Karen, you are getting some nice results with your speckled crosses! From what I've read, the speckled gene is mutable and unstable which is what you seem to be witnessing. I have not seen this in mine. The flecked gene found in the "Dai" reverse tube strain has this same mutable characteristic.
It is really interesting seeing the background patterns for the flowers in the unspeckled sectors. - Arlan
Japanese Morning Glory Hybrids
I said " broken color ", but I could also say " dual personality ". But in any case it's a " new wave" .
Karen I suppose by simple selection of seeds you can come to increase the percentage of flowers of this type.
Ideally, a cultivar which has 25% of flower Murasaki 25% of dotted and 50% of broken color.
The cultivar : Gray Lady is also a grey next to white.
ZM ,yes it is really the gene producing sheets such a leaf. In Japan there are people fanatic of this type of plant. Maybe after some years of practice in the world of JMG, I will end up enjoying these UFO.
Dany
Dany,
That is one weird plant. Amazing!
ZM
Thanks echinaceamaniac, Luvs, Arlan,Dany and ZM,
Dany, You know I noticed the little specklys are the ones with the most barring of the color. I`m growing Fujishibori and Shikanoko simultaneously and I have yet to see the barring to this degree in those.
And the little specklys is one I got from Gourd and had the white around the margin. I used it in my crosses the get the yellowish dusky speckled one in the other thread. I Might be on the something and time will tell. Time always will give some kid of answers. Dany you have the speckled mix that came from this flower so you may soon be enjoying the markings you like! These vines are full of surprises and provide years of endless amusement no doubt.
Arlan, Yes, the speckles are not tied down to a cut and dry combination. The speckles appear anywhere from densely packed to freckles to only One spot..hmmm? Did I say endless amusement? Yes!
Sort of changing gears here on another topic: I have some divided color leaf light green/dark green on another set of plants and the divided color on the flowers and white spots have seemingly disappeared...or I don`t know how to make it come back. Maybe, I`ll try a cross with the divided color specklys and the solid purple divided color light/dark green leaf plant.
ZM, Love your zinnias! I have a few cactus mix growing right now inspired by your posts.
Karen
What some beautiful M.G.'s!
Karen, wonderful job your doing on all your crosses. The yellow won my heart.....a true beauty.
Thanks Dolly. Now I`m trying to encourage seeds from that one to test it out. That one may carry for chocolate speckles but I will not know until later. I have to get up early to see the yellow color because it starts to fade as soon as the sun hits it. It also seems to be a delicate flower needing part shade. Open sun gives it a "fried egg" appearance around the edges. That might be expected from the flower not having normal pigments but if it is grown in a spot that isn`t too hot or sunny it in beautiful. It is a good thing it is somewhat shade tolerant. Morning sun and afternoon shade seems to work well.
Karen
Here are a few interesting very pale ones. Karen
That top flower looked more yellow in person than in the picture. They are both i nils.
Blue one next to the yellow or yellowish one. Maybe I could work on getting a very obvious yellow morning glory. That might be interesting...
Karen
Here`s a lavender Kikyo Ten Ten. It look the color from fujishibori and form from Kikyo Ten Ten. :)
I thought Dany would like this one. bye/bye Karen
Today I got a blue speckled kikyo in the kikyo double x kikyo ten ten F2 . I love it. This proves to me that different colors and shapes can be found by hybridizing the morning glory. I took two different very easily obtainable morning glories that I bought on ebay for like 5 dollars and worked with them to get some different looking ones I can grow,share and trade with my friends.
Here is a double kikyo x Large flower F2 selection X Fujishibori (F2)
The next picture show more petals in the middle.
They are delicate yet still manage to hold the shape pretty well.
Even in Japan on the internet I have never seen such a Kikyosaki .
But how much time to stabilize the cultivar !
Now ,at the moment, I make a lot of hybrid too but you need more than one live to continue the process until its end.
