the-cottage-garden

I think we have another highjacker as the picture of Change of Pace is Schreieners and I KNOW they did not give her permission to use their pictures

D

Which one is that?

?? the picture of Change of Pace is schreiners
new name is the-country-garden was the-iris-cottage
Remember only the one in CO not in Canada or any other state


D

The red iris I bought from The-iris-cottage just bloomed and guess what, it is an old fashioned purple (what a surprise!)

See if it the same purple that cathysplants posted from here. Just curious.

D

This persons buying record is one that if you really look she/he buys nothing but bulk NOID plants, wonder why? me thinks that she gets those in and labels what ever she made up names for and sends on there merry way and it will take at least one year to bloom

D

I think you are exactly right and wondered if that was what she was doing last fall as she was winning all of those big lots off Ebay.

irisloverdee....Sorry, I forgot the intro to this thread when I asked who it was!!! My poor old memory!!! Can't remember somes things from one moment to the next!!! LOL!

I think Mainecoon has talked about them. I have been staying away.

There are so many good sources, why deal with a fly-by-night? Less money isn't worth It when you get wrong & poor quality plants.

I'm a believer that you get what you pay for....someone could put out a "read this before you buy Iris" type of blog...

It is truly said because if people want to buy from ebay there are some really great sellers out there that are also our own DG'ers here.

I do not know how to do blogs and do not have time either. Just too bad you can not write to the buyers and tell them what they might be getting. You can not. I guess once (which will never happer) no one buys from her then she will have all this money and leave the honest people alone.

D

Yep, it is a risk you take.

No, people without good ethics just keep changing the name. AIS Bulletin is not in enough libraries so that the general gardener can find safe people.

I totally agree Lucy

Too bad these people who are bidding thinking they are getting the correct iris, are being taken to the cleaners big time, and this is the 3 or 4th year for this seller with different names

D

it would almost be worth it to me to buy something from her so I could start a class action suit against this individual (it's a she? I thought it was a he) or individuals. However, I've been in court for the last two days, as a witness and emotional support for a friend injured in an auto accident, so am remembering how much I despise courtrooms! LOL

the person has to be making a bundle on swindling folks. Unfortunately, I've also learned some of the limitations of the law by participating in the system. One thing the law can't do is to prevent someone from committing a crime, except by incarceration. this "crime" does not meet the level to incarcerate someone, at least not for long.

there is no way that i can see of stopping her hethem unless all the buyers got together and went to their fraud departments at the bank and got their money back or told ebay . or we just buy from them and keep complaining until ebay shuts her down . lol besides ebay is making money off her too and the people that are getting suckered. what about the bbb in her area . maybe some one can let them know she is doing business out of her home as the country garden or whatever it is and not selling the right product . if she has made a certain amt of money she could be considered a business im not sure how that works with selling on ebay .

Because he/she does not have a license under any of the names they use on Ebay, the BBB can not help. The ag dept can not help for same reason. Ebay will NOT help even when SHOWN that we have the original picture and have given them not one once of permission to highjack the photo for personal gain.

What I really feel back about is the people being taken. Many are just looking for something pretty they see it and buy it not knowing if the price is outlandishly expensive or that is it not true to name. They wait for one or two years to see the bloom and what did they get a historic purple or something else. Sad

i know its the principle . that she/ they cant be stopped . because of the way ebay is set up .and they are doing something they know is wrong . this is bad a really bad thought popped into my head . i was thinking what if people made fake ebay accounts and bid on everything to get the sale from going through . . i know . .. bad . and 2 wrongs dont make a right . and all that lol .

I was lucky that I knew a little about iris when ebay came along. I did look at their iris, but I found myself wondering how one could be sure of getting the right iris. Luckily, I had somehow learned about Schreiner's and Cooleys -- maybe an ad in Horticulture magazine.
I have never had bad luck on ebay, but I am rather cautious about what I buy and from whom. For that reason I never ordered from any of you, though I know know several of you are great ebay sellers.
It is hard for the feedback system to work when results are so distant from receipt of product. I even had that problem with someone in AIS who will be nameless. I ordered from them for 3 years before I realized that a) the quality was lousy, b) they were always telephoning me and trying to talk me into something else because they didn't have what they advertised -- ever, and because everything I got from them seemed to be misnamed.
I kept blaming myself for mixing up labels, but after a while, I realized i couldn't be mixing all of them up!
Don't buy from that place any more.

Here's what I don't understand, Dee. The NY State Dept of Ag and Markets comes out and inspects my plants and my soil for insects and diseases, as Oregon does you. We've discussed their procedures between us. They come here four times per year. They look down in the leaves of my plants, and dig into my soil.

But someone doesn't have a license and they won't do anything about it?!

Why are we bothering (Don't answer this, I know why), but seriously the NYS Dept of Ag and Markets are so strict that our conditions be just perfect before we send any plant out, and then they won't, or someone won't, investigate these companies that just ignore the regs, and don't bother to get a nursery license or have an inspection. Makes absolutely no sense to me.

