Need advice on growing FOOD without a yard!

Blossom I know several 3rd generation welfare families and agree with much of your statement above. They have never considered any form of real self help or improvement. They multiply like rabbits, dump the kids on other family members to raise, sell their food stamps for drug money, run around to churches and well meaning individuals for handouts and run to the emergency rooms weekly for pain meds that they don't need. Their full time job is working the system. They don't have time to work a real job.

Character deficiency and disability are two very different things that our society tends to treat identically in many respects. A country that was smart enough to put a man on the moon 40 years ago really ought to be able to sort out some solutions.

Community gardens are a very pure form of offering a hand up and should be mainstream everywhere. Instead, the moss backs in leadership positions have put up all manner of obstacles.

Amen sister!

And here you have Nilly wanting to but she does not know how to get started... so there is the problem with the system.. lack of education.

I think she has a good idea of how now!

One of the problems that community gardens face, though, is that lots of people balk at performing honest labor. They want to "plant a garden," they have visions of produce dancing in their heads, but when it comes down to weeding and sweating and getting dirty and bitten by bugs -- well, they just "don't have time." That's the main reason I'm hesitant to get involved with another community garden.

I've seen disabled people work harder than abled. I've seen an 86-year-old woman with more dedication to weeding and watering than the twenty-somethings who went to great lengths to avoid those tasks. There are two kinds of people, and one of them I just don't like.

I've not researched the subject, just picked up on some enthusiasm from several posters here. It's great in theory and seems to work very well for the Brits and some folks on our west coast.

I've always wondered how to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak. For anything to work there has to be some bylaws and enforcement in place. I've often wondered what prevents thieving by some of the members. It certainly is counter productive to allow the uncommitted to waste space and resources, breed weed seeds, etc. On the other hand, the successful gardeners would be an inspiration and be helpful to the newbies. There are a great deal of considerations but surely there are good models already in place.

I'm grateful every day to have my own space.

Only takes one bad apple to spoil a good thing.

Were some areas of our country we can get by with putting a coffee can on a table with a pile of vegetables on it and sell our produce roadside unmanned, other areas you have quite the opposite. Its sad.

Seems a lot of people today dont care enough about their fellow man to respect others properties. And of course in some areas it is worse than others.

They take "freedom" to the extreme.

The community garden I was involved with was in a somewhat low income (but not the lowest) part of the city, next to a building with busted-out windows. But we didn't have too much theft or vandalism of produce. Some, but not much. Some people were surprised that there wasn't more.

The people in the neighborhood who didn't garden were really supportive of the garden, many even saying they would watch out for anyone who looked like they were doing something they shouldn't be. Some even showed up for a few hours on work days even though they didn't want to grow their own. Overall, it's a very positive thing for the neighborhood. I should just live and let live, but I can't get over people who want to spend grant money on expensive, super-strength vinegar that they can dump on the corn and hope it kills the weeds and not the corn. Instead of getting their quite-able bodies out there and pull weeds like the rest of us. (I'd advised them while the snow was still flying that they should mulch it to prevent weeds. "Oh no - you don't need to mulch corn!" Ha. Ok.) When they begged for volunteers to help dump this expensive vinegar, they said, "You organic people need to step up to the plate." That was the last meeting that Miss Organic-Pants over here attended.

That said, I'd love to get involved with a community garden where the members are interested in and dedicated to gardening. And I'm sure they're out there somewhere.

Yeah, we just started gardening, without all the bylaws and such. Our main goal was reclaiming a neighborhood from crime, so I was really expecting all sorts of vandalism, as well as inequitable harvesting. It's turned out just the opposite - I'm always urging folks to take more so we don't have stuff over-ripe on the vine.

The only theft was one time I planted five petunias, and someone came and dug up one. I'm ok with that - I think they must have really needed something purty right then, and it was done carefully enough that I feel like they're going to take care of the plant.

Do what you can, and try not to stress about what you can't. Every little bit is good on its own, and it's a model and an inspiration to someone else.

nilly - this has become an awesome thread with so much good information!!! Best of luck to you in whatever direction you decide to take it!!

;o) Kelly

Glad to hear a success story, realbirdlady.

Realbirdlady that is an awesome piece of good news. I'm so pleased to hear you had such a positive experience. Dg member kurantkat is involved with a community garden next to a low income project in San Diego. She said one of the main goals was to keep kids involved and hopefully out of trouble. Anything that can bring people together for a common good is what's needed everywhere.

Please tell us how your project got started. Did the city help?

Nilly please bear with me. This is a subject dear to my heart. I'd like to encourage everyone reading this thread to save seeds in quantity next year. There are relief efforts and garden start ups that would appreciate our help. Individuals too.

