Very impressive results. All of those plants are remarkable for this time of the year. Oldude just think of all the time freed up for playing with your exotic fruits. This also works great for cuttings once they're rooted and everything else I've tried.
Msrobin you'll be amazed how fast cukes grow and never any bitterness. I'd recommend that you start some new plants every 3 weeks or so because they seem to kill themselves by over producing.
I had awful problems with squash vine borers this year. Truly worse than I ever imagined. If I had to keep them going for a CSA, I'd have been ruined. The only way I got any at all was to start new plants every couple weeks. The plants grew extremely fast and I'd have been covered up without those &^%$ things.
I've got so much tomato sauce in the freezer that I could cut way back on the # of plants next year. However, I've got many new varieties and can't help wanting to try a lot of them. Many people say the heart shaped ones are the best all purpose type. I grew only 1 this year and I will be trying several more because I was very impressed with Cuore di Bue. It was good sized, meaty but still juicy and the taste was perfect for me. Indian Stripe was the best dark one and Stump of the World was the best and most prolific large beefsteak type. There's a short determinate called Bush Beefsteak that out produced any of the indeterminates and has the looks and taste. If I was selling, I'd plant some of those for sure. Martino's Roma is another that should work well for sales. It's a short determinate that tastes good. Heinz 1439 and Pearson Improved both make good sized perfectly round reds that a lot of people go for. My first and second ripe ones were Black Sea Man (4/30) and Extreme Bush (5/01).
Msrobin it doesn't sound right to me that your plants looked half dead by the time they started blooming. I think you must have had some kind of disease issue. I had several varieties that seemed disease prone and several more that just didn't care for my climate/crazy weather. Most of mine looked fine until mid June when the heat and bacterial spot started working on them. My plan for next year is to have some new plants ready to go in when anything starts looking pitiful.
Hydro, EB, Raised bed, Container?
Thanks to Twiggybuds' inspiration, I started with four of these beds and added a fifth last summer. I could have used even more. I tried many different vegies and herbs with mixed results but the effort to water was worth the trouble. I suspect I used less water and it was used more efficiently as well as supplemented by rain. I was gone for 10 days at the end of June and with no one tending to things, the pots were just beginning to dry, the lower foliage yellowing but still producing tomatoes. My in ground garden would have been done when not attended.
In the beginning I did have problems with mosquitoes. I saw many birds and all my pets drinking from the waterbeds so I was hesitant to treat the water for mosquitos. I finally ground up some garlic bulbs and added it to the water in these beds. That seemed to remedy the problem and still did not deter the pets. Later in the summer, I found the tads and frogs and moved in and the mosquitoes lessened. I hung hummingbird feeders from the trellis and noticed much activity. I encouraged them as they also dined on the mosquitoes.
My comment on the shade for tomatoes. I would have probably had better production in full sun but found there was only a short gap during the peak of summer heat when the blooms wouldn't set. Living in the woods, mine received only three to four hours of direct sunlight in the afternoon from l pm to 4 pm. I found the indeterminates did best and ate my last fresh one on Dec 1st. I will put some things in ground next spring but will definitely garden by waterbed again. Thanks much for sharing the info. pod
Hi all,
Don't cut back on the plants you plant. I suggest that there are many in your community that would love your fresh veggies. If you don't have any idea where to give away food just check Google for your community.
I'm not saying that you should feed the whole world but there are many people who don't have the knowledge or health to grow food.
Paul.
Pod I'm just amazed at your good report with so little sun. I did notice that my longest lasting tomatoes caught a little mid day shade under the edge of a tree. It was only 2 plants but they were the only ones that even set during July and August.
Now that the frogs and toads know you have water, I predict they'll return earlier and in greater force next year. So much shade may also be aiding your mosquito population. I'm not kidding, I went months without seeing a mosquito but mine are all in full sun. I've also got loads of dragon flies that my mother called mosquito hawks. I wonder if they eat them or if it was a reference to their shape.
Those are some good looking plants. I fixed some supports much like yours in some of my beds. Your bamboo looks stained and maybe varnished whereas mine is just plain. I saved them all to reuse.
I know you must have grown pole beans before and I'd like to know if you think they'd work with bamboo sticks in the pots. I had some beautiful bush beans that the caterpillars destroyed back in October. It rained every day and I couldn't keep them controlled. Pole beans would take less space and shade something else. My tallest sticks are 5'.
