I understand exactly what you mean, ClematisGuru. You are so supportive. THANKS! You can almost feel from some that I am at fault for being a victim. I appreciate you.
Oh do not feel badly on my account Debbie and Diana! Diana, you thought you were sharing a great deal. I was so happy to get to know both Debbie and Diana. You guys are just so great.
And you are right Evey, it was $6. But again I must say $6 is a great price for a dead plant. How many had you ordered Evey that were DOA? Poor Evey had to go thru so much before she got her refund. You even called him a few times, didn't you?
I did not get these from a coop, Cattjovi. Those are buyer beware. I bought these from his online store. Did he screw people in a coop too?
Oh a happy note, I am about to get a great box of clematis from Evey who tells me they are just beautiful! So I will need to get them in the ground fast to get a great root system for a great spring take off.
Looking for info on KOI Gardens
The ones I got from Koi in fall were most definitely DOA... my guess is that they were drowned long before arriving, as what was left of the roots was simply mush. I had also preordered quite a few for spring delivery during the winter sale and asked for a much earlier delivery than many on the forum. I'm sure this is what gave me any prayer of getting my money back. Since my requested delivery date was so early compared to most of us here on DG, I knew he had missed it before any of the grief had surfaced here on the forum. I spent a lot of time working to get my money back. It took many emails, many contacts to PayPal, and many phone calls, and this was before he had been receiving widespread requests from others. I cannot imagine what the folks who made their requests during the deluge have had to endure. But, I hope you all continue to be tenacious. Vendors know what they are getting in to when they accept someone else's hard-earned money and make a promise of delivery... and they should be held accountable, no matter what their personal circumstances.
Yep, the clems that arrived recently are really healthy and happy... I am really pleased with this grower! My mom dropped by today and thought I had these all for myself. Then she saw that a lot of them had the same name and realized they were to share. It was fun to watch her face as she went through the thought process... I could tell she was just itching to ask where I planned to plant this many more clems!!! =P
Kell, I did realize from your earlier post that your order from Koi Gardens was from his website. If I'm not mistaken some may still be waiting for clematis from the co-op that was run in the spring. I'm not sure if that's still the case. I don't see in any replies where anyone is implying fault to you. I am curious why you feel this way? You purchased something in good faith and it was not delivered. You have every right to be angry. I'm certainly not defending Koi for any of it's bad business actions, I was just stating my history with this company. I did feel some of the posts made took jabs at those who did post positive comments about Koi. I hope that wasn't the intent but that's the way it can across. Some of the comments made might have been better placed in a private dmail but that's just my opinion.
Arlene
I came across this book by Raymond Evison the other day and thought Evey would be interested in this one and also maybe some other people. I love that it is for smaller gardens.
Kell, that's the one I would love to check it out, Evey had posted about all the books she has in the 'Advice on Structures for clems' thread and that was included.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=7027790
I missed that thread, Sue. At least I put the picture in this time. LOL
:-)
I'm also one of the ones who ordered clematis(a bunch!) from Koi. I was very disappointed that all the clematis died. I think he started out in his new venture and it just went downhill due to weather, etc. The main thing for me is he never responded to my emails. I have now come to know he was just overwhelmed and depressed....it could happen to any of us starting a new business. The other day I received a huge box of clematis from him.....all beautiful and healthy except for a couple. So I think he is trying to make things right for all his customers. I believe he is honest and trustworthy and I would now order from him again. I think if given time, everyone will be satisfied.
satisfied!?! I live on disability, I ordered almost $200 worth of clems form the sale...the response I got was you must be mistaken about who you placed your order with...because he has no record of my purchase, even after I attached the order and all the reciepts from the transaction to the email...I even mailed him hard copies via registered mail and he still insists I never ordered from him...almost turned me off to clems altogether!
So yeah I'm as angry as a grizzly bear someone woke up from hibernation!
I ended up ordering from Brushwood Nursery 3 plants (not willing to place big orders anymore) I ordered a Jackmanii Clem, a Blue Eyed Susan passie, and a Jasmine,
all three were extremely healthy the Passie even bloomed for me 2 days later....I highly recommend them
That's just nasty and wrong!
Edited to say that thankfully administration removed the portion of trinawitch's post that I was referring to with my comment. It was highly offensive and totally unnecessary as well as not in the spirit of Dave's Garden.
This message was edited Sep 23, 2009 6:27 PM
Trina, poor you! I still have not gotten my money back. He is a thief in my book.
admin did not remove the coment I did....and trust me that is now the least of his worries! you rip people off you will wind up in a very bad place!
