I need help picking long-lived plants

Hi guys! I need your help (don't I always?).

I have a hill that faces my kitchen window. It is gets about 1/2 day of sun. Daylilies do fairly well there, though they don't increase they way they would in full sun. Rudbeckia and Iris do well at that light level. That's just to give you a feel for the amount of light. I don't want to plant hostas, since my yard has tons of those already. This hill is about as sunny as it gets at my place, and I'd like to take advantage of it.

Because it is on a hill, plants that are sensitive about where their crowns are located would do poorly (there is erosion because the hill is steep, and then I dump on more dirt, so the level of the soil really fluctuates). (I don't put Iris on the hill for that reason.)

I need new plants for half-way up the hill. It is a pain to get to, so I want long-lived perennials or low shrubs. Because I see it all the time, I'd like it to look nice more often than not. Probably about 24" tall would do it -- maybe 30", but no taller. SHould be super dependable.

Any suggestions?

Will Echinacea do, or does it require full sun? How long-lived are the dwarf varieties?
Kalimeris mongolica?
Penstemon digitalis 'Husker's Red'

Watch out for some of the fancy new echinaceas, Happy. They're not at all tough like the older ones. And most echinaceas aren't real long lived.

What about four o'clocks? They come back every year, have nice foliage when they're not blooming, are tough as nails, require no care at all and are the right height.

Hart: I thought four o'clocks were not hardy, but reseeded. Am I nuts? And don't they spread? I need something that isn't going to take over the rest of the bed, since it is the once I look at the most. I just need it to fill the part I can't reach easily. I'm thinking about putting Rosa "The Fairy" there at the moment....

They'll come back. They overwinter here and I'm a zone colder than you are. I've never had a problem with them reseeding more than here and there and it's easy to pull the few extra plants that do pop up. If you put any mulch down, they won't reseed at all.

BTW, they also give your roses a little protection from Japanese beetles. The beetles prefer the four o'clocks but when the munch on them, they die.

You know, a lot of very nice plants get a bum rap from people who think gardening should never require any work ever at all. There's no such plant. Perennials need to be divided every few years, some plants will self sow a bit. There aren't nearly as many thugs as the thug obsessed would have you believe. I really think those people should just go get themselves some plastic plants and stick them in the ground - no dividing, no watering, no fertilizing, no work at all! LOL

We were just discussing this on the NE forum...
http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/2498/

That's perfect! What a great list.

I've been wracking my brain trying to think of what would be nice there and was thinking maybe tall sedums. My Autumn Joy doesn't mind some shade as long as it's fairly dry and there are some newer ones with much prettier colors like Neon and Brilliant. The seed heads look nice in winter too.

Peonies and heleniums are great too. I love euphorbias and there are some beautiful new hybrids now but I would question how long lived they are.

I have just about all of those plants on the list but I have to bicker about black-eyed Susans. They are the shortest lived plants I ever had. Cimicifuga is wonderful, but it needs the right kind of light--they prefer more woodland type of condtions like hydrangeas. And you should try hydrangeas--if you can provide the H2O they need.

Four O'Clocks don't really spread--just re-seed. I planted a bunch last year and a few came back on their own. You can dig them and move them if they land where you don't want them. Maybe I haven't seen the last of it, but I don't seem to have a Japanese beetle problem this year. Not yet, anyway...... The jury is still out on Four O'Clocks.

Oh Hart, you make me laugh. Maybe I'm becoming a plastic plant gardener. I get great joy from all the work I've put in to the yard. But the area I am talking about is very hard to reach without stomping on other plants, and is difficult to work on because it is on a steep hill. As a result, it often looks fairly barren or weedy. So I need something fairly low maintenance ... I even put liriope (which I detest) in one section just to help with erosion and because I knew it wouldn't die! I don't have enough sun for heleniums. I have a lot of Sedum Autumn Joy in the yard; I can put one there. That'd help. Peonies won't work because of the varying soil level (aren't they fairly fussy about that?)

Flowerjen -- I am looking forward to checking out that list -- thanks for the suggestion.

Hi Foxy -- haven't heard from you in a while!

I don't hardly think you're a plastic plant gardener, Happy. LOL I do understand the need for low maintenance. I just don't understand the people who go off into tizzy because, My God! The plant spread!! Aaaaaagh!

Peonies are picky about where the eyes are planted. They should be planted with the eyes no more than about 2 inches below the surface. If you plant them too deep, they won't flower. I haven't grown any on slopes but they certainly don't seem to be picky about soil other than making sure they have the right planting depth.

Say, what about the green santolina I mentioned in one of the threads? You can pick up a plant for a couple of bucks at most places that carry a lot of herbs. They don't seem to care if they get some shade as long as they get some sun. One plant will spread out from the center to maybe 3 feet by 1.5 feet or so but they don't spread - form new plants from the parent plant. The color and texture of the foliage is so pretty and they get little yellow button flowers that last for a long time. They smell nice and they're one of the toughest plants around. They get a bit over a foot tall. If you'd like, I can get some photos of mine so that you can see the whole plant.