I glad it's worked for you.
Lonejack never fear. I love growing things, especially food. I'm handicapped and it pleases me very much to be productive and to set an example for others. If I cut back on something it will only be to grow a different crop instead. My neighbors receive all they'll accept of my extras and so do my visitors. I even plant things I don't eat because I know others that like them. It feels very good to share and it feels even better when my kindness is returned which it very often is.
This method of gardening is only just past the experiment stage for me and I'm doing my best to spread the word because I think I'm on to something good.
I did grow pole beans and grew them on similar trellises. I did successive plantings. I got a few messes of them but they didn't deliver as I had hoped. I plan to move some beds to morning/high noon sun and afternoon shade and see if that will help. I think although the tomatoes didn't have more sun, they did receive high shade or bright light most of the day which helped. That kept them from scorching.
I had very few "bug" issues with any of the plants growing in water. I was invaded by the tomato hornworms and found them easy to locate and remove with the foliage growing upward in this manner.
The bamboo was harvested down the road from a patch that grows out in the ditch. Many gardeners and fisherman kept the the bamboo pruned which only helps it spread. It was raw and I intended to store it but still haven't taken it down. It will probably rot and I'll have to harvest again next spring.
On the mosquitoes, I think your full sun is a deterrent. I was glad to find success with the smushed garlic treatment which was organic.
Still growing in the experimental stages here...
podster
How do you secure the upright bamboo? Are they sunk into the ground or attached to the pond rim board? Looks really sturdy.
Oldude
Into the soil just outside the beds. Easily done when the ground was wet. I left one side open to access the climbers. The strength came from the angle they were supported. I tried one at a 45° angle and that was too shallow and wobbly. I kept having to retie and add supports to it strengthen it. The taller and more shallow the angle the better they held the weight.
This message was edited Jul 2, 2010 8:43 PM
I'll have to try that. I stuck mine in the pots and most were wobbling all over. It looked like a drunk did it. The whole works would go over in a good wind.
You may not want to build them as tall as these were and that should make them more stable too. I spanned the length of each bed that had them. I had posted my meager photos near the end of this thread. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1047128/ One was 8' tall. The Porter tomatoes ran up it and down the other side. They were my great success story.
Those look to be doing a fine job for you. I've got some net and will definitely rig up something similar. I can tell you know something about building fences by the way you braced up the ends. I simply can't have plants running out in my aisles so they must go up.
I grew Porter Improved tomatoes in 2008. They do get long but they also set better in the heat than anything I grew this year. They taste good too. I thought I was being smart by skipping them in favor of larger fruted ones and ended up with none. I've kept a few seeds and until something better proves out, I think I need to plant a couple for insurance.
In my experience, the large ones go in ground next year. They hardly delivered in the water beds. I tried three. DH grumbled with no tomatoes. He adamantly refuses to eat the little ones which equals more for me! How high can you reach trellised plants? Perhaps the longer vines can be trimmed?
Ouch on the fences. I have been doing that on my weekends. I can feel it in the muscles this a.m..
I have really enjoyed reading about everyone's experience growing plants in waterbeds. I have experimented with that some myself before going almost completely to stacked container systems. One suggestion I might add is that your containers should be flushed with fresh (no fertilize) water approximately once a week to flush out accumulated fertilizer salts.
Fertilize accumulating in the pots can be detrimental to plant growth. I am looking forward to seeing more of your waterbed postings this coming summer. Twiggybuds!! Look what you done got started!!
Good to see you Jay. It's been awhile so you must have gone into hiding.
I have had almost daily rain for most of the second half of the year so keeping any fert at all was the trick. I think I'm convinced that with the constantly available water the plants use all nutrients more efficiently. I have only my poor sand for a comparison but I actually used very little after planting with a handful of triple 13. Gravity caused good drainage I guess because I kept expecting everything to rot off at the soil line. No losses though.
Pod I can reach about 5'. When I grew the Porters they went up the tripod and back down and half way up again when frost finally ended them. They were a mess but I appreciated those little maters. Principe Borghese sets well in heat too.