Since you said you deleted the very nasty portion of your post, directed personally to Perry Jerome Post, it makes it all the worse in my mind. You'd gladly wish evil on a person who's admitted he's down and out, trying his best to satisfy everyone? That's worse than anything he ever did! He didn't wish you anything nasty or evil.
My hope is you are not a twin.
wow the way you reacted someone might think your personally related...I am glad you got your stuff from him...I however did not get my plants, my refund, or even an acknowledgement of my problem...even after he was informed by my states attorneys office!
Now be nice and drop it the comment is gone and it is over
as for your comment about you hope I'm not a twin...well as a matter of fact I was a twin...my twin was killed by a drunk driver 2 days after we graduated HS...so for future reference you might want to keep those kinds of nasty comments to yourself....my comment was said in jest and is something that could never possibly happen!
There is a tremendous difference in saying something when a person does not know your family history though I must say with all your talk about your dear grandfather you've never mentioned your dear departed twin. I'm sorry if it hurt you. My apologies.
Are you sorry about what you wished Perry Jerome Post?
I turned that issue over to the States Attorney's off ice and the Federal Trade Commission, what they choose to do to him is entirely up to them
as for my comment if you knew me you'd know it was a joke, I have a vert twisted sense of humor and I felt the conversation was getting out of hand, usually an absolutely absurd comment like the one I made makes normal people laugh and go what was that and changes the subject...Kinda like when I say in a dead pan voice...Oh I broke a nail, I am so distraught I must go lie down now....and then go back to what I was doing....because normally people stop what ever they were talking about, look at you and go what was that and crack up laughing....which is what almost everone did with my initial comment except you....I am sorry it offended you
so in the future I will remember to keep my personality and sense of humor to myself if I notice that you are on the thread
Yes I talk about my grandfather alot, he was a huge influence, he was also the only adult in my childhood who protected me or tried to when he knew something was going on...but when you have your nose broken 8 times before your 5th birthday it isn't pretty
No I don't talk about my twin...our relationship was strained at best, violent at worst and I still have mixed feelings about his death...I find it a mixed blessing as he did not handle our childhood well and had problems, I just hope he is at peace....someday maybe that pain will subside and talking about him will become easier
Just wondering... has anybody heard from Jerome recently? I tried to go to their website today and it's not working. I don't know if it's a server problem or if he closed the online store. There is also no longer a listing on eBay. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!
Haven't tried Koi since August, Evey. Sorry.
It was posted on another website that Koi is out of business. It's too bad, I think he really had good intentions, and just got overwhelmed. I feel badly for the people that didn't get their plants, or money back, also.
I guess I best stop waiting on my refund then. Anyone who steals money from others should not be in business! I wonder how many he ripped off when he closed.
I reported him to the fraud unit with google. They refunded me my money and right after that he was shut down.
GOOD FOR YOU! And I am so glad you got your money back.
I heard he had so many complaints on PayPal they shut him down too.
So google has a fraud unit? How does that work?
http://checkout.google.com/support/bin/request.py?contact_type=claimb
If you paid by google check out here is a link to file for a refund
Lori
See, I wondered about that when he moved his store over to Google. In setting up business, the card processing companies are very clear about the delivery and notice requirements. If you are taking money for a plant to be delivered in the future, they treat it basically like you are selling tickets for a concert. When someone buys a ticket for a concert, they are told that the concert will occur in the future, but they are paying a price now for the privilege of reserving their seat (in this case reserving their plant) for a certain delivery date. Your payment now is justified because of the preparation and expense it takes to produce the concert. For prepaid plant sales, you're paying ahead of time for the vendor to expend money and time preparing your plant for the future delivery. For extremely hard-to-find cultivars, it also works just like a concert... you are in essence commiting your money for the assurance that the highly sought-after plant (or seat at the concert) is yours and no one else's. But, it's only allowed by the processing companies if you state a specific delivery period and stand by that. If something unforeseen happens, like the singer gets sick (or your crop is affected by weather), you have to offer a refund with or without additional options (such as a rescheduled concert or new delivery date for the plants). Regardless of any other options, a refund has to be immediately offered. Jerome openly told people he was not returning money to people who ordered earlier until he made more current sales.... which is completely contrary to how the model above works.
