ID from an eBay auction

pollyk,
Good idea. I will try that. I think also that if you put a fraudulant seller on your "favorite" list on Ebay, you can keep track of them. I think it may state their new name if they changed it.

Now I'm going after The-Country-Garden for the second time. I wrote her last year about Iris Wearing Rubies. Said she had 100's of them and they all bloom what the photo show. At the time I didn't realize she makes a habit of buying NOID's to resell as named varieties with stolen photos. Now, I have more to throw at her.

Lilly

Blomma I tried that also throwing the book at her, I went thru her feedback and wrote down the numbers of iris she bought from gardeningjudy & irises_4u

HEY! People not to be mixed up with Iris4u in Denver ( Bob Van Liere) who is a wonderful man and is the president of Tall Talk TB iris.

She bought in lots of 100, 50, 25, 10 from gardening 29 times last yr and 6 times from irises_4u all mixed thrown together.

I can not say about the people she bought from, they might not know what she is doing
but I became the bad guy as she claims telling lies that she was not selling untrue to name iris & all were rebloomers Yeah Right!!.

Paypal told me to file with the IC3 on one seller I was dealing with as they had other buy claims against them at the same time. you should also file with your bank for reverse charges saying this person sold you sometime that is different thrn you paid for.

I also emailed Keith Keppel on the use of the photo Bugaboo which is on the back of his 2006 catalogue as I know, I have this catalogue & buy from Mr. Keppel. I also emailed Joe Ghio & Dave Schreiner.

Midrashish leave negatives & tell others about the fraud on Country-garden & seeds4u who had gotten 9 negatives from a buyer complaining about the same thing iris bulbs in plastic bags & not what ordered.

argh. I'm up again, can't sleep. Mainecoon, just keep in mind Keith is not the fondest person of the 'puter. emails to him sometimes go into the ozone. he's been known not to turn it on for weeks! but he is a dear dear man, isn't he?

O.K., I have now sent all the pictures and info I have to both e-bay and paypal.

Let's try to keep the momentum going (though I have to leave for a week).

Jim the iris fan sent in 51 complaints on e-bay! Here is his suggestion (and a hello to flowerfrenzy): "She also is illegally using links to her web page – I have sent a complaint to e-bay concerning the links. Anyone can report the links by going to the auction page and right below her id info is a “report this item” flag. By clicking on the flag, the report comes up. She is linking her auction pages to her web site – against e-bay rules. Easy to file a complaint and everyone should do it. If you talk to Flowerfrenzy, tell her hello. She was a member of our Iris Society ‘OTIS’ in Oregon."

You'd think the big companies might have greater/sufficient motivation to put serious pressure on e-bay. I hope they read and pay attention to Mainecoon's e-mail. They do after all have something to lose. I almost didn't order from Schreiner's because it looked like I could get the same thing cheaper and I hadn't been burned on e-bay before.

A computer friend told me to how to attach the original add a different way. If it works, I can attach the others.

I was going to file a compliant about seeds but it seems that her auctions have been pulled YIPPY

Last year, both Paul Black and I showed examples and filed compliants about the iris-cottage to both ebay and paypal to NO AVAIL, as commerical growers honestly we do not have time to go after these once the season gets going, as we must get catalogs, webpages, pictures, weeding then digging and shipping done.

I have appreciated when someone sends me an email and tells about someone using my pictures greatly as I go to Ebay with the original photo and the highjacked one. NOTHING.

I have complianted until I am blue in the face about Wearing Rubies with Cat's Eye photo, the numberous times she has called an iris by a name that is NOT a registered iris, and calling most of her iris rebloomers when they DO NOT.

Good luck on anyone that has been taken advantage of by her and her other ID, and now seeds...

D

I still see seed's auctions. Twelve beardeds and various other....

OK can you tell me where as I did not see them...sorry for the inconvience

Found it and filed a compliant! Now do you do it on each and every listing or just one?

D

Depends on how ticked off you are.....The more noise we all make the more likely they are to do something.
Maybe a few every few days is even better?

How does one get hold of the administrators of dave's (to disprove her quoted statement above that she talked to the "owner" of Dave's?