I know it's probably not a NY state business, but I'm going to talk to my inspector to see if there is any governing agency that would look into these things, when he comes out in July.

sick the IRS on them...any "legitimate" business should be paying taxes just like the rest of us have to do...I can assure you if there ripping off people there also ripping off Uncle Sam...it doesn't matter if it's an at home business either!

I actually think it is a good idea to talk to your ag inspector. The federal government can regulate interstate commerce and that is what is happening at ebay. But we don't know that she violates the agriculture rules. What this person is doing is more like fraud. This is the kind of thing one reports to one's state Attorney General's office as internet fraud. There are laws about that. Local and state police are starting to have departments regarding internet fraud. She may find it becomes increasingly more difficult to get away with this sort of thing as police departments etc . get their cyber crime divisions up and running.
Of course, this is rather small in the cyber crime business. There are such things as Phfshing, etc, which do a lot more harm.

I think Dee determined she has no business license under the name she is using on ebay. So I would think that constitutes violating the agriculture regs. I have to use my business name, and have it prominently displayed along with my inspection cert. I have a home business and an internet business, different names, and both have to be inspected four times per year. My inspector, of course, does it all at the same time, but he issues me two certificates, one for each business. And then I get a letter in the mail for each business saying that I pssed the inspection.

And do you expect that someone who steals pictures would be duly licensed and inspected, anyway?

No, I don't. I think if anyone ever figures out that they have been ripped off, they should file a complaint with their state or maybe even the feds. I just wonder how many of her customers realize that they have been ripped off. Lots of people think all iris are purple.

You are correct PollyK, about the Dept of Ag having to come out and check your gardens, I had to have mine checked when I had a garden in Colorado, when i had my garden in Wyoming and now one for Montana, I was required to have each shipment, I sent out inspected for healthy plants, no disease, no bugs, and not dried up, Wyoming had the strictest rules .
I contacted the Dept of Ag in Colorado about her sending all these iris out the state, they won't do any thing because she is not licensed, they told me to contact the other states since the plants are going in there.

I agree the ones who are abiding by the rules and paying fees to the Dept of Ag, (if you have any), just to have that inspection done, and our products certified as clean, does not make sense when some one who calls herself a garden, but is not, brings in all these NOID and repackages them back up and sends them on to people who bought from her, gets away without any fees or inspections,

hmmmmm. well, ebay is all about money. what about fighting fire with fire?

what if we could convince a group like DG, or AIS, to take out a banner ad, to appear on ebay on the iris pages - just like any other advertiser, and have it be an ad to go to a certain website to read about how not to get ripped off when buying irises? then the website they can go to will specify the cheat as it's prime example?

I'm presuming at this point no one has ever heard from this vendor about issuing a refund, and that ebay won't help with that?

The purpose of the AIS is to promote irises. don't we have any division that can issue a public statement about this problem?

You know, I doubt seriously that AIS or DG would do all that, but you can suggest it to them.
I still think someone who has received her irises and found they weren't what they ordered has to take it on. But such small amounts of money are involved -- and people do receive iris, just not the right ones, there may not be very many dissatisfied customers.
I realize that those of you who sell honestly on ebay have every right to be mad about her taking away good customers for a product you know will probably not be what it claims to be. But on the other hand people just may not care that much.
Most of you have web sites and those of you who don't should -- even if it is a very modest do it yourself job. This way customers can find you more easily and the word will get out.
I just think ebay is difficult to deal with for iris -- because it takes so long from receipt of product to discovery of wrong bloom. Even the theft of pictures is not something most people have the time and energy to pursue, even big companies like Schreiner.
I say, focus on your customers and forget about the Cottage Garden or whatever it is called. Her crimes are petty and that is why no one nails her. But the IRS may eventually find her. Her state may eventually find her and demand sales tax as well. I still think reporting her to her state Attorney General's office is a good start. Even tiny New Mexico has an internet fraud officer. But it would have to be a dissatisfied customer who reports her.
It would be nice if we could make everyone behave, but the government has only so many people to do their job. They are busy with the people stealing money out of our retirement accounts, etc.


This message was edited Apr 29, 2009 9:31 AM

Pajar

I agree with you. AIS and DG do not have the time or energy any more than the big named iris growers that their pictures are used illegally.

I have learned that it may or may not be a crime, if a picture is out on the internet to use it, as many class it as public domain. I honestly do not know.

I will not say anything further here as I will let it die

I agree with almost all of what you have said, Betty.

My problem is with the irises people receive wrongly named. Those irises are going to get traded, and sold and given away as the name they were received under.

I have seen such problems with siberians and Japanese from this happening that people almost didn't want to buy Japanese as they were such poor quality, appearance and performance wise.

There was just an article in The Review that I contributed to about how irises were purchased from the Dutch growers, and given names and passed around as such a name, when they were not even registered, and were not the same irises. People didn't like them as they were murky colored, weak growers, etc., and many gave up on buying Japanese for that reason.

A lot of these irises will be tagged by the buyer, and then passed around as that iris. At some point it's going to be hard to tell what the true iris of that cultivar name is. This has happened with the historics. It has happened with siberian iris Caesars Brother. No one can even tell what the true Caesars Brother is anymore, as it's so mixed up in commerce, having irises passed along that were not Caesars Brother under that name. I think that's very sad.