Dany
OOh I like this one!! http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6743713
Thanks luvs and Dany,
It takes about 2 -3 years. There are some more easily worked with to stabilize than others. The kikyo blue speckled one has solid leaves. The pedigree shows there are pink and variegated leaves in the ancestry so I already know pretty much what I will see when I self that flower and do another grow out to find it again. Kikyos don`t make round flowers and speckles seem to breed true to self so that means I`ll pretty much see all kikyos and speckled patterns. I will also see other hidden genes like variegation,lime green leaves, lighter or darker pink, blue or purple. I will simply remove all the flowers in the grow out that don`t conform.
On the other hand, the round flowers will be more tricky to deal with. They can throw kikyos. So, I already know when I self these beautiful round flowers with double centers that a small portion may throw back to kikyo. There will be a few tiny kikyos seen mixed in there that I will remove and go on to the next generation. There will be less and less cull flowers in each generation.
It is also important to tie blooms on plants being worked with for stabilizing that are grown in the open garden. The bees can mix pollen off the large flower onto the kikyo and the result will be plain round flowers appearing. Those can be culled out because they are pretty easy to recognize early but to save my growing space I tie blooms on the important ones.
As far as seeds sharing I either share the seed as a hybrid mixture to let people know the nature of the seeds or chose and nail down a certain set of characteristics I want to see and go through the process of growing selfed seeds for the next 5 generations or 2-3 years of work to narrow things down to a certain set of characteristics. There are some varieties I wait about sharing because I need all the seeds I can find to literally "find it again". Those seeds that I have to grow 100 of them to find 7-10 of what I need would not be good for trading.iykwim
Even cultivars out of the package from Japan need to be cared for to keep them looking right. There are rare patterns like "ray flow" that simply are not stable genes and will occur randomly. So in the youjiros it is common for unusual patterns like "ray flow" to appear but I already know not to get too exited and pluck the seeds to advertise without testing them first. The Sazanami has 4 forms solid and blizzard blue and solid and blizzard lavender. Right now I`m trying to see if it is possible to get seeds that will breed true for the blue blizzard Sazanami. I`m still culling the solid flowers that show up on occasion in size able grow outs. I`m still learning but I know enough to enjoy this as a hobby. Each year I`ll learn more facts about these flowers I like to grow.
Karen
Karen,
Have you tried growing morning glories from cuttings in order to increase the seed yield from a particular specimen? I have done that with zinnias.
ZM
Karen,
You need a big computer or to have a memory like an elephant's .
For hybridizing I hope I have enought imagination. That's why it's important to grow a lot of different type to have a choice.
Today I've got the first Black King bloom , but the female side is good quality the male side totaly brown so I think unfertil .
A good cross with Black King , this one perhaps !
Wow dany I like your Black King!! Is that a cross from one you did?
Ronnie,
I was able to buy 5 seeds in Japan this spring , i hope I can produce some seeds .
Dany
Hi ZM,
I have rooted some of the double ipomoea purpureas to get a batch of seeds from a certain color I wanted and that worked very well. Now, I need to go get a little of cutting of the yellow dusky speckled ipomoea nil and just try it Right Now LOL!!! I have been so busy with garden maintenance it gets crazy sometimes.
Hey Dany,
My memory is pretty much visual. I know what I saw and what morning I saw it pretty much from now until last year. I work on connecting the codes I give them with my very dependable visual image in my mind. The codes help me find my seeds in storage and if I`m successful making the connection of the code name and what I saw in the garden I`m doing pretty good. I get to know my flowers like they are people. I never forget a face. Asagao means morning face.
The Black King you sent to me is producing good pollen but not on every morning. The heat of summer can wipe out the pollen production and while I think genetics does play a role however the heat in June and July is brutal to even the most productive vine. Extremes of temperatures whether below 60 degrees and above 85 will impact fertility or it sure seems like it in my garden. Early spring and late fall are times when pods set easily and mid summer and late fall the pods don`t set very well though they never go completely seedless forever as long as I hunt for the pollen and spread the pollen by hand.