I would like to weigh in with an idea, if I may:

Get your church to plant a garden on their property.

In Houston, there are a lot of churches with very pretty lawns, and it always amazes me that no one has tried to work with the church to grow something. The food can be given to the parishoners that participate, with excess going to a food bank or something similar, and seriously, getting a good garden going should not be that hard. Most parishoners will be happy to put in a little work for a good reward - especially if the work is easy, like gathering some of the bags of leaves and lawn clippings from the home to dump in the pile. Heck, if the church is closeknit, they may even be happy to volunteer carpentry and wood and such, to build raised beds and hanging planters to make an edible sanctuary - if they have the right guidance (yes that's a hint. *grin*)

Now, I have to say that I myself do not currently belong to a church. However, when I lived with my father the pastor, people in the church were usually glad to help out in our gardens once a month or so when something big came up, in return for massive amounts of vegetables. We did have a few people that did not mind the harder aspects (weeding and the like), but we all also practiced a lot of mulching and mounding to make it easier to work with.

Admittedly, my family still did the majority of the work. But that was, in part, because of stuff I won't go into here.

I believe that if you have the right community, you might be able to start something. And a church or something similar might be a good place to start.

Blossom –
“Nilly, dont say cant! …… You just have to keep at it.”
I get this a lot. I really can’t. You don’t know my details and I’m not going to spill them here. I’ve done the “just keep pushing” thing all my life and the last time nearly killed me.
Like twiggybuds, “I'm disabled/retired” now.
Also from twiggybuds: “Character deficiency and disability are two very different things that our society tends to treat identically”.
Don’t put me in the character deficiency category.

And back to the positive!

There were a lot of good suggestions today - thank you all. I'll reply to each separately.

Hastur - thanks for weighing in!

I don't have a church right now either. But I bet if I approached a neighborhood church (if I can find one with a smidgen of land!) they might take it on as a neighborhood improvement project. I'm gonna try!

Twiggybuds -

"Nilly please bear with me. This is a subject dear to my heart. I'd like to encourage everyone reading this thread to save seeds in quantity next year. There are relief efforts and garden start ups that would appreciate our help. Individuals too."

Not a problem!

You've thrown in some really good stuffand I'm glad you're in here!

And I hope we can all get a little something going or help one along!

Kelly - thanks for that and thanks for the seeds! I took pictures of what I had for the bunnies' Thanksgiving and I thought of you while I was doing that!

dividedsky -

"...the last meeting that Miss Organic-Pants over here attended."

LOL

I tend toward the organic myself and I can just imagine that meeting!

Glad you and the bunnies are enjoying them;o)

Realbirdlady and others -

I have witnessed the lack of vandalism myself. There IS one very special neighborhood community garden here. It doesn't help me with my gardening needs because I don't live in that neighborhood and there aren't even enough spaces for those who do. Nonetheless, I have been there.

It's in a very mixed neighborhood. It's gradually "gentrifying". It's partly really run down and poor but many of the houses have been rennovated and wealthier people have moved in.

So there's this garden down there. When I first heard about it I thought "How on earth do they secure it?". And then I visited. They DON"T secure it. The "magic" of the place seems to protect it all by itself. I didn't know all the plots intimately, but I never saw a single sign of vandalism. If there is any theft or pilferage, it's very small.

Kelly, we are, we ARE!

:D

And good news on my personal front -

Although nobody has replied to my Craig's List posting for space, I did tell a couple of friends I had done it and one of them has a neighbor who has always had a fenced garden but can't physically get out there to work in it any longer - she says they did not use it at all in 2009. My friend is going to approach them for me.

Seems like a perfect match! The deal I offered on Craig's List was that I'd split the produce with the owner of the property.

Wish us luck - Oh I know you DO wish us luck, no need to post it!

:)

You must be excited about that possibility! I sure hope it works out for you...

Thanks Kelly!
Supportive as always!

Here's another local group who has a successful church gardening partnership, http://gardenposse.blogspot.com/2009/06/webberville-church-garden-update.html . (You might browse through their blog for some other ideas.)


Yall reminded me of when we were first starting: We double-dug the beds, and then someone donated a load of compost so we built low (3-4") borders with stone and worked it into the top, so that we had little mounds. I was out there transplanting some peppers and such into one of them, when this man walked by. I said Howdy, he said Howdy, then he sort of backed up and asked "Is that a grave?" Which totally freaked me out. I mean, ok, it's a high crime area, but it's petty street crime, almost never is someone killed and certainly not that we would just be disposing of the body in broad daylight and chatting with passers-by about it. So I was just staring at him, agape. He realized he hadn't communicated clearly, and continued, "I thought maybe you were burying a pet." Which is actually sort of sweet, and kind that he would stop to note such a passing. So maybe a combination pet cemetary/garden would be even better for the anti-vandalism magic...

