Germination Reports

Learning from each other, that's what this thread is all about. When you post your successes and failures (just as important), it would be great if you could include:

--- botanical name of seed
--- date planted
--- temperature(s) at which planted and germinated, if winter sowed, or any pre treatments
--- date germinated (or emerged)
--- approximate percentage of germination, if known. Age and number of seeds if relevant.
--- What zone you are sowing seed in.
--- other comments (sometimes more interesting then anything else!)

What else have I missed?



This message was edited Feb 27, 2009 5:40 PM

I don't do a lot of inside growing, but I do have these:

Impatiens namchabarwensis
Planted 27 Jan 09
68F
Emerged 9 Feb 09

Lilium 'Madam Butterfly' x Lilium - trumpet hybrid
Soak 2 Jan 09
68F
Planted 8 Jan 09
Emerged 14 Jan 09

Lilium 'Madam Butterfly' x Lilium 'White Henryi'
Soad 2 Jan 09
68F
Planted 8 Jan 09
Emerged 16 Jan 09

Lilium 'White Henryi' x Lilium 'Madam Butterfly'
Soak 2 Jan 09
68F
Planted 8 Jan 09
Emerged 18 Jan 09

Lilium 'White Henryi' x Lilium 'Red Dutch'
Soak 2 Jan 09
68F
Planted 8 Jan 09
Emerged 24 Jan 09

I thought of two more things to include in your germination report, if possible -

1) what zone you are sowing your seed in

2) # of seeds sown compared to # seeds germinated - This will be especially useful for comparing wintersown seeds to seeds sown at indoor and/or summer temps. If you only have a few seeds with which to start, it would be helpful to know which technique might make the most of your seeds.

Just a suggestion - I know this will make propagation more cumbersome.

I added percentage of germination.

Our zones are always listed under our user name at the left. Of course, if someone is growing somewhere else, it would only be logical that said person would say so.

Leftwood, sometimes folks don't put their zone in their member information so that it always shows up when they post - I wrote that just in case one of those might like to chime in here

I've never gotten lily seed to germinate...I've not heard of this soaking technique. Do you use hyrdogen peroxide like daylily or plain water? Do you change the water daily? (I do that with Arisaema seed).

All my seeds are in strat at the moment. I will start moving some to the heat next week. I did sow cyclamen and ariseama about 2 weeks ago but nary a sign yet.

I forgot I did start some iris seed already:

Iris setosa, I. hookeri, I. chrysographes, I. forrestii

Dec. 15 - stratification in damp live sphagnum inside pill bottle placed in fridge
Feb. 19 - sown at 72 F
March 5 - first germination of all 4


Sowed 45 pots today of those that don't need strat...reports should be forthcoming!

I had never heard of soaking lily seed before this year. And I questioned the validity. See this thread: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/932088/
I respect Dennis as a very knowledgeable man, and if you have been around lilies at all, you'll recognize the name of Robert Griesbach.
So this is the first time I tried it with these, and I don't plan on soaking any of my other Lilium seeds.

Do change the water daily, just like with iris seed. I use distilled water, as my other option is city water with a high pH, chlorine, etc. My seed did not get a bleach treatment, though.

Todd, I can't believe you haven't gotten Lilium seed to germinate. Obviously not high on your priorty list, and I'll bet you haven't tried too many.

Gee, I woulda soaked my Arisaema seed before I winter sowed, if only I knew . . .

Using the soaking technique, in the past I had good success with some Arisaema while others were dismal. I soak them for a week, changing the water daily, then sow them and place them in 60-70 F. They generally don't need a strat period. I sowed 4 species this year..been planted 2 weeks now and no signs....hmmmm

Here what Dr. Norman Deno says about soaking seeds in his First Supplement to the Second Edition of SEed Germination Theory and Practice (page 11):
"A time-honored procedure in growing plants from seed is to soak the seeds in water before planting. There is no question that seeds must absorb water in order to germinate, but the following facts cast much doubt on the value of soaking. First of all in using my moist paper towel technique I have not found that a preliminary soaking gave significantly faster germination. This was true even for large seeds... More alarming is the fact that many seeds die at a (sic) significant rates under water even if the water is changed every day and even if the seeds are under only an inch of water. What happens is that many seeds and particularly large seeds commence a rapid metabolism on moistening which has a large demand for oxygen. If placed under water the delivery of oxygen to the seed is inhibited, and the seeds start to die of asphyxiation...." (examples)... "Presumably soaking for a day would have some minor value for large seeds if placed in certain media that transmitted water poorly. However, growers should be aware of the potential dangers of soaking. Possibly constant aeration of the water by bubbling air through it would make soaking less hazardous, but the minor benefits of soaking do not seem to warrant much effort in this direction."

