Some of the leaves on my orange jasmine don't look like the ones in pictures. The leaflets widely spaced, small and some curl upwards. Does anyone with experience with this plant know what might cause this? thank you!
Orange Jasmine question
and here is another
There are more then one cultivar of the Orange Jasmines - DG plantfiles have 2 listed: http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/b/Rutaceae/Murraya/paniculata/cultivar/0/ I'll have to compare your pics to my two plants at home.
The leaves look a bit chlorotic, and I seem to remember that curling leaves can be a symptom of some sort of nutritional deficiency (can't remember which one unfortunately) so maybe it just needs some fertilizer--something well balanced with micronutrients as well as N/P/K. The wide spacing may be due to it not getting enough light.
Glad you mentioned that...I was wondering about the coloring of the leaves.
Here's the info from Logee's, where I got it-it doesn't specify a cultivar.
http://www.logees.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R1444-2
I don't know. It gets good light and fertilizer (Algoflash or Miracle Gro Bloom Booster). Maybe I dilute the fertilizer too much for its liking, or don't fertilize often enough. I wonder if there's a particular nutrient it has a higher requirement for (like I'm pretty sure basil requires extra magnesium).
You might check the pH of the potting mix--if it's gotten on the high side then the plant can't take up things like iron very effectively and that could cause your symptoms. If the pH looks fine, I'd also check your fertilizers and see if they provide micronutrients as well as the N/P/K. Those symptoms are more indicative of a problem with the micronutrients rather than N/P/K. As far as the light--can you describe what you mean by "good light"? Even bright light indoors is usually not as bright as what it would get if it were outdoors, so even if you've got it in an area you think is bright it might still get a little leggy and stretched out.
The dynamite line of ferts includes micronutrients, I think. It's sold in HD's at least up here in Northern VA http://www.dynamiteplantfood.com/
Jasmine usually like humidity, so if indoors for winter, mist often and water well, along with your fertilizer. It should become a happy plant then!
I've grown this one out here in the land of no humidity and it did fine so high humidity isn't necessary (although it shouldn't hurt things either since it also grows well in Florida). It doesn't look to me like it's suffering from low humidity though--usually when that's the case the edges of the leaves will get brown and dried up looking and I don't see that here, the chlorosis is a sign of a nutrient deficiency and won't be helped by misting.
I have, per 2' x 4' shelf 6 4' fluorescent bulbs. The newer ones are 6500k T8 (32 watt).
The algoflash fertilizer has micronutrients. My indoors humidity is very high, I have to run a dehumidifier all the time. I water well, maybe watered too much for awhile.
Maybe I'll just need to try repotting it.
You can see some new growth with good color and then the older leaves have mineral deficiency signs. Plants will do this on their own, taking minerals from one part of the plant and having it available elsewhere.
These are citrus relatives and not real jasmines.
Check your water ph as well as the soil. If tap, you might allow it to stand x 24 hrs. You could apply some azalea fertilizer or any acid fertilizer, but Ph and micronutrients are important. A complete palm fertilizer is basically the same. Time released granules someone suggested are good. Start with small doses if using granular. Also can keep spraying foliage with water/fertilizer mix. Problem with fertilizer this time of year is making too much tender growth. I like using liquid kelp (not fish).If in humid, sunny greenhouse, then new growth's ok.
Hit the leaves with water one way or another once/week. Pull off any fruits forming (unless you want seeds-they're weeds here).
Curry leaf tree is its close cousin. Flowers scent is different. Orange blossom + little musty=Orange jasmine; Musty=curryleaf.
I use curryleaf in cooking a lot (new growth best). Takes alcohol hand soap to remove odor from hands.
i've always found Murraya to be heavy feeders. i use palm fertilizer as kal suggested. it is really the only granular feed i've found that contains all the micro's and still is affordable. once established, it is drought tolerant but likes a good soaking once a week here in the summer months if potted.
this shot is from my second story porch in the keys. had to leave it behind when i moved. i have another now but not nearly so big yet.
The small of orange blossoms and acacias are about my favorite scents in the world! Oh to have a little bit of that heaven here in the house in the winter!
