Sorry to get off track with the pot. I will start a new thread with pictures of one step by step when I get in the garden this weekend.
As for KOI, still waiting for my paypal refund....
Looking for info on KOI Gardens
Koi Gardens is a scam and whoever has gotten results from this person Jerome Post is one lucky gardener. I have contacted him by phone, email, thru Dave's Garden and have been totally ripped off. My next step is to call Pay Pal as he has my money, and he needs to be shut down. I've been in touch legally, but to my dismay they refer me back to Pay Pal or that awful, Jerome Post. Two months ago I received an email from someone who claimed to be his sister. Said that I would be receiving my order. Never happened.
Buyer beware, he's no good at all.
No good at all! Strell, I hope you leave him negative feedback on the Garden Watchdog. http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/c/6338/
His latest promise is he will send out orders he screwed up on in the fall but all the while he is taking new orders and filling them now or so he says. LOL
is that ok with you guys to get them clems months and months after ordering? my position would be i might want to deal with a small liner plant in the spring, but def not in the fall as i am not set up to winter over in pots, and liner plant in a gallon pot would def need to be handled correctly over a hard winter to survive. also i would have probably already found the clem(s) somewhere else in the meantime if it was one i really wanted.
i guess getting the small plants months and months after ordering is better than nothing, but the care and success rate is entirely different receiving late summer to fall vs spring to early summer.
He can keep his plants as far as I'm concerned, Spring or Fall. He is a scam artist and to be taking orders is bizarre, and who is he fooling now. I want a refund and get no response in any way. Guess I'm out the cash and the plants.
I learned a lesson.
I think you have to be in his private club to get good plants. The rest of us suckers subsidize the others it seems. Lucky them. LOL
i know what you mean kell. i finally ordered from koi in the spring as some of the folks were so positive about the site and the sale....even tho i have not historically a big liner buyer, the price hooked me in finally.
i got mine so promptly, no out of stock, all one shipment. while that was positive when people started reporting their problems, it made me feel i was getting special treatment because i post on clem forums a lot, and that did not sit well with me.
i do not expect favoritism from an on line site. my local nursery's , well that is different where i am a face to face customer and i know them! hahah, but i get a friendly greeting when i enter, but no special treatment. stand in line with everyone else!
i am with you about how he can still be taking orders. the only way he should take orders, owing so many folks refunds or clems, in my opinion would be to ship the clems and then let the customer send him the money!
I thought I would chime in here and say that I think Jerome started with good intentions and got in way over his head. I received my orders from him and although liners almost all of them did well. I put mine in the ground right away. I do not think you got yours right away as special treatment ClematisGuru. I think at best is was pure luck, because I received mine and I hardly ever post here , I mostly lurk. I also placed some large orders.
I think that he could of fessed up earlier about the troubles and been better about communications. I hope that he is able to do what he says and either get the money back to everyone or plants.
This message was edited Aug 10, 2009 1:38 PM
well then it is just all about inconsistency. buyer beware i guess.
At this point I think you are absolutely correct.
I'll be going with Donahue's liners from here on out. A few dollars more apiece but they shipped my order immediately and they looked wonderful when I received them. I was very pleased with that.
donahues is very credible and reliable as far as business ethics. their plants have gotten a lot better over the years and the selection is ok too!
What is a few dollars more compared with no plants, no refund? LOL. It has been months!
My thoughts exactly, Kell. You know the old saying about the bird in the hand being worth two in the bush...well....whoever said that had a whole lot of sense.
LOL. So true, Diana! And now I have empty places I was saving for those clematis on my rose arbors for another season. Poor me. LOL
I'm thrilled. My Koi package of clematis arrived today and they're all in great shape.
The waiting was a killer but the reward of 50% extra in plants of my choice was wonderful.
My wish would be that everyone who ordered from Koi will eventually be as happy as I am.
This guy is a joke. And I am challenging his BS!
I just discovered he left this on my negative comment on the The Garden Watchdog:
Company representative comment on August 17, 2009:
On Aug 3, 2009 2:15 PM, Koi Garden Club responded with:
Hello everybody and thank you for your orders. Hopefully your garden season is going well.
