Looking for info on KOI Gardens

This is a bad picture of a clem growing nicely, one of the plants I received from KOI.

This message was edited Jul 10, 2009 10:28 PM

you mean you ordered and paid for plants and never got them? this is horrible, i have heard of others having problems earlier in the spring with the same. summer delivery of tiny plants is a bad idea too......
they have a bad reputation for this. i ordered once this spring and received prompt shipment of decent little liners, maybe smaller than the ones i got from donahues, but arrived in good shape. i don't know if they gave me special treatment as i post a lot on the forum, that would be bad as far as i am concerned to be singling people out for better service.

is this the same web site as KOI Gardens? it is a little confusing, not sure if jerome is the same as KOI?

is the contact info listed on the watchdog? e mail jeanne from tx who posts a lot here on the forum, i think she is supportive of their business and may know how to get ahold of him. sorry this happened but i think it is the right thing to do to let others know, and maybe someone will help you out with the info to get ahold of them. good luck.

His Phone number is: 612-251-3998
or send a DMail:
http://davesgarden.com/members/KoiGardenClub/

Thanks guys.

This message was edited Jul 10, 2009 10:28 PM

Much to my dismay, he doesn't answer the phone & doubting he answers dmail. Thanks for all your help.
debbie

This message was edited Jul 10, 2009 10:29 PM

hummm.

one call to paypal, and ask for a : SUPERVISOR,
- paypal sup can and would, shut Perry Jerome Post down - immediately..

thank you 50!

the whole business model of ordering from some one who sells liners and reselling them is not a sustainable business model and then on top of it , selling for 6$ so discounted, i am sure this is a classic case history of a business not having a point of differentiation and the whole competitive landscape not needing another vendor, on top of no real plan or investment thought to the customer service side of it. if he charged when he shipped vs charge upon order may be this would not have happened and then folks would take what they get when they get and feel better about it. however, i like to know what i am getting , and when i am getting it, so i can quit looking for it elsewhere. plus having small plants arrive in mid summer always scary to me, bad way to start after they cooked in a box for a couple of days i a heat wave. this is why most placed so not ship in july and aug....
good luck guys, sorry this happened. it is a real bummer i am sure for those of you that got caught up in it like this, esp if you ordered because of the recommendations here on the dg site, of the i would be furious too.

good news!

This message was edited Jul 10, 2009 10:27 PM

Davis, I'm sorry you've had a problem with receiving your clematis from Koi Gardens. I've ordered many times from Jerome and have always received clematis that I've been happy with that grow out into wonderful plants. I know he's had some family issues in the past he's had to deal with. I don't know the circumstances with your order but I'm sure there is a reason he hasn't been able to promptly fill your order or return your emails. Hope your issues are resolved soon.
Arlene

thanks Arlene, I know the first few orders I made went fine.

To update, Jerome has phoned & reimbursed me $200 into my paypal account. Thanks for the doing the right thing Jerome.
Debbie

I'm certain that Jerome is simply overwhelmed with the orders he's taken on, and that he's not planning to abscond with anyone's funds. I also know he's not singling people out for special treatment: All three of my Clematis orders and an order for Lily bulbs were filled promptly and with no errors earlier this year, and I doubt that I've contributed more than one post a year to this particular forum. If he stays in business, he'll continue to have my business. I trust him completely.

I totally agree ZuZu, I placed an order this week and have every confidence my order will be filled.
Arlene

I'm glad & can't wait to see how things go from here.







This message was edited Jul 17, 2009 9:01 AM

Gosh, Debbie, you know I'm not the authoritarian type. I think you should do whatever you want to do with your own posts and threads.

Debbie..I am so glad you were honest and reported that Jerome reimbursed your money.That should show that Jerome is an honest person and moral...thanks...Jeanne

Believe me, it was my pleasure!

I just want to warn people here that this vendor Koi Garden Club and this Jerome has ripped people off including me. So if you are considering ordering from him make sure you read his bad feedback on The Garden Watchdog. http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/c/6338/

I ordered clematis from him after reading a thread on the Rose Forum.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/931624/

The plants were dormant when I received them. 3 finally grew 1 small shoot that promptly died, the others never came out of dormancy. 3 had root mealy.

The vendor admitted his own clematis from the same batch were all dead too and promised me a refund. Then he disappeared and refused to answer my emails. This has been over months.