So, they like an acid fertilizer? As far as palm fertilizer, none of that in my neighborhood! Anybody want to sell me a little bit of theirs?
I agree that there are nutritional issues at play (you have classic intraveinal chlorosis), and perhaps insect as well. The problem with finding good fertilizers is that you will seldom find them in big box stores and if you get used to ordering them online you will find much better products. For this plant, your pH should not be lower than 4.5 and not higher than 7.0. Acid loving fertilizers are great as long as they are complete, and you may or may not be able to find a liquid
"chelated palm nutritional" in the box stores on the inside of the store shelves in a brown bottle.
You can give this guy a foliar feed with that palm nutritional if you find it for now- as well as a basic soap or oil insecticide wash. Calcium deficiency may be at playin the leaf curling, but the intraveinal chlorosis (usually iron) makes me suspect that is less likely than a small thrips or mite.
Keep this guy going until your last freeze is gone in order to enjoy it's sweet heavy scent again. ~F4F
Thank you. Yes, I've been fighting thrips. You think that they might be causing the chlorosis and leaf curling then?
The leaf curling certainly. The chlorosis possibly. Do you happen to know if it is Chili thrips?
I don't know. You don't happen to have a link to a picture of them, do you?
Maybe. They describe the adult as being light brown, but in one of the pictures (as on my plants), they look white. At some stage of their life they are black when seen against a white background, but on top of water they look like metal slivers. I guess it would be the eggs that were a pale green translucent color.
The main identifier of Chili thrips is that they are a very small thrips- as small as some spider mites. They are just plain hard to see in general. Thrips are also hard to identify by color- there are so many species that are the same color. Sometimes the host plant or plant parts are more helpful. The same is with the damage. Some thrips cause chlorosis- some just cause deformed leaves or flowers. Usually if you are seeing "white" thrips that is actually an exoseloton- outer layer shed as young insects become adult insects. The different colors may indicate more than one insect, or just the refraction of light off the water. Typically thrips eggs are inserted into leaf tissue or into the soil, so most thrips eggs are not observed on the leaf surface.
Darn-I thought those exoskeletons reminded me of the ones I'd just learned, a few weeks ago, were from aphids. They float on the slightest air current. So, the infinitesimal slivers were actually the thrips.
A lot of the damage looked familiar-the leaf margins being affected (parsley, basil, cilantro, dill and lemon balm), stems and veins (scented geraniums), etc. Not much deformity of leaves though. And, curiously, this one doesn't leave feces on everything. That was one of the things, initially, that made me doubt what it was.
It's hard to say, based on plants attacked, because I don't currently have the plants they listed. I'm still using neem-regularly from now on-but I hit everything with pyrethrin yesterday, because the population had really exploded.
You could have aphids, too! That was one thing I was thinking, but got swept into describing thrips. You may have more than one insect.
The more you are describing your symptoms across multiple plant types, the more it sounds like classic progressed or aggrevated magnesium deficiency to me. Looking back on your choice of Miracle
Grow brand that could be related.
I did have a few aphids and managed to get rid of them. A plant with a few actually got knocked over onto my jasmine & sure enough, the aphids migrated. But, I'm thinking that was after the leaf curling.
I had finally decided the basil might have a magnesium deficiency, so I got miracle gro for tomatoes and am giving them that. It's too early to tell if it's helping. What I had been using, for months, was Algo Flash. It looks like maybe they don't make it anymore, but I'm not sure why.
There is very little magnesium in Miracle Grow. I would use 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of epsom salts as a foliar spray and 1tsp. per gallon soil drench.
F4F would a magnesium deficiency cause Jasmines leaves to appear splotchy (discolorations)? Not sure how to describe it...should take a pic. It's my Molle that's not looking in picture perfect health. If epsom salts would help I'm all on it!
Miracle-Gro 'Tomato Plant Food' is 18-18-21 and Magnesium .50 (%), Copper .05, Iron .10, Maganese .05 & Zinc .05. I'm not sure how it compares to Epsom Salts.