Oh, I'm so glad to hear that! It will help you, and they'll get some produce, maybe even get to putter around out there if they're feeling up to it or at least see all the growing things from the window. That's wonderful!

Nilly, no one is putting you in any character position. I have a disability too. I struggle every single day. I live in pain and I keep going too. Some days are good, other days suck royal and as my husband can tell you I can do more than some folks with full capabilities. You just have to work smarter.

People who give more from the heart and soul give more than people with full resources in other directions because they give their all.

I dont beleive for a minute you have any deficiency what so ever no matter what your physical limitations are! Your heart is in the right place and that is what matters.

You go girl, you are enabled and people will get on board with you!

Nilly I sure hope that can work out for you. It seems like a win/win situation to me. I know from experience what a bitter pill it is to be trapped in the house and have to look out the window at the garden becoming an overgrown and neglected mess.

In that position, I would have loved to have someone offer to play in my dirt. I'd want to meet you and try to determine if you were sincere and trustworthy. This could be the start of a fine friendship too. I'm hoping for more news.

Realbirdlady, that is so incredibly cool!

There are a couple of "random" gardens that I see on my way home from work, and one of them is next to a church. I believe that it's the church using some otherwise not so fine land.

Personally, I keep asking why every time I see a park, they don't plant fruit trees too.

Nilly: If you can make a deal with your neighbor, you may want to find things that the neighbor can do to help, so that you both are participating. For example, you may be doing the majority of the digging and weeding, but the neighbor could help with the watering (spray hose), and some of the basic pest control (finding and getting rid of some of the critters). You might also work with them to have harvest "parties". I remember many movies that the family and friends would watch, whilst snapping basket loads of beans, or shucking baskets of corn (admittedly, the gardens were huge but the social aspect is still there).

I've been reading this thread with great interest. I, too, am very interested in growing veggies in containers. (I have numerous 5 gallon white containers that my dh has brought home from work. These were used to ship dill pickles in to the restaurant.) I am wondering if there is a list anywhere as to which veggie as well as fruit cultivars grow best in containers. I also live in zone 9b/10a in Florida, so need a online source that sells warm climate seeds. I am interested in growing Watermelon, Melons such as cantalope, kiwi, Tomatoes, sweet, peppers, Cucumbers, eggplant, strawberries, carrots, and potatoes. I was even considering corn but don't know if that would grow well here in Florida?

I've never grown veggies before and have limited space. I can not grow plants in the ground here because of nematodes and heavy clay/sandy soil. I've amended and amended to no avail. When I grow plants in containers, they thrive, but not the ones in the ground. I need suggestions on reputable seed sources, good cultivars to grow in containers, and any pertinent info that might also be helpful for success!

Hi becky. My neighbor gave me some pickle buckets from her work, too. They're handy, aren't they?

I googled it and found a great source of information for you: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vh021

Also, you can contact your county extension service for a list of when to plant what. I think that as far as most vegetables go, it matters more when you plant them than what you plant. Also, because you're growing in containers, you'll be able to move them to a bit of shade if it gets too hot.

I don't know of any seed companies that sell mostly seeds that do well in your area, but someone else might. The link I gave you has a table that suggests some varieties that will do well in your area. And you can look at the descriptions in the online seed catalogs and sometimes that will tell you if they're suited for your climate. I'm working on a list of seed sources in this thread, so you might check out some of them: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1060613/ You can also get vegetable seeds at places like big box stores, hardware stores, and even the dollar store.

As far as growing the vegetables you mention in containers, here's what little I know or have read about:

Melons, squash: The vines and leaves are large and sprawling, but you can let them grow over the edge of the containers and into the yard.
Peppers, eggplant: They're small plants and well-suited to containers.
Cucumbers: You'll need to figure a way to support them, as they vine as well. Or I think you can just let them grow into the yard. I like to grow mine up bamboo teepees.
Carrots: I think they do well in containers if the container is deep enough.
Strawberries: I've heard that you can do it, but they send out runners that take root in the soil. So I don't know how you handle that part of it.
Tomatoes: They can get to be very large plants that can take down the most carefully constructed support structure. But I've seen offers for some varieties that are smaller plants that are well suited to containers. Look for those in the seed catalogs.
Potatoes: Garbage cans! Here's one of the many threads that discuss that: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/825325/
Corn: Needs to be planted in blocks so that they can pollinate each other. It probably could be done as long as you have enough corn plants in one location.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1063204/

There's some info on that thread.