Unless I find some equally well-researched evidence to the contrary, I won't bother, LOL! I'm not one for unnecessary steps!

With Arisaema, the benefit you see may actually be due to the removal of chemical inhibitors in the fleshy outer coating of the seed by the soaking process; the chemical inhibitors are usually water soluble, but are oily in the case of Arisaema. Deno's recommendation is to rinse the seeds daily for seven days, using a bit of detergent in this case, to remove the oily coating, and hence the chemical inhibitors to germination. (Re. Dr. Norm Deno: Seed Germination Theory and Practice, pages 5 and 100).

I knew the soaking was to remove inhibitors....I expect there are other seeds where that could help too. I suppose adding hydrogen peroxide to the water would help overcome the lack of oxygen....I do that with daylily seeds...they actually germinate in the water. Next year I'll try that with the Arisaema. Not an alpine, but Mimosa seeds also germinate in water. It can't cause asphyxiation in all seeds.

Must admit, I don't soak any other seeds except cyclamen....like Arisaema, they have oily residue as well.

I'd like to find some actual scientifically-tested evidence about the effectiveness of hydrogen peroxide in seed starting (not as an anti-fungal or for any other use). Deno's only comment on H2O2 is in the second supplement re. data from commercial growers. It says that seeds of Bursera germinated only after treatment with H2O2 but that the concentrations and duration of treatment were critical.

Oxygen in H2O2 is not "free" but is bound up in the compound... unless plants can actually break the chemical bonds and separate the oxygen from the two hydrogens (which I doubt???), I'm skeptical that H2O2 in water would have a positive effect on germination by providing oxygen to counteract the potential harmful effects of soaking. Bubbling oxygen through the soak water could do that... but why would anyone bother with such complexity? (Just not soaking would remove the problem that the H2O2 is supposed to overcome.) H2O2 may have other positive effects on germination, other than supposedly providing oxygen... as I said, I'd like to find the scientific support (not anecdotal), if there is any, for what those might be.

This message was edited Mar 6, 2009 9:32 AM

Based on my own observations, daylily seeds (tetraploid hybrids) direct sown vs soaking in plain water vs. H2O2, the best germination was with H2O2. Direct sown was quite poor. Plain water a bit better..H2O2 gave nearly 100% germination. In my books, that's proof enough! I will admit I have not used H2O2 on anything else. HOW H2O2 actually encourages germination in daylily I have no idea.

Todd, if your tests were conducted with the same batch of seed (same plant, collected at the same time, and stored the same), divided into 3 parts (direct sown, water soak, H2O2 soak), then that would really be a start towards actually proving the effectiveness of H2O2 (and if the same results were repeatable, too). Have you ever considered doing that and publishing the results? It would be very interesting and helpful research. (Of course, someone would still have to figure out what was actually happening that made it effective...) I believe you have a scientific background, so I'm sure you grasp what I'm saying about ensuring that conditions are the same, in order to isolate whether a treatment is actually effective, statistically, and then, why. So much about seed germination is tied to time of collection, conditions and length of storage, light, dark, etc., that those variables may have considerable effects on the result (viz. Deno). Deno didn't seem to spend a lot of effort on hemerocallis, but he did note that the batches of hybrid seed he studied germinated under all conditions, at varying rates (i.e. different sequences of warm and cold, dry stored, fresh), so one can imagine the variability that the relative willingness of hemerocallis to germinate might introduce into the experiment... as compared to the relative simplicity of only two variables, "no germination" versus "germination". (Also, the worst germination rate noted was 50%; the second worst was 88%; the remainder were generally above 90%.) Anyway, just some musings...

This discussion is quite timely for me, as this spring I will be germinating my first Hemerocallis seed: a cross of H. altissima x H. 'Siloam Ury Winnifred'. I am surprised that seed was even produced. It seems the tall night blooming species would be so far removed from the genes ofWinnie. But then, I know diddly about daylilies. From five Winnie buds I peeled open to pollinate (then protected with foil), three of them took. Unless . . . do Hemerocallis produce apomictic seed?