I have heard from 2 other people from the Rose Forum thread that they too got dead clematis/incomplete orders from him and had to fight hard to get refunds. He did his disappearing act on them too. The initiator of that thread has had terrible experiences with this guy too after initiating the thread recommending him.

I heard he bought out his partner last year. Makes you wonder who was really the honest vendor of the 2, doesn't it?

Kell, you keep going till you've been refunded. Just because I got my money back doesn't make it ok for anyone who hasn't. I suggest calling the number listed
612-251-3998. That may be the thing that worked for me. Let me know how I can help you & I will. Debbie

No one deserves to be ripped off like this.

Oh Debbie, I am not going to waste anymore of my time on this guy or have his bad energy around me. He knows what he needs to do. Everyone I know who has dealt with him over dead plants or incomplete orders has had to hound him and hound him for their rightful refund. To me that does not make a hero if and when he finally does give that refund. I think it sucks actually to make people fight for what is rightfully theirs. People deal with him in good faith.
I will make a complaint with Paypal as you suggest and also leave bad feedback for his other company just to warn others.

I went to PayPal earlier today to review my transaction with him and I found I sent my money to a Perry Post. Then I saw Evey's post about Koi Garden Club being affiliated with Plantkingdom.com whose site actually had an email address to a Perry Post. So I emailed Perry Post for a refund. Then after, I found his post on the Rose Forum saying he, Jerome is really Perry Post. LOL. So confusing.

So I am going to leave feedback at his other site too on Garden Watchdog.

My favorite part is reading his website where he says:

"To create a pleasant online community where members enjoy reading and writing about plants, ponds, and fish; and to provide a garden shopping resource with 100% customer satisfaction backed by a 2 Year Absolute Satisfaction Guarantee."

LOL ABSOLUTE! ABSOLUTE CRAPOLA!!

ditto

I was just answering some posts on the Rose Forum about this transaction and thought I would update here too. I also went back and copied the email Jerome or Perry Post sent to me where he tells me his own clematis died too.

According to The Garden Watchdog in the last 12 months he has 13 negatives, 6 neutrals which seem to be from unhappy customers too and only 7 positives.
http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/c/6338/
And think of all the people who do not even post in The Garden Watchdog.

What gets me is he even admits he sent out bad plants. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=6008540

I ordered from him also, what a mistake. I posted my experience on the garden watchdog.

I also ordered a couple clems from Bluestone perennials half price sales. They were healthy little plants when they arrived. They are growing quickly. Bluestone answers emails within 24 hours. They also have a toll free phone number for customer phone questions and problems. The difference between these two companies is night and day.

I agree, Krell, an "honest plantsman" would contact his customers if there were problems filling orders and would stop taking new orders if he couldn't fill the existing ones. An "honest plantsman" would return emails from his customers and answer his telephone when they call. An "honest plantsman" would never mail defective plants.

Based on the multiple experiences posted here and on the rose forum, i do no see how anyone can recommend , promote or continue to support this business. honest plantsmen have decent customer service and do not leave this wake of dissatisfaction and trail of complaints.
if they ship differently to friends or those they perceive as special customers, to me that makes it even worse that new customers get the short end of the stick.

on my way back from a clem trip to the pacific northwest (a few hours here at the sea tac airport) and looking forward to fully catching up with the dg clem world tomorrow.

Update on the dispute. I still haven't heard from Koi. I filed a complaint with paypal. They contacted the seller and closed the case. I have to wait to call them tomorrow to understand why. I wasn't given a refund, yet. Next is my credit card company and the post office for mail fraud. I want a response from the vendor and a refund. I hope this "honest plantsman" lands in jail for fraud.

this is extreme. it is beyond honesty and in to fraud and bad business practices. can you imagine how many folks are are out there if the number posting here is indicative? and if they are new to clems it is part of turning them off to clems...not just this supplier. a shame for sure.

He is still selling items on his site. He seems to be still taking orders. Perhaps hoping that the next buyers will fund our refunds.

If he were honest, he would at least put a message on his website about his difficulties. However, if he were honest, he wouldn't bill paypal for items he couldn't deliver.

It is so much work chasing after him. I have emailed him every way possible - his email address, Dave's mail, texting on the site, phoning....no response. It is taking an unbelievable amount of time to fight this person. What a nightmare. If anyone has successfully gotten a refund lately, please let me know how you did it.

I have tomatoes on the trellis that the clems were going to go. (I have the bf help dig holes before I get plants. Btw, he thinks that it is a great way to grow tomatoes. I KNOW better than to leave an empty hole. He would be furious if he battled the rocks for nothing.)

