause a consequential/environmental dormancy. If you have a high TDS/EC (fertility level) in the soil, the plant can't absorb water and will shed leaves and branches. The same holds true, obviously, if you under-water, but over-watering can also cause a drought response.
There's not much you can do but wait & see what happens. I would put the tree in the shade and be SURE not to over-water. Your plant will use much less water with a reduced canopy mass. When you see new but movement, return the plant to full sun.
BTW - some plants, most, in fact, just do not tolerate indoor conditions. Remember, there are no such things as houseplants; only plants that tolerate indoor conditions to varying degrees, 'varying' being the key word.
I wish you the very best, and I hope you found what I offered helpful - maybe even encouraging.
Take care.
Al
Al,
Thank you so much for your thoughtful and quick response. The Washington Navel Orange Tree is outside since my return home (May 18; I had left the Grow-Light on to correspond to the exact hours of daylight the tree had been experiencing outside). The orange tree is on a covered part of the porch, so it has direct sunlight only about half the day. The two Lisbon Lemon Trees are on a ledge in front of the entrance and receive hot sun many hours. I have been reading everything in your thread and learned that the soil combination I have is less than ideal (drainage stone and in the other pot, "popcorn" packing styrofoam was used in the bottom to "promote drainage" something that cannot happen in a container). What bothers me is that the "experts" from the California nurseries insist that the drainage should be such that between watering, the soil saturation should drop to "2" on the moisture meter (mine stays at "4" -- saturated -- from a depth of about 3 1/2 inches or so all the way to the bottom of the container). It never completely dries out so I wait until the top several inches are dry and water sparingly.
I may be over fertilizing (Osmocote in the soil and Miracle-Gro Miracid in the watering can). There is a lot of new growth on one of the Lisbon lemon trees with the three-four large, green lemons, and less on the other Lisbon lemon. Both are budding again and flowering (last time about 6 weeks ago). Most of the little lemons dropped off the one, while the other has the 3-4 green lemons which are probably 3 months or so from being edible. The one with the largest new growth is dropping the most leaves.
The orange tree continues to drop leaves since being placed back outside 2 weeks ago, but there are small new growth at the top (most of the leaf drop is toward the bottom of the plant). All signs of budding and flowering are absent and all the little, tiny green oranges are gone (having fallen off indoors while I was gone).
Al, I do not know what to do with watering. The Moisture Testing reveals "4" (= saturated) a few inches deep, and the West Coast nurseries insist on waiting until it reaches "2" to water even though the top soil is dry for about three inches. The root ball is planted even with the surface, as required in the directions. The California nurseries insist most of their trees die from over, rather than under, watering. The root balls are nice and loose, of course the tress all have been planted in their new pots just 4-6 weeks ago. I was told that Osmocote is an ideal choice since it doesn't "burn" the trees (my Lisbon lemon trees are true dwarfs from Monrovia Nursery and orange tree, also from Monrovia, is a full size tree and has a large, solid trunk). I probably should have left it inside permanently, since it did so well for 6 weeks after bringing it home from the nursery where it was in a greenhouse with a glass roof for several years (they could not sell it so I bought a 7-year-old tree for $89, a good buy).
Maybe I need to find your soil mixture here and re-plant the trees.
I'll send along some photos later to see if you can see anything about leaves, etc. I'd sure appreciate your expert opinions and advice. You are very helpful.
Russell.
If you suspect the issue is a high level of soluble salts in the soil, you need to correct that immediately. Excessive salt/fertility levels can prevent water uptake entirely, or in severe cases actually 'pull' water from cells in the same manner curing salt pulls water from ham or bacon. As this occurs, the plasma membrane is torn from cell walls as it collapses. The technical term for the occurrence is 'plasmolysis', but we commonly refer to it as fertilizer burn. If it is severe enough to have caused the defoliation, it will be fatal unless corrected.
