2009 - 1st time bale gardeners - Part 2

QG, I am going to have to google your misting system. It sounds very nice.

I used hay 40% alfalfa this year and haven't had any luck with it at all. I can't imagine why 'cause everyone else swore by it last couple of years. I had much better luck with the straw. Something wrong here.

What are you going to do with the alfalfa pellets? Feed the animals? I made a tea out of some last year and it smelled so bad I had to dump it out and cover it up. LOL, really was yucky. But, the plants I did put it on loved it.

Let me know bout your misting system, where you got it and how much it covers.

Jeanette

So, some people have good luck with alfalfa bales and some don't, hm? Wonder what the differences are. Hm...

Apparently, the alfalfa pellets that the pet store sells for rabbits is really good for some plants, like tomatoes - you just mix a little into the top inch of soil. Alfalfa has some plant hormone in it that really makes plants grow - and I imagine quite a bit of other things that plants need. That's why I thought maybe alfalfa bales might be even more productive than straw.

I'll nose around for some of the past discussions on the different types of bales.

The misting system I found first on eBay, but it was a lot cheaper at Costco.com - with free shipping, two systems came to $62.00, where one system was going to cost right about that from some eBay sellers. (although I think the price *is* dropping for these. If you have a Sam's membership, I'm sure they have something similar.

The system is a 1/2" hose with emitters about every 18" and it starts with ten feet of plain line for hookup. There are little tap-in clamps that you use to secure the hose so that the misters are oriented the way that you want them. I haven't done the clamps yet - I put the system up first with cable ties, just to see how to position everything. It's fully functional now, but the clamps make the system more neat and attractive.

You just flush the line, screw in the first three or four mister plugs and tap the hose into the clamps. Repeat until the whole system is done. It sounds a lot more difficult than it is. That part of the job only took a half hour - the time consuming part was figuring out where to put the Y-connector on the deck, how to run the supply hose to it and cutting up one of my hoses to make it neater.

I don't get around too well, but I managed it with no trouble at all. If I can do it, anyone can. :) And I know the plants are going to appreciate a couple of hours' cooling break on those suffocatingly hot days that are on their way.

QG, I don't think you should really consider my experience with the alfalfa bales because this year our weather has been so cold that I don't think anything would work. From the sounds of the others, I think the alfalfa bales are a good way to go.

As far as the pellets go, from what I have learned, you need to get the kind with molasses in them. I think that is the activator that makes them work. Just my opinion, so do some research yourself.

This is where we are lucky now to have the internet. It saves a lot of legwork.

Jeanette

This message was edited Jun 28, 2009 10:19 AM

Mercy! Molasses too? Geesh, I would think that I'd really have an ant problem with that kind of mix. I'll look that up - I do remember someone talking about a molasses recipe, but I didn't think it had anything to do with the alfalfa.

Yes, I love the internet! :)

I was about to give up on having a "real" vegetable garden this year - or maybe ever, in this house - the soil is so terrible here.

I was thinking I'd have to build raised beds, truck in tons of compost and greensand and manure and hay and spread it all. Plus build supports and keep it all watered? I couldn't manage that level of activity and I don't have the budget that allows me to pay someone else to do it for me, either.

But then I found out about straw bales and lasagna gardens and the ideas were just brilliant and so common sense wonderful. No spading and digging to inflame the parts of me that have gotten a little "rusty," and builds the soil, too.

My only regret is that I didn't buy a LOT more bales. :)

Hi all, I am putting this year of bale gardening as a learning experience. I have no idea what I was thinking when I started my first bales. I guess I never thought that this would work so well. I put my bales up against our house foundation figuring that I could use the deck railing as a support. Then I put the zuke bales in front of the pepper bales. Really bad ideas. The tomatoes are growing up and over the railing and are now about four feet along the top. The zukes totally shaded out the peppers and I could not even get near them. I finally just pulled them out. The cukes are intertwined with the jasmine growing on the deck. It looks like the Amazon forest out there.

The good news is that I have tons of the most wonderful cherry tomatoes! The peppers are finally happy and are producing nicely. I use the broken down zuke bale to fill in around the tomatoes and peppers and I am finding worms in the bale...I am so happy to see fat and healthy worms at last.

Have a great 4th,

Helen

Sorry for laughing Helen, but you could have worse problems. They could have not grown at all. Anyway, it sounds like you have solved your problems and learned a lot along the way.

Next year you will maybe plan ahead a little better.

Jeanette

Helen, it sounds *beautiful!*

How great that you have worms! (now there's a phrase you don't hear very often ;) )

I wish I'd planted a couple of tomatoes in the bales. I definitely will next year.

I will also stake the bales before I start soaking them. They're collapsing at the ends and the dishpans that I put on top are tilted at crazy angles. Next year, I'll butt them tightly together, stake the ends, wrap the sides with plastic and put the tall support system in before I even start watering.