Like many gardeners, I have a vision of what the garden will be. I have empty spaces and tomatoes where I wanted to try some clems. I am especially upset about the ones that I was planning to put with my climbing roses. I wanted to plant them at the same time. Thanks to you, Clem Guru, I placed garden pots with other plants in them reserving the space. I was inspired by your liners.

I was happy with the liners from Bluestone. I have rubro, Josephine and Mayleen. I should have gotten more from their half price sale. There is always this fall or next year... I am making my wishlist based on the posts in the forum.

I didn't order from the other nursery sales of larger plants because of the shipping costs. I am willing to baby a quality "liner" to save costs. QUALITY is the operative word. Vendor suggestions are welcome.

I also got some clematis seeds in a trade. A couple have sprouted! I also rooted a branch of rubro that got bent in a storm. Gardening teaches patience and adaptability.

GardenQuilts I got some from that Bluestone sale too, very nice little plants at a great price! After that, I ordered 4 directly from Donahues. Also very nice little plants, and promptly shipped. I'll be ordering from them again, they have a nice selection and I don't mind waiting for them to grow from liner size. The roots were literally bursting from the bottom of the liners and they are now happily ensconced in gallon pots until they get a bit more growth and the weather cools down enough to safely plant them out.

hi garden quilts, too bad you got caught in the fraud by koi . don't understand why they finally refund some folks but do not contact and refund all who have not received shipment in a timely manner.

how well did your rubrio root from cuttings?

I just started rooting the rubro. It has some little roots. i need to get it in a pot. I just sterilized another batch of soil in the oven. I hope to get planting tomorrow.

I have been busy with personal things, and just getting back into the garden.

I reached Jerome on his im on the website last night. I cut and paste the text to the garden watchdog. He had me fill out a form to email back. He claimed to be helping another customer, I said that I didn't mind waiting. He disappeared. Of course, he didn't email.

A DG member wrote to me via dmail that he claimed to have lost his records. I will try certified mail (signature required) with copies on Monday. She also claimed that a friend is being paid back in installments. Maybe he is having money problems and hope that we will give up on the refunds.

THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN HERE. If he had returned my emails, refunded my paypal, sent an explanation for the unsent plants, I would be more understanding. If he is too busy to support his customers, he should stop his sale (supply and demand, higher prices, less sales) or stop taking orders altogether. He should only bill paypal for plants shipped. If he did this, he wouldn't be in trouble now.

I will continue to order from Bluestone. I have to have Guernsey Cream. I am not going to ship plants in the summertime. I will make my list, check it twice, and wait until spring.

you will love guernsey cream. it is so lovely and so low mantainence. it just takes care of itself, i do not prune mine, just a broken stem clem up when and if needed. of course i top dress it and fertilize, but it is truly an easy care clem that just gets better and better every year. certain things about the way it grows and mounds as it climbs remind me of asao. i have only had asao a couple of years an di can only hope my asao grows as big as my guernseys have!
thanks for posting the detail gardenquilts, hope you get resolution. it sounds pretty bad for them as a business with all this coming out.

Anyone trying to reach them can try the instant messenger on their web page late at night-around midnight est (link from the watchdog page). I was able to reach him the past two nights. Last night and he answered my questions this time. (Maybe he is reading these threads???) I believe that he is having cash flow problems. He agreed to send me a refund as soon as more orders come in, maybe by the end of next week. Yikes. I cut and paste the conversation to the watchdog page. I am trying to be fair. A negative rating is serious and can seriously affect a business. I don't make it lightly. He has lost all credibility with me by providing no followup to the orders and ignoring all emails and phone calls. I just want my money back. In the future, I will order from well reviewed businesses THAT HAVE BEEN IN BUSINESS FOR A WHILE.

For now, since clematis offerings locally are potentially mislabeled varieties dying in big box stores, if I order more, it will be from Bluestone or perhaps, Donahues. my Bluestone labels said Donahues. I requested a catalog from them, but haven't received it. I couldn't find prices on their website,it just led me to paypal.

As to paypal. I just joined it and have only a handful of transactions. I am very unhappy with their resolution system. Luckily I paid by credit card. At this point, I would only use paypal with trusted individuals. I would feel more comfortable using credit card with vendors. (Most vendors would also, because the rates are lower. Unless they can't qualify for credit card processing at the bank.....)