Greenthumb- From the standpoint of Nitrogen alone in the analysis, your Magnesium component is 1/36. Epsom salts, on the other hand, IS Magnesium Sulfate.
Chantell- typically magnesium deficiency is expressed as a chlorosis that is nearly a ring of yellowing around the outside edge of the leaf. However, there are exceptions. One thing that comes to mind is that Magnesium is the center ion of the chlorophyll molecule.
f4f-thank you so much for all your knowledgeable help!!
;-)
F4F - hope ya don't mind providing another diagnosis...I have 2 plants with "suspect" colored leaves...first the J. Molle
Then the Tabernaemontana-double-flore plena
Good news first, or bad news? Hmmmm. I actually drug DH over to confirm my first thoughts..... Ok, here goes:
J. molle. In a Dmail, you mentioned you've had this plant awhile and it's kind of always done that. Based on our best guess from the pictures, you likely have a virus, infectious chlorosis, or something along those lines. If I get a chance tomorrow (when he's in his "library"), I'll remind DH to look up what commonly affects that species if that information is available. That may affect what you decide to do with the plant. Keeping a plant around that has a virus that may be spread to certain other plant types is not a great idea. However, if it is infectious chlorosis, some jasmines (like J. nitidum) get infectious chlorosis, and it's not as bad as it sounds! It spreads to just a handful of plants and it doesn't really overwhelm or kill the J. nitidum. It sort of comes and goes and can't be treated, but isn't the end of the world either. You can, of course, test for these things, but before you do that you could probably buy the plant 10 times over again.
T.-d-f-plena. You said in a Dmail to me that only the older leaves are doing this and that you've only had the plant a few weeks. Although factors like wind, pH and drought stress can affect Tabernaemontana, I don't that is a factor here. Although both of us are new to the fancy fragrant ones, I can say this about Tabernaemontana.........my divaricata (and also, but less so pinwheel jasmine) yellow and dump leaves in the winter. The pattern of yellowing in the picture supports that. With no other information, I would call that "senescence" of an older leaf, which in other words would be "it was it's time to go." The whole leaf went yellow- perhaps gradually, perhaps all at once. Now, sudden yellowing can also indicate drought stress and some other things, but I doubt that is a factor here. One other thing- picture shows a couple of very small bumps which may or may not be a scale, but scales tend to have a different pattern before the leaf goes and there don't seem to be many of whatever they are. Long story short, my bet would be that this guy leafs out in the spring and will be just fine.
I have a Brug that has a virus. It had funny leaves since the day I got it, and I hoped it was mites or something else. But as all the new leaves had the same pattern, I knew it was virus. I still haven't had the heart to yank it out, but I need to. I should think of all my other bruggies. Maybe we can start a support group for fragrant gardener whose plants get viruses...........
I feel like the paranoid first time mother with some of these...I never use to worry so much....but I LOVE my jasmines. And I've wanted that double-flore & Molle ever since I heard someone describe it's fragrance...so now I'm hovering over the both of them...horrible, isn't it?!? Thank you F4F and tell DH the same...I promise not to continue to bug you with "patients" and new illnesses to diagnose...LOL. I think the support group idea sounds like a wonderful one!!! My dang bruggies have mites of some sort already...ugh!!!! Gonna be "Neeming" tomorrow again...grrrrr!!!
Well, it's not such a bother because I enjoy it, and unfortunately these maladies aren't exactly "new" to us. What's a bother is when I get questioned. Sure, me/we are giving estimated guesses when we are looking at photographic evidence, but it's about the best estimated guess you can get! Hang on to the jasmine for a while, and take more pictures and continue to update me, and let's see what else DH may come up with tomorrow. The good thing is that I would presume that while you are overwintering you probably (hopefully) don't have any thrips or aphids. Other insects can also spread diseases, but those 2 are the biggies when it comes to viruses.
Have fun with the neem. Call me crazy, but I always rather liked the smell of it. A bit like onion soup........