You guys did great. Both of you. Yes, please put tomatoes in them. You will never regret it . You will have a ball planning your garden this winter. But CG you are in Tx. So, when do you start all over again? Sorry to be so dumb about your area but there is a big difference between yours and mine.

And yes, the worms mean you did a truly good job on your bales. Very good.

Jenette

Jenette, I might take a break in January, but I think we have to work around the summer heat more than the winter cold, down here. This is my first garden since we moved here (and my first real garden in many years) so I'm really a newbie to Texas gardening.

And things have changed SOOOOO much since my last real garden. I used to try to do everything prescribed by Rodale - raised beds, digging, turning, adding amendments, mulching, companion planting, intensive planting - gardening needed a lot more "sweaty work" than this bale concept does. My physical condition doesn't allow me to do that heavy stuff any more, so I am really excited about this and you're right - already looking forward to planning next year's garden. There won't be much grass in the back yard, but the dogs will enjoy running through the maze of bales. :)

I imagine most of my gardening will be indoors in Feb-Mar, getting seeds started, turning the compost beds and setting up the framework in which to put the bales next year. Drip system, weed barriers, tall supports, etc.

I'm about to start seed indoors for the fall/winter garden - I plan to do lettuces, pole beans, bush beans, brassicas, root crops, tomatoes, summer squash, winter squash, potatoes. Lots of things that I used to do in Feb & March, plus the things I used to do in July and Aug. I will put them all in bales or on compost piles, though.

Yes, there's a huge difference between your area and mine!

I'm allergic to that white stuff y'all have in winter, but boy on days like this, I could definitely enjoy a cool, clean wind and a slow rain. :) It's only 87º today, but it's very humid, so the misters on my deck don't feel like they're doing anything. I got the hardest chores done early today and I'll dink around some more when the sun is down.

Hope your day is even better than mine! :)

CG you are definitly going to have to keep us posted along the way. I get the same thing from Lena in NZ. They are so different than us. It is fun to see the difference. Especially the pictures.

Jeanette

I can't believe how wonderful this bale gardening is - the straw inside the bales is soft and cool and wet and everything is flourishing except some of the poor zucchini and crookneck plants that have fallen prey to borers. The Lambkin melon has gone insane and acts as if it will creep in and raid the fridge one night - if it produces as well as it grows, I will be delirious! :) It is about twice as full as the Ambrosia melons planted at the same time.

So far my little garden has given me quite a few wonderful tomatoes, cucumbers and crookneck squash. Oh and lots of flowers! :)

On June 25, I took the picture of my dishpan bales a little farther up the thread, but this is what the same area looked like three days ago:

Gotta say QG your garden looks wonderful. And to think that you got a lot of produce off of it is so nice. Be sure to use the old bales for mulch, or whatevers. It looks really great.

Jeanette

QG: I 2nd Jeanette's comment.

I'll have to try to get some pictures, today - you won't believe the difference. The deck is now completely covered with vines and the lawn is completely covered with bales.

Some of the bales, I'm going to do the "quick aging" thing with but most of them will just winter out in the open. I'm wrapping the sides with 4mil clear plastic, but haven't put up any trellising frames because I'm not sure where I'm going to put stuff yet.

Thirty bales in my small yard. Oh well. If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing... that's my motto! ;)

Have a great day!
Elizabeth

Elizabeth, just remember that when they are wet they are pretty heavy to move.

Jeanette

Jnette, you are so right! Last time I tried moving the bales after a couple of weeks of soaking and it was impossible for me to do it alone, so I left them where they were. There were 8-12" gaps between them, which led to the bales collapsing at the ends - not good.

But, my regular landscaping guys came today and moved the "fall/winter" bales around a bit for me so now those are ready for me to wrap up and start soaking. Yippeee! :)

Sounds like a plan. So, I am so unaware of how you guys do things in the south, how long before you start planting? And is this a "winter" crop? If so, what do you plant?

I'm not really sure, Jnette - I haven't had a real garden in years so I'm just studying the Texas Gardening forum and trying a few things. ;)

When I first started this garden, I couldn't wait to put in the fall garden. But, it seems like I no sooner get one pest under control than another one shows up. At the moment, it's aphids and slugs. I think I'm getting nature fatigue! ;)

This might be helpfull

Difficulty: EasyInstructionsThings You'll Need:
Beneficial plant list, to attract "good" bugs. It is extensive, so seed list will follow.
Insecticide- to kill existing bugs: Ivory Soap, two cups of water, 1/4 cup corn oil.
Preventative plant list, also to follow, no special instructions
Step 1http://www.zinkwazi.com/blog/index.php?showimage=773Put in plants from the following list to ATTRACT BENEFICIAL insects (preventative plants are listed below).

Step 2Note, some of the following are considered weeds-(list thanks to http://www.thriftyfun.com):

To attract ladybugs which eat aphids: parsley, wild buckwheat, white sweet clover, tansy, sweet fennel, sweet alyssum, spearmint, Queen Anne's lace, hairy vetch, flowering buckwheat, crimson clover, cowpeas, common knotweed, caraway and black locust.