Do not trust your moisture meter to tell you how wet/dry the soil is. It doesn't measure moisture, it measures EC (electrical conductivity). To illustrate, insert a clean probe into a cup of distilled water and note that it reads DRY. Add a little table salt or fertilizer and suddenly it's wet. Your finger, a sharpened dowel stuck deep into the soil, or a wick through the drain hole used as a 'tell' are all more reliable indicators of moisture levels than the meter.
Al
Al,
Thank you very much. I am treating the orange tree exactly the same (same soil mixture, fertilizer, watering, sun, etc. as the two Lisbon lemon trees. One of the Lisbon lemon trees is losing leaves near the bottom third of the tree, while there is marked new growth high above (and there are several lemons increasing in size to larger than my thumb). That tree just began to flower (again) and has multiple buds and flowers (the bees are having a field day). Oddly, the other Lisbon lemon tree is growing modestly, and not losing a single leaf (also full of flowers and new buds again). The Washington Navel Orange tree continues to drop leaves the last two days and is now about one-third naked. I do use my finger and a dowel rod. There is plenty of moisture below the three-inch level all the way to the bottom. I am stopping all watering (we had rain today with more predicted -- four days in a row -- over the upcoming weekend). The driest of the three trees -- one Lisbon lemon -- is doing well although the little fruit is not growing larger as it is on the Lisbon lemon tree that is dropping leaves. The whole thing reminds me of the first-year of medical school where nothing makes sense -- every disease is a blur that just does not fit. I am lacking diagnostic skills here, but you are not. If you were here (or I still lived in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan where I grew up), we could settle this whole matter quickly.
I strongly suspect you too, have a medical background, probably medical school or something similar. I haven't heard those terms since Guyton's Textbook of Medical Physiology (I just pulled my dusty, old copy off a bottom shelf). And oh yes, your concepts are easy to understand, but not so easy to apply diagnostically in a patient......oh, oh, I meant citrus tree.
Thanks again, Al, for your time and trouble. I really appreciate it. Color photos to follow (once I figure out how to attach them to an email -- no I don't have any computer expertise, either. Not even medical schools had computers for student use in 1973).
Russell.
Thanks for the kind words, Russell. I just had a conversation last night with a friend, and we actually discussed problem remediation in our plants. Most often, there is a list of possibilities that might be causing the vitality issues we observe. The trick is to have enough knowledge that you don't miss considering any possible causes (because you KNOW the one you miss will be causal), and then be able to winnow the list until only 1 or two make sense.
There's not much more I can add unless you observe something you think is worth mentioning, so I have my fingers crossed for you, as I'm sure anyone else that might be following does as well. Good luck.
Al
Hi Al,
When is a good time to root prune conifers? Now is probably about the worst time, since they are still pushing new growth in my area, but when is a good time? Is that something I should do in late summer/early fall?
I have a few conifers in pots and have followed your thread here with interest. A few weeks ago I lost one of my favorites, Pinus parviflora 'Hagarumo'. I dug it up and sure enough, the roots were just a tangled mess. It declined suddenly over a 1-2 week period. I had planted it in 2007 and back then didn't do anything with the roots, just moved a plant from container to ground. I was one of those people who thought that "root pruning" was a nutty idea. Well, I'm a believer now. After the Hagarumo, I removed my Pinus flexilis 'Cesarini Blue' from its container that I planted it in last year. The roots were less of a jumbled mess but still pretty bad. I untangled what I could and planted it in the ground, as I had finally cleared a spot for it. Hopefully it survives the year of neglect, followed by root pruning at a less than ideal time.
Thank you for the information in this post.
Elizabeth
Al, this is one of best, most informative threads I subscribe to. I love your work on that schefflera. What I am wondering is: could I do the same with this rubber tree?
I would love to have the room it is taking up for my favorite indoor plants, begonias.
It is in a much smaller pot inside the clay pot which I use to help it stand up. How do you think it would respond? I would be very excited if I could miniaturize it.