-----------------------------------------

From a lehman's point of view regarding H2O2, it would seem not to be such a miraculously stable compound. As a disinfectant and an oxidzer, I would assume the molecules break into an ionic state. And, at least according Wiki, hydrogen peroxide decomposes to water, and liberates oxygen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide
2 H2O2 → 2 H2O + O2

Strangely, many vials of daylilies went moldy even in the H2O2 solution so it was as effective a disinfectant as I assumed it would....most of the seeds germinated anyway!

I do not think daylily are apomictic so you might have some interesting hybrids!

Last year I winter sowed in February Geissorhiza bracteata and G. heterostyla. Nothing.

Now on 12 Feb 09, I plant both species again from the same batch of seeds. 65F, no pretreatment. They emerged in uniformity:
G. bracteata 5 March
G. heterostyla 7 March

I did not count the seeds, but I would guess 70% or better emergence.

Isn't that interesting!

First of all I had to look up Geissorhiza...never heard of it! Would they be hardy in your neck of the woods?

I can be fairly sure they would not be winter hardy here. But if I can keep everything that has sprouted (wishful thinking), I would have plenty to test with. I sowed rather thickly since nothing came up last year. Last year when I ordered seed from NARGS, I seem to think I would always have time to store them inside somewhere for the winter. Don't know what I was thinking, LOL. I chose a few others under that assumption, too.

Well my motto has always been "I grow (plants) to learn." A beautiful garden has never been a goal for me, although it is all beautiful to me.

A couple more to report:

Allium sikkimense - NARGS seed #140
planted 14 March
emerged 27 March
68F (20C)
50% germination(approx)

Olsynium(Sisyrinchium) douglasii
water soak 1 day
planted 17 March
emerged 29 March
68F(20C)
80% germination(approx)


This message was edited Mar 30, 2009 10:02 AM

Wow, after 12 days away, I have seeds coming up all over. I'll post more details when I get more organized. However, I'm really pumped as I have great germination this year on Cremanthodium ellisii, C. helianthus, Primula firmipes, Meconopsis naupalensis and Gentiana wujaiensis...could never get these to sprout in the past. I sowed them in early Feb. and kept them in the root cellar at work (4 C) for 6 weeks then brought them into 15-20 C and up they came in 3 weeks. Now to keep them from damping off!

Forgot about this one:

Layia glandulosa
winter sowed 20 Feb
emerged 21 March, after three days of 50F and 1 day of 60F
100% germination estimate

Since then, temps have plummeted, and bobbed above and below freezing since, even in the garage. The tiny little seedlings, initially without even unfolding their cotyledons, are still just fine. Cotyledons now completely displayed, and they go outside whenever it is freezing or above, and in the garage at night.

This thread is very interesting!
This is my report. I hope you find it informative.

Calceolaria darwinii
Planted 12 Nov. (11C)
emerged 17 Dec. (8C)
80% germination.

Yesterday, I repotted them. The picture is current plant.

A slew of reports:

Agrostema githago
winter sow 27 Feb
emerge 6 April

Campanula rotundifolia Olympica
winter sow 12 Feb
emerge 19 April
Est 95%

Cerastium alpinum ssp. lanatum
winter sow 12 Feb
emerge 19 April
est. 80%

Claytonia sibirica (from Todd)
winter sow 12 Feb
emerge 8 April

Claytonia sibirica 3331 (NARGS)
winter sow 12 Feb
emerge 11 April

Cosmidium burridgeanum
winter sow 12 Feb
emerge 18 April

Dianthus monspessulanus ssp. sternbergii col. Slovenia 4206
winter sow 12 Feb
emerge 12 April
14%

Dianthus myrtinervus (seed collected 2007)
Winter sow 12 Feb
emerge 13 April
est. 95%

Dianthus myrtinervus (seed collected 2008,different source)
winter sow 12 Feb
emerge 12 April
est. 95%

Dianthus nardiformis 1033 (seed col. 2007)
winter sow 12 Feb
emerge 8 April

Digitalis ferruginea - surface sown with light
sow in pot outside 8 April
emerge 14 April
est. 100%

Digitalis ferruginea - same source,sown under surface (no light)
winter sow 27 Feb
no emergence as of 22 April

