I need help picking long-lived plants

That's the one! Thanks, Hart.

Happy, I've been struggling with some of the same issues (minus the slope!) as you. With the big rains we've been getting, I've had standing water in my shady backyard which has similar light conditions as the spot in your yard that you're talking about. I, too, am looking for year-round interest. I'll have to give this some more serious thought and come back when I've got something to add! :)

I wanted to mention that four o'clocks do not reliably re-seed in my backyard and I wonder if it is related to it being a fairly shady (and moist) site...

Don't think it's the shade, Wrightie. They've overwintered and self sowed in shade here, but it was pretty dry shade. They are really late to emerge in the spring but I'm sure they would be up by now.

Yeah, I don't get it because this particular area, albeit somewhat shady is not an extremely wet site either. All I know is that they have not done as well here as I'd have expected.

Wrightie, How nice to hear from you how are things going?
Hart, My sensitive ferns are about 18 inches.
Happy, What about Bloody Dock? I don't know much about it but I will say that is has been a beautiful addition to my shade bed. I got some at one of the swaps. Think maybe Critters fall swap and I wasn't sure I wanted it. I thought it would be a sun plant and it looked a bit like one of my nasty weeds. But I brought it home and last fall stuck it in the shady bed behind the potting shed along with quite a few other plants. The intent was just to get them in the ground before winter. WOW have I ever developed a liking for it. Looks great in my shade bed and how I could have thought I would have mistaken it for one of those weeds I will never know.

I've never tried growing them anywhere except where it was real dry and they have always done real well here. Maybe it was the variety? I grew Limelight and Broken Colors. Or try them in a spot that is real dry.

If they don't overwinter for you, you can dig up the tubers and save them to replant in the spring just like dahlias. Or just shake the plants with a trashbag underneath and save the seeds to plant yourself in the spring.

Thanks, Holly. I used to have some really tall ferns in the bed where the clustered bellflowers are growing. They never did well and petered out after a few years, too dry for them there I'm sure. I have no idea what kind of ferns they were, they were given to me by someone.

Wrightie: Wonderful to hear from you. I hope all is well with you and that beautiul doggie and DH.

Holly: The Bloody Dock may have been from me -- I really like it. It does, however, reseed voractiously, so that would not be the spot for it, since it is hard to reach to deadhead.

Would Crocosmia work in my spot? What about Hart's favorite, clustered bellflower?

Maybe I should just put down some artificial turf and be done with it!

I wondered if the Bloody Dock might have come from you as we were both at the swap and it was just a small one, but thought it was worth mentioning in case. Plus I was out working in that bed and looking at it and thinking about how much I like it.

The clustered bellflower isn't very tall when it isn't blooming - maybe 6 inches or so. And it will eventually spread so you need to either pull the extras or enclose the roots in something to keep them contained. I have that black plastic bed border stuff that goes a few inches into the soil and comes in rolls. That's enough to keep it in bounds.

I love crocosmia. I never have figured out what conditions it likes, apparently. I had some growing in a spot where it was very dry, it wasn't doing too well. I moved it to a spot where it got more moisture and it's not doing well there either. But it sure is pretty.

I was looking at a magazine last night and there was a photo of a veronica with flowers in a pale pink. That was just beautiful. The color was very delicate but it worked with the spiky flowers and against the dark green leaves. It was "Pink Damask."

http://www.estabrooksonline.com/images/highres/pink_damask.jpg Not finding a photo online that captures the color like that magazine photo but this is fairly close.

"Pink Damask" really is pretty. I also like the Royal Candles you recommended earlier.

Holly: I really recommend deadheading the Bloody Dock -- I didn't realize that at the time I gave it to you!

Happy,

There are some interesting Euphorbias and Polemoniums -- not sure if that's what you're interested in. Also, I was rolling around the idea of some cotoneasters or beautyberry ...

year-round interest + long lived + good behavior + sloping = head scratching

:)

EDIT: Hmmm ... beautyberry may be a wee bit too tall ...