IC - I move right into repotting my conifers (except for pines) right after I get done doing all my deciduous trees, so probably between the first week of April and the second week of May would be good. The pines I do early in August.
I'm sure you were sad when you lost your little 'pin cushion' ;o) I had planted a Chamaecyparis nootkatensis many years ago before they were widely grown and before I knew much about trees. It grew ok for about 5 years, then it started to decline. I checked for bugs under magnification and took branches to a large local landscape/nursery operation, and THEY checked under magnification for bugs/diseases & found none. After it died, I dug it up and the roots didn't look a whole lot different than when I planted it. The killer was a girdling root that, after it fattened up a little, choked the tree. Had I been a little more knowledgeable, I could have either have easily corrected the condition after planting, or prevented it altogether with a little root work before planting. Such is life - we live, we learn.
The moral to that story is we need to give some consideration to the condition of the roots when we plant. If the root mass comes out of the pot cleanly, that is to say with the roots/soil intact, we need to take steps to correct the condition, or growth could be permanently affected. If we want to maintain trees in containers over the long term and expect them to grow at as close to their genetic potential as possible, root work is a requirement. It can't be any other way.
That 'growth spurt' we think we see after we bump a tree (pot-up ... move it up a pot size w/o root work) isn't a growth spurt at all. It's simply a stressed or strained tree temporarily returning to closer to it's normal ability to grow. It's easy to illustrate with numbers. Say trees growth/vitality scale on a 1-10 basis shows 1 a dead tree & 10 the epitome of health. We'll say the best we can do in containers, for the sake of discussion, is an 8. Two trees (A & B) are potted at the same time and are genetically identical. As they become root bound, they decline to a level of, say 5. A is repotted (includes root work) and returned to the same container, while B is bumped up. A quickly returns to the highest growth.vitality level possible (8) within other cultural limitations, but B can only manage a 7. 3 years later, the trees have again declined, A is again at 5, but B is at 4. Repotting brings A back up to 8, but B only back to 6 this time. After another 3 years, A has again declined to 5 and is returned to the max of 8 after repotting, while B is bumped again and only returns to 5 this time. A goes on indefinitely between 8-5, while declines gradually in sets of 8-5 bump 7-4 bump 6-3 bump 5-2 bump 4-1. We might be fooled into thinking that all is well after the bump because we see that 'growth spurt'; "But Now You Know ....... The Rest of the Story!
*****************************************
KDW - thank you for your kind words. Fixing your tree will be a snap, but first please tell me if you want a multi-stemmed 'clump' or a tree form?
Al
Thanks Al, I'm trying to develop more of the "we live, we learn," attitude as it applies to gardening. It just really stings that the tree did well for more than two years before the decline. That is how I've planted most of my conifers in the past three years and hopefully most will be okay. Many had good root systems when they went into the ground and I've moved a few more in the past few weeks that were not girdling. I potted up a Pinus strobus 'Niagara Falls' two weeks ago and its root system looked beautiful when I moved it.
Last fall I planted a very rootbound Pinus contorta 'Taylor's Sunburst' that I purchased at a clearance sale. I actually had to break apart the large square wooden container it was in with a sledge hammer. The spring show this year was spectacular but now that I know the decline can happen so quickly, I will probably worry about it. It is too large to dig up, I barely got it planted on my own, so all I can do is hope for the best and be diligent going fowards with new purchases. There are a number of conifers in my garden that are not too large to dig up - which is exactly what I'll do in a few months - to check on roots and prune where needed.
Thank you again for the excellent information.
Al, multi-stemmed. Man, this will be a thrill. Will the leaves be significantly smaller when it leafs out? That would be great.
And I am ready to do anything required because I wouldn't be that upset if I lost it. But if it does well and I can keep it small I will treasure it.
Should I go back up the thread and follow the same instructions as for the schefflera?
I don't like to prune and repot (tropical) Ficus at the same time, and the picture doesn't give a very good idea of what the branch placement is, but I think we can work from general instructions.
