Purple plum tree

when is the best time to prune it? I have a puny one that hardy even bloomed this spring. Frankly, I'm tired of it and ready to yank it out but hubby says to give it another chance. tree is about 7 ft tall with very spindly branches. he thinks if we prune it the canopy will get fuller.

somebody told me this tree is short lived, 20 yrs, and very disease prone. but if you feel sorry for this tree, tell me what to do or I'm gonna "terminate" it.

How many years has it been in the ground? If it's only been there a year or two it's probably still working on getting its roots going and then it'll fill out more on top and bloom more. If it's been around a while and is still spindly and struggling then it's probably either got a disease or something in its conditions are not making it happy, and in that case I don't think pruning it is going to help unless you can fix the thing that's making it unhappy first.

Trees grow best if not pruned at all.

If it is only that size and spindly, it may still be too young to be flowering much yet. Yes, it is short-lived compared to an oak, but not that short! More like 30-40 years, unless it gets hit by some lethal disease or other.

Having said that, my inclination would be to replace it, as I don't like purple trees, I think they're a horrible blot on the landscape.

Resin

thank you both. The tree is at least 5 yrs old, I don't remember for sure. This particular area is not water logged but it is definitely a low point in our property. On the other side of this same bed I had a crabapple, supposedly suitable for my area and it struggled for a couple fo years until I yanked it.

I would really like something with purple foliage and an understory tree in mostlyi sun would be ideal. If somebody has a suggestion I would greatly appreciate.

Resin, I notice that a lot of the purple plums look so aweful but there's only that one that is so stunning that it makes me want to have one.

I will post a pic of my poor tree later.

There's the Forest Pansy redbud...not sure how those do in Texas but it's got the purple foliage and redbuds are an understory tree. Or if it's too sunny for the redbud, you could consider one of the dark foliage cultivars of Cotinus coggygria. Not sure how they'd like the moisture though, they seem to do OK in my fairly dry garden so it may not be any happier than the plum with being in the low spot in the yard.

Forest Pansy doesn't stay dark for me, it goes greeny by half summer.
My most reliable dark foliage is the Smoke Tree, (Cotinus coggygria "Royal Purple")

Christie

Some of the dark-leaved Sambucus might be an idea too. 'Black Beauty' isn't great at holding its color here and from what I've heard it's even worse in hot humid weather than it is in hot dry weather, but 'Black Lace' has never showed the slightest trace of green (granted I've only had it a year and a half, but we had plenty of hot weather last summer). I really love my 'Black Lace', the lacy foliage reminds me of a Japanese maple but WAY more heat tolerant.

G'Day
If as you say the area is low lying then the Plum is probably one of the best for the area. I agree with your husband give it a bit longer. An ornamental tree is best pruned during or after flowering and it would not be too late to prune now. Depending on your requirements why not lop it back to about 3ft or 4ft and let it branch at that height, even 5ft if that suits you better.
Regards Brian

thanks every one. ecrane I keep looking at sambucus and seems like literature always says to zone 8. So, being in zone 9, do you grow it? I realize not all zone 9 are the same but it's certainly encouraging.

I have a forest pansy elsewhere in the garden, want something else. Mine is young and it isn't purple all the time. that's OK w/ me. Must be like loropetalum, mine isn't always purple.

brian, you sweet tree hugger, I will give it another year. But that's it! It it doesn't perk up, out it goes, lol.

I didn't realize they were only listed to zone 8...I have no trouble at all with them, but my summers on average are probably a bit cooler than yours. We will get heat waves on occasion where it gets to 110+, but we also have times where it doesn't get much above 80. And there's not much humidity and it always cools off nicely in the evenings (most of the time into the 60's) which may help as well so I have no idea if my experience with them would translate to your climate. I'd say it's worth trying if you can find one for a reasonable price. Definitely stay away from Black Beauty though--in my experience it looks really ugly most of the summer because it loses part of its dark color but not all of it, so it ends up looking this ugly brownish-greenish shade. With your humidity it might go all the way back to green which would look better! Black Lace seems to hold its color very well so I'd try that one if you can find it.

unlike you, we have hot evenings in jul/aug.

mrs colla I think I have looked at smoke tree and it is also to zone 8.

vossner, but it stood up against our hot summer so well! I see them all over here, even in hotter areas. But, there's more than heat, I forgot!
Maybe ask a nursery around you if you like it?
Christie

christie, I certainly will. do you have cool summer evenings? if you do, that might be why you grow it successfully

Vossner, yes, our evenings are cool most of the time, the odd heat spell excluded, and sometimes they are even cold!
That might make a difference.