Check the flowers nearest the bottom of the plant shaded under the leaves and you often can find at least one one full of good pollen. If the plant has no pollen to go to selfing then I cut them all off to cut back on the cross pollination unless I want to do a cross. Always mark your crosses with a different color yarn so they will not get mixed with your selfed pods. The Black King fertility seems similar to the Fujishibori so that means not a awful lot of pods but you will get seeds if you take a little time each morning to hunt for pollen and hand pollinate.
About your Black King Cross: Is that youjiro Maisugata ? I notice the solid leaves. I love the "points" on the edges and that is a feature I really think is cool. The throat color is nice!!! Now if you cross those you might want to decide do you want the spokes or not? If your Maisugata has only one gene for white ray you will get both solid,white margined,and possible some solid blooms from that cross and the corolla color and solid green will match more closely to the Maisugata parent. You need to pick the F1 that suits you best to get your F2 seeds. Then you`ll get a Lot of variations that will blow your mind for sure. The hard part is deciding what one look do you want to work for. They can all be so awesome it is tough to chose sometimes. :)
Karen
F1 generation can be cross again with Black King to maintain large black flowers perhaps with the " point ".
But we are in 2011 for the result !
It is a pity that there is no program that could make a simulation ? ! LOL.
Hi Dany, They have a program for dog coat colors. The morning glories could have a program too but it would take quite a botanist with some time on their hands for that. LOL!!!
Thanks for all the email and compliments. I`m amazed at the interest people have in these flowers!
I bred these myself and you can do it too. There is no expert requirement just a lot of hard work and maybe some discipline and organizational skills. This one is a speckled one with lime green variegated tri lobe leaves.
Karen
How about a blizzard kikyo?
Hi Karen
Lovely bloom !
It's a cross or a spontaneous apparition ?
The blizzard comes from its great great grandma the Ukigumo.
pedigree? drumroll please.....
F1 ukigumo(pod parent) x youjiro -select blizzard
F2 ukigumo(pod parent) x youjiro hybrid selection X double blue kikyo
F3 all were solid round flowers with magenta throat and some had a barely noticable blizzard pattern of spots and light streaks(I think a weak blizzard)
F4 grew out a bunch of those and found a blizzard kikyo (tied that one) It was the Only one in the whole grow out. Most had the weak blizzard or were solid.
F5 found it again and this is the picture
edited: to get pod and pollen parents in order
This message was edited Jul 18, 2009 12:13 AM
Karen, Your crosses are amazing!!! They are all beautiful but the yellow speckled & the pink speckles are breathtaking!
Dany, your cross with Black King is a beauty.
You both have done great jobs with your crosses!
Thanks Dolly! They have been fun to work with. :)
I got another pretty this week. :)
Another beauty Karen!
You've got talent friend!!! Why don't you pass on some of that talent to me for my brugmansia crosses ;) I get my seed pods growing good and all of a sudden they drop off. Maybe the heat causing the drop off.
I'd like to say I'm very proud of all your hard work. Your right on top of the list for M.G. hybridizers in the U.S., and maybe even worldwide. Your M.G.'s certainly have a sought after, different look that is sure to become top dollar sellers. Congrats!!!
Is this one of the M.G.'s you gave me? Foliage is variegated.
I think the flowers are talented. I just grow them. They have grown on me. lol!!!
That one looks like the commercial variety Miko No Mai. I stuck some of those or perhaps a cross of one of those in the seedbox.
Thanks Dolly!
Karen
Oh yeah about the brugs. I`m not experienced with brugs but it is possible the heat is stalling your progress. I do know the heat causes pods to drop off with the JMG and my tomatos just this week started to set fruit.
Karen
Got 2 seeds results from F3. Another Dusky Fujishibori.
And a Chocolate speckled. This is a F3 culled out of some pink F2s. Pink can carry the dusky gene.
Close up.
This is the right picture.Close up.
A thread worth reviving again. Maybe because I love the speckled blooms so much! ;-)