I grow everything in containers, tomatoes, peppers, cukes, winter and summer squash, strawberries, potatoes, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, kohlrabi, radishes, all kinds of greens, green beans, herbs, tomatillos.

Next year I will try some melons and maybe a pumpkin. I have sand that's full of nematodes and is very acidic. Lime and organic amendments leach out so quickly it's almost impossible to make a good crop in it.

Timing is of the essence but there are varieties bred for heat tolerance. FSU has recommendations since commercial ag is such a big deal in FL. I'm still searching for some good basic varieties in all categories.

Twiggybuds, what kind of containers are you using.. do you have any photos?? Do show!

Right now I have sweet bell peppers inside my laundry room that I grew in pots last summer.. they are 2.5+ feet tall under lights and starting to sport new leaves and branches as they lose the old leaves. I am amazed how woody the plants are, almost tree like!

My hub thinks I should cut them back and prune them a little so they are less than the height of the lights at least but I am leary as I dont know how to "prune" a pepper plant to do it any good! Spose I could just trim a little... and see what happens.

Right now I have been checking them daily and as I check them I shake each stalk gently to get any of the older leaves off and I water them every few days and they seem happy. They have been indoors since early October. Im thinking I should mist them periodically, but they are pretty carefree actually.

I do wish I had a long dressing mirror under them to boucne the light under the plant so they got more light., but so far so good.

They're just standard black nursery pots like you'd buy shrubs in. I've got 1, 2, 3, 5 and 7 gallons. They're cheapest at a nursery supply house. I also have scavenged for years and have some 5 gallon buckets.

This is a photo of some peppers. I've often noticed that in the fall, pepper plants will start putting on new growth along the old stems at the axil of the branches and the main stalk. I think most will do this and if you want to trim them it should be ok. I'd leave them a few leaves to give them some photosynthesis while new ones are coming on.

Here mine are today! They are not as lush and green as they were outdoors, but what amazes me, they are still growing and getting the newer undergrowth and some on the truncks!! You can see where my growlight is! LOL! They were that tall when they came indoors though and are pest free. I do hope I can nurse them through the winter and have a good jump on peppers next year! That would be awesome!

Um, you can go to many a nursery or greenhouse and often come away with nursery cans to recycle. Most are all to happy to get rid of them. You may have to clean them up, but worth the effort as the cans are pretty much reusable.

CORN - corn in the garden will polinate if you do rows, but you need at least 2 rows so if you dont want to do a patch and rowing is your option, always have more than one row but never less than 2 rows.

On limited space in gardening, if you cant grow outward, grow upward! Trellis, staking, baskets, containers... great for the compact gardener!

Thanks everyone! Lots of great suggestions. Corn may be out for me. But looks like many other veggies are possible. I definitely grow up in my yard in containers. :-) Just never tried growing veggies and small fruit before. :-)

Anyone have a good source for potatoe starts?

Hey twiggybuds wheres your pepper pixs?!! LOL!

Beckygardener ~ there are container suited cultivars available. I found the Spacemaster cucumber to be good in a container and I used a tomato frame for it to grow on. It remained a manageable size and delivered a lot of smaller delicious cukes. I grew a small cultivar of okra in containers (ala Twiggybuds garden design) and they were very successful also.
This link has info and recommended varieties for container growing. http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/extension/container/container.html

http://www.containerseeds.com/productindex.html These folks have container seeds available but I haven't ordered from them. I research the varieties listed to see if they are suitable to growing in the south also. I know of no specific southern seed companies but most seed companies offer container varieties. Research and then experiment. Then... please share your knowledge. Tis the easier way for me to learn ~ lol!

podster - YOU ROCK!!! Great websites, both of them!!!! Thank you, thank you! I will definitely be ordering some from Containerseeds.com. Will keep y'all informed as to how well I do at growing a veggie garden in containers!!!

Becky ~ I haven't personally ordered from them. I do want to mention they have some complaints listed in the GardenWatchDog so buyer, please beware. http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/c/3676/ and although their web site doesn't mention it, they are located in PA so definitely not southern. Should you locate any southern seed companies, please let me know?

Oooh! Thanks for the heads up on that! I didn't even think of checking GardenWatchDog. At least I got some cultivar names so I now know what to order. This coming year being the first year I've tried veggies, it will probably be trial and error for me. I already grow quite a lot of plants in pots/containers, so that isn't so much the issue for me as the knowledge to grow veggies and fruits. If the truth be known ... I love Japanese Morning Glories and have a lot of experience growing vines in pots! LOL! So some of the vining veggies should be a snap for me. But I am ignorant to what requirements need to be met to grow veggies/fruit successfully. Something new for me! Thanks again, Podster, for taking the time to find some of that information and links for me! You were very helpful and I genuinely appreciate it! :-)