Christie

OK, here are some pics of my pitiful little tree. I realize it's hard to see because of the ligustrum background across the street. The right side of my tree is so dried up, it doesn't leaf up (out?)

this is a pic taken from the opposite side, with the dried up side now on the left side of the pic

finally, a view of the trunk. This year it barely, and I mean barely, flowered. This is as "full" as this little tree is gonna get this year. I don't know if sick or simply puny from being a young tree. It's been 5 yrs of this look.

Something doesn't look right--it's been in the ground long enough that it should be established so if it's not leafing out like it should I suspect there's either a disease at work or there's something in its conditions that's not making it happy. I don't know enough about these to guess what's going on but hopefully someone else will have some ideas.

G'Day
If that tree was mine I'd give it a good dose of Nitrogenous fertilizer or NPK with the N being much higher than the other two also give a good drink. At the same time prune at least a third off of it and remove any dead twigs this should force the tree into some decent growth, if it doesn't then you probably have a disease problem and it might as well be removed.
Regards Brian

Golly Ecrane half a world apart and thinking along the same lines, you can almost hear the brains working.
Brian

Is it planted too deep? If the root flare is buried, that's a common cause of a tree struggling. If it was container grown it might have had soil placed over the root flair in the container. That would make the top of the soil in the container the incorrect planting depth. If it was field grown and then B&B'd very, very often soil is pushed up over the root flare when it is B&B'd. That makes the top of the root ball the incorrect planting depth. With any tree purchase today you have to locate the root flare before planting and make sure it is above ground.

Also I can't tell from the pictures but a young tree should not have to compete with grass over its roots for the first two years. Grass takes nutrients and water away from the tree and it has a difficult time getting established. It's actually a good idea to keep a 3' mulch ring around the tree ( not piled against the trunk though) for the entire life of the tree.

String trimmer and lawnmower lacerations of the trunk bark at the base are another common cause of serious tree problems. The tree can't move nutrients if the cambium has been disrupted and it starves.

So, how about a picture of the base of the tree?

thanks everyone. see? I told you it was puny.

snapple, I wasn't sure what root flare was, so I googled and found a very interesting link. Thought readers would find it informational. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.tlcfortrees.info/images/no%2520root%2520flare.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tlcfortrees.info/planting%2520depth.htm&usg=__aaIKYJ-uYLB8ccQMah3rTIK7wEA=&h=444&w=640&sz=66&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=LibGlXZF2s1FOM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwhat%2Bis%2Broot%2Bflare%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

I will post a pic of the base tomorrow.

Brian, I have never fertilized it, I think I have what you recommend and I can try that.

This message was edited Apr 4, 2009 8:04 PM

I agree,

I have a rose bush nearby planted 2 years ago but the tree was already being a problem.

Pls give me name of "non-sissy" fertilizer. I'm afraid I only have the sissy kind, lol.

When I suggested Nitrogenous fertilizer I meant something like Urea that is about 40% nitrogen but if you already had NPK why not use that and up the rate to give you the same rate as Urea. Nitrosol is another high analysis nitrogen fertilizer and as a spray on would be available sooner than the soil applied product.
I like fertilizers like Nutrog (processed chook poop) or B & B etc but they take a lot longer to become available and we want to give this tree a bit of hurry up.
Brian

Somethimg like this, http://www.sweney-kern.com/catalog.asp?prodid=580343&showprevnext=1

I don't think you'll find stuff like that in a big box store so you need to find a more commerical place or ag store. If you have a Lesco near by they would have it.

I'd hold off on fertilizing until you're certain you've ruled out any other problem(s). The rose behind it seems to be doing OK which leads me to believe that it's not a soil deficient in the basic NPK. Fertilizing an already stressed tree can absolutely hasten it's demise. According to the Us Forest Service: "This Cherry Plum is susceptible to aphids, borers, scales, mealy bugs, tent caterpillars and many others. It is not a pest-free plant." More work needs to be done to determine the cause for it's poor growth. It's also susceptible to verticillium wilt. Verticillium wilt is not treatable. While an older mature tree can sometimes "grow through" an attack of verticillium wilt younger ones usually succumb. However, since you didn't mention premature leaf yellowing and dropping I don't think this is the case.

I have places nearby that will likely have ferts you suggest. But first, go to my closet with the 1,000,000 plant potions I have accumulated. I may already have something adequate.