You want to envision the new apices a-puh-sees ... the new tops of the stems after you prune them) in the shape of a tepee. First pick the branch closest to the center of the branches. You can change the planting angle when you repot, so keep that in mind. It would be helpful to put something under the pot to tip it so your main stem is vertical before you prune. Start with the outside branches and prune the outside stems back to 2 healthy leaves by cutting about halfway between the second & third leaf. The stem will die back to the leaf & you can cut it back to live tissue later after back-budding. Your main stem should have 4-5 leaves on it and it the top of the tepee. After you have the outside branches and the main apex pruned, prune the remaining branches to whatever leaf fits into the tepee best. They will probably be 3-4 leaves, but prune back to 2 if it fits the tepee better.
Get the tree outside into good light. It will tolerate full sun well, but acclimate it gradually. Don't worry if it sheds the leaves you left - new leaves will grow back quickly. It will back-bud like crazy & grow a bunch of new branches (with smaller leaves). Ficus leaves naturally get larger (when mature) as the branch extends, so if you wait until branches get 4 leaves, then prune it back to two, your tree will be bushy & full by summer's end. Sometime shortly after the 4th of July, we'll root-prune & repot and your tree will be sooooo rejuvenated it won't know where to grow next.
Be thinking about what you want to use for soil, too! ;o) If you're up for making it - the gritty mix will make your tree very happy.
The shape you're shooting for is something similar to this scheff in my office:
Al
Oops - I missed your post, IC. It sounds like you have a lot of unusual pines - wish I could see your garden. ;o)
Fantastic, Al. I will make the gritty mix. And I am glad to know it is a good long-term mix.
Oh and I wanted to say. I started this spring using your recommended potting mix of 1part perlite, 1 moss and 5 pine fines. Although I did reduce the pine fines to four parts because my tub I mix soil in was a little too full using the scoop I had. But I may find a different scoop or tub to mix with so I can use the original ratio.
I have NEVER been able to grow plants so well. Everything! I know I get a little too excited and carried away sometimes but I have been searching for a good potting soil recipe for years. And this is IT!
Also I am only using Osmocote and gypsum and no magnesium source and so far so good. I am way more than satisfied. Any improvements? Let me know.
I really am in debt to you.
Lol - Not laughing at you, that was a warm chuckle because of your exuberance. It's always a wonderful thing to be even a small part of someone else's enthusiasm. I'm really glad the soil helped to add to the satisfaction you get from your gardening experience.
BTW - I clicked on the wrong picture, this is the shape you're shooting for:
Yes, that is the perfect shape. I plan to keep this thread updated with my progress. If I fail at least I tried.
Al,
I don't like perlite because it is so white and floats. Can you substitute the same rock used in the gritty mix for the perlite in the container mix? Or substitute turface? I guess what I'm asking is, does it work just as well to do 5 parts bark, 1 part peat moss, 1 part turface and/or 1 part grit?
Lol - have a little faith & think positive. There's very little chance that you'll fail. Trees are reactive organisms & they can pretty much be counted on to react in the same fashion on a species to species basis. The amount of foliage on your tree tells me it has enough reserve energy to easily tolerate a hard pruning like I described.
I often take trees that are 8-10 ft tall & cut them back to a 3-4" (that's 'inch')stump and train up one of the sprouts that arise from the adventitious buds as a new leader, only to repeat the process 2-3 years later at a 6" height. This is how we build the rapid taper into bonsai trees that make them look so old.
You and your tree will be just fine, but please do keep us posted. It will add to my credibility! Lol
Al
GG- I have a lot of friends that use some combination of pine bark and unscreened Turface because they have an aversion to perlite. Turface adds a lot of additional water retention, so (depending on the bark size) you might want to do away with the peat in the mix and just use some combination of bark/Turface. If you show me a picture of the bark, I can probably get you pretty close to a ratio that will serve you well.