A lot of them will just go to gardeners who will either enjoy them or won't, and will never pass them along. That's fine. But to have the wrong named ones get into commerce, and propagate more wrong named ones is what bothers me.

This message was edited Apr 29, 2009 11:37 AM

And I agree that it is bothersome. I am familiar with the Caesar's Brother problem. Apparently arilbred dardanus is no longer the same one that was originally introduced. It happens. It shouldn't. It's just that it takes time and energy and will to stop it and most of our law enforcement people are already overworked. It would be nice if there were something like the Watchdog for ebay. I think ebays feedback system works for gross misrepresentation but not for iris. By the time the iris blooms, it is too late to give bad feedback.
I think the solution has to come from inside the industry and I guess that is what you all are trying to do -- come up with a way of policing the industry. I think it will have to be something new. None of the existing methods seem to work.
Keep thinking!

I agree it's something that needs to be done within the industry. Being retired from law enforcement I certainly know there are much more severe issues to be tackled there. But I was thinking since the person selling the irises probably has no license and inspections to do so, that might be a way to go too. I would think that's what our Ag and Markets people should be doing, policing the industry.

Maybe someone could approach the AIS on behalf of all of us, and see if there isn't some way to curb this problem.

If this is the same party discussed last year, one important point is being overlooked.
Last year there was a rip-off of a couple of legitimate vendors by a simple change in
the names. The Iris Cottage became the-iris-cottage and The Iris Garden[s] became
the-iris-garden[s]. Novice buyers are being misled into thinking they are buying from
respectable vendors.

I have never bought anything from e-bay and probably never will but I have concluded
most of the people selling are trying to make a quick buck and the people buying are
looking for a bargain??.

I have bought a lot of dishes and silver tableware on ebay with excellent results. Lots of the vendors are really good people who do a fantastic job. It is a great place to get started with a business out of one's home. Others, however, are crooks. Ebay tries to root them out, but it is especially hard with plant vendors, because ebay knows little about plants and apparently doesn't respond to complaints by other vendors about fraudulent behavior.
I might buy some iris on ebay if I know the person who is selling them, but in that case, I just contact them directly and skip ebay entirely.
Ignorance both helps ahd hurts people buying and selling on ebay. People sometimes get things that aren't good quality, because they aren't careful enough about buying. And sometimes people get into a bidding war over something they could get much cheaper elsewhere and drive the price into the stratosphere. That has been known to happen with certain iris! It is great for the sellers and I guess I don't feel that sorry for people who don't check around to find out what the going rate is.
If the industry can find a good way to police itself, I would be delighted. In the meantime, I am cautious about plants on ebay -- for myself.

I have to defend the e-bay sellers a bit. When just starting to buy iris it is an opportunity to see a lot of different ones when you don't know that there are catalog companies out there. Also a new person does not have to buy more than one at a time, no minimum order. Buying iris on e-bay led me to this hobby, this site and many others via google. Yes, the-iris-cottage people ripped me off for one iris, but maybe the lesson learned was worth the small price. Most of what I have bought has been excellent. Actually I have gotten more mislabled plants from one of the legitimate big growers than e-bayers. They have occassionally sent misnamed bonus plants, but nothing I paid for. Noids either end up in my garbage can or labled as pretty but ????. I have decided that trying to id them is not usually worth the effort.

Agreed with all of the above irislovr. I didn't get started with iris on ebay, but I know a lot of people like it and it is great for small iris growers. That's why they are still in business. I suspect that in the end it is a great way to get people to look at one's website if one has one. Then they can order direct.

Last summer I ordered from Hearthstone Legacy via Ebay because I was looking for a certain cultivar, and they were selling it. They appeared to be reputable and even sent me a couple bonus cultivars. (Heavens, I deserved the bonuses because I waited long enough for them to ship!) They are rated in the Garden Watchdog, but I see that their website is no longer functioning.

I have purchased from Hearthstone in the past and had no problems whatsoever. Hard to say why they are no longer there. Also gone is Zac-attack (or something like that) who sold me my first arilbred. He often had unusual things to offer.

You will see several are gone now because of the feedback being the new way no negetive..price increase almost double this year.

D

Zac-attack, I assume it is the same one, often posts in the iris forum. He is a lovely person. I think he recently moved and may not have time to mess with iris selling just now.

Zac-attack did indeed move to a bigger place and it is him...lovely man. Great iris.

One that is gone is Turtle Jim, he will not sell with all that Ebay, Paypal and several buyers did at the end of the year...said he also had/has great iris and a lovely person to do business with.

D

I bought 2 iris from the iris Cottage last summer and Emailed them when I saw the 1st thread here. I have grown Iris on and off for years but never bought off Ebay until last year. I was told if they were not the ones listed when they bloom to let them know. I am not holding my breath. I have noticed since then a cple I bought from are also on DG and I know they are good venders. It was my Ebay wanderings last year that brought me here and I am glad of that . As you say they are not all bad but when we get burned we get wiser.