They're certainly long lived. The first one I planted is about 10 years old and still going strong. The only maintenance is I did shear it back a couple of years ago but I've never done that with the others, which are almost as old. My first one came from DiBaggio Herbs, the others from Bluestone.

I managed to kill off santolina. My soil tends to be pretty wet, especially in the winter. I supplement it a lot, but still, that's what it is. So anything that does not like to be wet in the winter is a preordained goner for me.

It's dry here. Okay, back to the drawing board. LOL

The Sedum Autumn Joy might work. I have a lot of it, so I can take cuttings and give it a try.

I love Santolina, and all those nice gray fuzzy plants that give up the ghost within moments here....

I don't know if it's tougher about moisture, but what I'm talking about is green santolina. No gray, fuzzy foliage.

I haven't been able to get a good photo of mine. This shows a bunch growing on a slope.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3252/2702012166_c4cc732ace.jpg?v=1217011713

This and the one above are pretty close on the foliage color, which is bright somewhat light green.
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/247696/

Hmm, that's pretty. Everything I read about it calls for full sun. Mine spot has probably only a 1/2 day of sun. Think that's enough?

I have it planted in various spots around my pond. All get some sun but some of it gets at least a half day of shade.

I will say the ones I got from Bluestone tend to stay a little shorter so look tidier but not significantly so. I'll go out in a little bit and take some photos to show you. If you ever do want to shear it a bit, you can use hedge clippers or even a weed whacker. The one I sheared I maybe cut 4-5 inches off a couple of years ago.

They're really inexpensive plants so if you try it and don't like it, there won't be a big loss. I wish I knew how to propagate mine. They don't spread and get a larger center like most perennials, they just spread out. Oh, they're evergreen too.

happy--

How about Shasta daisies? They multiply readily into BIG clumps--so plant them about 12" apart.....Thjey bloom for quite a while.....The foliage is nicely green and shiny....

I have clumps in my "YUK" bed--and almost every other year, I have to dig away some of the marginal plants to keep them from encroaching on others in the vicinity. I should really dig up both clumps and really, really separate them--but I can hardly dig in that bed....all those tree roots!

They are nice flowering plants, though....Gita

I thought Shasta daisies were fairly short-lived -- at least, that's the way they have been for me. Maybe it is the shade.

Maybe I should just get more daylilies -- they work fine -- but I have an awful lot and would love some variety. Or maybe low shrubs. It is just really hard to get to this spot. I had planted some stuff yesterday which the chipmunks dug out for me (grrrr), and when I made my way through to fix it tonight I broke off a bunch of daylily buds.

Well, Happy--if you want low shrubs, most landscapers use the Blue Rug Junipers on hillsides and such. They literally hug the ground and each shrub spreads to about 4' all around.
Another one i see as a planting att he mall here is that purple/maroon shrub with the thorns....can't think of the name right now...it is late....tired! Something.....berry???
Nice dark color year round....looks great with lighter greens....yellows...

There's some juniper there now -- probably Blue Rug. But it's a little dull... I love the way the daylilies look, but that's about all that seems to survive for more than a year. I do have some asters that have been there forever (and phlox, but it gets so mildewed). Maybe I should put in more asters.

What about veronicas, Happy? They'd look nice. Kniphofia? There are some short ones that are nice. I have one that only gets about a foot tall and has light yellow blooms. That might be too much spiky stuff with the daylilies, though.

Blue rug junipers eventually get mangy and hollow out if you can't get to them to prune them every now and then.

Okay, here's some santolina photos I got this evening. This one is growing behind the pond. Colors are pretty accurate here except the button flowers are yellow, not white. I have tried and tried to get a photo that shows the flower color with no success.

Same spot, back a bit so you get more of a feel for size and how it looks in place.

This one is next to the upper pond beside the path we take to get into the backyard between the pond and garage. It's not normally swirled around like this. I was up there pulling ivy like a maniac yesterday and it got mashed up a bit.

I cut this a bit short on the bottom, but this is what you see heading up that hill with the weeping birch in the foreground and the santolina at the bottom of the shot.

I like it. I'll try it!

Veronica -- that's a good idea. Which would you recommend?

Do you think Verbena Homestead Purple would work? Or does that not like wet in the winter?

I'm leaning towards Sedum Autumn Joy and Knockout roses. Both are pretty dependable, and not too sensitive to wet feet in winter ....

I was thinking one of the tall ones in a blue or purple would look nice with the daylilies. They don't get too tall and they're pretty tough.

http://www.bluestoneperennials.com/b/bp/VESBS.html

The verbena would be pretty too if you want something shorter. I haven't grown perennial verbenas, maybe I should try some. I looked it up in plant files and they will get root rot if they have winter wet.

Forget the Verbena then -- I lose everything that dislikes winter wet....