UGH...wish I shared your enjoyment of the scent...don't like it says Sam I Am...hopefully the buggies won't either. The nasties (mites, I think w/their webbing - happy to photography them as well if you like) seem to only be downstairs - looks like they started on the Brugs and might be working their way to those around them...feels like I just sprayed the dang things a week...maybe 2 ago. The plants above are in my bdrim and bathroom so they're away from the bugs on main level. Photos I can do...you tell me what helps you all the most and I'll photograph it - closer shots - further away shots...more lighting...just say the word and it's done. Believe me when it's something I'm ignorant about I don't question...if on the other hand it's something I have some knowledge about (i.e. large breed dogs - some photography) then I'll give my opinion - when asked for...and admittedly sometime even when not asked for. LOL
You're too much! What's your opinion of Catahoula Leopard Hounds? (Old picture) Jed is a hoot- lots of energy. Major jumper. Great frisbee dog.
BTW, if we are talking tetranychid spider mites (the web spinning kind like you mentioned), the lifecycle under "ideal" conditions is 3 days, which means spray, well, often. I know growers who have wrestled with spider mites their whole life. I saw an article today contradicting years of "documented" traditional best spray application. Oh well. All I can say is that I have a personal story in my professional career in which I handily killed the bastards-for good. Coverage is key. When it has webbing, take the plant outside and take a hose to it every which way. THEN, take it aside and do the nasty with the neem. And if you are going to spray- spray the heck out of it. Topside, underside, inside, outside, let it drip! You might just get away with one really good effective spray if you get the best possible coverage.
As far as the pictures when you are documenting plant maladies, take close ups, overall- all of it is useful. Pretend it's your grandbaby! Seriously, you and Green76thumb did awesome. ~ F4F
F4F-I have wondered, sometimes so many people weigh in with differing opinions, how can you tell who has experience or training and really knows what they're talking about? I have seen forums, for other things, where it identifies people who are their forum experts, near their name when they post. I had actually pondered this before. It would help me, to have a way to see whether someone has a degree related to plants, or job experience, or just a long time growing for hobby. Or to know that DG gives them a high rating on their advice . . . or something.
I know if I get advice that contradicts other things I have learned or read, I'm going to question it. With all the info out there, I think sometimes an ignorant person may have read and seen a lot and just be confused. I think a lot of us are certainly ignorant as to whose advice is best trusted. It takes awhile in a 'conversation' for it to become evident. Do you have any suggestions on this?
I think as you spend more time here you start to see who really knows things and who doesn't, but sometimes you will need to wait and see how things play out in the conversation. There are enough knowledgeable people around that if there's an question where the answer is pretty black and white, you'll usually have several people jump in and correct the person who posted the incorrect info, which makes it pretty obvious what's right and what's not. Not all gardening questions are that black and white though, especially when it comes to things like diagnosing pest & disease issues from a picture, so you could very well end up in a situation where there are a few equally knowledgeable people who have different opinions. Also for many problems in gardening there are multiple solutions, so often you might have people telling you different things but they're all potential solutions to your problem so nobody's really wrong.
I'd recommend also following up with some research of your own on any advice that you get--once you've gotten some suggestions from a few different people it's very easy to do a little followup research on your own and see what's out there on the internet. There's lots of bogus information out there too, but if you scan through the search results and focus on ones that are from university websites and other reputable sources you can get a pretty good sense for things.
Mercy...F4F - you gotta check out how much your pup looks like one of mine!!! http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/922501/ the 1st and 2nd photo. I will admit to having less knowledge about the hounds then many in the working class - although I had a neighbor who had a female Catahoula Leopard Hound and she was a wonderful family pet!!!
Greenthumb - not sure F4F's thoughts on this - can only share my own opinion. Some folks may not want to share quite that much info or be "graded" on their expertise (or lack of)...we're all here kinda like a family to help each other out. There are many things that we share with certain individuals via dmails, for example, that we might not share in open forum for many reasons. Imagine how many folks access these forums on a daily basis. I completely understand why you'd ask though - but as ecrane3 put so well it's up to us ultimately to verify information being given if we're not sure about it.
This message was edited Dec 5, 2008 11:12 AM