I'm still figuring out tomatoes. I planted a bunch of dwarfs and short determinates. The indeterminates are what I need more experience with before drawing conclusions. I started the first seeds before New Years. They were all determinates and continued starting seeds until about the first week in March. I planted them out beginning 03/03 in stages without regard to which type they were. In general, the climbers went out later but there were a couple varieties that went out fairly early. The indeterminates that went out early didn't produce a lot. The ones that went out later did better and the latest ones best of all.
The last ones out were Cuor di Bue and Purple Russian. I had excellent production from those two and they were in 3 gallon pots. The first ones out were Royal Hillbilly, Cherokee Purple and Costoluto Genovese. They were big blooming plants and they mostly just sat there in 7 gallon pots. I'm left to wonder if they got stunted by the cold.
Several determinate types way out produced the big plants and didn't mind the cold. June got way hotter than normal and shut them all down at about the same time. So that leaves a bunch of questions that will only get answered with some more trial and error.
I'm going to start figuring out my grow list and get started with some early varieties right away. I'm really craving some fresh homegrown maters lately.
Twiggybuds
The peppers are still doing very well. DW just picked all of the ripe ones but you can see the flowers and continuous production of happy plants with the exception of the center bell.
It has some yellow leafs with green veins. I added micronutrients a couple of days ago so maybe that will take care of the problem. They all get the same attention so I am not sure why it is the only one showing this deficiency.
The sickly Jalapeno has recovered and is flowering but I just don’t have room for it in the pool. Bigger pools next year!
Oldude
The tomatoes are close but the cloudy overcast days just have not provided the sunlight that they need to ripen. Surprisingly the big beef tomatoes may ripen before the black cherries on the far end near the fan.
oldude
I have tried a hydroponic system with no luck at all. I tried strawberries and put too much water on them and killed them. I don't remember the name of the system, but I used a nutreint container, pump, 4" pvc, return line and 600w hps & 400w mh lights. I am interested in any kind of really simple hydroponic system for inside primarily, but will also try something outside as I can start the middle of march here in this part of Mississippi. Also, I am interested in growing some Jersey Knight asparagus. I have a 4' x 12' rasied bed . I have sun from about 10am til 2pm. I hope to plant 50 asparagus crowns and I hope I have enough sun. Also, I am getting lemons from a Meyer lemon tree in a large pot. I'm really interested in one or two more dwarf fruit trees that will stay small and be happy in large pots.
Oldude, beautiful!
Jerry, read through all the threads about this....pretty interesting and as you can see from the pictures, works well. Sounds like you have lots of gardening plans.
Oldude those are indeed very happy plants. They look every bit as good as mine did in their prime outdoors. Those dark green leaves on the majority and all those blooms indicate good nutrition to me. If you're getting such good results with all the cloudy chilly weather, just imagine what you'll have in the summer. I keep hearing peppers love heat....but it seems they aren't so picky after all.
Jerry I've never used a hydro setup but will get around to it some day. I've got strawberry plants I set out in early November looking good, a Meyer lemon and an Anne satsuma all in the waterbeds now. I've also got all the common winter crops doing well.
I'm getting ready to start some early tomato seeds and hope to beat last year's record of the first ripe one on April 30. Try a few in a small waterbed, you'll love it.
You guys are probably tired of seeing these updates so this is the final one. The bell peppers are still doing fine except for the one in the center. It still has the yellow leaf and green vein. I just cannot seem to fix this problem or help this plant. This has been a pleasant experiment with positive results; I have many seeds started in my incubator refrigerator so I need to start thinking about moving this system outside of the greenhouse in the spring.
I started this experiment with as much doubt as anyone but it has proven to be very easy and a practical way to grow things. My experience has been only with bells but I look forward to recreating this with other vegetables.
Oldude
Oldude, we always enjoy updates! Keep 'em coming....Peppers look great. Anxious to get started with my own vegetable gardening this spring.
Ok, again these are the final tomato pictures in the hydro system and they are, well you can just close your eyes and imagine what a fresh vine ripe tomato taste like in January. Don’t be envious since we have had a very cold January with four days of at or close to freezing temperatures. My gas bill is going to hurt!
Oldude
.
Can't help it....tomatoe plant envy! So you are heating your greenhouse? Using a real hydrophonic method? Did you try any tomatoes in buckets in pools like you did with the peppers?