Digitalis trojana
winter sow 27 Feb
emerge 14 April
est. 80%

Epilobium ciliatum ssp. Glandulosum
winter sow 12 Feb
emerge 18 April
est. 10%

Gentiana cruciata (seed col. 2007)
winter sow 12 Feb
emerge 22 April
est 100%

Gypsophila bungeana
winter sow 20 Feb
emerge 13 April
est. 100%

Lallemantia canescens 1752 (seed collected 2007)
winter sow 20 Feb
emerge 18 April

Penstemon cyananthus 2333
winter sow 19 Feb
emerge 18 April
est. 10%

Phyteuma vagneri 2458
winter sow 19 Feb
emerge 18 April
est. 100%

Sesile gummiferum
winter sow 19 Feb
emerge 18 April

Sollya heterophylla 3341 (seed col. 2005)
winter sow 27 Feb
emerge 18 April
est. 5%

Symphyandra hofmannii
Winter sow 20 Feb
emerge 16 April
est. 100%

Verbascum nigrum (seed col. 2006)
winter sow 20 Feb
emerge 16 April
est. 95%

More today. I am amazed at how uniform the germination on these frits are!

Fritillaria collina 3276
planted 13 March 2008
emerge 23 April 2009
est. 95%

Fritillaria crassifolia ssp. kurdica 1317
planted 13 March 2008
emerge 23 April 2009
est. 75%

These frits germinated this spring, as the seed cover is attached to the growing leaf on all. At least I believe I am right in assuming that they did not germinate last fall.

Were those kept warm the full year?

OK, I'll add some... alphabetical order... sorry, I find it a little too mindnumbing to count the seeds, so my success measures are often just qualitative!

Legend: 70, 40 refer to the temperature in degrees F
L = light (seeds on top of soil), D= dark (seeds covered with thin soil layer)
GA-3 = seeds left overnight in a dish in a few drops of water with the amount of gibberellic acid that fits on the end of a toothpick dissolved in it (very little!), then sown.

Agastache pringlei
70L
Sown Feb. 22/09
First germinated March 1, lots by March 5
Est. 80%

Amorpha canescens
Scarify, 70D
Sown Feb. 22
Germ Feb. 26
Only one!

Androsace salicifolia
Sown on Feb 15, placed in 40D (coldroom)
Brought into 70 on March 21
Germ April 1
Close to 100%.

Aquilegia chaplinei
Sown Feb. 15; 40 L for 6 weeks (coldroom)
Brought into 70 March 21 - no germ after 10 days
Back in cold room, brought out April 4
Germ April 15
~70%

Anemone truliifolia
Sown Feb. 15; 40L for 6 wks
Brought into 70, March 21
Germ April 15
~50%

Arctuous rubra
Sown Feb. 15; 40L for 8 wks (coldroom)
Brought into 70 March 21
No germination by April 22; gave up on this batch!

Arenaria grandiflora
Sown Feb.15; 70D
Germ Feb. 26
Close to 100%

Arenaria tetraquetra
Sown Feb.15; 70D; very few seeds (assuming it was not just chaff)!
Germ Feb. 26
No germination by April 22; gave up on this batch!

Astragalus angustifolius
Sown Feb. 22; scarify, 70L
Lost track of germ date, but it's a relatively easy one if a bit slow.
Good germ.

Asyneuma limonifolium
Sown Feb. 15; 40L for 6 wks (coldroom)
Moved to 70 on March 21
Germination started April 1, and proceeded slowly
~70%

Besseya alpina
Sown Feb. 1; 40L for 8 wks (coldroom)
Moved to 70 on March 21
Germ started March 28, and proceeded slowly
~70%

Calylophus serrulatus
Sown Feb. 15; 70L
Germ. Feb.20 and proceeding gradually
Good germ, ~80%

Clematis pierotii
Sown Feb. 1; directions were 70L for 4 wks, then 40 for 8wks
Germination started at 70L on Feb. 8 so did not need cold period.
~80%

More to follow...

Tammy, the frits were just left outside in the shade and treated the same as pots with growing plants. In winter they were put in a covered "box" outside (again with my other potted materials.)

Awaiting the rest of your results, Alta. (You only got to the C's.)
What do you mean when you "give up on a batch"? Toss them?