Al
Al, how right you are. I have cut trees back that far. Especially if the top was very weak. It actually helps some trees regain their vigor. I have a huge beautiful pin oak that was doing poorly. I cut it back to the ground and waited for the resprout. It is now as big and pretty as its fellow oak planted the same time that needed no help.
GG, just curious but why would your perlite be floating in the water anyway? I consider perlite as indispensible.
Tapla, I be interested in that bark/Turface combination, too, if you can come up with it. Buying and mixing 2 things instead of 3 would be welcome.
And I, too, am agog and all aflutter about how I, a newbie, can grow greenery, flowers, and veggies where I have never been able to before. I salute you!
G - sort of need to see at least a picture of the bark to guess at how much turface to add.
KDW - "Sexual maturity (flowers/fruit) and to a fair degree, the stage of genetic vigor, are determined by the ontogenetic (not chronological) age of tree organs. We tend to think of the age of plants in the same manner we think of age in humans or animals - chronologically. We, like plants, go through several life stages - embryonic, juvenile, adolescent (intermediate in plants), and mature, are stages roughly mirrored in plants. Where we vary greatly is in the way our cells age. In animals, body cells all mature at approximately the same speed. Plants grow by consecutive divisions of cells at the growing points (meristems), so their various parts are different ages (the top of the plant is younger than the basal portion, chronologically, but older ontogenetically).
When you cut a tree or shrub back to the trunk, or close to the trunk, it's called rejuvenation pruning because you're cutting back to juvenile tissues, which are much more vigorous than tissues in sexually mature phase. It literally rejuvenates the plant.
To further confuse you, dormant buds retain the ontogenetic age of their origin. In plants, the more times a cell has to divide to make the tissue, the older it is - ontogenetically speaking. With this in mind, imagine this: Take a cutting from the basal part of a plant (remember, this formed first & dormant buds retain the age of the tissue at the time they were formed, so the cutting will be immature, but vigorous) and a cutting from the upper portion (this is the older tissue). Let's imagine the cuttings strike (make roots) and begin growing at the same time. The basal cutting will take much longer to flower and fruit because it is taken from a portion of the plant that remains in juvenile phase, while the other cutting will be quick to flower/fruit, because it was taken from mature tissue..
Since juvenile cuttings are more vigorous, it's best to take cuttings from the lowest parts of the plant to help insure a high % of strikes, but fastest flower/fruit can be had by taking branch end-cuttings from upper parts of the plant, often at the expense of a lower strike rate. The reason basal suckers root so readily is that they arise from dormant tissues that retain a young ontogenetic age, making them juvenile and vigorous.
Al
Al, thanks again. I have never heard or read that. Very valuable info for me.
Ok, Al. Here goes. Two pics (one in following post). The plant was quite lopsided, I guess because I had it next to the wall with a fluorescent light above it.
Any suggestions for the next step?
#2
I'm not sure if the branches with no foliage are dead or not, but you were supposed to leave 2 healthy leaves on the viable stems. Those stems may or may not push new growth, but in the end it won't make much difference in the appearance of the planting if they don't make it.
The tree will back-bud now and you'll be able to shorten it even further after it recovers and regains some vitality. If I didn't mention it, a thorough flushing of the soil, then a dose of MG 24-8-16 is a good idea.
Al
KDW, to answer your question about why perlite would float, if I try to immerse the pot in water it will float off. And if I water from the top too hastily, the perlite will tend to fall over the rim, or else just rise to the surface from slightly lower. Either way, it shows up and I don't like the white color. If perlite came in brown, I'd be much more forgiving! ;-)
Al, this weekend I was at Home Depot and finally saw the MG 24-8-16. But I noticed it has only a few trace elements, unlike the Dyna-Gro, which has a bunch of them. So I didn't buy it. I wasn't sure how the plant would get the trace elements if it isn't in the fertilizer. I do put the micro-nutrient in the mix the way you recommend, but that is different from the trace ones, I assume?