Think we've figured out a way to put a GH up next to the house and tie into the heat duct next winter. Our heatpump is too big for our place, so figure we can tap into the heat we're already paying for.
Take a big bite of fresh tomato when you open that gas bill! It will make you feel better about it. Great looking plants!
You mentioned an incubator refrigerator and got my curiousity. Have you posted about that somewhere else? Or would you share that information too?
I am a new subscriber to DG and just came across this thread. I am intrigued by the idea and plan to give it a try this Spring. I am still undecided whether to use the kiddie pools or build frames lined with black plastic, but leaning toward the frames and plastic. My concern is that frogs wouldn't be able to get into the kiddie pools for mesquito control. On the flip side, the pools would be much easier to level. Has anyone tried cutting them down so they're not so deep? I have recently put in a fish pond, and plan to use the nutrient rich pond water for a water source. Twiggy, I'm not in a wheelchair, but I ain't a spring chicken either, and this system looks to be just the ticket. Thanks to you and the others for this idea.
Don
All that looks exceptionally fine for January. If they suffered from the big freeze, they sure don't show it. I had started to fantasize that my peppers would keep producing just sitting on the ground in the greenhouse but they're dead wood above the ground. I still have a little hope they'll come back from the roots. That was my original goal anyway but I hadn't planned on 14 degrees.
Oldude I really appreciate that you tried it and that you gave us those wonderful photos. I really think this could help some folks if they'd try it. I eat something most everyday from my pots sitting in the waterbeds. Just this week I can recall tomato sauce, peppers, onion, garlic, pak choi, kohlrabi, rutabaga, lettuce, radish, cilantro and broccoli. That's a lot of $ saved and I enjoyed my health food.
I hope you'll try tomatoes and cukes which really shine. I germinate my tomatoes and peppers in the house and today I took the first lot out to the greenhouse. I hope you have some kind of plan to protect those pretty plants when you move them out. If you left those peppers like that, I bet you could cut them back next fall and they'd go again. I've looked at that tomato pic 3 times already. Just gorgeous.
If you have any secrets for keeping the aphids off the peppers, I sure would appreciate the word.
Welcome to DG Don. There are lots of good people here and you'll love it.
I'm glad you're concerned for the frogs because they're an important part of the system.
Leveling is easy. If you have a fairly flat area you can dig out or you can build up or both. The frame determines the real depth. Say you lay a frame on the lawn. Find the highest point. Dump a few sacks of the cheapest stuff you can find at Walmart and rake it out. Hill it up under your frame at the low spots. The plastic should come out at least a few inches on all sides to protect it from washing out. Those plastic buckets can easily handle 4" of water. I call this building up.
If you can kill the grass for easy digging, find the lowest spot under your frame and dig the rest out to that level. When you think you've got it, fill the area with the hose until the ground is covered and you can immediately spot a problem area and easily fix it with the back of the rake or with the shovel. This is digging out. I often have to do a bit of both. Once you do one of these it will all become simple. Just remember you're trying to make a tray. If you played in the dirt as a kid, you probably already have all the experience you need.
I hope you'll try it and come back to let me know how it works for you. It's time to start seeds in Baytown! Now that you have DG, you'll have the best garden ever.
Adding my 2 cents worth....
Twiggy's method by far is less expensive, although more work is required to set them up. Those 5' pools went up to almost $15 this past summer. You can get a lot of milage out of a $10 roll of plastic.
As far as making the pool accessible for frogs, I stacked a couple of rocks (larger one on the bottom) inside and outside the pool next to the edge for them to get in and out.
The more I think about it, the more I think I will go with the frames and plastic. Fortunately, I have a smaller tractor with front end loader and can level out a spot fairly easy. I just rebuilt my pond, so my yard on that side is completely destroyed anyway. All of the rain we have had made the ground super mushy and I left foot deep ruts.
So msrobin, did you put a sign up by the rocks saying, "Frog Entrance"? Just kidding. That's a good idea. I thought that if I used the pools, that I would cut them down to about four inches.
Twiggy, I already love DG. It is an amazing community. I have yet to see one cross word and I have read pretty far back in several of the forums.
Don
Podster
I have it posted over at Tomatoville. Here’s the link http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=9979&highlight=refrigerator
It really works well and will germinate quickly since the temperature is held at a constant temperature.