It's really convenient to set up as a PayPal vendor, and I'm glad the option is there. But. I've learned the hard way more than once that PayPal only gives short-term protection. Using a VISA to pay, even if you are going through PayPal, is MUCH safer. It costs PayPal more to accept your payment through VISA, which is why they encourage everybody to tie their PayPal account to their checking account. PayPal will say your transaction clears faster and you'll get faster shipment of your goods if you have immediate payment from your checking account. That's true... but if you are ordering something for future delivery, why would a few days faster processing of your payment make any difference?!
EDIT: Well, I'm confused... I just looked at the DG Marketplace and there are plenty of listings by KoiGardenClub. When you click on the link to his feedback on the Marketplace ad, there are only two responses. But, if you look him up in Garden Watchdog, there are many, many more negatives reviews. Why does the Marketplace only show two responses rather than all of them? Anybody know?
This message was edited Nov 21, 2009 12:15 PM
OMG!~ I am going to be sick!
I love Dave's Gardeners,
and this is just for you!
(Honestly, tell everybody! You folks are great at getting
things done and I need to generate a few more funds
to pay for this big order due at the end of April!)
2 Year Guarantee - I don't care if your dog killed it or whatever. I'll back it,
but you MUST save the packing slip to verify your purchase,
and you MUST send the plant back, dead or alive, to get credit.
Full or partial refunds, store credits, or replacement plants, your choice.
He has such nerve. What a total rip off and liar. I am in shock that Dave's Garden allows him to lie like this when Dave Garden members have been so ripped off by him.
WHAT A SCAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So he needs to generate a few more fund to pay for a big order, HUH? What about paying back people you stole from.
THIS IS SO AMAZIMG. I am so disgusted. He is not even ashamed of stealing from people. He is not even sorry!
Evey, I don't know that the marketplace has feedback, are you maybe looking at his trading feedback? There are two negatives on there. I think the member feedback should be used for trades, and everyone who sells should have a garden Watchdog page for feedback on sales. I never thought about it before, it is kind of confusing. I know I have feedback for trades on my member page, and feedback for sales on my Garden Watchdog place, but it appears Kois are overlapping.
Polly, yep, it was the two negaives on the trading feedback link that I saw. The sad thing is, many people click out without ever reading the feedback. DG feels like home and therefore safe to so many people.
True, Evey. But everyone should check the Garden Watchdog. There's a nice search feature on there. If you go to Garden Watchdog, then go to search, and specializing in, and put in plants: clematis, then sort by, and put in ratings, it comes up with the best rated clematis nurseries. Or, of course you can just sort by the nursery name, if you are considering buying from them.
But of course, Koi was unique, his ratings went up and down, and it was really hard to tell what was going on. But before I purchased from Koi, I probably would have checked Garden Watchdog, and gone with a company like Brushwood, or Silverstar, with so many positives.
This message was edited Nov 21, 2009 7:55 PM
I always check the Garden Watchdog before I buy. The problem comes in when you buy from someone who has a good name and you've bought from before and had good experiences but something happens and it all goes to a hot place in a handbasket very quickly. About the only thing to halfway protect you from that is to use a credit card, I suppose.
I was lucky in that he only owed me a couple/three or so plants when he went under and I am not out much money. I know others who were not so lucky.
Yes, I always use a credit card, even when paying through Paypal, just for that reason.
Under those circumstances, Diane, I guess there's not much you can do to avoid the problem, other than paying by credit card. But hopefully it doesn't happen too often that someone that has a high rating goes downhill fast.
I did 2 co-ops with KOI last spring.Jerry was inundated with orders and overdid somewhere, many orders were late and some arrived in such poor condition I had to pot and leave for a month to see if anything was going to grow from the clem co-op.
Clems and perennials.
Clems all died and a few of the perennials(oriental poppies) lived,but so many plants were a loss I have signed off on co-ops alltogether except RosyDawn coleus and Bill's Caladiums.
Oh that is too bad, ge1836. We can add your name to the many he screwed. I do not blame you being gun shy now. I feel badly for all of us who got taken.
I was in the Rosy Dawn coop too. It was great! I hope we have another this year. Rosy Dawn is such a professional operation.
I dont believe the KOI disaster was deliberate, just Jeromes reach excedded his grasp.
Yea, over and over and over once again over a span of about a year if not more! Poor Jerome. Kept collecting that money and delivering sick or dead plants. I just think of all those out there who do not belong to DG and got screwed and have not had a way to say boo about it.
I filed my report not only with paypal and my state and local officials....but I also asked the guy at Social security what I should do since I am on permanent disability....I don't know what he did but I got my refund with in 16 hours of talking to him, I wish I had saved the letter that was sent with it
Just in time for the Holidays! Glad to hear you got your money.
Happy Holidays
Lori :)