I am on a limited income. I am recovering from a severe auto accident, living on disability and freelance design and writing work as I work on a graduate degree. I have a limited plant budget. I thought I was purchasing quality plants from Koi, as per the raving reviews on this site. Instead, I was making a high risk investment in an ill planned start up company. What a nightmare.

If I lived in Minnesota, I would arrange to go there in person and get my plants if he couldn't give a refund. (People in MN with cash in hand could probably get a great deal from him, and choose living plants, if he has any.)

Buying plants mail order sight unseen depends on trust and reliability. This company has no credibility with me.

I hope they are able to turn this around and stay in business (and hire staff and purchase business insurance in case of rodent damages) at least long enough to pay all of the refunds. I will not be their customer. Not after this.

Update on the cuttings. I read either in this forum or the rose forum about using an aquarium bubbler to aerate cuttings. I put sterilized perlite (oven sterilized) and boiled then cooled filtered water in a Barbie aquarium. (Found when walking my dog on bulk pickup nights.)

I makes sense that cuttings may root better in aerated water. It may also prevent some fungus. So far, so good.

Let us know how the water roots transition to soil roots. Many are interested but there is no scientific info availabe about this as water roots are different and can not use soil to grow.
I have spoken to a couple of experts who do not grow clems commercially or propagate/sell them either and my understanding is that water roots to soil is not a viable propagation method for clematis.
Please keep us informed. With pics too as u go thru the process????

I just took pics of rubro. Been busy with personal issues including civil complaints and restraining order against a neighbor. After politely requesting three times that their dog be on a leash and reminding them that it is required by the town ordinance, I sent video of said dog to the town. In retaliation she threatened me and sprayed my back garden with weed killer (in full view of the security camera). Tape 2 to town. I really don't have the time or the patience to deal with infantile, drunken idiots. I have been looking for a larger place with more garden space, I am looking harder now.

Part of rubro was broken off when a trellis fell. (I am not paranoid, but there were footprints in my garden that don't match my garden shoes). After repairing the trellis and buying several more small security cameras, I put the broken branch in water in the budget aerator. When I finally had time to check it, it had started to root. (I should have taken pictures of the roots, but didn't. There were two short roots about the thickness of the stem. I know they were new because I trimmed rubro before putting it in water.)

I was wondering if I should cut the cutting back and try to root some of the other pieces. I am pleasantly surprised that it is surviving. The leaves didn't even wilt. I don't want to send it into shock or anything.

The main plant of rubro and it's companion rose, William Baffin, have survived the trellis 'accident". I guess crazy neighbors is another reason to select hardy cultivars.

Here is a photo of my budget self watering pot. The brown stick in the photo is bamboo.

GardenQuilts, are the contents of your self watering pot, from the bottom up, water;
water crystals and the plant in soil? Do I also see somthing red in the water? could that be part of the plant's root. Thanks

confussedlady

I'm so glad you asked this question, I'd like to know more too!

Oh, no. Nothing nearly that complicated. The water is brown because some of the dirt is washing thru. I cut the bottle in half, put a square of mesh over the hole, put potting soil mixed with a bit of manure in the top and watered it. I tried a muslin square over the hole in another one. I think that works better. I dump the water out on other plants every couple of days. I haven't had to water with the rain.

I have some more bottles to cut. I will try to remember to take step by step pictures. I am not sure if I like these 'planters", but the price is right. I really like the self watering window boxes that I got from Walmart. I am watching the end of season sales for more. I m experimenting with starting plants from seed, propagating roses and plants, winter sowing, etc. I am constantly on the lookout for cheap or free flower pots. At the same time, I am saving my pennies for some of the beautiful hand thrown pots made by a local artist.

hthttp://www.mudworkspotterypa.com/Site/Home.html
http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5287559§ion_id=5233707

Rubro still looks ok in the pot today. I will see if he lives. Do you think I should cut him back? I seem to be doing everything wrong, but he is still alive. The leaves haven't even wilted. I don't want to send him into shock. It has been rainy and the soil has been wet. Maybe that is making a difference.

When I planted him, the new roots were just starts of new stems, only white. I didn't take any pictures, but I should have. It wasn't in water long enough to make lots of tiny roots.

Thanks for mentioning the viability issues with water roots, CG. Maybe clems should be started directly in sterile soil/vermiculite/coir like roses? My first attempt at that was unsuccessful, but that is a topic for another forum.