I suspect that a place as big as Shreiner's (and other big companies who've had pictures stolen) must be must have a lawyer who could make even more effective noise. But until those are figured out, we can try ordinary citizen noise.

either click on Dave's post usually at the top of each forum or see below where it says Contact Us.

Trust me, she was NOT given permission to use any photos out of Plantfiles as they are NOT Daves, the are the property of the person who posted them

If you will look at the ebay listing Karnival Kathy or reverse it , and look in Plant Files you will see that it belongs to Margie Valenzuela whom I have contacted as she is a friend and has enough pictures stolen by a company in Canada and ebay users.

I will not post my pictures any more in plant files because of so many being stolen and used without permission.

D

I think someone mentioned we could contact other buyers from the troublesome sellers and warn them at least say, what a rhizome looks like.....
I looked at seeds reviews. they struck me as very odd. Almost all from people who only said 100% positive things. some over a 1,000 times. Are there entities that do fake positive reviews for money or goods? or is there some back patting system?
Weird looking.
o.k., I have to go plant.

about the only way to not have the photos stolen is the mark the sellers or put a copyright notice across the bloom, making it more impossible to see clearly.

Did I ever tell y'all about the time I went to an Internet gaming conference in New Orleans, and during the presentation, saw our game's original artwork (custom made) and sound track (original score, original song) displayed up on big screen by a Canadian firm whom I'd never heard of? They were bragging how their "product" had produced nearly $3mil in profit the first month. guess profit must have been high, because there was no production expense!

see, the thing is, if you have your original photo used to make a profit (they are using it to advertise their product for sale), and a street address and phone # and business owner name, you can sue for copyright infringement. but the cost of the case is going to be high, although one case usually = $75,000 in fines and damages can equal all their sales on that product. but you would have to sue, and the hard thing about suing is finding their assets. so you almost have to find them, locate their homes, businesses, and hire a firm to do forensic accounting, before they even know you are on their tails. our legal system works better as a deterent than a punishment.

I should think by now enough photos have been pirated by this one person that a group could file a class action tort suit.

Any good photo shop person, I am told can remove anything from photos...a good friend of mine, did on one of mine that I thought NAY you can not do it...well I was wrong, if you are good it can be done, do not ask me how, as I could not do it for several reasons lack of knowledge and unless it is my own picture, I would not do it...

D

For those of you, and I know there are many on here that only sell registered and true to name irises, look at the email I got from a major nursery (not just an iris supplier) in NC. This nursery is one I had tons of respect for. No more. My email first, and then his.


Hello there,

I am a beardless iris grower, and I was looking at your site for something nifty to buy, and saw Queen's Tiara. A lovely picture.

I checked the Japanese iris registry, and there is no iris registered under that name. I then searched for it on the internet, and came up with only your listing and Van Bourgodien.

Please tell me that it's an old registry or some such, and that your company is not selling no named, made up named, or incorrectly named irises from the Dutch growers, which is becoming a huge problem in the Japanese iris industry, and has been the subject of many a discussion in the Japanese Iris Society.

i would truly love to know the origion of Queen's Tiara.

i was able to find Tora Tora listed under Tora-Tora, so I'm hoping I'm just not finding Queen's Circle for some odd reason.

Thank you,

Polly Kinsman



Dear Polly:

Thanks for your note about the Japanese iris. As you are most certainly aware, far less than 1% of all perennial cultivars are "registered" with the proper authorities. Once a cultivar name and image are published, that name is established and valid. Proper registrations certainly make my job catalog writing easier, but any nursery who decides to only carry "registered" cultivars would quickly be out of business. I would suggest that you encourage the Japanese Iris Society to work to register these unregistered varieties, as has been done by groups such as the American Hosta Society. It's the only way to make this happen since many breeders often have no reason or interest to register them themselves. Think of this as you would purchasing a pet....a tiny handful of folks will only buy a "registered" pet, while the majority of people could care less and buy one because it looks nice and performs well. I hope this helps.

K. von Bourgondien, Virginia Beach VA is a major supplier to Lowe's. I have some
of their package cards saved for id's. I think they are just a broker with no interest
in names or quality as long as people buy their items.

Who is this?