Marigolds also attract hover flies.

Sunflowers attract aphids AWAY from other plants and are hearty enough to withstand them.

Dill attracts aphid predators and parasites.

Asters attract Honeybees and Ichneumonid wasps.

Step 3Insecticide: Put one bar of Ivory Soap into the two cups of water and let it sit till the soap dissolves.

Separate what's left of the solids and discard.

Mix with the corn oil in a spray bottle.

Shake

Apply to whole plant, including the tops and bottoms of the leaves.

Step 4Put in plants from the following List to PREVENT harmful insects. Simply scatter them among the existing plants, or set them in a border around the perimeter of your garden. Different people recommend different methods. Some plants attract harmful insects, so you may want to plant them somewhat separate from your garden.

Step 5Plant mint, marigolds, borage, garlic and basil (yum!) to keep out a general host of bugs. More specifically:

Interplant Radish in your rows to keep away Striped Cucumber Beetle and Root-knot nematodes.

Japanese beetles are repelled by chrysanthemums, chives and catnip
Nasturtium repels Colorado Potato Beetle.

Marigolds repel these harmful insects: Colorado Potato Beetles, Root nematodes, Mexican bean beetles, aphids.

Rue discourages most types of worms and leaf chewers.

Yarrow attracts hover flies, lady beetles and parasitic wasps AWAY from your plants

Tubby

Ohmigoodness, all this info in one spot! Thanks so much!

I really do try to use organic, integrated methods because I think they cause fewer unwanted side effects than the chemical measures to which I do resort. But, the problem got ahead of me so fast that the spray had to come out.

The aphids seem to be under control again, and now I know for next year what I need to plant more of to call more ladybugs into my garden.

But, what are hoverflies? Are those a good bug? What do they do?

qg,

I am sure all of what Tubby says is helpful, but I'm telling you the best thing I have found to get rid of aphids is to use a real strong spray of your garden hose to them. You may have to do this each week until they are gone.

I didn't read all of Tubby's post, but for slugs, they do not like coffee grounds or Diatomatious Earth. The coffee grounds scratch their bellys and the DE cuts them.

I just Googled ( plants that repel bugs ))

Another Pretty much the same

Garlic
Fresh garlic planted in the vegetable garden repels aphids and Japanese beetles. Moles and mice will not eat your onions if you plant garlic among the onion plants.

Plant a clove of unpeeled garlic at regular intervals by pushing the large end of the clove into the dirt with the pointed end just under the surface of the soil.

When the garlic blooms, harvest the fresh garlic for household use and replant another clove for continuous protection.
Chives and Leeks
Consider chives and leeks to repel the carrot fly. Carrot flies do not just attack carrots. These are easy plants to use and they will improve the garden health as well.
Borage
The tomato worm will scurry away if you plant borage and tomato plants together. Borage is a starflower and an annual herb. Use it to flavor foods while cooking as well.

Slugs will not go near spinach. So, plant spinach anywhere you can. Use the fresh spinach leaves in salads.
Herbs
Mint and rosemary, when planted in the vegetable or flower garden, discourage insects from laying eggs. The cabbage moth, in particular, will no longer be a problem.

Thyme plants repel cabbageworms. This is an herb as well; simply pinch some fresh leaves when desired for cooking.
Tansy and Mint
Tansy, an herb, keeps mosquitoes and beetles away. Plant tansy in the garden or in containers on the deck and windowsills. Achieve the same effect by planting tansy indoors.

Mint and tansy planted together keeps ants at bay. Plant these herbs indoors or out. Place the plants near a windowsill or an entrance that ants use.
Marigolds
Many gardeners use marigolds in the vegetable garden in addition to the flower garden to deter insects and bugs. Japanese beetles and nematodes will not be around to cause damage to your plants if marigolds are planted nearby.
Insect Resistant Plants
Buy new plants that are insect resistant. Many plants are now hybrids with natural resistance qualities in the plant itself.

Using natural plants, insect-resistant plants and herbs, is a win-win situation for you. You will have fewer bugs to fight and you will now have fresh herbs for the dinner table.

Jnette, the hosing down is what I'm doing now. It about pulls the plant out of the soil and blows it down the street, but when the stem bounces back to me, most of those dang things are gone. I don't know why but aphids just gross me out so badly, you'd think they were scorpions or something. ;)

I am up to my ears in coffee grounds that I've been saving to put into the compost pile, so I'll put them on my plants instead. And I will not let myself run out of DE again, either!

Tubby, I'm taking notes - I had to smile - it's been a long time since I had a garden, but when I started this one, I planted garlic cloves around all the melons and tomatoes and peppers and other edibles - old habits die hard. ;) I wish I'd put them into all my ornamentals, too. But I've got a boatload of garlic in the kitchen, so putting that to use will be one of my jobs today.

Thanks a bunch, y'all!
Elizabeth

Wow, that is a strong hose you have. Sounds like a fire hose. Maybe it is the pressure that is so strong. You are lucky. I guess.