I laughed when you said you only got one Amorpha canescens.
That's all I got too! But it's too recent to say that no more will come up.

Well, I gave up on those two pots because, in retrospect, I wasn't even sure if I had planted any actual Arenaria tetraquetra seeds, and the soil surface in both it and the Arctuous rubra pots were very thickly covered with algae - I don't worry about a little, but I thought a thick mat might hamper germination(??)... and heck, I need the space under the lights! (I know I should have kept them over, LOL!) I'll try Arctuous rubra again if I have any more seeds left.

Okay, where was I?

Aquilegia amaliae
Sown Feb. 22; 40L for 6 wks (coldroom)
Moved to 70 on April 5
Germ started April 15, and proceeded very slowly
~50%

Asphodeline lutea
Sown Feb. 22; 70L
Germ started April 1, very slow
Low germ rate; got only 2 plants! (I grew these a few years ago and ended up with 3 plants... obviously I don't have the trick!)

Calyptridium umbellatum
Sown Feb. 15; 70L
Start germ March 4
Slow, low germ: 4 plants in total

Clematis intricata
Sown Feb. 15; 70L
Germination started mid Feb
~80%

Dalea jamesii
Scarify; 70D
Sown Feb. 22; germ March 1
Have only ended up with 1!

Dalea ornata
70L
Sown Feb. 22; germ Feb 26
Despite the strong start, have ended up with only 3-4.

Delphinium brunonianum
70L
Sown Feb. 15; germ Feb. 25
~80%

Dianthus calocephalus
70 (didn't note whether seeds were covered or not)
Sown Feb. 22; germ Feb. 26
~75%

Dianthus nardiformis
70D
Sown Feb. 15; germ Feb. 20
~60%

Edraianthus dalmaticus
70L
Sown Feb. 15; germ March 2
Slow, low germ; have ended up with 2 plants.

Edraianthus wettsteinii
70L
Sown Feb. 15; germ March 26
slow, low germ; have ended up with 2 plants

Erigeron pinnatisectus
70L
Sown Feb. 22; germ Feb. 26
Close to 100%

Eritrichium canum v. canum
70L
Sown Feb. 15; germ Feb. 20
80-90%
These have been blooming under the lights since April 1!

Geranium dissectum
70D
Sown Feb. 15; germ Feb. 20
~80%

Geranium traversii v. elegans
70D
Sown Feb. 22; germ March 5
Slow, ~65% germ; 5 plants in total.

Helianthemum appeninum
70L
Sown Feb. 15; germ March 3
~20% germ; 1 plant

Inula rhizocephalus
70L
Sown Feb. 22; germ Feb. 26
Close to 100%


Ipomopsis rubra
70L
Sown Feb. 22; germ April 1, two by April 24
Low germ

Ligularia soldanella
70L
Sown Feb. 15; germ Feb. 20
~65%
Very slow to put out true leaves; perhaps need cold conditions after germ?

Linum viscosum
70D
Sown Feb. 15; didn't note germ date
~60%; ended up with 5 plants

Whew, made it to the "L's" this time. As crappy as my notes are, at least I made notes this year, which is a big improvement, LOL!

E blooming since April first! WOW!
And an Eritrichium too - Holy Crap!
Did you use a special medium for Eritrichium or your regular alpine seed mix?

I did have a similar experience with an easy plant: Phacelia campanularia. I kept cutting the buds off because the plant was so tiny, but they just wouldn't stop blooming.

Well, I fear it's not one of the really choice Eritrichium... more of an upright plant, apparently (at least so far, under artificial light and indoor conditions), rather than a mat or bun. I need to do more research before I make out my NARGS list! Pretty blue flowers, though!

The soil mix I used for everything is roughly 1 part potting soil, 1 part sand, 0.5 of perlite... things seem to be happy.

Agastache pringlei also has buds under the lights .. don't recall it doing this the other time I started them (though perhaps that was outside?)

Continuing...

Oxytropis megalantha
Scarify; 70L
Sown Feb. 22; germ Feb. 27
~70%

Penstemon alamoensis
GA-3; 40L for 8 weeks
Sown Feb. 22; germ March 2
~80%

Primula cusickiana
40L for 8 wks
Sown Feb. 1; moved to 70 on March 11
Got ~5 plants; typical fine seeds so not sure what %

Primula flaccida
70L
Sown Feb. 15; germ Mar. 5
A lot!