I forgot, the shrub Gita was trying to think of was barberry. Some stay short, some get taller. There are two gold (lime) barberries in the photos above that I posted of the santolina. One is in the bottom of the first photo. It's been there for about 10 years and you can see it stays pretty short. The second one is in the top center of the next to last photo.

You can usually get those small barberries, gold or burgundy, for around $3 at Walmart. Just make sure you're getting one of the dwarf varieties.

The Barberry doesn't send me. (Fussy, aren't I?) I would like something more floral.... Maybe I need to look up plants that don't mind wet feet. Although it is by no means consistently moist. It is just that in the winter....

They're prickly, which might not be good on a slope that's difficult to maneuver on anyway. Mine turn a beautiful orange in the fall, about the color of sassafras. Then they turn back to the green in spring.

I was thinking you wanted more color than just foliage. What about azaleas, Happy? There are these new reblooming ones that bloom all spring, summer and fall. Lowes has them. I think they're called Encore or something like that. I assume they're evergreen but I'm not sure. Come in lots of pretty colors.

Joyce has one and she said it does bloom over and over. She loves it. I think they take more sun than some azaleas too.

Ah, here they are.
http://www.encoreazalea.com/encore/stat_collection.cfm

I have lots and lots of azaleas in the back of the yard. The thing of it is that this little spot is right by the kitchen window, and in a pretty visible spot, so I'd love to have something special to look forward to there. Not that azaleas aren't special, but I have a ton of them elsewhere in various attempts at shrub borders. This is my attempt at a perennial border. I suppose I could/should do annuals. That would give a lot of color, and there are a lot of annuals that require no fuss once they are in ...

Annuals would probably be the best source of all season color. If it's right next to your kitchen window, you might want something with fragrance too so you can enjoy the scents when you're inside.

Hi Happy - sent you dmail

Hart: Fragrance -- yes, that'd be wonderful.

Bluespiral: Thanks!!!

Happy, I really like the Blue Star juniper much prettier than the Blue Rug and if you already have a blue rug it would give you a bit of a different look.
I just saw a pic of the most beautiful Veronica posted on a DG site, it was Royal Candles This pic isn't near as pretty as the one I saw on DG.
http://www.northcreeknurseries.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/plants.plantDetail/plant_id/330/index.htm
What about Sensitive Fern I just love them and they will spread and come back year after year. I have been looking at Wild Ginger and Brummiera would they work for you.

My best waft in the kitchen window fragrance come from the tall phlox, which bloom for a long time but are probably too tall, and especially from the lilies. Unfortunately, the shorter asian lilies don't have any fragrance. The best ones for scent are trumpets, OT hybrids and orientals. If you want an annual, I don't think you can beat heliotrope for fragrance and they're beautiful plants, about the right height too. Flowering tobaccos are good too.

But talk to Chantell. She's the hog wild on fragrance lady. LOL

I do love veronicas, especially the dark blue ones.

Holly, do sensitive ferns require moisture all the time? I'm looking for some tough ferns I can plant in a spot that gets shade nearly all day but might dry out a bit when we get our hot, summer no rain spells. Preferably tall ones.

Hart mine grows in my woodland bed and raised stonewall bed, both are a bit on the dry side as they don't get a lot of rain because of the roof overhang. I do water them in the summer and an occasional fall and winter spray but it's not much. Mine have spread but I wouldn't call them a really aggressive grower and I think they do have that reputation. So I'm not sure if the drier conditions have kept them in check,or if I thought they were more aggressive than they are.

How tall are they, Holly? Of course I was drooling over the Japanese painted ferns at Lowes the other day but I don't think they're very tough. They sure did have some nice big plants of it, though.

Thank you! SallyG gave me a sensitive fern a couple years ago, and it has been very easy. (Actually, she gave me 2 and I killed one off right away!) I don't think it needs consistent moisture.

Holly, I like the idea of the Veronica Royal Candles. It is really pretty. Hart was also recommending a Veronica. Bluestone has them -- I missed the May 1/2 price sale, but maybe they'll reduce them again....

I have Wild Ginger and Brunnera in other places, but they are too low for this spot -- they'd be competing with daylilies.

I love the idea of heliotrope! I need to get one of those really long-handled pruners. Hart, do I recall your recommending a particular brand?

Heliotrope is wonderful. Fantastic scent, beautiful purple flowers and gorgeous foliage.

I think what I probably recommended was this:

http://www.qvc.com/qic/qvcapp.aspx/view.2/app.detail/params.item.M11045.desc.Large--Small-Pruning-Shears-Set-wRatcheting-Action

The pruner has telescoping arms and ratchets, which makes it a lot easier to get the thicker branches. The shears ratchet too. I didn't think the ratcheting would make that much difference but it makes a huge difference on the thick stuff. I've had mine for several years and the quality is good.

BTW, I got mine on end of year clearance at about half the price but I don't know if they'll put them on sale later or not.

This message was edited Jun 18, 2009 2:53 PM