That is WRONG as both you and I know.

D

Van Bourg, is a broker, they get plants from wholesalers

D

Plant Delights Nursery.

Jerry, Van B is horrible. I would have expected it from them, but not Plant Delights.

Plant Delights YIPES.

I will have to go look Polly thank you for the heads up.

I always do a search on iris registra before I buy now.

D

Van B is a wholesale broker, and also a retail company. You know, I never thought about it, Dee, but I wouldn't doubt Plant Delights bought Queen"s Circle wholesale from Van B. Now I even trust them less.

By the way, I did check the AIS registry, and the Japanese Iris Society registry. The JIS maintains a seperate registry, which is free on their website, and once in awhile you'll find an iris there from back in the 30 and 40s that you can't find info on at the AIS registry.

I know they have their own registry but had never paid attention to there being a JI on there and not on the AIS...interesting.

D

Dee, it would be on both registries. But the AIS registry doen't have information on some of the ones from the 30s and 40s, where the JI one does. It shows on the AIS as registered, and then says we have no info for 1939 and 1949 registers, or something to that effect. But the name does come up.

OK, now I understand, thank you for clearing that up...

D

We always learn

HOLD ON A SECOND HERE.

I VOLUNTEER AT PLANT DELIGHTS! Polly, they are about 15 miles from me. I work in the Juniper Level Botanical Garden side.

They are a great great group, and this doesn't sound like any of them! about the only irises they do carry are a few species, and Tony Avent doesn't carry them because he tends to carry less common plants and has no interest in carrying irises commonly available. They also have no interest in carrying more irises. I know, I've tried. they tend to carry collected plants, and specialize in hostas and hardy tropicals. last I looked I think they had only one or two in the catalogues, but I haven't had time to look at the lastest catalogue. (I'm scared to open it - I'll spend $$)

PLEASE Dmail me and tell me who responded this badly to your email! I gotta look into this.

FYI - last time I saw the roster, Tony Avent is a member of Eastern NC Iris Society, like I am.

The email came from Tony himself, with cc Diane Austin, whoever she may be.

That's the reason I was looking at Plant Delights. I knew he had species, and I was looking to see what species irises he had. I saw the Japanese iris, and that's what prompted my email.

I have sent a copy to the President of the Japanese Iris Society, Dennis Hager, and his response follows below. I am sorry to say I believe Plant Delights bought no named Japanese irises from either Van Bourgodien or some other wholesaler that does not care about names. What Tony said about only 1% of perennial plants being registered is, of course, true. There is not a registration for sedums, salvias, exhinaceas, and the like, but there IS for irises, and hostas, and for someone to just sell unregistered irises is wrong. In the case of Japanese irises, the Ensata guys, Bob Bauer and John Coble, spent a lot of time making sure the registry was accurate, and keeping it up to date, and Tony Avent, in my opinion, should be respectful of that.

I will not get in any further discussions with Tony Avent. I was surprised at his reply, but I certainly know he can talk circles around me when it comes to plants, so no sense me trying to get him to see my way.

Response from Dennis Hager, president of the Japanese Iris Society

"Polly,

I find this particularly frustrating--to the point that I spoke about unregistered cultivars in the trade at the JI Section meeting in Kansas City. I have gone to nursery trade shows and spoken with both growers and retailers about the problem.

I wrote to Tony about a month ago and the response I got from him was much different, but no more satisfying. He sent me the cultivar list that he grows and indicated that he purchases "virtually all of our Japanese Iris from Ensata Gardens since we can't trust the Dutch to get anything right". I agree with the point about the Dutch. As I see it the problem is that the plants are handled through the cut flower market. If there is a labeling or quality problem with a plant as opposed to a cut flower, the problem will not be detected until the plant is grown and bloomed.

When I googled this cultivar, the only legitimate hit I got was the Royal Botanical Garden (Hamilton, Ontario) Auxilary plant sale. I just sent an email to the auxilary inquiring as to the provenance of the plant they are offering.

I find his response to you particularly interesting. I am not a member of the AHS, but my brother is. According to my brother, a few years ago Tony was advocating for much tighter control of hosta registrations--to the point that he wanted some sort of accreditation for hybridizers.