This message was edited Jun 19, 2009 6:37 PM

I already started. was out weeding around the dock and pulled the flower heads, Next time I will wait until I actually see what the flowers look like. I guess that was called live heading instead of dead heading. LOL

Happy, What about some Montauk Daisy?

Wrightie: Cotoneaster won't do -- it is pretty aggressive -- the former owners filled one of our slopes with it and it took some time to remove. And I can't do anything to tall. Polemonium are too short. (I realize I am being a complete pain on this.) Euphorbias -- that might work....

Stormy: Montauk Daisy -- that sounds like it might fit the bill -- foliage is nice even when the plant is not blooming. It does like well-drained soil -- the hill helps with that, but my soil isn't great, even with my dutiful attempts to amend, but I can be extra careful. I'll keep my eyes open for it! And I like that it won't be blooming when the daylilies are -- spread out the season.

This message was edited Jun 20, 2009 12:26 PM

Happy, I love euphorbias. Euphorbia martinii would be about the right size, it's one of the taller ones, has gorgeous red flowers in spring which are gorgeous within the bright green spring foliage. It's evergreen and turns a beautiful burgundy in the fall.

Maybe it will live longer for you. Mine lived about 7-8 years but you're a zone warmer than me. I found mine at Merrifield in Fairfax. I found that newer one at Webers, has pink in the foliage, very pretty. It doesn't get as tall as martinii, though.

The Montauk daisies that Sally gave me at the swap last year are doing very well and they're certainly not in very good soil. The foliage is very pretty. So are the daisies Gita gave me but I think they spread? I'll just betcha you could snag some from Sally.

Was looking for a photo of martinii and found this. Ooooooooo. Martinii looks like this except the blooms are a brighter red.
http://www.avondalenursery.co.uk/Content/Catalogue/Plants/EUPHORBIA-characias-Black-Pearl.asp
BTW, the one that Bluestone is selling is not the same martinii, it's a shorter one.

Yum!

Happy, Lowes gets a lot of Montauks but I haven't seen any yet this year. From what I hear, they are pretty indestructible. Mine are doing very well in a dry windy exposed spot. They would look nice with some Euphorbias. Euphorbias need more trimming. Montauks are pretty self maintaining.

You're not being a pain!

I have Tom Thumb cotoneaster which will not do anything even remotely close to aggressive behavior (I wish they would); they've barely done a thing in the five years they've been in the ground. That being said, the Tom Thumb's are not pretty enough imo to be a nice focal point for your spot. I've seen some gawgeous Cotoneasters in England, but I'm clueless as to the variety.

There are lots of groovy euphorbias - I'll have to go check out that link.

There are a couple of nice euphorbias I've been wanting to get for a while - Portugeuse Velvet and Royal Velvet. The leaves are velvety and such a pretty color. And that Blackbird that Debbie has - in major plant lust for that one.

Yes, Debbie has incredible Euphorbias! You (Hart) have the perfect climate for the too, no?

The rain is nuts, isn't it?

Most of the euphorbias like it dry, although some not as much as others, so yes, I have good conditions for them. But a lot of them are only listed as hardy to zone 7 and I'm zone 6.

Some things in my yard are just loving all this rain. A lot of the drought tolerant things are probably wondering what in the heck is going on. LOL And some, like the hollyhocks that are just eaten up with rust this year, aren't doing well at all.

The rain has really set back my daylilies. They are usually out in full force by now, but the current show is meager.

Mine are fine but I've moved most of them to the slope where it's very well drained.

It would help if there was the least amount of sun anywhere!

(starting my next swap haves list--Montauk Daisy for happy macomb)
I can share that for sure. Easy to grow and to root from cuttings, at least I got some to root this spring. I found them at Lowes in fall.
I also have a bloody dock of happy's.
I've seen the sensitive fern get to no more than 18 inches, tallest with moisture. Can't say how moist it needs. I have lost Ostrich fern to a dry location.
False Dragonhead is not especially pretty in foliage but it is tough, mildy spreading, erect and medium green stems all summer until the September bloom. Maybe a bit tall for you anyway tho.

Thanks a million, SallyG!