I owe all of you an apology, plants, or refunds. My apologies, I screwed up severely this season by spreading myself too thin. There was concern that I wasn't going to be
able to survive on the plant sales alone so I took a part time job. In the process I lost control of my inventory and operations. I ended up selling plants I no longer had, and
lost time to keep in communications. New plants were ordered in, and are in stock, but I have spent all my reserve shipping funds mailing out back orders. Things have been
spiraling out of control so this is an email to let you all know what is happening on this end.
I have every desire to honor your orders/refunds, but am completely out of funds at the moment. I am shipping new orders as they come in and working my way backwords in the back order pile.
I am offering a 50% additional items out of any items listed on my updated website, http://KoiGardenClub.com for those of you folks who don't mind waiting for your plants to be shipped sometime between now and the end of the season. If you have 4 items on back order, pick out an additional 2. If you have 2 items, pick out an additional 1, etc. My goal is to buy some more time while I get back on my feet.
If you are in need of your refund instead of extra plants, I simply don't have it right now. Please know that I am trying to ship and refund ALL back orders and will continue to whittle away at these pending issues as funds become available. If you need to file complaints with whatever organizations you feel necessary, I fully understand. It was my lack of planning and poor organization that put us in this hole. Also know that I am not retalitory. If you file complaints and post negative reviews I will still get your refund to you, but I just don't have the money right now.
As stated above, all new orders are shipping out right away in an effort to reverse this trend.
Again, my apologies for allowing it to get this bad.
Respectfully,
Perry Jerome Post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Aug 17, 2009 8:44 PM, Koi Garden Club added:
Hello Kell,
It has been the worst year I've ever experienced selling plants and admit that I screwed up by not answering emails in a timely fashion. Now that I am in the process of trying to fix the situation with customers that are still waiting, please send me your last name so that I may track down your order. I'm not sure who you are behind your Dave's Garden identity.
There is an imposter customer bad-mouthing me at GardenWeb so I want to make sure it is not happening here at Dave's too. You can send your name to email "KoiGardenClub at gmail.com". Thank you.
HIS POSTING THIS IS SO ODD FOR I HAD DMAILED HIM BACK 45 MINUTES before he left this on the The Garden Watchdog asking yet again for a full refund. SO ODD he did not dmail me back requesting this info. Instead he ignored my dmail, yet again.
This is my response:
On August 25th, 2009, Kell added the following:
I just found this comment left by Koi Garden Club club that sounds so reasonable on the surface. I wonder why posters are not notified of vendor responses.
This note he pens to me is dated Aug. 17 at 8:44 PM which just happens to be the exact day and 45 minutes after I sent this guy a dmail in response to his dmail to me wanting to send me clems and telling him once again I want a full refund. So odd he never answered that dmail and he sure didn't ask me for the info he asks for in this post to me. ALL FOR SHOW!
Of course he knows who I am. I have posted on the Rose Forum and also the Clematis Forum about my interaction with him or lack of his with me as well as all my emails to him.
So lets just see, I will now dmail him yet again thru here at his DG name KoiGardenClub
as well as to the email he posted and give him my name as he asks and lets see how long it takes for him to give me this refund which by the way he has promised me so many times before.
I have not posted on the Garden Web about this guy but what a great idea.
I have just dmailed him and emailed him the info he requested YET AGAIN! Lets see how long before I get a full refund.
beyond comprehension. buyer beware again.
I would order from him again. I know the wait was long but the plants are healthy and most are a foot long. Since I posted above the plants have grown an inch or more each.
Kell, I'd figured you had your money by now, I hate that you're still fighting him. I can't believe anyone on DG that has been through or read about all of this would ever order from him again. Not in a million years. He never stops does he? Guess I better check my watchdog report too. I was lucky to get my money back, just pure luck & I am thankful but many people haven't and that's fraud in my book. If you know your friends had been duped of their money & you still buy from him, well that's just wrong in my book. Until every order had been satisfied through plants or money back, then do so at your own risk. I'm thinking the Watchdog should have a "10 Worst Vendors List", he'd be number one.