Oldude
Thank you for the link. Off to tour it.
Dgal, my apologies....WELCOME to Dave's Garden! You won't find a cross word on here anywhere. Everyone has to play nice in Dave's sandbox. This a wonderful community where many friends are made and we all kind of feel like family. Glad you joined us! BTW, there are regional annual Roundups through most of the country, where DG members meet. I've been to one in Kentucky and had a ball.
LOL! No entrance sign for the frogs, but luckily they have found it on their own. The first resident frog wasn't so lucky. :(
I think Twiggy has almost all of the beds done with plastic. I just happened to have an extra pool I confiscated from the dog. This is a link to a thread Twiggy started last year with several pictures. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/926516/
This message was edited Jan 25, 2010 5:03 PM
The devils made me post this tomato picture in February. Here you go nearly 5” across, 3” tall and pegged out my one pound scale.
Podster, I am saving this one for February’s gas bill. It’s been fun but I am having trouble with gray mold. Got complacent and did not spray every week so it’s going to be a tough thing to pull a couple of plants that are severely infected. Sunshine for the next week so maybe I can keep it at bay with copper and danicol.
This has been an enjoyable thread. Best of luck with the spring plantings!
Oldude
That is a beautiful mater for anytime, let alone February. My personal best is April 30, 2009 and with all this cold it will be hard to beat this year. But just watch, I'll show you something. I've been looking at tomato pictures all over the web and I'm dying for one.
That gray mold is rotten luck and I hope you can save the rest. If this rain doesn't slow down, it's going to be hard to grow anything this spring. Last fall I couldn't keep spray or dust on anything on account of it. I always get some foliage problems even with normal weather but my seedlings are looking good and I'll give it my best shot.
Hi oldude,
I tried to go over to tomatoville and view your post there. I even registered and was still denied access. Would you please post a picture of your system here. It seems as though tomatoville is not as friendly as DG.
Paul.
Terrific looking tomato! I will bet on it tasting great too. I have no experience with grey mold. Please tell me what the cause and the cure are?
Paul
All I can say is be patient, the folks over on Tomatoville are wonderful, helpful and very knowledgeable. If you cannot gain access to the link, I promise to post here on this forum.
Podster
This is my first experience with gray mold and It seem to like a dark warm humid climate of a greenhouse that is experiencing a lot of cloud cover as has been the case here.
Copper and Danicol are preventative but not as much help after the infection. Bonehead dumb of me not to spray every week during cloud cover that has lasted weeks at a time.
Sunlight predicted for most of next week so this means a dryer less advantageous to mold atmosphere in the greenhouse.
Oldude
Thanks for the return oldude.
We have trouble with mold here in Oregon without the green house, depending on the weather. If we have a lot of overcast days that can happen if we don't spread out the plants to allow enough air to circulate.
How is the air circulation in your green house? I know that Louisiana is very humid on a Dry Day. With cloud cover it might get worse.
I am a missionary to Haiti. We deal with mold and humidity all of the time. We can't use any growing techniques that will foster mold. I know I have wanted to build underground cool storage places but have been prevented because of the wet air. I would just grow
mold. Anything that is stored will get damp.
I have been looking at condensing the water out of the air under the plants for moisture.
The air conditioners at the mission center, used to cool computers that die in the humidity, drip 3 to 4 gallons of water a day. We use the water to fill batteries. It is great distilled water.
I have been thinking of running PVC pipe underground, down about 3 to 4 feet, and slowly circulating the air through. The ground down below the heat or frost line stays a constant 56 to 65 degrees, year around. If one were to slowly circulate the 85 to 90 degree air, laden with moisture at 85 to 90 percent, through the underground pipes, hence cooling it; causing it to loose its moisture to the ground. One might just get enough moisture for good plant growth.
Here is a link that explains using subterranean air circulation to gather heat.
http://sunnyjohn.com/
Well enough for now. I think this is plenty to chew on.
Paul.
Well, I finally got my experimental "water bed" system set up today. I'll see how things go this season. If it is anything like Twiggy's, I'm in for the long haul. Thanks Twiggy for the good info.
Good going Dgal! If I can suggest, cram more pots in that bed. The less exposed water surface you have, the less evaporation. You already have a great crop going. Boy, am I behind the curve this year.