Primula parryi
40L for 6 wks
Sown Feb. 1; moved to 70 on March 11; germ start on March 27
Got 4 plants only by April 27

Rehmannia glutinosa
70D
Sown Feb. 15; germ Feb. 20
~80-90%

Salvia pachyphylla
70D; said to be slow
Sown Feb. 22; first germ Feb. 27
1 plant!

Saussurea nepalensis
40L for 6wks
Sown Feb. 15; moved to 70 March 26; strong germ by March 31
Close to 100%

Saxifraga virginiensis
70L
Sown Feb. 15; slow; good germ by April 1
Close to 100%

Scutellaria baicalensis
70L
Sown Feb.15; germ Feb. 20
~80-90%

Scutellaria resinosa
70L; said to be slow
Sown Feb.15; germ Feb. 20
~80-90%

Scutellaria tournefortii
40L for 4 wks
Sown Feb.1; moved to 70 on March 11;
~50%

Sideritis glacialis
70L
Sown Feb. 15; germ March 2
~70%

Stanleya pinnata
70L
Sown Feb. 22; germ March 3
Close to 100%

Thalictrum actaeifolium
GA-3; 70L
Sown Feb. 22; germ March 5
Got 1 plant only!

Veronica aphylla
Was going to do 70L-40-70
Sown Feb.15; germ March 5
Have only gotten 1 plant but good enough!

Viola canina
GA-3; 70L
Sown Feb. 22; germ March 3
100% and then some!

Enough for now! (There are a few more, out of alphabetical order, and the ones I chucked outside...)

We just had Josef Halda come and speak at our meeting today. He says the whole Saussurea genus is very difficult to transplant as seedlings. Apparently they have a taproot that hates disturbance. As with many of these difficult plants, he thinks that once the root becomes woody, it is more transplantable. I asked him if he would suggest waiting a year before transplanting, or what, and he said what he would do is plant the seed in a relatively large pot (like 6 inches) and grow them undisturbed. Then take cuttings, which are easy, and don't have the aversion to transplanting.

He said the same thing about Eritrichium jankae, and I would assume the genus as a whole too.

Yes, he said the same at the meeting here in April re. saussurea. (It sounds like, when he grows from seed, he generally direct sows into the place where it will grow.) When I reflect on other tap-rooted plants that are said to be essentially non-transplantable, and on all the transplanting I've done on them, with no fatalities, I'm inclined to just give it a try, LOL! If it fails, I guess I'll know why!

This message was edited May 2, 2009 2:36 PM

This message was edited May 2, 2009 2:36 PM

Another interesting thing I didn't know about him:
His greenhouse is treated almost like a laboratory (his word).
He showers before he enters, to keep algae, liverworts and mosses out. As you say, he also says they are deadly to seed propagation. Josef throw them out if the pots become infected.

Very interesting! It must take a lot of discipline to either shower several times a day(!!), or limit greenhouse visits to once per day. (When I said the pots I'd given up on, above, were covered with "algae", I should actually have said moss.)

Edit: How does he do that... ensure that algae, moss and liverworts do not enter his greenhouse? Does he sterilize his own soil? (I'm assuming that would kill the "spores"... or whatever the correct term(s) is(are)?



This message was edited May 3, 2009 7:03 PM

Good question. I would assume so.

He also says he use more clay based soils for his cosmophytes in the crevice gardens. And he is not at all averse to using fertilizer, but only fast acting (liquid form, I would assume).

I wish I could have stayed for his second presentation, "Trough Gardens Czech style", but I'm not feeling so good. Over the last month plus there's been a flu going around at work, and it finally got to me. Maybe you saw this one (the presentation, I mean)?

Fritillaria oxypetalum hybrid 1920
planted 2007
emerged 3 May 2009

Fritillaria pallidiflora 1335
planted 26 March 2008
emerged 3 May 2009

Fritillaria raddeana 1340
planted 26 March 2008
emerged 26 April 2009

Most of these 1+ year old seeds(from previous posts too) are in pots that had been taken over by algae (not moss or liverworts), although the algae is "dead" now. Hasn't seem to bother them.

For Fritillaria camschatcensis, once the seedlings do there thing for the spring and die down, moss and liverworts don't seem to hamper there emergence in future years (speaking from experience). They don't seem to be increasing much from year to year, though.