Snapple, you are right. All the plants in that bed are doing fantastic except Mr. Puny. Somebody had told me that purple plum is a hit or miss kinda tree, some grow to become spectacular and some don't. Also, disease prone.

snapple I hope these pics aren't too dark. I would say the tree is not planted too deeply or roots too exposed. But you tell me.

here's another one.

edited to add the thing on the left is a metal stake we put to support Mr. Puny

This message was edited Apr 5, 2009 9:03 PM

G'Day
Your tree appears to be budded onto a rootstock (the slight dogleg just above soil level indicates this). It may be too deeply planted, remove the soil from around the stock and look for any collar rot, also see if you can determine what the stock is. If Plum stock no worry but if (as is quite common) Peach stock has been used it could be more susceptible to some diseases and also waterlogging than Plum Stock.
Brian

To be certain about where the root flare is all the litter and dirt should be removed all the way around until you expose the root flare down to the first major roots. Don't worry about severing any small fibrous roots coming directly from the trunk. These, if present, would be adventitious roots that form when a tree is planted too deeply. Losing them won't make any thing worse.

Seem to be narrowing down the problem.

snapple, I have not dug around the base yet, but I haven't forgotten. I appreciate your and others' help so don't want you to think I'm not interested.

Have a nice Easter holiday. I know I'll be busy in the kitchen. Digging around a tree trunk wouldn't be a high priority here.

Vossner: Here is something else to consider. Do you know if the tree you have could possibly be the dwarf cultivar called "Purple Pony" ?

Below is a (bad) photo of my Purple Pony flowering plum. It only gets to about 10 feet tall. It's blooms are very sparse and not showy by any means, but I got it for the foliage color, not the blooms.

This one was in very poor condition when I got it. It was majorly root bound and did nothing for about three years. The branch structure was horrible and lopsided. I wanted to keep it at about 8 feet tall, so I regularly prune out all the vertical growth.

I don't give it any special care at all. It gets the usual watering of everything else. Last year it really took off and looks great.

Pruning out the vertical growth made it branch out laterally and keeps it at the desired 8' ht.

I'll take another photo of it later. The sun is in the way at the moment.

snapple, I dug about 3" at the base of my tree and still didn't run into any roots. So, obviously it was planted too deep. I cleaned the best I could to take a pic but I'm afraid you won't see anything. I am careful not to plant too deep so is it possible that it might have settled?

In any case, once I cut off the top 1/3 and all dead branches, Mr. Puny looks a lot better. I will give it another year. I don't know what I can possibly do if planted too deep, it's not like I can pull it up. I will have to cross my fingers and be patient, I guess.

thanks so much for yout input.

PS: JD it looks A LOT like your tree but I got it from a nursery that was having a 70% off sale, no name, no instructions, no nothing.

here's another, I did feel around and nothing was soft or mushy

G'Day. I'm fascinated by the on going story of poor "Old Puny" and would like to see him restored to health. If he is planted too deep, next winter you could dig him up and replant at a suitable depth. Before that however there are a few other things to check out. In your photo the trunk under the bud union looks a lot rougher than from the union up, so the stock could be Peach. If it is a couple of questions need to be addressed, first is your soil suitable for Peach if it is then is the stock one of the disease resistant ones (Nemagard, Okinawa etc) if not then you may have a Nematode problem which in bad cases will cause restricted growth or even death. This can be alleviated by maintaining high fertility in the soil by the use of organic fertilizers like animal manure. The soil can be treated with Nemacur nematicide or if this doesn't appeal to you it has been reported that Molasses can have a similar benificial effect by reducing the numbers of Nematodes. Also in the photo there appears to be a ridge just under the bud union, check that out to see if there is the tie from an old label imbedded in the tissue effectively "Ring Barking the plant". Should this be the case you will need to dig into the bark and remove the tie or the plant will eventually die. Most times if you expose a part of the tie it can be pulled free using a pair of pliers to grip it, you won't have to cut away all of the bark and with a bit of luck the wound will heal itself.
Now three cheers for Mr Puny, Hip, Hip, hooray, hooray, hooray, and may he be returned to health.
Regards Brian

It is definitely planted too deep, an all to often occurrence. The only remedy is to dig it up and replant at the proper depth. I think Brian's concern about something strangling the trunk just at the graft union is correct. It's either a piece of nylon twine left from being field dug, a label as Brina thought, or a girdling root. Girdling roots developing on trees planted too deeply are also exceedlingy common. Unfortunately this tree will never prosper if left as it is.