I ordered from Koi garden in May before I read all the negative comments people were writing . I did not have a large order and while I was not happy about the situation I did not feel the amount of money warranted my wrath. I also remember a time in my life when I had more obligations and responsibilies than I had hours in the day and financial problems as well. (It was not a buisness situation but I remember the pressure I was under). Initially it took him awhile to get an answer to my Email but when he did he was very nice and said I could wait for my order or refund but it would be awhile and if I felt I had to report him to payPal or whoever he understood. I chose to wait for my order and I chose and extra plant as he promised and my order came last Friday. They were small liners ( as I expected) but had very good roots. I think he made some mistakes but he is trying to make things right . It will take some time to resolve this situation he got into. If people feel thay want to report him do it. Then let it go I don't think it is healthy to hang on to the anger.
Actually I'm not angry about my clems. Disappointed with the way things have gone, certainly. Upset that some here bought from Koi on my recommendation and have had horrendous experiences, absolutely.
Honestly it makes no difference to me whether I ever get the clems, couldn't care less anymore. I just wish the DGers here were all taken care of like they should have been months ago.
No such luck, Debbie. I had gone to a better place than where this joker is and then he dmails me. Then I find out he wrote that ridiculous note to me on Garden Watchdog instead of answering my dmail back to him. Trying to insinuate I am some crazy from The Garden Web! He is just playing games all for show. Trying to rehabilitate his name so he can sell more plants.
Diana, are you still out of pocket too? I am sorry, you were a true believer in him too.
This guy is a riot. He just emailed me and said he is broke. LOL.
I believe what happened is after he began screwing people, he started getting all that negative feedback on The Garden Watchdog and his incoming money went down. I do not think he had realized how The Garden Watchdog would affect his income. So he started this POOR ME campaign and after totally ignoring people for months started emailing them all.
No where does it say that I have to lend this guy my money for now 8 MONTHS! I have told him over and over and over again I want a refund. He just emailed me and again asked if I want a refund which he says he is too broke to give. LOL Either he has hundreds of unhappy customers so he cannot keep us all straight or he is using this technique to buy more time hoping I will give up.
To add injury to insult his website still says:
Koi Garden Club Mission Statement:
To create a pleasant online community where members enjoy reading and writing about plants, ponds, and fish; and to provide a garden shopping resource with 100% customer satisfaction backed by a
2 Year Absolute Satisfaction Guarantee.
I think I finally understand what he is saying there, you have to be miserable with him and his service for 2 whole years before he honors his obligations. Absolutely! LOL
And I am angry. Why wouldn't I be? The way he has treated me and continues to treat me is horrendous.
Hi, everyone - I've been watching the thread and for some reason I decided to order from him. I really needed to start with clems and his prices were really good, so I emailed him and said I knew from DG that he had been having some issues and
asked him if they were cleared up, he said yes, I ordered 4, last week, sent email yesterday asking when I might expect them and he told me he's sent them priority mail Sunday (?) and they got here today. They're all in great shape, except for my "Purpurea Plena Elegans" and it's not terrible, just looks a little stressed and like maybe the vine got broken. Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I had a good experience with
Koi and I'm hoping he's making the long trek back on his feet again.
He said the DG issues have been cleared up??
Well, he didn't actually say they were cleared up, but that he was working as fast as he could to get them cleared up. And he promised my order would be shipped asap and
he came through, which is why I think he got a good report initially, because he wasn't
always on the "bad list". Anyway, I'm really sorry for everyone's issues with him. I've
been on the bad end of something like this and it is SO frustrating! I was just hoping
by reporting what my experience was, maybe there's hope for the people that haven't
been satisfied.
guess it is a roll of the dice who gets satisfied and who doesn't.
I guess. I really hope he gets everything back on track. I can just imagine being in his shoes and making what turn out to be wrong decisions and then having to try to wade
through all the unhappy customers and trying to get back on top of things. Sounds like
his business wasn't doing very well, he took another job to supplement and then his
business took off. He should've quit the job sooner, maybe!
Of course, I have no way of knowing for sure, but I think Jerome's biggest downfall was the big sale, which was very foolish in my book. He did not anticipate that the word would get outside of Dave's Garden into another huge forum. A dream scenario for an established business for sure, but not for someone just starting up.