Keep up the good work.

Dennis

Here's the picture of the iris in question from Plant Delights. I think from Tony's response, he is acknowledging he knows it's an unregistered iris.

http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/Detail/07650.html

Now here's Japanese iris Fortune, a notoriusly unregistered JI that has been in the trade for many years. It is sold by Dutch Gardens, and many other places. See if it doesn't look the same.

http://www.dutchgardens.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-DutchGardens-Site/default/Product-Show?pid=30530

But now see plant files on the picture. Mainer got the one pictured, where kivaiver did not. That's because it's not registered and there's no control over the non registered ones.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/92421/

Wow, Polly. The hairs on the back of my neck have gone up. You have done some good sleuthing here. It is important, I think, for novices and more experienced iris growers to understand the depth and breadth of this issue. But more importantly, it's important to know which seller is in which camp before we buy.

Thanks,

Kathy

This message was edited Sep 29, 2009 6:42 PM

Thanks Kathy,

Not such good sleuthing. I sell JIs and my ears really perk up when I see something off. It doesn't surprise me to see Van Borgodien, or Dutch Gardens selling the no name, or not registered ones, but I was really shocked at Plant Delights.

It's so important, as these irises are flooding the market, and there is no control over them. If you buy from one of these nurseries (and I'm not including Plant Delights in this statement), you never know what you're going to get. It could be as pictured. It could be a very inferior iris. Plant Delights has always been known for quality and being true to the picture provided, but this surprises me.

Yes, me too . . . but then, that's why I think it's important that you have determined what their true stand is.

Yes.

I'll be interested in what Bonjon gets from them.

now I'm feeling extremely dumb for suggesting, and pushing a bit for them to carry more irises. I will ask about this in person the next time I'm there.

Here's part of a comment I got from a member of the Japanese Iris Society. Everyone knows about Daves Garden Watchdog!

"I would have mentioned that they could potentially damage their own reputation and lose the business of many "informed" gardeners. By this I mean that if you sell unregistered or made-up named iris, in this electronic age, you could soon find your business with negative comments on popular review sites like Dave's Garden. So thanks for the heads up. I'll get that beautiful JI by finding the registered one at a grower. "

Since I'm very inexperienced on all but bearded, I wouldn't know if they lied, cheated, and -tole! I can't make the letter that not there! Gave Polly Co a rating, had to avoid that letter! weird! Happy Wed BIF' --!!

Thank for the feedback, Nicky, but that's hilariou_. Where is your s?

Probably sitting on it.

Jerry!!!!!!!!!LOL

I've bought a lot of nice Iris on Ebay in the past three years. Somehow I managed to get lucky. Almost everyone that I purchased from is one of the vendors you all have listed here as good ones. If anyone were mislabled, unless it was obviously the wrong color, I probably wouldn't realize it. I did get a mix up on some from a co-op, but I realize that mixups happen. I like those mistaken ones too. They weren't too expensive so I don't mind a few lovely Noid ones.

Big news, there is actually an official co-op interest thread open!

If I am correct all of seeds ads have been pulled:) but now highland is listing boise, same kind of ad, same person?

D

Just checked on seeds4u the negetive feedback is adding up, they are atill selling maybe they stipped for a couple of days when people started to email them about there listings, the ones listed seem to be new as I had not seen them before.

I have filed listing violation for Wearing Rubies on Country-Garden and you never hear from ebay , just that we can not tell you what we decide on the out come, they never do any thing or the listing would be removed



Bonjon I expect it will take a week for Keith to get back to me. he is a nice man, so is Paul B

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=208seeds4u2009&&sspagename=VIP:feedback&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller

The president of the Japanese Iris Society has traced the iris Queen's Tiara back to one of the Dutch growers, specializing in the bagged perennials, Van Hoff & Blokker. I am very surprised at Plant Delights selling this. An unregistered iris from Dutch growers.

Again, I think Tony Avent is a wonderful plantsman. He's almost up to the Dan Hinkley status. Plant Delights Nursery has introduced the American gardener to a ton of new plants. I just don't understand Tony Avents stand on this issue. Maybe Bonjon will find out what's up when she goes there again.