Thanks also for the False Dragonhead suggestion! I think it is a bit too aggressive for this spot -- since it is hard to reach, it would be hard to control, and yes, a bit too tall. I've been trying to establish it in another part of the yard, so far with no success but I'm working on it!

(more False Dragonhead for happy added to swap list) F D has been tough for me but I have had patches of it get sort of weird at times, not sure if it was drought, but did seem to go along with hot dry weather. The spot that gets weird seems to have soil gremlins or something..or too many tree roots probably.

Sally - you are a hoot. I'm going to have to be very careful what I say or this hypothetical swap list will get out of control. You know my plant lust knows no bounds!

I have a spot like that where I can't get anything to grow. There are not a lot of roots there. There are some azaleas but nothing underplanted will survive. I have no clue what the problem is.

Talking about swap list Happy the wood poppy you gave me is going gang busters. I put a small piece at both Josh's and Jen's houses and it is growing beautifully. The piece I kept for here bloomed and the varigated seal is growing nicely, too. Thank you, thank you.

chuckle- I'm going with "Soil Gremlins"! Or seriously, maybe a large buried boulder. I now have liriope and sedum happy there. Later on I'll be taking out some irises there that don't bloom well, but what bloom they do is too tall and flops over into the bushes. AAAGGH. Those particular iris need to have a big stake planted with them- Always too tall and heavy to hold up.

Holly: The wood poppy will spread pretty voraciously, but in a nice way. I never have enough that I pull it out. And I really like the way the foliage looks. I love love love the variegated solomon's seal -- a perfect plant! But it is a bit slower to spread. Steady, but slower.

SallyG -- You at least have sun for your soil gremlins to play with -- liriope might work in my awful spot, but sedum won't.

I have one spot where I've had a lot of plants just mysteriously die and not in the areas where I know it's juglone from the black walnuts. I don't think it's rocks underground, I have that everywhere. I had wondered if it could be nematodes. Planting French marigolds is supposed to help get rid of them. In fact, Park Seed sells a variety that is purportedly bred just to do that better.

I'm sure fungal and bacterial diseases can flourish in certain soils and not in others too.

Here's some info and pictures of what root knot nematodes can do.

http://www.corkyspest.com/lawn_pests/root-knot-nematodes.html

hart thanks for the link. I actually am growing that nematocidal marigold from Pinetree this year. Its a tall, kind of sparse marigold; the foliage smells very 'marigold"y. But I'm not sure how far ranging the effects of the marigold are or how to utilize it- chop up the leaves and mix in??? need to research more.

I think you just grow the marigolds there and they chase off the nematodes. I don't know how effective it is.

I've heard the same as Hart -- that the action is in the marigold roots.

I'm just reluctant to devote whole areas to a gangly marigold for a year. Or even to French marigolds for a year. Assuming the effect of the roots does not travel very far in the soil.
I meant to research and write an article but not enough stars in alignment on this yet.

I don't even know if that does the trick. I thought you had to continue growing it in the same soil with whatever plants you want to protect.

There are beneficial bugs that take care of them - other nematodes or those wasps?

I really don't know. What got me interested was a comment I read somewhere , that green bell peppers and cukes are esp hurt by nematodes, and those are twp things I've felt I had more than my share of trouble with.

Sorry happy waaaay off topic. How bout putting a few low shrub roses up there? I re read the first post and think I'd look more toward small shrubs, evergreens.

SallyG -- no such thing as off-topic in my book. And I agree -- shrubs may be what I need. I have a very ugly ground cover rose there now (not remotely self-cleaning so I look at dying blossoms all the time) but maybe I can find a better one.

I really like this Ruby Meideland. It's in the worst, nothing but rocks soil in the yard and so I can promise you it's tough as nails, blooms all summer pretty much constantly although the blooms are small, and never looks messy. It's never gotten prone but that's probably because it is in such awful soil and such an extremely dry spot. It's getting a lot of shade now from the Zelkova and poplar. It's probably about 2 feet tall. It won't get taller, it will just get long enough stems to flop over and be a groundcover.

This photo was taken in May. It had been blooming for a couple of weeks and is still going strong.