I imagine, though I could be wrong on this too, he was under a lot of pressure to make his business a success, especially with the birth of his child and wanting to be able to support his family. The economy downturn made nearly everyone nervous, and I'm sure it affected him as well. A combination of poor judgment, fear, and a big dose of hearty enthusiasm lead to his problems. Eyes wide open enthusiasm is good, blind enthusiasm is not.
Disclaimer: I do not know him personally, this is just what I have gathered from everything he said.
was that the 5$ clem sale? hard to make $ at a 5$ price point on anything.....
Not if they are dead when you send them. $5 is pretty good to get rid of your dead plants. They also were in 2 inch pots.
I would feel sorry for him and believe this all except for the fact that he lied to me a couple of times and then totally ignored my emails as well as so many other people's emails and their phone calls too.
When you have been stung along for literally months it is bit hard to get too sympathetic. He burned too many people and did not get care until so many negative feedbacks showed up on The Garden Watchdog. Then suddenly it was poor me.
i feel bad for everyone who got the short end of the stick, and it must be embarrassing for those who have vouched for him. problems are problems ,but the ducking and evading and still being in business is beyond my comprehension.
but there are may things i do not understand, this among them.
I thought he was charging $6 each, but if he was having them shipped to him from the grower, I think it would have been impossible for him to make any money at all. The cost for the 4" liners plus shipping is right at $5 each... sometimes higher depending on the cultivar. Then he would have inventory shrinkage due to some plants being too small or iffy to send to customers. If he was picking them up in person from the grower, it still would be difficult to make any profit at all at that price point. Plus, he stated early on that he had lost a huge amount of his inventory due to trying to overwinter them unsuccessfully. The only way he could have made money at that price point is if he had planned to purchase the 2.5" liners or 50-cell packs from a grower, but even those are only about $1 less per clem. Making $1 per plant doesn't even cover the bigger pots plus the labor to grow those cell packs out. Very poor planning, indeed.
Deborah, Why would anyone be embarrassed for leaving positive feedback for a positive purchase? I feel bad too for those who are still waiting for refunds or plants from Koi Gardens from the co-op or direct orders from his sight. My experience with them has always been positive and I don't feel I should be embarrassed for posting my experience with his company. He is solely responsible for his business practices. I hope he can turn things around and restore his reputation which he has damaged here and I certainly hope we can continue to have co-ops that support clematis. I'll be glad when all this is over with and we can return to the clematis forum to enjoy our love of clematis.
Arlene
This message was edited Aug 27, 2009 7:21 PM
I agree, Arlene.
Garden Watchdog and the forums would be of no value if we hesitated to post our positive reviews merely because others had negative experiences. Our descriptions of our experiences have to be truthful to be of any value, and as much as we might sympathize with the people who had problems, there is nothing embarrassing about telling the truth.
You are both right about feedback of course but I think what she meant was it must be embarrassing for those of us who recommended that people here buy from him (such as the thread I started in the Roses Forum about the sale in December) and who then saw people take that recommendation and proceed to have a horrible experience.
And she is right. I was a staunch supporter of KGC. Now I am upset with the outcome of that thread and feel at least partially responsible for Kell's (and other's) predicaments. To the point that I would have happily shared with Kell half of the clems that I did receive so that she would at least have something to plant.
It just makes you feel bad. Nurseries go belly up a lot these days but knowing that isn't much comfort and won't fill the empty spots on Kell's trellises or the one in her bank account.
I can only hope that Jerome will somehow pull it together and come through for everyone.
yes diana. i got my small order ok some tim ago, but if i had recommended him to friends, i would feel horrible that they had bought via my recommendation and then had this happen. that's all, that's the way i would feel. and there are and were recommendations given even as we knew about this status and all the folks out there waiting for plants, refunds or even communication.
but that's just me.
my feelings exactly, I feel awful that I actually encouraged folks to buy from him, though my sentiments at the time were positive. but enough of that, what's done is done, I can't go back, only hope that everyone is treated fairly in the end.
People are getting clems again so that's a good sign that he is trying.
It would be nice to have a way of knowing when things are going to go south but I'll tell ya, my crystal ball is a lemon and hindsight is always 20/20.
well, probably happens more often with start ups, but i hear ya re crystal ball. mine is a little cloudy.....